Running a website remotely from another state

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As the title implies, my question here is about how feasible it is to run a website from another state that has more favorable tax status so as to be able, for example, to have a profitable Amazon Book store.

This is done for a variety of other things such as "incorporation", etc. So it occurs to me that if the sites server, as well as the business entity itself, is incorporated in another state, then there should be no issues legal or otherwise.

But, not being a tax lawyer I was wondering if anyone else has explored these issues or is even pursuing these ideas? I know such things as poker/gambling sites do this sort of thing, but they are somewhat on the "outer fringes" and I was wondering if there are more solid business models that would work around internet tax strangulation laws (such as the one that exists in my state of NC).

-DTM.
#remotely #running #state #website
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

    As the title implies, my question here is about how feasible it is to run a website from another state that has more favorable tax status
    I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in business for almost 25 years.

    The current legal consensus (which Texas is trying to change, since they house a disproportionate number of web servers for out-of-state entities) is that the location of the physical web server is irrelevant. What matters is the address on the domain's WHOIS record.

    The answer to your problem is a Delaware corporation. Delaware has no state sales tax, and very favourable corporate tax laws. You can incorporate your company in Delaware over the internet within 24 hours for about $200.

    You have to jump through some hoops when you run a corporation. Once you incorporate your company, open a corporate bank account and "invest" a quantity of money in it by transferring some of your own funds into the new account and recording a stock sale to yourself. Then "sell" all your domains to the new corporation, setting up a new account at your registrar and transferring money back from the company (or trading yourself more stock for them), then pushing the domains over to the corporate account.

    These procedures seem like a silly waste of time, but if the government comes banging on your door saying you are just using your company to dodge tax liability, you need to show a clear and distinct paper trail that shows every single thing you gave to the corporation was paid for by the corporation, and every single thing you got from the corporation was compensation for specific services rendered on its behalf.

    It is all this "silliness" that makes it a company and not a scam. Think of it like "showing your work" on a math test. You have to record a bank transaction for everywhere the money is supposed to go, not just net out the end result and shuffle the money as little as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

    As the title implies, my question here is about how feasible it is to run a website from another state that has more favorable tax status so as to be able, for example, to have a profitable Amazon Book store.

    This is done for a variety of other things such as "incorporation", etc. So it occurs to me that if the sites server, as well as the business entity itself, is incorporated in another state, then there should be no issues legal or otherwise.

    But, not being a tax lawyer I was wondering if anyone else has explored these issues or is even pursuing these ideas? I know such things as poker/gambling sites do this sort of thing, but they are somewhat on the "outer fringes" and I was wondering if there are more solid business models that would work around internet tax strangulation laws (such as the one that exists in my state of NC).

    -DTM.
    What difference would it make? Unless it is run as a corporation, US law dictates that *****ANY***** legal residents must pay applicable taxes. I believe you are considered a resident after 90 days. It doesn't matter if you are from the deepest regions of africa, and they don't care WHERE the money comes from. ALSO, the *****state(s)***** that consider you a resident are allowed to, and often do, charge taxes. And YOU, as a resident of the state, are expected to pay those taxes. Again, I think it is 90 days with most, but obviously that isn't ALWAYS the case.

    NOW, if you are a corporation, it is based according to where the corporation is, physical presence, and the laws of those states. Nevada, for example, doesn't treat you as if you have a presence there unless you REALLY do! California will charge you based on where you have the presence in california, and California will NOT allow you to run a business office there as a corporation unless you are registered in California as a "foreign" corporation.

    A Nevada corporation is considered a foreign corporation EVEN though both states are in the US and even BORDER one another. By foreign, they mean outside of the STATE!

    Nobody ******ANYWHERE****** and obviously not amazon, cares where your server is.

    And WHAT are you trying to do? You DO realize what affiliates are, right? If you accept the money from YOUR corporation as a resident of say california, then you could have to pay tax on it as if amazon had paid you. So either way you could lose, EVEN if you got away with it.

    One way you COULD get away with it is if amazon paid your corporation and YOUR state stayed out of it, and the CORPORATION paid you as an employee, or used the money elsewhere for CORPORATE purposes. If you use it for personal purposes it "pierces the corporate veil". Piercing the corporate veil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Bear in mind that california, just as an example, thought of this. That foreign registry allows them to dictate things THERE also!

    I'm NOT a lawyer or accountant, BUT:
    1. I DID have a california proprietorship, with sales permit.
    2. I DID have a nevada corporation.
    3. I DID lose my CA sales permit and researched it heavily BEFORE the internet was opened, and before the WWW. They do NOT make it easy! CA simply told me I lost my sales permit and couldn't get a new one due to the change in my business. I had to call over a half dozen people and spend hours on the phone before I got the info.
    4. Nevada made a STUPID mistake on my paperwork and a nice woman finally figured it out and she and I had a nice LONG talk about the way nevada does business right down to sales tax, presence, and corporations. She was the person that does all that paper work and seemed WELL versed on the applicable rules.
    5. I travel a LOT on business and once had to pay income tax to SIX states! THAT is why the tax programs allow you to and SOME states even have reciprocal agreements.

    So if anyone tells you different from what I have here, they are probably wrong.

    BTW nevada, like delaware has NO income tax. But NEVADA some timee ago started requiring corporations to have business licenses. You have to pay tax THERE! Delaware might be the same or become the same.

    One more thing. Unless accountants have dealt with the state you are in, and the state the corporation is in, understand the relationships, and you tell them the truth, they will NOT be able to accurately answer your questions. Same for a lawyer. In fact, a lawyer might ask you to consult your accountant, and THAT is why I say IF so many times, and referred to california and nevada. YOUR state may vary! BTW business, at least in nevada, is based on a FIXED business office, or a B&M store. And even a nevada corporation is allowed to do business with NO sales permit, as long as they don't have a presence. I say that because THAT is the mistake someone made once, and I went along with it. BTW servers DO NOT COUNT!

    As a nevada corporation, for a time, I had a virtual office I could operate from. The corporations mail was even sent there. Since it was NOT the corporations place of business, and the offices weren't dedicated accordingly, IT didn't count as a presence EITHER!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Many anti-avoidance tax laws are down to where control is exercised from.

    I don't know about US law but I know that this is the case for many other countries.
    Yeah, for something like this, the payment, since it would be business to business, is taxed based on the state you are incorporated in. Like I said, the foreign registration MAY throw a wrench into that. If you are paid as an employee, you are expected to pay the applicable FEDERAL and STATE taxes. And the taxes are based on the EMPLOYEE's current residence.

    State sales taxes, on mail order goods, have been required by MANY states for a LONG time! But the BUYER is expected to report them on their tax return. I DOUBT many take the time to check every receipt, etc... They didn't even TELL anyone, they just put it on the tax return! Well, NOW they are doing this new tax on affiliate income. 8-( It USED to be what the RECIPIENT had to
    report, match up the 1099, and PAY, but now amazon has to.

    BTW regarding the corporation, what happens if rules change THERE also.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author David McKee
      I am not adverse to paying the taxes, but in the case of Amazon, I can't even sell the products because they won't do business in states that charge these taxes - that is the issue.

      So it sounds like if I was willing to pay the tax and Had a corporation based in another state that had no taxes against Amazon, that I could do business with them, and then pay the applicable state tax in my state.

      But again, this is all starting to sound s bit more complicated then I had hoped.

      -DTM
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

        I am not adverse to paying the taxes, but in the case of Amazon, I can't even sell the products because they won't do business in states that charge these taxes - that is the issue.

        So it sounds like if I was willing to pay the tax and Had a corporation based in another state that had no taxes against Amazon, that I could do business with them, and then pay the applicable state tax in my state.

        But again, this is all starting to sound s bit more complicated then I had hoped.

        -DTM
        The tax laws in the US are ******VERY****** complicated! And there could be THOUSANDS of tax rates for sales tax, and the idea of WHAT is taxed VARIES! As I understand it Amazon is NOT getting rid of affiliates to get rid of affiliates, or lower corporate tax, etc... Let's say that they allowed california affiliates to advertise. Various states NOW consider that a PRESENCE! And THAT subjects them to like 6 new taxes, IIRC and assuming it hasn't changed. And they are applied in different cases! You see, being subject to state sales taxes, in california, does NOT subject you to STATE sales taxes, it subjects you to COUNTY sales taxes which INCLUDE state sales taxes. Thousand oaks, san jose, and LA can EACH have a DIFFERENT tax rate, etc...

        That means customers have to pay more, they have to complicate things(A new sales system, register in the state, get a sales tax permit, collect and pay sales tax, etc...), and they LOSE AN ADVANTAGE!(Some buy mail order, etc.. to SAVE sales tax)

        THAT is why amazon is doing this. They were one of the first to have affiliate programs, and they are certainly NOT doing this to make you angry. You have a beef? Complain to the STATE!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I am not adverse to paying the taxes, but in the case of Amazon, I can't even sell the products because they won't do business in states that charge these taxes - that is the issue.
          If you are making good money with Amazon - incorporate in another state.

          The potential for consequences from your state are greater than a simple ban by Amazon.

          Talk to a lawyer before doing anything. He can advise you on incorporating and on how to handle the tax issue if you take that route. Legal advice on a forum is totally worthless - we have opinions and that's all. It won't cost a fortune to have a one hour consultation with an attorney who is experienced in business and taxes.

          Trying to give the appearance of being in another state and selling on Amazon where taxes are not charged - could open the door to charges of tax fraud. That would be a real concern for me.

          I know you say you are willing to pay the taxes - but that may not be enough after the fact. "Intent" is a big word in applying the law - and though you know the intent is to continue with Amazon, the state may not see it that way.

          This isn't a subject to decide based on forum comments - get expert advice, please.

          kay
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          • Profile picture of the author David McKee
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            If you are making good money with Amazon - incorporate in another state.

            The potential for consequences from your state are greater than a simple ban by Amazon.

            Talk to a lawyer before doing anything. He can advise you on incorporating and on how to handle the tax issue if you take that route. Legal advice on a forum is totally worthless - we have opinions and that's all. It won't cost a fortune to have a one hour consultation with an attorney who is experienced in business and taxes.

            Trying to give the appearance of being in another state and selling on Amazon where taxes are not charged - could open the door to charges of tax fraud. That would be a real concern for me.

            I know you say you are willing to pay the taxes - but that may not be enough after the fact. "Intent" is a big word in applying the law - and though you know the intent is to continue with Amazon, the state may not see it that way.

            This isn't a subject to decide based on forum comments - get expert advice, please.

            kay
            Kay, of course I would get expert advice - but before I do that, I wanted to know if anyone here was already doing this with any success. Obviously if they have not, or have not had success, that would weigh heavily on if I even want to pursue it any further or do other things.

            Frankly I have a good business, but I have a need for some good books and would like to sell them as well - and it is looking like Amazon is not an option.

            Thanks for all of your advice!

            -DTM.
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            • Profile picture of the author tpw
              Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

              Kay, of course I would get expert advice - but before I do that, I wanted to know if anyone here was already doing this with any success.

              I know someone doing it successfully, but it was a reverse deal. They incorporated in Florida when they lived in Florida.

              When they moved to a state on Amazon's block list, they maintained the Florida Corporation.

              As an employee of the corporation, the thing looks like it might be safe.

              But don't make the mistake of assuming that since it has been done successfully it will keep your butt out of trouble.

              Attorney up.
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        • Profile picture of the author David McKee
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          The tax laws in the US are ******VERY****** complicated! And there could be THOUSANDS of tax rates for sales tax, and the idea of WHAT is taxed VARIES! As I understand it Amazon is NOT getting rid of affiliates to get rid of affiliates, or lower corporate tax, etc... Let's say that they allowed california affiliates to advertise. Various states NOW consider that a PRESENCE! And THAT subjects them to like 6 new taxes, IIRC and assuming it hasn't changed. And they are applied in different cases! You see, being subject to state sales taxes, in california, does NOT subject you to STATE sales taxes, it subjects you to COUNTY sales taxes which INCLUDE state sales taxes. Thousand oaks, san jose, and LA can EACH have a DIFFERENT tax rate, etc...

          That means customers have to pay more, they have to complicate things(A new sales system, register in the state, get a sales tax permit, collect and pay sales tax, etc...), and they LOSE AN ADVANTAGE!(Some buy mail order, etc.. to SAVE sales tax)

          THAT is why amazon is doing this. They were one of the first to have affiliate programs, and they are certainly NOT doing this to make you angry. You have a beef? Complain to the STATE!

          Steve
          Steve, I don't have a beef with Amazon - Frankly our government is completely out of control and taxes are the drug they use to medicate themselves - don't get me wrong, I would rather not pay taxes at all, they are unnecessary (income tax that is) and were not even part of our country until about 120 years ago, and should never have been allowed, but now it will take a collapse of our country (not too far off it would seem) before anyone will take that seriously. When we start burning our currency for warmth, well... anyway I digress.

          I just wanted to know if it was possible, I am assuming now, that pretty much not.

          -DTM
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by David McKee View Post

            Steve, I don't have a beef with Amazon - Frankly our government is completely out of control and taxes are the drug they use to medicate themselves - don't get me wrong, I would rather not pay taxes at all, they are unnecessary (income tax that is) and were not even part of our country until about 120 years ago, and should never have been allowed, but now it will take a collapse of our country (not too far off it would seem) before anyone will take that seriously. When we start burning our currency for warmth, well...

            You're right there! I wish I could say more. When I think of all the tens of thousands, or MORE that have to be paid to handle this garbage. IMAGINE if you had to collect tax REGARDLESS of presence.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Dave Rodman
              Banned
              Jerry West did this and posted a video about it, although it wasn't working for me when I tried it. Maybe you'll have better luck.

              Amazon Affiliate Tax Solution

              There was an attorney out there that tried to debunk this strategy, but I think that's hogwash. The attorney tried to tell Jerry he was committing tax evasion. In my mind, this has always been just about getting around Amazon's rules for affiliates. If you incorporate as an S-Corp, you pay the tax on the income on your personal tax return (Home state). So it's not tax evasion, you're still paying the taxes owed. What is the state going to do? Come after you because Amazon didn't collect taxes?

              He also talked about potentially opening yourself up for liability if you co-mingle amazon funds with other business funds. That can be pretty simple..don't co-mingle funds. Take amazon money in, pay your related expenses, and pay your taxes at year end. Simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    Before you incorporate in any state, check the ongoing cost of maintaining the corporation and make sure it's less than your forecasted earnings from Amazon.

    I agree with CDarklock - a Deleware corporation seems like the best alternative, but I count incorporating my prior business as one of the biggest mistakes I've made. Make sure the benefits outweigh the costs.
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