What are and aren't ethical practices on WF

I'm not anything like an expert on this, so take these comments with a grain or three of salt. But still, it's worth asking a lawyer about.

With the recent downgrading of a number of large sites in the SERPs due to having been caught at iffy backlinking tactics, the company might have to include a warning to potential investors of the problems that could come up if they face the same issue. That, by itself, might be an excellent reason for them to avoid those techniques.


Paul

Good point. I recall the recent article about JC Penny. They were blatantly using the useless content farms.

I guess it's a good time to ask, are there effective techniques that can boost your SERP that aren't (as) questionable?

How about you just focus on building links that are intended to drive traffic? By that, I mean...

Write press releases about the company and submit them to the proper outlets. (newspapers)

Guest write articles on sites within that niche. (magazines)

Syndicate articles written about the product/company to article directories (pamphlets/flyers)

Add the website to popular link directories (phone books)

Contact webmasters in the niche and discuss the product with them, they may just want to mention it to their visitors. (word of mouth?)

Create some promotional material that you can provide sites within your niche as well. Many times, webmasters don't bother 'no-following' their promotional links and banners (not that it matters in the scope of things). (signage/displays)

Go to the most prominent forum in the niche and ACTUALLY provide real value while promoting in a signature. (conventions/seminars)

You definitely need a linkedin account, facebook account, and twitter account for social media. (talk radio/news)

Create videos about the product or business, and post them to the proper sites... (television)

I completely understand the hesitancy in building link wheels, and building links for the sake of building links, but the suggestions above is how you properly market a product/site and get links in the process. This is what the internet thrives off of, and how marketing on the internet takes place. Remove the focus off of building links, and begin focusing on promoting the company - with that philosophy links become a pleasant bonus.

Providing these types of resources for your potential customers to find is ethical in online business. Each has its own real world match in offline business. There is no 'gaming the system' in the above tactics, and each is intended to find your audience online (or allowing your audience to find you), while becoming more attractive to Google's algorithms.

In essence, in this particular scenario, forget about Google, and concentrate on online promotion. They'll get their 'ethical' ranking eventually (if proper SEO is done in other areas), but during the lull, they should take full advantage of all online marketing strategies.

In my opinion there is no unethical practices in the examples above, and all of those strategies will accumulate backlinks. In turn, because they are growing their presence online, others will find them and link to them - that is, if they are worth linking to, or their content is worth linking to.

There are a lot more reasons than just SEO traffic for poor sales. You haven't mentioned details like how many unique visitors per day and their current conversion rate. Has the sales copy been tested? Did someone write it who had a clue about writing sales copy?

Another thing that really needs to be address is exactly what are these "ethical issues"? It sounds like someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

And has the research been done to find out if it is a product that anyone wants?

Marvin

Complex issue, for sure.

I blogged about it almost exactly 3 years ago - in a post
provocatively titled "Is Search Engine Optimization Ethical?"

The discussion in the comments is pretty instructive - and
illustrative of how people tend to view 'business ethics'
broadly.

All success
Dr.Mani

Hey Honed Dr Mani is the MAN! check out his sites and advice. He helps poor kids in India get important operations through his sales online. << he matters

Well, in a way they are correct.

I'm not sure if I'd necessarily consider artificial backlinking unethical but it is what it is, artificial manipulation of search engines to improve results.

Search engine polices on this are Don't do it. Based on that, any artificial backlinking is wrong in the eyes of search engines and thus unethical in their opinion.

Will these practices hurt a site ?

Pick a side, results vary. You have some people who swear by it and have reaped the benefits while others claim it has destroyed their sites and is the root of all evil.

What will happen in the future? Nobody knows.

Is an investor going to look at the search engine rankings of a site, check out its backlinks and make a decisions based on what he finds? I dunno, sounds like paranoia to me.

You tell me.

If I say running senuke 24 hours a day is completely justified and somebody else claims it's spamming, who is right and who is wrong?

If I leave a comment on a blog, even if it's well thought out and on topic but I'm only leaving the comment because I want a backlink, is that right or wrong? It is attempting to artificially manipulate search engine results to swing in my favor.

What about spinning an article 25 times and submitting it to all of the article directories?

Is capital punishment right or wrong? What about abortion? Gay Marriage? Ambercrombie selling sexy push-up bikini's to 7 year olds? Manifest Destiny was very popular at one point in time but I don't think the Native Americans were very cool with the idea.

So, you're not going to get a clear answer because everybody has their own opinion of right and wrong.

There are a couple of 100 page threads on the topic that are quite entertaining.

If they don't want to build any artificial backlinks that is their choice and what google wants. In return, google will return the favor by ranking them very very low, or not at all. They will become martyrs and be rewarded in google heaven.

I should really be working and not waxing poetic on ethics and morality.

Darn Warrior Forum has sidetracked me again!

Christopher,

Thanks for your post. I was planning on some link building for them, but mostly on the social side as that would be more appropriate. If they got some momentum, they could move up naturally like they want, but if they don't move up in SERP, then there's no momentum. Another issue is they "know SEO", which is what they say they did 5+ years ago. Since I have recently learned it, I don't know that much in their eyes.

As to the investor question, that's one I just couldn't touch with them. Paranoia, yeah, something like that. I have to remember that it's their site, not mine.

It's just disappointing that they believe some things are hindering their success. I had to have them tell me that building backlings yourself is unethical and wrong, and yet that is what drives relevancy in rankings. Matt Cutts talks about backlinking all the time and he has videos out that give the tops 5 ways to build backlinks. And they are telling me that building backlinks of any kind are wrong? I'm frustrated to say the least.

Thanks again to you all for the discussion. I get that people have differing views and some view are in the extreme. I just needed to get a reality check.

I discussed blogging in *relevant* places with topical and/or helpful information, but that too was a "no", as was just posting with a signature that linked to their site. I did show a case where it was 100% completely appropriate to respond with "Hey! Our product actually does that!". They said while posting a response would actually help and match what we offer with what they need, they felt that still was "not appropriate". I think they are going to let their overdeveloped sense of ethics kill any chance of success. But I hope not.

No, I am helping, not a paying gig, so happy to walk away.

You're actually correct, it is just that. They don't want to change the site much, so it's not really optimized on page and they don't want to use the SEM that Matt Cutts himself advises, so I have to bow out.

I want to see them succeed, but that outcome doesn't help or hurt me.

If you do or say something that gets you banned.... then that is one of the many things that you should have not said/typed.
Don't hurt feelings or say anything that may upset a WF moderator, too.

The best advice ever given by Google has been ignored by the vast majority of marketers online.

That advice is:
So long as you put the needs of consumers ahead of what the search engines are looking for, then you are good.

So do article marketing for people who are reading your content.

Do link building so that prospects can find you.

Buy advertising so humans can find you.

Create press releases for publishers and consumers.

Do for the consumer, and the search engines will appreciate you.

Do for the search engines, and no one will appreciate you.

When I started this thread I was thinking, am what I am offering to do wrong? unethical?

Now I see more clearly and I'm better for the experience. So that's the positive for me.

I know there are many things that are good practices, but I won't lie. I think that buying some linking services are going to be necessary in many circumstances. This is business, this isn't a life lesson. Sometimes results matter most.

But wouldn't you have to agree that content and niche have a large role to play in this?

I don't know what your website was but if that approach was taken with an Amazon Review site, it would never be found and have very little traffic.

However, if it were an business related site and you were active on a business forum with a link in your signature to your site, traffic would slowly grow based on your signature and reputation.

Every website is a unique case, what works for one may not work for another.