PayPal Wins Round One of Lawsuit

by E. Brian Rose

Posted: 14 years ago 38 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

Despite precedents set before my case, a Mississippi judge ruled that the venue clause in the PayPal user agreement is not unconscionable and ordered me to pay PayPal $1,000 for their troubles.

Background is here: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...st-paypal.html

Update is here: My PayPal Lawsuit – Round One Goes to Them | Internet Marketing Strategies by E Brian Rose

Today, we will decide whether to appeal the ruling to the Mississippi Supreme Court or bite the bullet and file in Nebraska. Either way, this is not finished. I look forward to the day that PayPal will have to answer in public documents how many members have had their accounts frozen, how much money is being held in seized funds, how much interest they are making annually on this money, and their twisted reasoning for thinking that all of this is ok.

#lawsuit #paypal #round #wins

tpw 14 years ago

Thank you for the update.
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- Alexa Smith Banned 14 years ago
  
  Many thanks for the update, Brian. I'm very sorry to hear about this setback, and devoutly wishing you the very best for your continuance of the case.
  
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Joshua Rigley Banned 14 years ago

Good luck Brian, I hope you win your fight against PayPal. It's only a matter of time before someone puts a stop to their idiotic practices.
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- kindsvater 14 years ago
  
  Interesting decision. The limited PayPal contract language arguably at most should only apply to claims for breach of contract. Not other claims you apparently brought.
  
  Ironically, whether litigation is in California or Nebraska, PayPal's contract says the governing law is California.
  
  Applying California legal standards PayPal could have a problem avoiding a Mississippi court. For example, California courts rolled over AOL's contract requiring any disputes to be decided in Virginia, saying California customers were entitled to sue in California and to make use of California consumer protection laws.
  
  Then again, California is a little different than Mississippi. This is also a business to business and not a consumer dispute.
  
  Or consider this scenario: one of your students sues you in Mississippi for the cancellation of your contract to provide them with coaching. You cross-complain against PayPal. A court is going to split the case and require the cross-complaint to be decided in California? How does that work?
  
  Why would PayPal in the contract direct Florida residents to file complaints with the Florida Department of Financial Services if Florida law did not apply? Apparently, Florida is not Mississippi either.
  
  But, on a positive note, California law might give you additional legal claims that could not have been pursued in Mississippi.
  
  .
  
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winebuddy 14 years ago

All we need is ONE CASE to go to a jury - that'll take care of all this BS. The verdict on punitive damages alone could be over $100 million.
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Paul_Evans 14 years ago

Good luck, B! Blaze the path.

Had several friends get their accts frozen. Hoping that your results help them as well.
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Jeff Lenney 14 years ago

That really sucks Brian - did you ever get a dime of that $50k back after the 6 month period expired?

And YOU have to pay paypal $1000 for THEIR troubles? Forgive the term, but W T F?
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Michael Meaney 14 years ago

Good luck for round 2 Brian.

You're not just fighting for yourself, you're fighting on behalf of all of us, and you deserve the support of everyone doing business through Paypal.

Thanks for the update.
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tpw

14 years ago

Curiously, and can you say, Did PayPal send a representative to the hearing in Mississippi to determine jurisdiction of the case?

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E. Brian Rose

14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Curiously, and can you say, Did PayPal send a representative to the hearing in Mississippi to determine jurisdiction of the case?

They hired a local firm to handle the motion. After the hearing was over, I listened as an Internet journalist / blogger interviewed their attorney. She said that hardly any effort was put into the case, as PayPal sent them the script to use.

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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose

Thanks...

I guess that means that they have done this before...

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E. Brian Rose 14 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Thanks...

I guess that means that they have done this before...

Yes, they have. We have found cases where they have won the venue motion and lost the venue motion. We have not found any cases where the judge awarded $1,000 to PayPal though. Lucky me.
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hitmobi 14 years ago

Wow... good luck!

It's not easy going against a giant
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Black Hat Cat

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose

how many members have had their accounts frozen, how much money is being held in seized funds, how much interest they are making annually on this money

I guarantee you they are making less in interest than they would by processing payments.

It's been well over 6 months. Did they ever give you access to the funds?

Thanks
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E. Brian Rose

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

I guarantee you they are making less in interest than they would by processing payments.

It's been well over 6 months. Did they ever give you access to the funds?

You would think that would be the case (regarding processing over holding).... and yes, they did release the money, but that does not unring the bell.

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Sam England 14 years ago

When the dogs bites you it's best to bite back...normally the dog won't bite you again...

ARGH...that sounds nasty...oh well you get my point...

Git-R-Done...
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gowireless99 14 years ago

Thanks for the update. As someone who has been through paypal headaches in the past, I really feel sorry for you. One of these days Paypal is going to pay for the way they treat ebay sellers
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Starfusion 14 years ago

Good luck brian, I've heard so many accounts being frozen for no apparent reason at all, it's getting ridiculous.

Not only are you fighting for your own cause, if or "when" you win your case, your also fighting for all the thousands of innocent parties that have also had there accounts seized/limited!

I admire you for taking this further rather then sitting on your ass! I hope you can win this. My fingers are crossed for you.
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SteveJohnson 14 years ago

So now, unless you appeal this decision, you're down $1K plus attorney's fees. I admire you for going after them - I don't know if I would.

I can't say that the decision surprises me, though. I lived in and around Jackson for a number of years in the late 80s and early 90s. I worked for 'Wild Bill Watson', a big Jackson car dealer and local political wheel. I remember thinking at the time that Boss Hawg had nothin' on these guys.

Not saying that's the sort of judge that you drew on the case, but the stereotypes had to come from somewhere, didn't they? There're a couple of REALLY nice country clubs around Poplarville...
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Hostpany 14 years ago

I'm new to this topic, so this whole lawsuit has been going on for about 10 months????? That's a pretty long time.
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kindsvater

14 years ago

Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose

I look forward to the day that PayPal will have to answer in public documents how many members have had their accounts frozen, how much money is being held in seized funds, how much interest they are making annually on this money, and their twisted reasoning for thinking that all of this is ok.

Unless you're filing as a class action, or alleging California's unfair competition law, you may not get any of that information.

The question will be what happened in your situation. Not for anyone else.

And if something like that would be produced, PayPal will seek an order from the court to protect PayPal's private data from being produced "publicly".

But on another positive note, the fact that PayPal won $1k in attorney's fees could set them up for paying your attorneys' fees down the road. At least per California's broad statute requiring reciprocal fee provisions. That could wind up being a serious mistake on their part.

.

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E. Brian Rose

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

...the fact that PayPal won $1k in attorney's fees could set them up for paying your attorneys' fees down the road. At least per California's broad statute requiring reciprocal fee provisions. That could wind up being a serious mistake on their part.

.

Thanks. We are researching California Civil Code §1717 now, which addresses the reciprocal fee provisions.

Thanks
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creativeways 14 years ago

Good Luck with your lawsuit!
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Vulk 14 years ago

Good luck in the future, someone has to finally win against them.
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jideofor 14 years ago

I wish you all the best. I admire you valour to take them on. it is not easy but i will always pray for you. I want to see paypal BURN. The fact that they control much of the market has made them arrogant.
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Fazal Mayar 14 years ago

good luck with your lawsuit, try your best mate make wf forum proud
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- rts2271 14 years ago
  
  10th circuit in Texas is the best place to file.
  
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  azmanar 14 years ago
  
  Hi,
  
  Thank you for the update.
  
  I hope you'll win the case, which will really help others as well.
  
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  JJ Remington 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by rts2271
  
  10th circuit in Texas is the best place to file.
  
  I agree.
  
  Listen, Brian... you're blazing ground for all of us here. Post your PayPal email so people can contribute to your legal fund.
  
  Just kidding...DON'T use your PayPal account for crying out loud. But you might consider the fund idea.
  
  I'm riled up with them myself. They keep insisting they need my Tax ID info to comply with the new IRS rule if I do MORE than $20,000 in transactions this year. I keep pointing out that I have done roughly $3,000 to date, am nowhere close, and if I suddenly went over the top...I'd tap dance to the phone to report the info personally. 'Til then, they can suck eggs.
  
  I'm glad you are not a sheeple and don't respond well to commercial terrorism either. That's my term for it... being held hostage that way is nothing short of terrorism my friend.
  
  JJ
  
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  Guy Horton 14 years ago
  
  Brian, wish you all the best on round two. If anyone can blaze this trail, you're the Man.
  
  All the best,
  Guy
  
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  retirewithsandie 14 years ago
  
  Good Luck Brian as you make decisions & move forward . That sucks so much.
  
  At least they finally released the money. But it's a shame that you can do what you feel is right by contacting them yet they have people that you don't know about & can't talk to can't make your life a mess
  
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Simon74 14 years ago

Good luck Brian, I hope justice will be done
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Mohammad Afaq 14 years ago

Brian, I really think you have brass balls for going after Paypal and trying to make them pay for what they did to you.

Paypal once froze my account with about a quarter of the amount you had in your account and I thought about going after them in court but then decided not to and had to bite the bullet.

So all the best man and if you need any help (you probably won't but hey it doesn't hurt to say it ) just let me know and I will do my best.
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AprilCT 14 years ago

Sorry they won the round Brian. But, it ain't over yet and I'm betting on you to win. It's going to singe them eventually since you are one of many.

I just got a call from Paypal two days ago asking about a transaction where I paid a seller. Apparently he or she is on their radar tracking system. It wasn't a sale on here.

The very best of luck (and may your attorneys handle it properly) for being right to you, Brian, and I'm sure that the Warriors are all rooting for you. I'm so tired of reading all these horror stories. It's time they stopped.
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Digital Empire 14 years ago

Sorry about your troubles. I've heard so many bad things about paypal. It's amazing how they continue to do things like this and nothing seems to happen to them.
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zbrshakeel 14 years ago

I knew paypal would win
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- E. Brian Rose 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by zbrshakeel
  
  I knew paypal would win
  
  LOL you are the man!
  
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WinXPrize 14 years ago

Lol, paypal has just gotten me too. They froze my account for a stupid reason. It's a good thing that I was able to move at least 10,000 out of that pp account a few weeks back.

There is still 1,000ish left in my pp though. I run a little website which I provide seo service to people, and I also sell e-books on one of my website which I own. So this past week a few customers decided to get paypal ro refund out of no where, and one of them did a charge back on their CC. It seem that scared paypal to the point they've decided to freeze my account until I can confirm my SS number, my photo id, proof of transaction and so on.

I gave them everything they wanted, I even gave my CC + bank account number to them. I did everything to make them happy and they pretty much just acted like jerks about it. They choose to continuing freezing my account. Oh and by the way, paypal went to my favor, I've won the dispute case. Paypal choose not to refund my customers except one of them only because that specific person did a charge back on his CC.

I am planning on talking to my lawyer about it to get some wisdom, he has helped me won one case before which was a family death related problem. (A fake girlfriend wanted to get all the money that he owned before his death)

I'll have to give this some thought, I just hate how they're keeping that much of my money. All I know is that I have to do something about this.
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PayPal Wins Round One of Lawsuit

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