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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:37 AM   #1
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Default The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

Hi Warriors,

Please listen, and listen carefully. I am a CPA marketer and I use Lloyds TSB (business banking) in the UK. Now even though Lloyds TSB is a UK bank, this may affect everybody who is making money online.

This is not a short post. On the 29th March, I tried to log into my online bank. Turns out that they had frozen my account. The reason? They didn't give me one. They said: "we need supporting evidence to show proof of income". By the way, they did not inform or warn me of the freeze. No phone call, letter or email. They just did it - on a suspicious hunch. And they also tell me that it has already been frozen for one week. I just didn't know.

I tried to rationalize in my own mind. Since my Lloyds business account ONLY had money coming in for a while, it looked odd. This account has been open since May last year. However, I explained to the bank that my expenses were being relinquished from my Lloyds personal account, as this year has been a transitionary period for me. Hence money is leaving the personal account, and income is going into the business account. And this was about to change. He understood.

Of course, my initial response to this whole thing was anger. However, I proceeded to contact the CPA networks I mainly work with (Maxbounty, CX Digital, and 3 others) who all emailed me the breakdown of the last months transactions along with a short nice paragraph stating "we value your business" all in PDF format.

I sent these over invoices to the bank via email they provided. So now, I'm calling the bank EVERY day to find out what the situation is. The general tone everyday for 5 days was is "they have received your documents and are reviewing it currently". I spoke to a different person in the business department EVERY day. I made a note of ALL their names, the dates, and what they said. Some were pleasant - others didn't give a crap. It was horrible and frustrating. Remember, I am calling them here, They are NOT calling me or contacting me at all.

To top this off, I've recently moved to New Jersey (got married last November, been here for 6 months) and so my bank is in reality 4000 miles away. I am originally from London, UK.

I went through 2 weekends of NOT have any access to my money including easter weekend. The bank would not even let me talk to the investigative department. I wasn't allowed to.

April 11th & 12th and they tell me that they will call me at the end of the day with a response. Not that I will have access, just... a response. Pathetic. But I received NO phone call. No email.

April 13th, I try logging in, and it now appears I have access again. So the info I gave them must have been sufficient. But they did NOT call me to tell me, it was unfrozen -- again -- I found out myself.

Now my mother calls me up from London, and Lloyds have sent a letter to me to my London address, saying this: 2012-04-14_1121 - ShamirRele's library

They are basically telling me to leave them! They told me to leave my 12th June and also asked me to return cheque books and cards associated with them. Unreal. They gave me NO reason for the freeze OR why they don't want me to bank with them anymore. I've already contacted a lawyer as during the freeze, I had to STOP all my marketing efforts in fear of not paying my business and personal bills. He said they owe me. Lloyds locked me out of my business account for more than 2 weeks, and I only found out 1 week in. They gave me no reason. They were not courteous enough to even contact me ONCE during this whole thing.

I want to WARN everybody who is banking with Lloyds TSB. If you are an internet marketer, or if you do ANYTHING where you receive money from different companies, or perhaps you do product launches, or whatever, please be warned. They don't seem to even want to understand the nature of my business.

Of course, I will leave Lloyds - as not only do I have no choice, but why would I want to bank with them anyhow.

If you have any advice, thoughts or anything. Please let me know. I'm not happy.. to say the least.

Shamir
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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

That seems crazy, but if I was you I would go to a bank that wanted my business. The bank is there to serve its members, without people like you putting money into your account, they would have no money.

Long story short, find a new bank

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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Just in time. I have an appointment to open a new business bank account with Lloyds tsb.

Not after reading that. I'll be looking elsewhere. Shocking customer service.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:56 AM   #4
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

RUN FAR AWAY! That is pure cr@p if you ask me. It's without a doubt time to get a lawyer involved.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

This will happen with any bank (U.S. or other) if you're operating a business.

Yes it is horrible customer service.

But focus on getting your money back. Then switch banks.

But just be forewarned this is common place. Usually only happens if you have larger bank accounts, but its something you need to be aware of and be prepared for.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

You might want to try and find out if you're on a 'suspected persons' list. I'm not condoning their actions but financial institutions are under pressure nowadays to monitor 'suspicious' banking activity and report/respond to it.
This is in light of terrorism, money laundering and funding terrorists - there's a lot going on in that whole industry since 9/11, the mortgage meltdown and Bernie Madoff!!
You weren't too specific about what you were doing with passing money between your personal and business accounts and what amounts were involved, but it may well have raised a flag somewhere. Then there's your overseas travel activity which might figure in to it.
I know this sounds paranoid but it's very real, I've read about a lot similar stuff going on in the past couple years. The fact that they didn't explain their decisions suggests they were acting in compliance with a legal directive instructing them not to disclose certain types of information.
Your attorney may be able to get them to release the information and I think it's important that you employ him/her to do so, so you know where you stand.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetrafficguy View Post
This will happen with any bank (U.S. or other) if you're operating a business.

Yes it is horrible customer service.

But focus on getting your money back. Then switch banks.

But just be forewarned this is common place. Usually only happens if you have larger bank accounts, but its something you need to be aware of and be prepared for.
A friend of mine almost had the same situation with a non-mainstream American bank, however, once you've explained your situation (ie. the business you are in, how you receive money, irregular patterns, etc) they will leave it alone.

I did explain this to Lloyds when opening the account, but the truth is they are so archaic and very impersonal. They don't give a ****.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
The bank is there to serve its members
No - the bank is there to make a profit by serving members. Increasingly, CPA payments are viewed with suspicion. With a very traditional bank, this could be the reason. Concerns for legal details can make them suspicious and they think like bankers, not like marketers.

Suck it up - get your money out and move to a different bank.


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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by rooze View Post
You might want to try and find out if you're on a 'suspected persons' list. I'm not condoning their actions but financial institutions are under pressure nowadays to monitor 'suspicious' banking activity and report/respond to it.
This is in light of terrorism, money laundering and funding terrorists - there's a lot going on in that whole industry since 9/11, the mortgage meltdown and Bernie Madoff!!
You weren't too specific about what you were doing with passing money between your personal and business accounts and what amounts were involved, but it may well have raised a flag somewhere. Then there's your overseas travel activity which might figure in to it.
I know this sounds paranoid but it's very real, I've read about a lot similar stuff going on in the past couple years. The fact that they didn't explain their decisions suggests they were acting in compliance with a legal directive instructing them not to disclose certain types of information.
Your attorney may be able to get them to release the information and I think it's important that you employ him/her to do so, so you know where you stand.
Thank you... I will. My lawyer will be starting on Monday. I know why it raised flags - the amounts coming into the account were 3-4 figures at a time from CPA networks. I do make international payments from insidethe Lloyds account to Amex to pay for my business expenses every month. THEY KNOW this. They see it on their screen.

And sure, every 2 months or so, I pay myself some money (to a Bank of America account) to live on. To pay rent, and general bills. They can also see that. Seriously, they may have me on a list. I don't know. But I got nothing to hide. I've been open and honest with them. They did not to their due diligence at all. They are just suspicious - and have appalling customer service.

Living the internet marketing lifestyle means you want to travel. Make money here, and spend over there. Clearly, Lloyds are living in the Brick & Mortar world.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Oh dear. Hope you get this sorted. I know a guy that had troubles with his bank before...it really sucks!

Hope you get it sorted,

Daniel
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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Have your lawyer on their a**es. In my view it doesn't matter what their thoughts are with respect to this, suspicious, terrorism or otherwise. If there was no just levy or some court order to freeze your account or anything like that I'm fairly certain you legally had some of your rights violated w/o a doubt.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

This is really bad. I've heard these horror stories from friends who have had other bank accounts and paypal accounts frozen.

Banks/paypal should realize that most of us IMers learn as much as they can from Forums like this one, buy some wso's and join some coaching programs. This is an investment of our time and money which will hopefully generate income for us. So most of us work harder in IM than those working the normal 9-5 job.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

I never heard of bank accounts being frozen due to online work at home activities. This is really weird.

I would either do 2 things here.

1. Think of a positive outcome with the bank and wait a few more days.

2. Or worst case scenerio, you just dump them and move to another bank. Make sure that you are not doing any "illegal" activity in the future. Maybe your bank now thinks that way.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 11:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Wow, I was actually thinking of opening a new bank account here in the UK, Lloyds was one of my options. Not anymore.

Guess I have to be extremely happy with my home bank from Romania, ING - I once had a big problem let's say, customer support was excellent, got informed about the situation, got e-mails, phone calls from them, everything. It goes without saying that my problem was solved in a few days.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 03:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Hi,

UK is quite famous for it's more liberal banking policies than others in Europe. Lately, British offshore banking services in Virgin Island were making headlines as a great safe haven for a lot of things, including grey areas.

So it is very strange to hear that Lloyds is regressing. Could this be some sort of racial profiling that triggered some alarms at MI5's bureau?

If you can, go for Stanchart or HSBC or Citibank. They are just about everywhere in the world and great banking services.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 05:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

The Feds don't trust "work at home". In fact, if I remember correctly, PayPal even has TOS against "work at home" and "mlm".

Never mind that most of us "work at home" anyway. It is just that it is believed that most online scams are wrapped in "work at home" terminology.

But the fact here is that you raised suspicions by having money come into your business account, without money leaving your business account.

You were paying your business expenses from your personal account instead of your business account. That raised eyebrows.

They were viewing each account as independent, unconnected accounts. And your business account was receiving income without any outgoing expenses.

It smelled strongly of money laundering.

Add to that the fact that you know longer lived in the UK, but lived in America, and you account looks like you are laundering money.

Any bank would have likely flipped on you.

My advice. When you start receiving money to your business account, then start paying for your expenses out of the same account.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 07:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Well with money going out of your personal account and money going into your business account they might have felt you were trying to launder money. After they realized you were not they gave you access again.

The letter might have been sent before they finished their investigation or they do not fully understand what the internet and making a living from the internet is all about.

Either way, switch banks immediately!

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Unread 14th April 2012, 07:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

You might want to read super freakonomics book. It's an international best seller you might have heard about. It talks about a lot of different topics that intertwine but it has a section about I think it was a mathematician that worked for a bank that he created an algorithm based on suspicious transactions. Basically if you met certain criteria, your account would set off an alarm to have a human analyze it and then it would get sent to the authorities to have a closer look.

It was developed to help spot terrorists before they committed an attack.Turns out that it is very effective. The bad part is that even though it is 99.97% accurate that 0.03% of the general population that is not a terrorist still pays for others" freedom"

Another good book to work your way around that is called the laundrymen. It basically tells you what money launderers do to avoid getting caught and even though you have nothing to hide it opens your eyes to what you can do to avoid a sticky situation like the one you have just described.

I really recommend you read those 2 books. It will avoid you many headaches if you deal that kind of money (large sums)
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Unread 14th April 2012, 08:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Sorry, I haven't read all your post, but I understood that your account was frozen by LloydsTSB right. So let me tell you my story.

I was having an LloydsTSB business account.I was getting payments from my clients, and affiliate networks, one day I've been banned. They said my account is under review until there is on-going investigation. After few weeks I received a letter that my bank account is closed, no reason given. ( In few weeks I received 20+ payments, all was accepted by bank no returns. ) I came to bank to take out all money, and guess what ( there was some fraudulent payments come to my account ) so they took that money, showed documentation from where come and gave me insurance claim form. Then I asked them about my other payments ( statement wasn't showing any ) and if I will can use lloyds again. So they made a call and simple answer - there wasn't any payments made during this and this period and also said that this is final decision.

Only after 3 MONTHS I get back my money.

Lloyds sucks guys, don't use it, run from there immediately
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Unread 14th April 2012, 08:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Several years ago I had trouble with my bank. Nothing as horrible as what you described but enough to make me tighten up my business financial strategy. So I feel your pain.

I suggest before you open your account in US, register an LLC or S-corp, sole proprietorships are always getting screwed over by banks. Second, choose a bank where you can open the account personally with the manager. This can either be a small branch of a big bank or a small bank.

We spend so much time networking with other marketers but we often forget to network with the most important people...the folks who handle our money.

But since the IM business model is relatively new and so wrought with fraudsters, it's only to your benefit that you get to know your banker.

Even though 100% of my transactions can be handled online, I still make a point to go into the office once per month. I congratulate the tellers on their babies and send the manager a gift basket on his anniversary. As a result, I seldom stand in line and no matter how slight the problem I always receive a phone call.

I know this does not help your current situation but it's something to keep in mind as you move forward.
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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Hi Shamir,

Please note that we can pay you other ways, so that you can still continue with your marketing. We can offer you payment through PayPal, Payoneer pre-paid Mastercard, and ACH payments now that you are in the US.

Feel free to let me know if I can help further, or give Adam a shout.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

No way. So horrible. Just go to UK and meet them

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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Sauve View Post
Hi Shamir,

Please note that we can pay you other ways, so that you can still continue with your marketing. We can offer you payment through PayPal, Payoneer pre-paid Mastercard, and ACH payments now that you are in the US.

Feel free to let me know if I can help further, or give Adam a shout.

^^^ Great service right there
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Unread 14th April 2012, 09:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

One more reason to use a small bank. When I go in, they all know my name etc. and if I have any troubles, I can talk to a manager on the spot. They do everything a big bank does, they are just far more friendlier about it.

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Unread 14th April 2012, 10:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Sorry about the situation. Do you think you can reclaim your income in a short period of time with another bank?

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Unread 15th April 2012, 12:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpw View Post
The Feds don't trust "work at home". In fact, if I remember correctly, PayPal even has TOS against "work at home" and "mlm".

Never mind that most of us "work at home" anyway. It is just that it is believed that most online scams are wrapped in "work at home" terminology.

But the fact here is that you raised suspicions by having money come into your business account, without money leaving your business account.

You were paying your business expenses from your personal account instead of your business account. That raised eyebrows.

They were viewing each account as independent, unconnected accounts. And your business account was receiving income without any outgoing expenses.

It smelled strongly of money laundering.

Add to that the fact that you know longer lived in the UK, but lived in America, and you account looks like you are laundering money.

Any bank would have likely flipped on you.

My advice. When you start receiving money to your business account, then start paying for your expenses out of the same account.
Bill is correct. The activity pattern in the account makes it look like a money laundering account. The bank systems are automatically looking for patterns.

A similar scandal uncovered in HSBC New York showed the branch officers were even involved. They were using customers accounts and identifications to set up new accounts and laundering money through former customer's names.

Best strategy is to follow Bill's advice and keep a couple of bank accounts working with at least two merchant accounts funding as a contingency plan.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 01:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

It will depend on what kind of business you are involved with but if you can get a traditional merchant account and regularly draw expenses from your account (write yourself a check with a payroll service,pay small bills) you will stay far away from these types of problems.

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Unread 15th April 2012, 02:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Thanks for the heads up. I'm from the UK too and I currently bank with Halifax and Barclays... Don't think I'll ever bank with TSB after reading this.

James Scholes

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Unread 15th April 2012, 09:50 AM   #29
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
But the fact here is that you raised suspicions by having money come into your business account, without money leaving your business account.

You were paying your business expenses from your personal account instead of your business account. That raised eyebrows.

They were viewing each account as independent, unconnected accounts. And your business account was receiving income without any outgoing expenses.

It smelled strongly of money laundering.
I completely understand that. However, Lloyds TSB should do their due diligence IMO. You can't simply make assumptions, especially, when the banks that are sending me money do money laundering checks themselves. I know this, because my accountant tole me. He basically thinks that they simply would rather me walk away, then for them to take the effort and talk to me as a human being. Its disgusting the way they have handled it.

LLoyds TSB already know where the money is coming form. They know the banks, as well as the CPA networks that use them.

Now I'm caught between a rock and hard place. I need to be able to trade with my funds from a business bank account. I'm living in the USA, my social security number /green should be with me in around 4 weeks. I can't just open up a business bank account here in NJ, because they require a SS number. I can't just open one up in the UK because I need to be there to make that happen. What a pain.

Quote:
Hi Shamir,

Please note that we can pay you other ways, so that you can still continue with your marketing. We can offer you payment through PayPal, Payoneer pre-paid Mastercard, and ACH payments now that you are in the US.

Feel free to let me know if I can help further, or give Adam a shout.

Thank you Steven. I appreciate your support on behalf of Maxbounty. You guys have been great.

mrinternational - Thanks. I already feel like a criminal, so I may as well read up on these. They look very interesting.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 10:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by xxxJamesxxx View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I'm from the UK too and I currently bank with Halifax and Barclays... Don't think I'll ever bank with TSB after reading this.

James Scholes

Stay with Barclays. I love them, they are giving me many incentives. One of the incentive travel tickets to 'hot' country*

*- I'm talking about barclays biz account.

-----

What about Halifax - Remember that Halifax is Lloyds Banking Group property!
Even Telephone Banking systems are the same ones only different CEOs and bank name.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 10:45 AM   #31
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by Shamir Rele View Post
this may affect everybody who is making money online the way I do.
Fixed that for you.

Your account is being closed for no clearly defined reason.

It's clearly because of something you're doing, but you don't know what.

It's almost certainly not simply because you make money online.

It probably has something to do with how you market your CPA offers. Most CPA marketers basically have the morals of a turd.

"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Unread 15th April 2012, 11:05 AM   #32
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Quote:
It probably has something to do with how you market your CPA offers.
The bank don't give two craps about 'how I market my offers'. They flagged me for money laundering because of how the money is coming in (patterns of income) and my taking out money (to my Bank of America account.. as I now live here in the US).

I have a hunch on why they are doing this. It has nothing to do with my cpa marketing efforts.

Also, I'd appreciate you ask me question rather than trying to edit and in your highly opinionated manner 'fix' what I have typed out.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 12:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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...Most CPA marketers basically have the morals of a turd.

A turd? That's brutal.

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Unread 15th April 2012, 12:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post
Fixed that for you.

Your account is being closed for no clearly defined reason.

It's clearly because of something you're doing, but you don't know what.

It's almost certainly not simply because you make money online.

It probably has something to do with how you market your CPA offers. Most CPA marketers basically have the morals of a turd.
How exactly would the bank know how he is marketing his offers? They don't have access to the same referrer/source information that the CPA network does. You're reaching on that one.

The only thing the bank is concerned with is how the money is coming/going and who the money is coming/going to/from.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 01:15 PM   #35
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post
Fixed that for you.

Your account is being closed for no clearly defined reason.

It's clearly because of something you're doing, but you don't know what.

It's almost certainly not simply because you make money online.

It probably has something to do with how you market your CPA offers. Most CPA marketers basically have the morals of a turd.
I believe that most CPA marketers are attempting to create an income from a well versed and well thought out campaign. Some I agree push the limits but for the most part I believe they are offering a service and being paid for it. Some are paid well others are trying to figure out how or what to do to be paid well.

I agree that the input and output of money going into the account was not consistant with what the bank deemed normal. They may not notify you due to the fact that they could still be doing a forensic search on the contributors to your account.

On that note it may be a good idea with whatever bank you are dealing with to discuss your business and ask for input so this does not happen again.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 02:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post
It probably has something to do with how you market your CPA offers.
How would the bank know how he markets his CPA offers?
Quote:
Most CPA marketers basically have the morals of a...
That was pretty much uncalled for.

I know Shamir, and I know that he doesn't fit that bill at all.
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Unread 15th April 2012, 02:09 PM   #37
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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How exactly would the bank know how he is marketing his offers? They don't have access to the same referrer/source information that the CPA network does.
They do, however, have the CPA network documents listing his detailed transaction information... and probably contact information for the networks... maybe even for his AM... and quite likely the internal ID for his account. All of which can be used in further investigation.

So to answer your actual question, you should probably not send them the same documents your CPA network sends you. That's how not to get caught doing what "everyone" in CPA marketing is doing.

Which is why you didn't ask how he might be marketing - because you already know.

Morals of a turd.

"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Unread 15th April 2012, 02:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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I completely understand that. However, Lloyds TSB should do their due diligence IMO. You can't simply make assumptions, especially, when the banks that are sending me money do money laundering checks themselves. I know this, because my accountant tole me. He basically thinks that they simply would rather me walk away, then for them to take the effort and talk to me as a human being. Its disgusting the way they have handled it.

You are expecting that the bank should have made assumptions. You are expecting that they should have looked at the activity in your personal account, to understand what was going on in your business account.

In the real world, it does not work that way.

A bank cannot look at Account A to justify the activity in Account B. They can only look at Account B to justify the activity in Account B.

This is the due diligence they are required make.

A bank cannot look at my joint checking account with my wife to understand what is happening in my business. If my bank were to do that, they would be making a lot of incorrect assumptions about my business.

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Unread 15th April 2012, 02:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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They do, however, have the CPA network documents listing his detailed transaction information... and probably contact information for the networks... maybe even for his AM... and quite likely the internal ID for his account. All of which can be used in further investigation.
Yeah, I was counting on that. The whole point of me sending invoices from the networks to my bank, is to show that they have paid me. Thats what the bank wants to know... that they paid me. Not "what marketing are you using to generate commissions on these networks.". :rolleyes:

Quote:
So to answer your actual question, you should probably not send them the same documents your CPA network sends you. That's how not to get caught doing what "everyone" in CPA marketing is doing.
I'm not sure you even understand why the bank would freeze my account in the first place. This about patterns if income. Not traffic methods. lol.

Quote:
A bank cannot look at Account A to justify the activity in Account B. They can only look at Account B to justify the activity in Account B.

This is the due diligence they are required make.
When I called them up, they actually asked me questions about my business and my life in general to clean up this whole mess. Questions such as what I do, where I live, if I travel, about the money coming in, etc. I explained it to him. He made notes on the system for the entire Lloyds bank to see. He understood everything.

Then, after a few grueling days, they unfreeze my account (without telling me). Shortly after I find out that they have sent me a letter asking me to take my money and return their cards. My point is, I agree that its not their job to find out how my business is operating monetarily, however, after asking me questions and clarifying a bunch of facts, that shouldn't equal to "ok, please take your money and bank elsewhere, and you have 60 days to do so".

Thats where I feel they should care a little more about their customers. If I was a criminal, I wouldn't be asking them "what more can I do to help you guys out?"
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Unread 15th April 2012, 03:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Thats exactly why i work with CLICKBANK I don't have to worry about any of that! Find out if they have their products on CB and if not would consider putting it there.

Last edited by Clandog; 15th April 2012 at 03:03 PM. Reason: for got to add another thought
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Unread 15th April 2012, 03:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by Shamir Rele View Post
I'm not sure you even understand why the bank would freeze my account in the first place.
And I suggest that if you understood why the bank would freeze your account, you probably would not have done what inspired them to do so.

Quote:
I explained it to him. [...] He understood everything. [...] they have sent me a letter asking me to take my money and return their cards.
So you explained, he understood, and now they don't want your business.

And this is about patterns of income, then? Not about the way you do business? Not about the type of marketing you use?

Sure about that, are you?

Quote:
If I was a criminal, I wouldn't be asking them "what more can I do to help you guys out?"
Yes you would, and for exactly that reason: because you think it proves you're not a criminal. Which it doesn't, for exactly that reason.

"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Unread 15th April 2012, 03:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

Thanks for sharing this great information and I am saved from Llyods TSB, from beginning I don't like Llyods TSB, so I am with others banks and save from them..

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Unread 15th April 2012, 08:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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And I suggest that if you understood why the bank would freeze your account, you probably would not have done what inspired them to do so.
The bank froze my account because of patterns of money income/outgoing monies... I understand why. I just don't feel its justified.

Quote:
And this is about patterns of income, then? Not about the way you do business? Not about the type of marketing you use?

Sure about that, are you?
Yes, I'm sure. Its a bank. Not a CPA network. From my conversation on the phone to the bank, I know.

Quote:
Yes you would, and for exactly that reason: because you think it proves you're not a criminal. Which it doesn't, for exactly that reason.
Thanks. Great advice.
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Unread 16th April 2012, 09:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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The letter might have been sent before they finished their investigation or they do not fully understand what the internet and making a living from the internet is all about.
Hey Mike. Missed this one. They sent the letter the day before they unfroze my account. And I think you are right....they don't understand making a living off the internet.
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Unread 16th April 2012, 10:41 AM   #45
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Default Re: The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

This bank doesn't sound like they have any customer service at all. I can't believe they would do that...beware to all in the industry....
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Unread 16th April 2012, 10:48 AM   #46
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Default Re: The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

Reminds me of the country I was born in the government froze my Grandmothers account with her life savings and took her money. They also didn't give a reason and other people go the same "love".

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Unread 16th April 2012, 11:30 AM   #47
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Default Re: *The bank froze my business account* - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by xxxJamesxxx View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I'm from the UK too and I currently bank with Halifax and Barclays... Don't think I'll ever bank with TSB after reading this.

James Scholes
James,
You do realise that Halifax is owned by Lloyds TSB since last year? I've recently had issues as they've merged their customer databases losing one of my accounts in the process!

Rich
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Unread 19th April 2012, 02:51 AM   #48
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Default Re: The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

As someone said you probably triggered the flags in the banks anti money laundering systems. Its possible that your move to the US didnt help. I have worked at banks and this stuff is taken mega seriously.

The guys in the compliance team are personally, yes personally, liable if a fraud takes place and they dont pick up on it. If a flag is raised and they let you continue to do business and it turns out you are a terrorist or money launderer, they will face the sack, heavy fines or even jail. Plus if the flag is raised they are not allowed to tell you why they have frozen your account or not processed your transactions.

It does seem heavy handed but look at it from their point of view. Theres some clerk sitting in a office somewhere, and he/she is thinking, if i get this wrong im gonna get a heavy fine or lose my job. And its no joke it does happen.

As someone said try the personal touch in future as it will make all the difference. Open an account in person and let them see who you are. Might be worth flying back to the uk and seeing the branch manager of where you hold your account to sort this out. They need to know that you are a real person and not a scammer. Unfortunately fraud is a massive problem for banks and it looks like you got caught by someone being cautious

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Unread 19th April 2012, 03:15 AM   #49
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Default Re: The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

This is a powerful and interesting story glad I came here as I to bank with lloyds and live in London, although I have one other bank i'll be looking at others.
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Unread 20th April 2012, 08:24 AM   #50
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Default Re: The bank froze my business account - AND told me to leave

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Originally Posted by Shamir Rele View Post
Hi Warriors,

Please listen, and listen carefully. I am a CPA marketer and I use Lloyds TSB (business banking) in the UK. Now even though Lloyds TSB is a UK bank, this may affect everybody who is making money online.

This is not a short post. On the 29th March, I tried to log into my online bank. Turns out that they had frozen my account. The reason? They didn't give me one. They said: "we need supporting evidence to show proof of income". By the way, they did not inform or warn me of the freeze. No phone call, letter or email. They just did it - on a suspicious hunch. And they also tell me that it has already been frozen for one week. I just didn't know.

I tried to rationalize in my own mind. Since my Lloyds business account ONLY had money coming in for a while, it looked odd. This account has been open since May last year. However, I explained to the bank that my expenses were being relinquished from my Lloyds personal account, as this year has been a transitionary period for me. Hence money is leaving the personal account, and income is going into the business account. And this was about to change. He understood.

Of course, my initial response to this whole thing was anger. However, I proceeded to contact the CPA networks I mainly work with (Maxbounty, CX Digital, and 3 others) who all emailed me the breakdown of the last months transactions along with a short nice paragraph stating "we value your business" all in PDF format.

I sent these over invoices to the bank via email they provided. So now, I'm calling the bank EVERY day to find out what the situation is. The general tone everyday for 5 days was is "they have received your documents and are reviewing it currently". I spoke to a different person in the business department EVERY day. I made a note of ALL their names, the dates, and what they said. Some were pleasant - others didn't give a crap. It was horrible and frustrating. Remember, I am calling them here, They are NOT calling me or contacting me at all.

To top this off, I've recently moved to New Jersey (got married last November, been here for 6 months) and so my bank is in reality 4000 miles away. I am originally from London, UK.

I went through 2 weekends of NOT have any access to my money including easter weekend. The bank would not even let me talk to the investigative department. I wasn't allowed to.

April 11th & 12th and they tell me that they will call me at the end of the day with a response. Not that I will have access, just... a response. Pathetic. But I received NO phone call. No email.

April 13th, I try logging in, and it now appears I have access again. So the info I gave them must have been sufficient. But they did NOT call me to tell me, it was unfrozen -- again -- I found out myself.

Now my mother calls me up from London, and Lloyds have sent a letter to me to my London address, saying this: 2012-04-14_1121 - ShamirRele's library

They are basically telling me to leave them! They told me to leave my 12th June and also asked me to return cheque books and cards associated with them. Unreal. They gave me NO reason for the freeze OR why they don't want me to bank with them anymore. I've already contacted a lawyer as during the freeze, I had to STOP all my marketing efforts in fear of not paying my business and personal bills. He said they owe me. Lloyds locked me out of my business account for more than 2 weeks, and I only found out 1 week in. They gave me no reason. They were not courteous enough to even contact me ONCE during this whole thing.

I want to WARN everybody who is banking with Lloyds TSB. If you are an internet marketer, or if you do ANYTHING where you receive money from different companies, or perhaps you do product launches, or whatever, please be warned. They don't seem to even want to understand the nature of my business.

Of course, I will leave Lloyds - as not only do I have no choice, but why would I want to bank with them anyhow.

If you have any advice, thoughts or anything. Please let me know. I'm not happy.. to say the least.

Shamir
I like to apologies if my reply sound rude, but I believe the bank suspect you a terrorist that why this happen. Since 9/11 thing are no longer same. Your name may ring some bell at the bank. Sorry for what happen to you and thank you for your story.
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