Question about Paypal refund policy

12 years ago

Neither.

In a dispute, they do their best to arbitrate fairly in my experience.

I have never had any problem with them whatsoever either as a buyer or as a seller.

Will

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LR

12 years ago

I believe they do their best to be fair to both parties.

But I have to agree with Big Mike's observation of sighting with the seller on intangible items.

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kawaii

12 years ago

Hey Big Mike,

Sellers who lose disputes for intangible items probably don't know how to respond to them to win in the first place. We haven't lost a dispute in years, thanks to a few things I learned from Brian Kindsvator (another WF member).

How do you usually response to the buyer that makes paypal side with you?

Thanks
1 reply

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petelta 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joyce B

Hey Big Mike,

How do you usually response to the buyer that makes paypal side with you?

"haha, i win"

:p
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FNHPWR11

12 years ago

For as many problem free transactions I have had over the 10 or so years, I always seem to remember the negative ones. They were when I was the seller and the buyer was committing fraud. Both times they sided with the buyer (who was committing blatant fraud).

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1 reply

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billthelord

12 years ago

This is one of the big reasons I want to get away from Paypal.

For intangible items

1. Paypal will usually side with the seller.

HOWEVER, I've had lot of situations where people buy my intangible products, download everything, milk all the services dry...

...then they complain to Paypal. We both give evidence and I win.

BUT

2. The Buyer will complain to Visa...and Visa beats Paypal EVERY TIME and not only do I get de-frauded, but I have to pay extra to Paypal for their fight with Visa.

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1 reply

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GreatMarkO

12 years ago

Originally Posted by billthelord

2. The Buyer will complain to Visa...and Visa beats Paypal EVERY TIME and not only do I get de-frauded, but I have to pay extra to Paypal for their fight with Visa.

As a seller, this has also been my experience - if the buyer complains to their credit card issuer instead of PayPal, PayPal will bow to the Credit Card issuer, and pass the chargers on to the seller, even if PayPal sides with the seller!!

After a couple of lengthy phone conversations with PayPal support, they have confirmed to me that as a seller selling intangible goods (software download/Saas) PayPal offer me no protection as a Seller even if I can prove my case to them beyond reasonable doubt - if the buyer goes to their Credit Card issuer, it's then out of PayPal's hands, and they have no choice but honor the Credit Card issuer - it's very worrying!! ...but what can we as sellers of software do?

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billthelord

12 years ago

Originally Posted by GreatMarkO

As a seller, this has also been my experience - if the buyer complains to their credit card issuer instead of PayPal, PayPal will bow to the Credit Card issuer, and pass the chargers on to the seller, even if PayPal sides with the seller!!

After a couple of lengthy phone conversations with PayPal support, they have confirmed to me that as a seller selling intangible goods (software download/Saas) PayPal offer me no protection as a Seller even if I can prove my case to them beyond reasonable doubt - if the buyer goes to their Credit Card issuer, it's then out of PayPal's hands, and they have no choice but honor the Credit Card issuer - it's very worrying!! ...but what can we as sellers of software do?

What you wrote is also my experience.

Paypal offers NO PROTECTION as a seller of intangible goods.

Buyers have a license to steal. Just take whatever you want and then use Visa to destroy Paypal.

This is a huge issue for Sellers.

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Istvan Horvath

12 years ago

Originally Posted by GreatMarkO

As a seller, this has also been my experience - if the buyer complains to their credit card issuer instead of PayPal, PayPal will bow to the Credit Card issuer, and pass the chargers on to the seller, even if PayPal sides with the seller!!

I don't think anybody ever heard me complaining about Paypal... but recently I had a case that happened exactly as described above.

Scammer buyer bought the product.
Then he went to his CC issuer and asked for a charge back, claiming "unauthorized" payment.
He did it on the same day to several WF members here.

Called PayPal and warned them about this idiot - pointing them where to look for proof.
The representative definitely promised me I will not be charged by PP for the charge back fee - no matter the end result because he could see the same guy asking for a lot of refunds.

Guess what? After a few days the payment was reversed and I got charged by PP with the charge back fee.

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Tim_Carter

12 years ago

Big Mike hit it on the head. I have never lost a dispute as a seller. Also I have had about four chargebacks since 2005 and won three. Just give them the information you have for the chargeback. PayPal hates chargebacks as much as we do and fight them vigorously.

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billthelord

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim_Carter

PayPal hates chargebacks as much as we do and fight them vigorously.

I strongly doubt that.

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Tim_Carter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by billthelord

No, it's not needed.

Because Paypals own policy isn't the problem, it's how they handle chargebacks that's the problem.

Originally Posted by billthelord

I strongly doubt that.

I guess with your nine posts you are an expert huh?

As I said I have never lost a dispute. I lost one out of only four chargebacks (the first one) because I didn't know what to say in my reply. I won every other.

That is real experience as is Big Mike's. So say what you want, but experience trumps your opinion.

Their policy is crystal clear. Just know how to respond as a seller and you always win on intangible.

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billthelord

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim_Carter

I guess with your nine posts you are an expert huh?

As I said I have never lost a dispute. I lost one out of only four chargebacks (the first one) because I didn't know what to say in my reply. I won every other.

That is real experience as is Big Mike's. So say what you want, but experience trumps your opinion.

Their policy is crystal clear. Just know how to respond as a seller and you always win on intangible.

Oh yeah, 9 posts on this particular forum make me not credible on this issue right??

You don't know what you are talking about. Many buyers simply want to milk resources.

Except for you, Mr. Special...

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ProAffiliate01

12 years ago

Each seller usually has their own return policy. However, to get return directly with PayPal after a purchase usually a dispute has to be opened.

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Tim_Carter 12 years ago

Originally Posted by ProAffiliate01

Each seller usually has their own return policy. However, to get return directly with PayPal after a purchase usually a dispute has to be opened.

Someone needs to do some research or look at what Big Mike wrote.
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- billthelord 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Tim_Carter
  
  Someone needs to do some research or look at what Big Mike wrote.
  
  No, it's not needed.
  
  Because Paypals own policy isn't the problem, it's how they handle chargebacks that's the problem.
  
  Thanks
  
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ps2home

12 years ago

If you purchased a service then generally they will side with the Seller, as PayPal can't investigate services.

But if you are selling a physical item then PayPal will ask seller for tracking information, if this is provided and proves buyer got item then Seller will win. If seller has no tracking details, then buyer will win. Tip: Always send items with tracking postage.

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textbroker

12 years ago

We've found that PayPal has been helpful with disputes for our non-tangible service as well, but their fraud protection isn't reliable. Instead of fighting it out afterwards, we've included checks before orders go into production.

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veheme

12 years ago

I really think they are fair and just. They seem to make use of the time if they will become the mediators because they will research the dispute well.