The F Pattern

15 years ago

Hi Paul,

That's definitely interesting.

If you look at some of the sales
letters written by the more
capable copywriters, you'll see
they usually start with very
short sentences. This grabs
the reader and makes it easier
for them to continue reading.

The better salesletters are
getting read, trust me on
that.

Interesting stuff though,
thanks for highlighting it.

-David Raybould

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ic7 15 years ago

Thanks David. The thing that's great about Nielsen is that he tests everything. And the tests sometimes show us that we were thinking in the completely wrong direction.

I want to start using lists even in my blog posts. Really get things down to the core words that hook people in. Core benefits. I wonder if some readers read and read a long sales letter because they just haven't been reassured by the writer yet.

And if they haven't been reassured, I'm thinking they will probably end up surfing away.

Paul
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David Raybould

15 years ago

Yes, you're right, lists
can be powerful.

Just look at the bullet
points in any successful
online salesletter.

For your own testing,
have you tried Clicktale.com?

It's free, and it lets you
watch your visitor's actions
in real time.

It can be a real eye opener.

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ic7 15 years ago

Hey, thanks for that. Good stuff.

Paul
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MeTellYou

15 years ago

Originally Posted by David Raybould

Yes, you're right, lists
can be powerful.

Just look at the bullet
points in any successful
online salesletter.

For your own testing,
have you tried Clicktale.com?

It's free, and it lets you
watch your visitor's actions
in real time.

It can be a real eye opener.

Thanks for the link man! MUCH appreciated.
Sebastian

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David Raybould

15 years ago

No problem buddy.

It's one of those resources that
every marketer needs, but only
a handful seems to know about.

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ic7 15 years ago

Originally Posted by David Raybould

It's one of those resources that
every marketer needs, but only
a handful seems to know about.

Definitely a good resource, but Nielsen is also using Eyetracking. That's why he comes up with conclusions that are so opposite to what we expect. I really think it's all about testing, and pushing aside assumptions.

Eyetracking Research into Web Usability

Paul
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Anna Johnson

15 years ago

Jakob Nielsen bases his observations on research so I'd say he's pretty much on the money. Also, all the eye-tracking heat maps I've seen (of search engine results pages, web pages and emails) have all supported this thesis.

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ic7

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Anna Johnson

Jakob Nielsen bases his observations on research so I'd say he's pretty much on the money. Also, all the eye-tracking heat maps I've seen (of search engine results pages, web pages and emails) have all supported this thesis.

Hi Anna, good point. That's the amazing thing about testing, it just wipes out assumptions instantly. I think the only way to get an edge and be effective is to constantly challenge assumptions.

Paul

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Tyrus Antas

15 years ago

Jakob Nielsen is awesome, but like everything, you need to test it first on your website/niche to see if it still holds true. A good example of contradictory research is this article about writing for the web and passive voice: Passive Voice Is Redeemed For Web Headings (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

Tyrus

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ic7

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Tyrus Antas

Jakob Nielsen is awesome, but like everything, you need to test it first on your website/niche to see if it still holds true. A good example of contradictory research is this article about writing for the web and passive voice: Passive Voice Is Redeemed For Web Headings (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

Tyrus

Great stuff Tyrus, thanks. I just want to be more effective in what I do, so I challenge the current way of doing things. Another great example from your link:

Words are usually the main moneymakers on a website. Selecting the first 2 words for your page titles is probably the highest-impact ROI-boosting design decision you make in a Web project. Front-loading important keywords trumps most other design considerations.

I see many blogs and sales pages starting with "Do You Want to..." instead of core words that will hook people. When I read stuff, I find myself skipping the first two paragraphs completely and then searching downward for a word that has value to me.

We KNOW most people won't read our salesletters, but we make millions from the 1 or 2 percent that do.

But what if that were 4 Percent? I'm not singling out sales letters, I'm saying blogs and a whole bunch of other content is just not effective. I want to hook people more effectively and I think Nielsen has a lot to offer.

So the question you might want to ask yourself is, do you want your customer to use your website, or do you want him to buy something? The 2 goals are not always compatible.

Fair enough. But Nielsen is also very concerned with writers, writing, and sales. He is definitely concerned with ROI, as you can see from the previous quote: "Words are usually the main moneymakers on a website".

---
Thank you, John. Quite kind of you. :-)

It also hints at why a lot of the more experienced discourage the use of header graphics in most situations.

Jason, very good point. Sometimes I think a product image will make the offer seem more substantial, more "real". But I'm voting for words first because we only have 2 seconds to hook people.

Paul

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ic7

Most People Will Read This Line

Some of This Line

But

But that's it! People are NOT reading your text thoroughly. At least according to Jakob Nielsen. He explains the "F Pattern" like this:

Ok, that means they will read the First Line Completely, SOME of the next line, and then they begin to Scan Vertically down the page. And pretty much don't read what you wrote.

...

Is Nielsen Right or Wrong?

Paul

G'day Paul

Copywriters have been aware of readers skimming, scanning and skipping ahead for ages -- that's why we use headlines, subheads, bullets etc to continually grab their attention.

(And the article is 3 years old, so the F pattern is nothing new either.)

We KNOW most people won't read our salesletters, but we make millions from the 1 or 2 percent that do.

So the question shouldn't be "Is Nielsen Right or Wrong?", but "does it matter?"

Because those patterns show an average reader on an average page.

Put a buyer on my salesletter and all you'll see on those eye scan images is red.

Cheers
Kyle

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imventures

15 years ago

Jakob Nielsen is a guru in usability. Doubt if he could sell his way out of a paperbag. Usability studies how a user might want to use a website, ease of navigation, ease of finding information etc. Sales letters are designed for one thing, to sell. Navigation etc would only distract the customer.

So the question you might want to ask yourself is, do you want your customer to use your website, or do you want him to buy something? The 2 goals are not always compatible.

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TE2 15 years ago

Paul,

This is a very interesting thread and topic.

I have hit the "Thank You" button to show my sincere appreciation for posting it.

Regards,

John
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jasonl70

15 years ago

Anyone who has studied the greats like Dan Kennedy understands how that study applies to long sales copy, and understands that it in no way means that long copy is bad.

It also hints at why a lot of the more experienced discourage the use of header graphics in most situations.

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-Jason

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Dennis Gaskill

15 years ago

I wrote about the F pattern in my first book, way back in 2000. It's based on solid eye tracking research, but the F pattern mostly applies if the viewer doesn't find anything interesting. The pattern is broken quite often, by any item of interest, and if broken, the viewing pattern becomes much more random.

As it pertains to copywriting, if the reader is engaged immediately by the headline, the pattern is usually broken immediately. If the "story" continues to engage the reader, they keep reading.

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Put a buyer on my salesletter and all you'll see on those eye scan images is red.

Not always correct.

I'm a buyer but I *never* read a full sales letter.

I almost always:

1. read heading (if I dont know what the site is about)
2. scroll to the bottom to look for a price if it's more than I want to spend, I leave or
3. scroll back up and read bullets and subheadings.

I *might* read parts of some paragrahs but very rarely read all of any of them.

To me, I prefer letters that tell me what I am buying and nothing else. Much like corporate style product pages.

-g

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Not always correct.

I'm a buyer but I *never* read a full sales letter.

I almost always:

1. read heading (if I dont know what the site is about)
2. scroll to the bottom to look for a price if it's more than I want to spend, I leave or
3. scroll back up and read bullets and subheadings.

I *might* read parts of some paragrahs but very rarely read all of any of them.

To me, I prefer letters that tell me what I am buying and nothing else. Much like corporate style product pages.

-g

I was making a point

I've got heat maps and Clicktale videos of my sites, I know what people actually do. (Very interesting actually.)

Just saying that when you're talking about a well-written salesletter put in front of a hot prospect, the effects/implications of the F pattern have already been taken into account.

Though I gotta say, if you're a buyer and you DON'T read the full salesletter you're asking for trouble.

(It's one of the reasons forced continuity gets such a bad wrap -- the terms are often spelled out clear enough but people simply don't read them.)

And I can't remember the exact stats, but price sensitive buyers such as yourself are in the minority, so it's important to remember you are not your prospect -- just because you want a short to-the-point letter and are somewhat price sensitive, that doesn't mean your prospects are.

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

Though I gotta say, if you're a buyer and you DON'T read the full salesletter you're asking for trouble.

Nope. The seller is if he hides some terms in the middle of a sales letter and doesn't repeat it at checkout.

(It's one of the reasons forced continuity gets such a bad wrap -- the terms are often spelled out clear enough but people simply don't read them.)

No they aren't. Ive seen marketers put them in the middle of a sales letter but do not mention them on or near the checkout. Or they list it but dont let you know its a trial. It's listed as "$0.00".

Most marketers I have seen doing continuity, would get ate up by the FTC for the way they hide it.

just because you want a short to-the-point letter and are somewhat price sensitive

LOL I'm not price sensitive. I'll drop cash on something worth it. See, 9/10 times I know what the product basically is (in the mm niche) before I hit the page and the price tells me if it's worth my time to further investigate or if I could have my programer make it for close to the asking price.

Out of curiosity, have you split test the corp-vs-sales letter? And are your eyeball stats in the "make money" or other niches? I ask because it's hard to believe that Adobe, Ulead, etc. wouldnt stick to the feature type sites if they didn't work better outside the make money niche.

Garrie

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Nope. The seller is if he hides some terms in the middle of a sales letter and doesn't repeat it at checkout.

As a consumer I take it as my responsibility to know what I'm getting myself into.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

No they aren't. Ive seen marketers put them in the middle of a sales letter but do not mention them on or near the checkout. Or they list it but dont let you know its a trial. It's listed as "$0.00".

There is a thread right now in the main forum about Filsaime's BFM. Terms are right there in plain sight. People still don't read them.

Not saying everyone does FC right, obviously they don't, but consumer laziness is ONE of the reasons it gets a bad wrap.

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Out of curiosity, have you split test the corp-vs-sales letter? And are your eyeball stats in the "make money" or other niches?

Define "corp" and "salesletter".

I've written many letters to many markets with different format, tone of voice, style etc... it all depends on the market. You write to your prospect.

And yes I've got stats for many markets, both in and out of the "make money" niche.

I ask because it's hard to believe that Adobe, Ulead, etc. wouldnt stick to the feature type sites if they didn't work better outside the make money niche.

They're largely using a different business model and have a LOT more money to spend on ineffective advertising than your typical small business owner.

Many large corporations use long copy salesletters when it's appropriate

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GarrieWilson

15 years ago

By "corp" I'm talking about the Adode, Ulead type product sites. Like: VideoStudio X2 - Video Editing

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Dan C. Rinnert

15 years ago

I think that usability and sales go hand in hand.
For one thing, you definitely want people to be
able to find the way to place an order easily.
After all, if
your goal is
to sell them
something, you want to drive them
to the sales page and make it as
easy as humanly possible for them
to place an
order and
pay for it
easily. So
usability is
certainly a
very vital
part of
winning the
sale.

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

I think that usability and sales go hand in hand.
For one thing, you definitely want people to be
able to find the way to place an order easily.
After all, if
your goal is
to sell them
something, you want to drive them
to the sales page and make it as
easy as humanly possible for them
to place an
order and
pay for it
easily. So
usability is
certainly a
very vital
part of
winning the
sale.

Lol...Dan that was funny!

Paul, Sorry about the highjack!

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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ic7 15 years ago

The pattern is broken quite often, by any item of interest, and if broken, the viewing pattern becomes much more random.

Interesting. Does the F Pattern get re-established? How does the surfer deal with the rest of the page? By just reading a few words on the left vertically?

I'm a buyer but I *never* read a full sales letter.

Good point, Garrie. Most products I buy are from Warriors. I read a bunch of their posts, decide they are an expert, and then buy their WSO. I haven't bought anything from the standard long sales letters.

Dan, Definite F Pattern there!

Paul
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CocoChanelle

15 years ago

I was just doing some research on sales pages. I read web pages just like this F pattern

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ic7 15 years ago

Originally Posted by CocoChanelle

I was just doing some research on sales pages. I read web pages just like this F pattern

Good stuff. And he takes it even further when he talks about grabbing people's attention with just the first two words. It makes sense because people online are so distracted and have no time.

First 2 Words: A Signal for the Scanning Eye (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

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