The Dangerous Truth About Internet Marketing Culture From Somebody On The "Inside"

20 replies
Before I post this... it must be made crystal clear that I have nothing to sell you.

This isn't a free report given in the hopes of luring you into a sales funnel.

I don't want your e-mail address.

And the only thing you'll find in my signature are two quotes (as opposed to a link that if you visit will make me money).

The first is from Warren Zevon (RIP) who is a favorite rock artist of mine.

The second is Sanskrit. It's pronounced, roughly, "Tat Tvam Asi". Which translates in English to "thou art that". Or more plainly, "you're it".

More on that in a minute.

For now, there is something I'd like to address that nobody seems to be talking about at all.

I'm probably going to miff a lot of people by writing this post... but that's alright. (At least, I hope I do. If not, that means that more people are sleeping than I realized.)

Here's what is being left out of every sales message being delivered today: if you really believe there is some way to improve yourself, somewhere to go that's better than where you are now as a place to arrive at... whether that be having your own business, or making [x] more amount of dollars per year or month, or what have you... you're a sucker. You've fooled yourself and you're setting yourself up for eternal disappointment. You are what the Zen Buddhists call "a mosquito biting an iron bull".

Obviously there is a sense in which we can measure the goings on of our lives and business. And so because we can measure we can point to marked improvements. In the sense that $20,000.00 per month is indeed more than $10,000.00, it's true that you can improve your sales.

It's not in that sense I'm speaking.

Because basic to that point of view is a level of magnification that misses the forest for the trees.

That is to say, it's narrow minded. If that's where you're at, you've got tunnel vision.

And what I aim to do is take off the blinders and show you the whole picture.

What qualifies me to speak like this?

For starters, I'm a professional working copy writer. I was trained by John Carlton and his simple writing system team. In fact, on the front page of simplewritingsystem.com, you'll notice what look like newspaper clippings scattered throughout the page. Each of these is a case study of some student of theirs who has had enough success that they consider it brag-worthy.

They so enjoyed my unlikely story and go-to guy attitude that they listed it in one of these case studies (#152) and decided to interview me about it (I'm not sure if it's still up but it was on some site at one point.)

I enjoy a client list that calls me. I put zero effort into promoting myself at all.(I have no website, portfolio or even a resume. All my business is spread word of mouth and recently I've even received calls from so far away as New Zealand and Thailand asking me to write. I turned down both of these offers.)

One of my clients is a global company that does tens of millions of dollars a year in revenue (this year they're projected to do much more) and has afforded me the opportunity to attend private, Playboy-mansion style parties with gigantic ice sculptures, open bars, world-class dining, dancers, DJs, "fine art", go-go girls, red carpets and free valet parking.

They even fly me around and pay for my seminar fees to go study with internet marketing legends.

I'm not saying any of this to brag and it should be noted that there are many people on this forum who are more "insiders" than I am. I'm telling you my story though to demonstrate a certain level of success that is enough to illustrate my point.

Recently I found a journal I had written when I was about 16.

I had just begun reading "The Gary Halbert Letter" and so I wrote out a goal, in the style of Psycho Cybernetics or anything Napoleon Hill. It read, "I'm living in San Francisco in my own place as a professional copywriter earning [x] dollars per year."

As I write this Warrior Forum post, I'm 23.

The path wasn't exactly a straight line.

The past four and a half years have been spent as a Marine reservist (deployed last year) and working many blue collar jobs.

But a couple of months ago I woke up and realized, "Holy ****, I've arrived."

I was living the dream I wrote out in that journal years ago.

And the truth is... I don't feel much different from how I always felt.

It's like when you're 17... everyone who knows you knows that soon you'll be an "adult" (whatever the hell that means) and so they ask you after your birthday, how does it feel to be 18?

Maybe you humor them, maybe you don't... but you know as you look inside and search around... you don't feel much different than you did the day before.

And there's a sort of let down because, as Clarence Bass says, "a goal achieved is a goal lost."

You're still here.

There's that feeling of "huh.. this is it?"

Now this has been written about in every culture in every way imaginable. It was the chief concern of philosophers like Alan Watts and Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Arguably, it's the reason we have religion at all. (Other than to dominate, control and exploit the masses.)

But in today's culture those are the sorts of things that are either bad form to talk about in public forums in the case of religion, or in the case of philosophy, either a dry, boring academic workout... or else reserved for conversations when people get completely baked on marijuana or some drug like it.

And so instead of religion or philosophy we've dressed up our anxieties into more conventionally acceptable terms like "self-help" or "passion" or "drive" or "career".

But make no mistake about it...

There's zero difference fundamentally between the salvation being chased by churchgoers and offered by religion on the one hand... and the anxiety we feel as a society to get some place called "the good life" on the other. So instead of joining a church you might throw on yourself the burden of becoming an internet marketer. Or a copy writer. Or something like this.

So in that sense, we create a fantasy of what it'll be like when we "arrive". If only we have this business, everything else will be alright. Or if we can make enough money to buy a house and a car and all these things, maybe make our friends jealous or finally get that one-up on society, we'll be okay. It'll all have been worth it. In this internet marketing culture, the manifestations of this are really ridiculous sometimes. I mean it boils down to increases not just in dollars per milisecond, but things like click through ratios, unique visitors... it's overwhelming really.

You know, we have our heaven or paradise in our minds eye that we're constantly chasing.

The whole world has gone absolutely bat **** with this sort of thing.

You have self-help societies now. People teaching "the secret" or how to think and grow rich or Wallace Wattles' science of growing rich or NLP.

I'm here to tell you that it won't make a lick of difference.

You could make more money than even makes sense to your currently broke mind as early as tomorrow... and you still won't arrive.

Research people who win the lotto.

Most go broke in a shockingly short amount of time.

Or watch VH1 Behind the Music. "Success", the way we define it at large, could easily be seen as more of a curse than a blessing.

Before this post goes on though, let it be known... I'm not preaching. I'm not saying anyone ought to be a certain way. It could just as well be that this particular game... of trying to get somewhere... is your own personal preference. And to get lost in our human dramas is an awfully delightful pleasure I wouldn't dream of denying anybody.

The idea I'm putting forward is simply this: that if red is all you know, you don't know it's red. You only know so when you have other colors to put next to it.

That is to say that opposites arise mutually. For every black, there's a white, for every up a down and for every in an out.

To try to climb up as a way of getting rid of down we immediately recognize as silly. In fact, you only defeat yourself and make things worse because the higher up you climb the more pronounced down becomes (and the further you have to fall.)

And so in the same way... if you really believe that you can climb up the internet marketing ladder and it will improve you somehow and solve all your problems, you're really lost. You've taken the bait in a BIG way and you're in perfect position for a very rude awakening.

You'll have all sorts of new problems and obligations. You'll be scared out of your mind because the life of an entrepreneur is about as insecure as they get. Your schedule will become much different from all your friends in the "real world" who have "real jobs". (Which usually means "real drag".)

So don't believe the smoke and mirrors, friends.

All the people you see putting on seminars, teaching people how to live their version of the "good life"... they're exactly the same quaking little mess you are. (And they've got happy trigger fingers for sending their latest installment of Operation:Moneysuck into your inbox.)

Don't you believe anyone who tells you different. All the good guys will fess up to this. Life doesn't suddenly stop being life once you've "made it".

That's just the point of this post. There is nothing to be made. How do you measure "making it"?

You'll see all these guys teaching will usually have something to say about setting goals. Here's how to set a goal for [x] dollars per month. Here's what you can do to scale it up to this much. And so on. Ad infinitum.

If you can't see how that is a dead-end pattern, then you're probably not ready to read this sort of message anyway. You've got some more bruises to suffer through before you're ready.

Then once you really get into it, after so many years, people will have masterminds for health too. Now, our bodies are starting to fall apart. So it's not just enough to make a gazillion dollars an hour, we've got to stretch this life out as far as we can... we've got to live 100 years!

So now you're on Mercola.com reading about how coconut oil will reduce your blood pressure, improve your skin and in general make you a better person... and you're doing Tai Chi or yoga or some other discipline to improve yourself (which is ironic, because both of these disciplines, especially yoga, have nothing to do whatsoever with improving yourself. In fact, the first of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali reads "Yoga is the cessation of revolutions of the mind." Meaning that efforts toward self-improvement are immediate proof you've missed the point entirely.)

Madness.

I'll tell you the secret to getting rid of all this. Or rather, I'll allude to it. I can't really speak about it explicitly because it is an implicit truth. I've got the problem of the Zen teacher who's really just pointing to the moon. The problem is most people end up staring at the finger, and as Bruce Lee put it, "miss all that heavenly glory."

Or to use a more common analogy, they walk up the sign post instead of following the sign.

Earlier I mentioned in my signature a Sanskrit quote.

Tat Tvam Asi.

"Thou art that."

In modern language, "you're it."

What this means is... when you become awake to this truth... you realize the you that is responsible for taking care of your chores, fulfilling your responsibilities, and who spends your waking hours fantasizing about where you ought to be... isn't the "whole" you.

You begin to get the sensation that the "me" who you call whatever your name is... rather than just being a little ego trapped in a bag of skin... is completely arbitrary as an identity.

That is to say... that in the same way you won't find meridian lines out on the ocean when you're sailing... in the real world, [your name here] doesn't exist.

It's just a reference point. A symbol. A trap of language coupled with, as Alan Watts once put it, "a chronic sense of muscular strain." (He was talking about how we identify with our bodies as a location in space being here and now.)

When you get this... when it really clicks for you... it's plain as day that the same you who answers when someone calls your name is also responsible for growing your hair, regulating your blood pressure, replacing your skin and nails, beating your heart and all of whatever is going on in the place you call here and now.

In common language we say that these things "just happen". Or when asked, how does your hair grow... we don't feel responsible for this as much as we do finishing our homework.

But this is the result of social conditioning. Nothing more. In truth, it is you who is doing all of it.

When you feel that, you understand that the same you who beats your heart is shining the furthest star in a galaxy yet to be discovered. This is what the Hindus mean when they say "Thou Art That."

You're it.

That's the big secret, if it can be said there is such a thing.

If you want a secret, rather than that dreadful DVD that's become so popular, filling everyone's head and hearts with hopes for a nameless genie that will happily (albeit slowly sometimes) fulfill their every whim.... this is the secret.

It's tricky though because it's so damn obvious and fundamental we miss it.

What I'm pointing to is right here and now. It's just... what's going on. There is nowhere else than here and no when else than now. Never has been, never will be. You can't get away from it, and you can't help but be it.

As the Taoists say, "The Tao that can be deviated from is not the Tao."

But we've hypnotized ourselves into thinking there's somewhere else we ought to be.

And if that's the game you want to play... if you'd like to remain sleeping... that's your prerogative.

Like I said, I'm not preaching. I'm not saying you ought to go one way or another. But to make an educated decision it's best you have the facts laid out in front of you. So I'm reporting the state of affairs. Here it is. That really, there is no problem to life and you don't need to join a monthly group charging you $99.00 billed to your Visa to find a solution to a problem that isn't there.

You can choose to keep buying new memberships, new e-books, new money-making courses, new offers... you know you'll never run out? The more you buy the more will be made available to you (if for no other reason than most smart marketers know that the real money is in the back-end). You can keep following this never-ending rabbit hole in pursuit of "the good life".

Or... you can wake up.

You can see what's really going on and get with it.

When you do, you'll see that any journey you could ever take could only ever possibly lead to right here.

It's in this spirit that the Taoist sage Lao Tzu wrote, "To know the whole world without ever leaving home."

This right now is as good and as bad as its ever going to get, because there's nothing else.

And that's liberation, in Buddhist phrasing. For most Westerners, they'll be more at home with a term like "salvation"... but I hesitate to use that because it's a bit muddy with a lot of Christian dogma.

For now though, it'll do the trick.

The real bonus is that once you wake up to this you see that it's not serious. It all becomes a game. And paradoxically, you become much better at it. You get it by giving it up. Because you free up a hell of a lot of energy when you're not constantly grinding your gears trying to help life along.

So this is the trick then... to learn to go with the stream instead of against it. To hoist a sail and ride the wind instead of wearing yourself out.

Maybe delving into Hindu mysticism is a bit heavy for your typical internet marketing forum... but for those that it resonates with it'll be valuable.

And to those who realize that this entrepreneurship thing was suppose to be a way to get liberated from the rat race, not just find a new track to run, this will be an important message.

Peace.
#culture #dangerous #inside #internet #marketing #truth
  • Profile picture of the author Karomesis
    I enjoy a bit of Eastern philosophy as much as the next guy, but I prefer Sun Tzu as opposed to Lao

    "In difficult ground press on, in encircled ground devise stratagems, in death ground fight"

    I'm also a HUGE fan of Donatien Alphonse otherwise known as Marquis De Sade

    "My manner of thinking so you say, cannot be approved? Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others"

    and the ever classic "All universal moral principles are idle fancies" (there is no such thing as universal morality and hence all morality is subjective and based on the whims and fancies of this or that culture, state, religion, whatever.)


    But and interesting post, please make sure to send me an invite when you attend one of those parties full of wanton debauchery and hedonistic delights.:rolleyes:

    P.S. I want to live a looooooooooonnnnngggg time. 100 years is nothing compared to where we'll be at by the end of this century. My grandchildren will have lifespan expectancies in the hundreds of years. And my sig file is a non profit so I make nothing if anyone clicks on it, I just want to raise awareness that aging is not the foe we once thought it was.
    Signature

    Coming soon....FULL SCALE AUTOMATION.
    "Set it...Forget it" site building and SEO software.

    any ? please hit me up anytime karomesis12@gmail.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1587128].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author josephkerr
      Thanks for the reply.

      I'm not particularly thrilled at the idea of a long life... sometimes I feel old already, but I wouldn't condemn anybody for it. If you could live a happy hundreds of years, then cheers to that.

      You could acquire a hell of a lot of skill in that time and I wonder what sort of musicians we'd have if they had hundreds of years to practice.

      P.S. Consider yourself invited. I'll pick up the first round. Hope alcohol meshes well with extreme bouts of longevity.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1587428].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author wkly10k
        Not sure if I totally get this.... I am interested in eastern philosophy..... are you saying to stop trying to make a lot of money and to just find something you enjoy and go with that and the money will follow? Is ambition bad, is not necesity the mother of invention.....
        THANX!!
        Jerris
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1589904].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author josephkerr
          Jerris, thanks for your reply.

          What I'm saying is that whether or not the money follows, for the person that the Taoists call "the man of virtue"... it's alright either way.

          I'll tell you what I mean with a story.

          Once upon a time in China, there was a farmer.

          And one day the farmer's horse ran away. To which his neighbors all apologized and consoled the farmer for his loss and told him what a poor misfortune it was.

          To which the farmer said, "Maybe."

          The following week, the horse returned and brought back with it many wild horses.

          To which the farmer's neighbors all congratulated him on this good fortune and told him what a wonderful surprise this new wealth was.

          To which the farmer said, "Maybe."

          The farmer's son then began breaking in the horses and on one particular wild horse who wouldn't be tamed, was bucked off and broke his leg.

          To which the farmer's neighbors all came around and consoled him and said how sad it was that this happened to his son.

          To which the farmer said, "Maybe."

          The following week, there came the recruiting officers for the military to draft the young men of the village for the war. But they didn't draft the farmer's son because he was broken.

          To which the farmer's neighbors came around and told the farmer how lucky he was that his son was safe from war.

          To which the farmer replied, "Maybe."

          This is the Taoist attitude toward life, and the real meaning of yin and yang.

          Yin implies yang. You can't have one without the other. Not in the sense of some moralistic, well if you've got some yin you ought to have some yang like you ought to have some vegetables at dinner because it's good for you or something like that. But rather... in the sense that if you chop a magnet in half, you don't have a north pole in your left hand and a south pole in your right.

          In exactly the same way you can't sand away the tails side of a coin in the hopes you'll only have heads, you can't hope to have only pleasant experience or only "success" as opposed to misery or "failure" without getting rid of all of it together.

          And I know from personal experience in my own dopey mistakes... and from working behind the curtain on projects that, let's be honest, exploit this craving in a lot of people... it is this very delusion that keeps people trapped and chasing something that will never come.

          So in answering your question... I'm not prescribing a particular course of action to take.

          If you want to make lots of money, make lots of money.

          If you don't, that's fine too.

          But if you're caught up in a serious struggle because you've got some idea that once you make it, then dammit life will be alright... you've missed the point.

          And so I'm sharing a certain attitude toward life which I enjoy and I'm presenting it in exactly the same spirit an artist paints a painting. I'm not trying to convert anyone to eastern philosophy and in fact, as an old Zen master once said, "the sound of the rain needs no translation."

          I'm just using eastern philosophy as a way of illustrating my point, and illustrating my point at all, because I find it fun to do.

          If along the way it resonates with other people who like it, and maybe I save you all some money and heartache and ease the tension in life a bit... then whooopeee!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1590148].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Richgirl
    Wow - that was one hell of a thread! Partly due to the picture of the regency man in a white wig, and mostly due to the fact that your wisdom sounds like an old man looking back over his life, (no offence!), I nearly fell off my chair when I read that you are 23? Really??? 23? Wow! I'm an 'old head on young shoulders' but you make me feel about 5!

    I've been both poor and rich, and inbetween, and whilst rich was definitely easier on the soul (less struggle) - you are completely right about the fact that you take you with you wherever you go, and ultimately it doesn't matter anyway, you are 'good enough' as you are, and the sooner you accept this, the less drama and stress there is in your life. And if other people don't see that way, that is their choice to deal with, not yours. (I think this is what you were saying!).

    Seriously, you are an amazing guy, I can only imagine what you will be like in later years - stunning I should think! So nice to have a thread about living conciously in the forum, it is so easy to get overwhelmed beyond belief.

    Also, I have been to quite a lot of seminars, and met up with the speakers etc after, gone for drinks etc with them, and you are totally right, they have exactly the same insecurities etc as the rest of us. The only difference I would say is that they believe in themselves strongly (i.e. listen to their hearts) and are very focused. But they still have the same doubts and fears as the rest of us.

    Thank you for this inspiring message, PM'd you!

    Shell
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1589508].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author josephkerr
    Thanks Shell, you flatter me. ; D

    Also, great name! One of my best friends and favorite people in the world is named Shell.

    And it's a big relief that you got the message. I was somewhat worried, reading it over, because to a certain perspective it could seem to be a sort of gloomy message at first you know... there's nothing we can do to improve?

    But you seem to have got it right away. There's nothing we need to improve! So uh... let's party like it's New Year's Eve 2011!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1589776].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Maddi
    Sometimes you are lucky enough to have someone else articulate your inner thoughts and you feel somewhat relieved that you are not the only human being that feels this way.
    I feel like such a guy who is lucky right now.

    Although I must add that sometimes you have to pursue the material wealth because of the bonds that you are tied in in terms of family and friends and the society you live in. However, I do feel like I would be a monk of some sort if I didn't have certain people's expectations tied with me or If didn't have to actually support people financially. It is kind of depressing for some people though like you said about the doom and gloom that If everything is at it is and if you are IT then why the pursuit of happiness and wealth. The room for improvement and development just seems to shrink to oblivion and nothing really matters for a minute. But then comes the systematic conditioning of the world we live in.

    The goals and accomplishments suddenly become important and you become part of the system. You become a part of a never ending chase of who you want to be and not who you are. And the complexities of society and material wealth mix up with your philosophy of life and competition to survive overwhelms everything.

    And like you said

    It's tricky though because it's so damn obvious and fundamental we miss it.

    Very true indeed.

    But I do get what you said. Thanks for a post that is away from the norm.

    Regards,
    Maddi.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1589899].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author OzDesign
    Thanks for the inspiration!

    I know how it was like going through materials and ebooks and course etc and somehow another guru still trying to tell me I needed his/her latest gadgets as they were promoted as the "missing link" to my success.

    I basically had to unsubscribe a lot of those mailing lists from gurus and focus on what i'm doing.

    Another good thing to do is to stop watching news! The more I watched news the more I thought the world was in deep trouble......
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1589988].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Richgirl
    Maybe I do flatter you, Joseph, but only because its true... I don't give praise unless its due! You are definitely very advanced 'in the head' for your age, if you don't watch it, when you are old you will be Gandhi or something!!

    Thanks for the compliment re my name, actually I changed it from one I didn't like, so when you said you aren't your name, I knew exactly what you meant, because you would not believe the fuss the people made when I changed it! I just felt, if it doesn't resonate with who you are, why not just change it? Seemed simple to me....

    This is a very interesting post, I am SO glad I joined the WF now, its so much more than just an IM forum! Its a family!

    Thanks again, for making me think!

    Shell
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1590272].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AffiliateKungfu
      Oh my God, I just love this wonderful thread above any other!

      It's contains such a priceless cache of advanced 'tools' as it were, and all at our disposal viz. real, living organisms exuding core teachings of Eastern and other philosophies, Metaphysics and Science too! What an abundance of truth for one and all to savour.

      Let me tell something in the simplest of terms: all this is Real!

      One must enjoy!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1592528].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author smoke.sessions
    This is absolutely right. The money follows your passion, or at least some type of results do. Any blog that I've ever opened went to hell, but when I opened my design inspiration blog and put my mind to it, it's been the only successful blog that I've ever had. It's not necessarily just money involved, there's other things that make you feel good.
    Signature

    PM me if you need a custom WP plugin or a website built!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1592899].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author NavySeals91
      The fundamental paradox in which success happens is not desiring the success. It is not being attached to the outcome.

      It is opening up awareness and taking life as it comes. It's about giving blindly.

      It certainly does not happen as a result of joining a mastermind group/worshipping these marketers. Most of these marketers wind up exploiting the individual whether directly or indirectly. It does not mean on cannot learn from them, but the following of them is the problem.

      Individuals who believe they are not complete without the marketer is the problem. Believing his method or item is a necessity for success n thus happiness is the problem. Believing monetary success will bring about happiness is the the problem.

      Building character, integrity, helps with happiness --compassion and love hold the keys. Being grateful for all that is given to you is the secret of fulfilment. Realizing everything is a blessing and that everything is a miracle will bring about wonder and happiness. Establishing a connection with the creator will bring about happiness whatever name for the creator one holds or doesn't hold.

      Step back and look at the planet as a whole. See that us humans are a part of the world and not the world. Life goes on regardless of whether or not us humans exist. If we all went extinct millions of life forms would still thrive. Putting awareness outside of one's self helps immensley.

      Whether you find mysticism to be true or hokey, the principles make sense and can be applied without intending to manifest powers.

      You say you are from the Bay Area Joseph? As am I.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1605362].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
    Before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment you chop wood and carry water. May this tread attract more satsanga!

    Cheers,
    Steve S.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1605695].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author wkly10k
      As I read and re-read this thread I get the feeling that there is a growing number of folks that seem to 'get it', yet we (the world) seems to still kill off our outstanding folks..... when John Lennon wrote his famous song 'Imagine' it made an impression on so many folks, but look what happened to him..... years ago the book 'The Celestine Prophecy' literaly jumped off the shelf at me at a flea market, I guess I was ready for the message....... now I come across this thread...things happen for a reason..... I belive the universe speaks to us all, if we just take the time to listen.....I guess its hard to listen to the universe through the incessant chatter of all the 'media' and commercialism of every facet of life...... this thread is so coool......
      THANX!!
      Jerris
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1610637].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author josephkerr
        Thanks for the encouragement everybody. I'm glad you're all enjoying this discussion.

        Jerris, you bring up an interesting point. It's just speculation on my part, but I think it's educated and at least somewhat close to the truth... that it's because the sort of experience Zen points to can't be understood by intellectualizing. You probably already know that.

        The reason I'm pointing it out though is because to the people that hear what sounds to them like all this esoteric mumbo jumbo about how "the sound of the rain needs no translation" and all this... who haven't yet come to their senses (I mean that literally, not as an elitist thing)... what might be called 'chatter about enlightenment' can seem to be undermining their world view.

        It's easily perceived as a threat by the uninitiated. It makes sense that it is. It nullifies any picture of what life ought to be that you could ever come up with. And we like clinging to those pictures.

        Lucias, on another thread, made me laugh out loud by reminding me that if rewind the clocks a couple hundred years, we'd both be burning for heresy because we had challenged the establishment.

        He's probably right.

        In truth, the people who are speaking from the point of view I'm coming from in this thread aren't speaking with the intent of threatening anybody. They know that there's nothing to threaten them with, and more basically, there's nobody to threaten. But in contrast to life as a grim pilgrimage with a serious purpose... when people suddenly begin to gyrate their hips to music and start to color outside the lines just to see what happens because they're not attached... it's very threatening to the ego of everybody who was taking the lines seriously. (John Lithgow from "Footloose" anybody?)

        Which isn't to demonize the serious people. They can't help it. Just like when you ask somebody a question, you can't help but impose the frame of student/master. It is the very act of asking the question that makes the master appear and turns us into students.

        This is the role though of the Bodhisattva in Buddhism. Or the joker or court jester in medieval culture. Or, and here's where I really might catch some flack but it's basically true... the messiah in the Hebrew religions (I'm counting Christianity and Islam here as eventualities of Judaism). To... wake up and return to wake up your friends.

        But because the world is the way it is... the person who wakes up and has a good enough heart or a healthy enough sense of humor to start waking other people up, as D.T. Suzuki put it, is probably "going to hell for this. But it's alright to go to hell sometimes if it means helping other people." (I'm paraphrasing here, the exact quote is buried in a book I don't have the wherewithal to mine through right now.)

        So uh... hopefully it is about that time that we see a revolution of sorts on consciousness... that'd be interesting. And it is sad that the Lenons of the world are uninvited to the party rather often. But really, there's no problem either way because... like Steve said very well above... "before enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water".

        Peace!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1611570].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author clwest
          What an interesting post.

          In my 20's I was philosophical -

          In my 30's I was practical

          Now in my 40's, I really don't care about what others think (guess I am a family centric Jerk!) It is the excesses in life that create problems.

          Success is not a destination, it is the journey and what you learned along the way. However, the money does make things real nice

          And here is something to chew on: I know miserable multi-millionaires and happy Joe Lunch Buckets. Who lives the better life?

          Last thing to remember, no one gets out of this life alive!
          Signature

          Ohhh, Panini

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1612302].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Banned
          Technically speaking, there's no absolute truth to anything.

          Just different people, with different perspectives. Some people like practicing Zen, other people like making Yen.

          I think it's important for people to have significant goals to be aiming for. Why? Because that's partly how we build character and self-esteem. As Thomas Carlyle documented:

          "A man without a goal is like a ship without a rudder."

          You may feel safe in the harbour thinking you don't have to do anything. You may argue that tranquil water can be found everywhere.

          Some people, however, are doing what they're "supposed" to be doing.

          They're sailing "The 7 Seas" learning important and influential things. They know that the more they travel from "A" to "B" gathering knowledge and experience, the more "actualized" they become, even if some of their "contextual happiness" is fleeting.

          So, by all means, improve financially. Because that contributes to your happiness, and the happiness of others. (Including your family.) And, by all means, improve socially, because that also contributes to your happiness.

          Heck, improve every area of your life, and make the World that much more of a better place for everyone.

          Enter uncharted territory safe in the knowledge that you can learn from everything. You will be a more advanced version of yourself, if you keep on improving. And, you'll reach a different version of "happiness," if you like.

          I'm not saying complete X, Y and Z to be happy. I'm saying be happy and take pride in accomplishing what's important to you. You can be "enlightened" and sit on a park bench all day like Eckart Tolle, if you like, but that's got to get boring at some point.

          Fundamentally, after success, people may still be the same (and that's good), however, with every goal accomplished, and every shore explored, they become that much more "powerful." Then, they can help that much more people, if they choose to.

          Personal development is a wonderful thing. And, that's what I like about Joseph's post. For me, it's about a person who's evolved "spiritually" and has learned a great deal about life.

          That's something I aspire to, by the way. So thank you for the inspiration, Joseph.

          I'm going to keep on improving personally and professionally until I'm completely, completely, happy. Which will probably be never, and that's a good thing.

          As I learned from someone, "You can't outlive your evolution." I believe we were created with unlimited potential, and almost anything is possible. (Providing you know where you're heading.)

          That's about as close to "philosophy" as you'll get from me. And, as you can see, it's not particularly good. (Heh.)
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1616254].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author josephkerr
            Sheesh. Great post ZigZag!

            This is my favorite: "Some people like practicing Zen, other people like making Yen." Haha! Very well put.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1616555].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Banned
              Well at least someone got something out of it. (Haha.)
              Signature
              "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1616573].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author UnstoppableJoy
    FANTASTIC POST AND THREAD

    Judging one's success by the opinions of others is insane. Same for judging your success on financial rewards.

    The most creative and amazing minds on this planet have not necessarily been defined as success while alive.

    Folks hated Edgar Allen Poe. Only a few people showed up at his funeral. he was considered a drugged out bum

    Of course now - everyone realizes he was (one of) the greatest writers who ever lived.

    He invented the detective story. He wrote the most frightening horror stories ever - and the action was mostly in the MIND of the reader cause he put you into the mind of the protagonist.

    Then he turns around and writes the one of the greatest pieces of poetry ever written "The Raven"

    Yet they treated him like crap and said he was crazy while he lived

    Welcome to planet earth. Sometimes the price of following one's inner voice can be expensive - but not nearly as expensive as following popular opinion.

    Follow one's heart and say "yes" as often as you can to life and an adventure will unfold that will knock your socks off.

    "Get deeper and deeper into yes. Say yes to each and every thing. Say yes to good and bad, to day and night, to summer and winter. Say yes to success and to failure. Say yes to life and to death. Forget everything else; just remember one word, yes, and it can transform your whole being. It can become a radical change, a revolution. " Osho
    Signature

    Ed Osworth - The Joy Professor - Author of "Unstoppable Joy - A Happier You in 12 Simple Steps"
    $15.95 at Amazon or get Your Free Copy at http://JoyForFree.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1612444].message }}

Trending Topics