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Boy disrespects the police by being mentally handicapped, 20 cops taser and beat the hell out of him

by bravo75
51 replies
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DAYTON, Ohio (CN) - Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.

https://www.courthousenews.com/2011/06/29/37770.htm
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Yay!!!

    Another chance for you to say bad things about America(ns)!

    Another chance for you to stir things up.

    Hooray!!!

    Bravo!!!

    Hooray!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Eh? When have I ever said anything bad about America? I love the States. Have you been drinking tonight, Michael?

      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Yay!!!

      Another chance for you to say bad things about America(ns)!

      Another chance for you to stir things up.

      Hooray!!!

      Bravo!!!

      Hooray!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Eh? When have I ever said anything bad about America? I love the States. Have you been drinking tonight, Michael?
        LOL

        I think it was an earlier post you made that made me think that. No matter, it's all good.

        Considering how I responded, I think your response to my response was quite measured...and I appreciate that.

        All the best,
        Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Yay!!!

        Another chance for you to say bad things about America(ns)!

        Another chance for you to stir things up.

        Hooray!!!

        Bravo!!!

        Hooray!!!
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Eh? When have I ever said anything bad about America? I love the States. Have you been drinking tonight, Michael?
        Actually I would have been outraged no matter where this took place.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I've been of the same mind as Michael - you do seem to find the most outrageous offenses to post and all seem to be US based. Doesn't anything bad happen in the UK?

          This particular story, though, is horrible. I know Dayton - my son has an office at Wright Patterson AFB and lives about 45 minutes from that city. It's not a rough town but it's had serious economic problems for many years. Not a place I'd want to live.

          I used to view tasers as a much safer alternative to guns - but I think the view of them as "safe" (questionable) has led many police to use them without thinking about it. In previous years, this cop would not have pulled a gun but would have physically restrained someone. The taser makes it too easy to take someone down. i really feel for the kid and his mother.

          Perhaps what is needed is to hold police to the same investigation when a taser is used that they face when a gun is fired.
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          • Profile picture of the author bravo75
            I don't go looking for these things to piss people off. I surf the web and stumble upon things. If I find something interesting, I post it here.

            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I've been of the same mind as Michael - you do seem to find the most outrageous offenses to post and all seem to be US based. Doesn't anything bad happen in the UK?
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    DAYTON, Ohio (CN) - Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.

    https://www.courthousenews.com/2011/06/29/37770.htm
    The police in this case don't seem to be too bright themselves. Re:
    "Jesse and his mom seek damages from the city and the two lead officers, for false imprisonment, false arrest, malicious prosecution, assault, battery, excessive use of force, infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy.
    They are represented by Richard Boucher."
    I hope that they are well-compensated for the abuse they suffered at the hands of thugs in uniforms. I'd like to point out, in all fairness, that such meat-headed fools are not representative of the police any more than a postal worker who goes berserk is representative of postal workers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    These cops, all of those, that participated should be suspended without pay pending further investigation and the 2 lead defendants that beat the kid should not only be fired, but thrown in jail and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Then I hope that the mom and son win all that they ask for. This is ridiculous. I know that it isn't representative of all cops, but this is taking it to the furthest extreme possible. Especially if it's true that the one officer already knew he was mentally challenged. Stupid fool.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    There's definitely a lot of really unforgivable crap going on right now. We need to know these things.

    There were over 300 people killed by tasers as of a year or two ago - I haven't looked up any recent figures, but it is clear that cops are getting more aggressive and we need to know that. Blackwater trained cops aren't your garden variety neighborhood cops. They are more dangerous sometimes than criminals you will run into. I hope to never live in a town with a Blackwater trained cop on its force.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      There's definitely a lot of really unforgivable crap going on right now. We need to know these things.

      There were over 300 people killed by tasers as of a year or two ago - I haven't looked up any recent figures, but it is clear that cops are getting more aggressive and we need to know that. Blackwater trained cops aren't your garden variety neighborhood cops. They are more dangerous sometimes than criminals you will run into. I hope to never live in a town with a Blackwater trained cop on its force.
      How would you even know?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I'm not sure cops are more aggressive - I think they are lazier.

        If you take a guy down physically - it hurts. You hit your knee on the concrete or take an elbow in the ribs or pull a muscle. What looks tough on TV hurts in real life even when you are in great shape.

        Don't know about other places but many cops I see have guts that look like they're six months gone.

        Why take a chance on getting bruised up when you can just reach for a handy taser? ...and that to me is the problem.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I'm not sure cops are more aggressive - I think they are lazier.

          If you take a guy down physically - it hurts. You hit your knee on the concrete or take an elbow in the ribs or pull a muscle. What looks tough on TV hurts in real life even when you are in great shape.

          Don't know about other places but many cops I see have guts that look like they're six months gone.

          Why take a chance on getting bruised up when you can just reach for a handy taser? ...and that to me is the problem.
          That could be, but it is usually safer to tase someone than fight with them. Many a cop has lost his life when a suspect has wrestled away his gun and shot him. Suspects have lost their life trying to get the cops gun as well.

          I'm not saying that in defense of the cops in this instance, just saying there's a reason for using a taser other than laziness. On the whole, it saves lives and bruises.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            That could be, but it is usually safer to tase someone than fight with them. Many a cop has lost his life when a suspect has wrestled away his gun and shot him. Suspects have lost their life trying to get the cops gun as well.

            I'm not saying that in defense of the cops in this instance, just saying there's a reason for using a taser other than laziness. On the whole, it saves lives and bruises.

            If the story is true AT ALL about what they told neighbors, their ganging up, not actually being provoked, or "disrespect", then the cops can not have ANY defense! NONE! Was any of the above true? GREAT, THROW THEM IN JAIL!!!!!!! HECK, if they so much as ARRESTED the kid, they should be thrown in jail. Granted, for an arrest, maybe MINIMUM security for days.

            A taser should be used ONLY if there is a LEGITIMATE reason for an arrest, and they can't subdue the subject, or the person is a DANGER that they can't otherwise handle. A taser is ONE SMALL STEP below a GUN! Too many feel that it is 100% safe, which is *******WRONG*******! Too many feel it is ok to use them frequently!

            How would YOU like to be tasered for getting out of the car on a strange street at 1am in the morning? I was once in a situation where that might have happened to ME iif the cop had a taser. He DID make it clear that he almost shot me, FOR NO REASON!

            As for tasering? NOBODY knows how it can affect people. What they DO know is that it can kill nerves, and other tissue. They ALSO know that tasers cause the person to have an instant lack of control and trigger muscles. HECK, that is what they DEMONSTRATE, and the REASON they are used! They ALSO know that the body works on several feedback loops of a sort. If they are disrupted past a certain point, the feedback won't happen, and the system can SHUT DOWN! They use this to KILL people in ELECTRIC CHAIRS!

            BTW other proven FACTS about tasering! HEAR me out, this will sound ludicrous, and I will PROVE it! You can die of internal bleeding because of hemorrhaging, get aids, die because of loss of blood, get a concussion, or nearly anything else. OK, HOW? If you are taking warfarin, are a hemophiliac, or have another bleeding disorder, an internal injury, caused by hitting the ground hard, falling on something big, etc... can cause internal bleeding. If you fall on an infected needle, you can get aids. Your head can hit the ground, or something else, and you can get a concussion. JUST THAT should be reason to use it SPARINGLY!

            People HAVE had ALL the above things with seizures, and a seizure is basically a short circuit inside the brain that works much like tasering. SAME PRINCIPLE!

            Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      There's definitely a lot of really unforgivable crap going on right now. We need to know these things.

      There were over 300 people killed by tasers as of a year or two ago - I haven't looked up any recent figures, but it is clear that cops are getting more aggressive and we need to know that. Blackwater trained cops aren't your garden variety neighborhood cops. They are more dangerous sometimes than criminals you will run into. I hope to never live in a town with a Blackwater trained cop on its force.

      I'll take a battle hardened cop over a cop raised in 'Bent Elbow' Kansas anyday.

      They are by far more liable to panic in a given situation in the big city. (Bent Elbow cops)

      Panic and resort to unnecessary reaction..I've seen it first hand in LA. a few times.

      I've always said that experienced 'hoods' make the best cops.

      And that, is reality.

      No amount of 'training' beats experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    DAYTON, Ohio (CN) - Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teenager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says.

    https://www.courthousenews.com/2011/06/29/37770.htm
    WHY do they say the mentally handicapped person was tasered? The most mentally deficient ones are obviously those that tasered. THEY should be locked up in a maximum security prison with prisoners they arrested, and left there to ROT for 20 years!

    The IDEA that they think that they should be given so much freedom to instill fear and injuries is TOTALLY against the raison d'etre of their jobs! Their job is to get RID of such people!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    I wish they used tasers more often in England.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Man, TALK ABOUT REFLEXES! The guy was as good as arrested the moment he ran. Of course, the whole thing was probably just a show. I think MOST officers in normal duty with vests conceal them.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Tasers should NOT be used on humans.
    Steve hit the nail on the head. The potential for damage to the individual far outweighs the need for such methods.
    Kay is right.Tasers make it much easier for the officers to take someone down with little or no effort. Doesn't seem to matter what damage it does to the individual.
    As Sal said, there have been many deaths attributed to tasers. Needless deaths.
    Tasers should not be used on people. The CNS (central nervous system) was not made to handle such shocks.
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    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      I don't agree with that. If some deranged meth head goes on a wobbler, he needs to be taken down, period. A taser is a better option than a gun in some circumstances.

      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Tasers should NOT be used on humans.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    US centric post, though it MAY apply to your country:

    BTW everyone talks about how hard it is on the cops. Some are little GIRLS practically. OK, age wise, maybe they are women, but sometimes they really are little girls, short, meek, high voice, long hair, etc.... Anyway, even those little girls have no right to say "It's too hard".... HECK, they have LESS right than anyone else! They fought to get the laws changed so they could take the job. But EVERYONE takes it knowing that they are paid BECAUSE it is so dangerous. GRANTED, they aren't paid a LOT in direct cash. In the 80s, I saw a sign at an LAPD office saying recruits were making around $45K. NOT a lot, but respectable. It WAS well above average income. And they get LOTS of benefits!

    I once had a law teacher that at one point spoke about how the WOMEN'S LIB movement made the world LESS SAFE! In part, because of the changes to the police department. Not many women could meet the old standard, so they REDUCED IT! A small teenage girl could now be a POLICE OFFICER! And more MEN could join ALSO! AND, if given a choice between a good male, or a bad female, they generally had to pick the worst candidate to meet goals! So they were LESS INTIMIDATING, and MORE LIKELY TO SHOOT! Obviously, criminals have to try to defeat that. Why a person would want to go where they are not wanted and try to do what they really can't, risking their health and comfort is BEYOND me!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      US centric post, though it MAY apply to your country:

      BTW everyone talks about how hard it is on the cops. Some are little GIRLS practically. OK, age wise, maybe they are women, but sometimes they really are little girls, short, meek, high voice, long hair, etc.... Anyway, even those little girls have no right to say "It's too hard".... HECK, they have LESS right than anyone else! They fought to get the laws changed so they could take the job. But EVERYONE takes it knowing that they are paid BECAUSE it is so dangerous. GRANTED, they aren't paid a LOT in direct cash. In the 80s, I saw a sign at an LAPD office saying recruits were making around $45K. NOT a lot, but respectable. It WAS well above average income. And they get LOTS of benefits!

      I once had a law teacher that at one point spoke about how the WOMEN'S LIB movement made the world LESS SAFE! In part, because of the changes to the police department. Not many women could meet the old standard, so they REDUCED IT! A small teenage girl could now be a POLICE OFFICER! And more MEN could join ALSO! AND, if given a choice between a good male, or a bad female, they generally had to pick the worst candidate to meet goals! So they were LESS INTIMIDATING, and MORE LIKELY TO SHOOT! Obviously, criminals have to try to defeat that. Why a person would want to go where they are not wanted and try to do what they really can't, risking their health and comfort is BEYOND me!

      Steve
      That's about the most chauvanistic piece of **** I've ever heard. You wanna try and take down THIS little girl? Got clues for you - there's a lot of really big dudes that some little girls (and old ladies) can take down just fine. It's all in the training. I've known a few women that could kill YOU without using a weapon and without working a sweat. And then - don't forget...cops have equalizers that are pretty effective, too. You think that male cop can point a taser better than a woman just because he's got an extra appendage?

      I'll admit the feminist movement went too far at some points -- but allowing women to pursue the careers they want just wasn't one of them. We might not have the physical strength of men -- but we can be just as deadly in a battle.

      I would just love to see you go to Israel and spout this kind of crap over there. LMAO.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        That's about the most chauvanistic piece of **** I've ever heard. You wanna try and take down THIS little girl? Got clues for you - there's a lot of really big dudes that some little girls (and old ladies) can take down just fine. It's all in the training. I've known a few women that could kill YOU without using a weapon and without working a sweat. And then - don't forget...cops have equalizers that are pretty effective, too. You think that male cop can point a taser better than a woman just because he's got an extra appendage?

        I'll admit the feminist movement went too far at some points -- but allowing women to pursue the careers they want just wasn't one of them. We might not have the physical strength of men -- but we can be just as deadly in a battle.

        I would just love to see you go to Israel and spout this kind of crap over there. LMAO.
        OK, I was wondering if someone would take offense! YEAH, there are BIG guys that are weak, and little ones that are strong, and the same can be said of women and men, but you are simply in DENIAL if you don't see that women TEND to be shorter and weaker. NOT ALWAYS! There are ALWAYS exceptions. I said TEND! And criminals are more likely to try with someone that SEEMS to be one they can take down. Sorry, but it is true.

        At least you admit they went too far.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    That's ok, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
    I would actually retract that statement maybe if the people on the using end of tasers were sane ,rational thinking individuals,but most aren't,which the story that you posted proves to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Good point.

      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      That's ok, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
      I would actually retract that statement maybe if the people on the using end of tasers were sane ,rational thinking individuals,but most aren't,which the story that you posted proves to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      That's ok, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
      I would actually retract that statement maybe if the people on the using end of tasers were sane ,rational thinking individuals,but most aren't,which the story that you posted proves to me.
      Where do you live, Kim? I know several law enforcement officers here and they are all sane, rational, thinking individuals. I wouldn't want to live where most aren't sane.

      @Kay - We had an incident in a small town near here last year where a 16 years old (a BIG 16 year old) was walking down the street threatening people with a hunting knife. The cops came, and of course ordered him to drop the knife. He started walking at them. They backed up, still ordering him to drop the knife. He raised the knife and started running at him. They had no choice but to shoot him.

      It was all on video. The cops did everything they could not to shoot him. If they'd have had tasers that youth would probably still be alive today.

      I'm sure we can all cite cases on both sides of the issue that bolster our own views. I'm pretty sure more people die from being shot, as in the case I just explained, than die from being tased. I also think in MOST cases, the person being tased brought it on themselves through their own actions.

      Those condemning normal police (not the gang this thread is about) should try walking a mile in their shoes. It's one of the most difficult and often despised and underappreciated jobs in the world. You'd all be crying a different story if they all quit.
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Where do you live, Kim? I know several law enforcement officers here and they are all sane, rational, thinking individuals. I wouldn't want to live where most aren't sane.




        Those condemning normal police (not the gang this thread is about) should try walking a mile in their shoes. It's one of the most difficult and often despised and underappreciated jobs in the world. You'd all be crying a different story if they all quit.

        Dennis, I too know some sane police officers. As a matter of fact my brother in law is a retired one. He would do anything to avoid hurting someone but he would do whatever was needed if the situation demanded it.

        I also know someone that is trying to be a police officer,is taking criminal justice classes,and has had the police called to his residence twice so far for domestic violence.

        I know which of those individuals I want to have the responsibility .And which one I don't.



        I did not say ALL poliice officers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          Dennis, I too know some sane police officers. As a matter of fact my brother in law is a retired one. He would do anything to avoid hurting someone but he would do whatever was needed if the situation demanded it.

          I also know someone that is trying to be a police officer,is taking criminal justice classes,and has had the police called to his residence twice so far for domestic violence.

          I know which of those individuals I want to have the responsibility .And which one I don't.



          I did not say ALL poliice officers.
          No, you didn't say all, but you said MOST. Sorry Kim, but MOST are NOT insane.
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            No, you didn't say all, but you said MOST. Sorry Kim, but MOST are NOT insane.
            Dennis, I think you and I may have even discussed this before in another thread,because this is not the first thread here about taser abuse.

            My personal bottom line, as I stated in my first post in this thread,is that humans should not be tasered.
            Other than that I am not getting into a discussion about good cops/bad cops because its a lose/lose situation.
            Hope you have a great 4th of July.
            Kim
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by KimW View Post

              Hope you have a great 4th of July.
              Kim
              I will, we have some great fireworks around here, and fortunately they're not all on the 4th so my wife and I can usually catch 3-4 good shows. The 4th is one of my favorite holidays.

              Hope you enjoy your holiday weekend as well.

              Peace.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Where do you live, Kim? I know several law enforcement officers here and they are all sane, rational, thinking individuals. I wouldn't want to live where most aren't sane.

        @Kay - We had an incident in a small town near here last year where a 16 years old (a BIG 16 year old) was walking down the street threatening people with a hunting knife. The cops came, and of course ordered him to drop the knife. He started walking at them. They backed up, still ordering him to drop the knife. He raised the knife and started running at him. They had no choice but to shoot him.

        It was all on video. The cops did everything they could not to shoot him. If they'd have had tasers that youth would probably still be alive today.

        I'm sure we can all cite cases on both sides of the issue that bolster our own views. I'm pretty sure more people die from being shot, as in the case I just explained, than die from being tased. I also think in MOST cases, the person being tased brought it on themselves through their own actions.

        Those condemning normal police (not the gang this thread is about) should try walking a mile in their shoes. It's one of the most difficult and often despised and underappreciated jobs in the world. You'd all be crying a different story if they all quit.
        I don't think that tasers SHOULDN'T be used. For instance, in this case, you are correct. When someone is charging with a knife and/or an intent to harm or kill, then by all means, tase vs. gun. However, in the case of this article, it was an unthreatening "disrespectful" youth. I'll always agree to proper force in the face of danger, however I won't just because they're ticked off at the person in question.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Kim,

    I feel the SAME way! Tasers are good IF they are used in the right circumstance. If the person needs to be apprehended, for a LEGITIMATE reason, and is running away simply to run, then tasers are a good thing to use. If you DON'T have a legitimate reason, or the person is trying to get help or something, you should be locked up if you use one. And if the person DOES have a secondary injury, you should be treated as if it were INTENTIONAL! So if you taser them for no reason, they get a concussion and die, you should be up on murder charges!

    You know, we ALL like to laugh at comedies like "my cousin vinny", BUT:

    There ARE towns like that!
    There ARE police like that!
    There ARE lawyers like that!
    There ARE jurys like that!
    Innocent people DO get misquoted and railroaded like that!
    Innocent people DO end up on death row like they almost did.

    Frankly, if there is nothing to prevent that, it WILL happen! We KNOW that, because it HAS happened.

    If she hadn't taken those pictures, that vinny earlier said were WORTHLESS, and they didn't know as much about cars, and the REAL culprits weren't caught, cousin vinny may have been FAR more somber!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    Most police officers aren't even TRAINED to deal with the mentally ill....hence headlines like above.

    Just a couple years ago this problem was brought to light here in my little town and an officer specifically TRAINED to deal with the mentally ill was hired....

    She's used OFTEN and it's cleaned up our headlines here immensely.....not to mention the fact these folks are no longer being beaten up, tasered, handcuffed and hauled off to jail because officers don't know how else to deal with them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Dennis -

      For years I agreed with you and in some cases, I still do.

      However, tasers have become too commonly used on people while animals are still shot with guns. Why not tase them? I think it's because many inexperienced or lazy cops don't see tasing someone as a serious activity.

      In two cases here recently, cops shot dogs that were TIED - they say they didn't see the barking dog (in the neighboring yard) was restrained. When asked why a taser wasn't used, they said they didn't think it would be strong enough.

      That tells me that carrying a taser to some officers is on the same level as carrying handcuffs - and that's not good enough.

      I think the training needs to be more extensive - the people should have some qualifications to meet - and I think anyone carrying a taser should experience what it can do at various power levels. It a weapon - and should be viewed as a weapon.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Dennis -

        For years I agreed with you and in some cases, I still do.

        However, tasers have become too commonly used on people while animals are still shot with guns. Why not tase them? I think it's because many inexperienced or lazy cops don't see tasing someone as a serious activity.<snip>

        I wouldn't blame cops for it so much as the corruption of science, skewing it to serve the interest of profits rather than honest research results. Often the skewed research is funded by the very enterprises, eg taser manufacturers, that stand to gain the most from particular research conclusions.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Dennis -

        For years I agreed with you and in some cases, I still do.

        However, tasers have become too commonly used on people while animals are still shot with guns. Why not tase them? I think it's because many inexperienced or lazy cops don't see tasing someone as a serious activity.

        In two cases here recently, cops shot dogs that were TIED - they say they didn't see the barking dog (in the neighboring yard) was restrained. When asked why a taser wasn't used, they said they didn't think it would be strong enough.

        That tells me that carrying a taser to some officers is on the same level as carrying handcuffs - and that's not good enough.

        I think the training needs to be more extensive - the people should have some qualifications to meet - and I think anyone carrying a taser should experience what it can do at various power levels. It a weapon - and should be viewed as a weapon.
        NOT ENOUGH? NOT ENOUGH!?!?!?!? Animals are SMALLER! Their hearts beat FASTER! Given the correct placement, a taser could affect them MORE! I guess cops don't understand how animals need a heart pumping blood and how nerves control muscles through ELECTRICITY! If they can't understand THAT, maybe they shouldn't even drive the CAR!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    Local police recruits must go through training where they are blasted with pepper spray, then must successfully defend having their weapon taken by an actor assailant in order to pass training and potentially get hired.

    If tazers are not considered dangerous then why not make new recruits AND veterans go through feeling what it is like to be zapped?
    They might respect it more and not be so ready to whip out their phallic symbols so quickly on citizens.
    I've family who were/are in the force and I heard stories that makes me now have zero respect for the system which allows this kind of abuse to go unpunished.It is extremely difficult to obtain justice when the police are the perps.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John M Kane View Post

      Local police recruits must go through training where they are blasted with pepper spray, then must successfully defend having their weapon taken by an actor assailant in order to pass training and potentially get hired.

      If tazers are not considered dangerous then why not make new recruits AND veterans go through feeling what it is like to be zapped?
      They might respect it more and not be so ready to whip out their phallic symbols so quickly on citizens.
      I've family who were/are in the force and I heard stories that makes me now have zero respect for the system which allows this kind of abuse to go unpunished.It is extremely difficult to obtain justice when the police are the perps.
      Phallic symbols? Really?

      Around here police officers do get tased before they are issued a taser.

      Again, I'm not defending the actions of the officers in the OP story, but cops like that are the exception, not the norm.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's not just police - it's anywhere that people have power. Power corrupts. Period. If you go high enough in corporations, government, military, police, Universities, non-profits...I don't care where -- where there is a hierarchy of power you will find people who are going to abuse the people they have authority over. It's an all too rare, shining example of humanity that can handle power with grace and dignity.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It's not just police - it's anywhere that people have power. Power corrupts. Period. If you go high enough in corporations, government, military, police, Universities, non-profits...I don't care where -- where there is a hierarchy of power you will find people who are going to abuse the people they have authority over. It's an all too rare, shining example of humanity that can handle power with grace and dignity.
      We're in agreement there Sal.

      If someone can take a liberty with another, too often enough, many people they will take it.


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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    That sounds utterly disgraceful, something should be done about this mentality to quickly resort to force
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I'm disturbed that no-one has objected to the idea that being verbally disrespectful of a police officer is seen as grounds for Tasering and beating a person. Especially the trivial kind of "disrespectful" that would come from someone displaying a speech impediment, real or fake.


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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        I'm disturbed that no-one has objected to the idea that being verbally disrespectful of a police officer is seen as grounds for Tasering and beating a person. Especially the trivial kind of "disrespectful" that would come from someone displaying a speech impediment, real or fake.


        Paul
        Frankly I found the entire story amazing.

        20 officers? They had him in his home, tasered and pepper sprayed and they called for back up, not just a few but "around" 20? Which part of "mentally challenged" did the entire mob of police find so hard to understand?

        Paul I find it more than objectionable they used sparks and gas to take this kid out. I find it even more concerning that 2 armed coppers needed back up to arrest some poor 17 year old with mental problems.

        Was this kid 10 foot tall or something?
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Was this kid 10 foot tall or something?
          I think you're missing Paul's point, at least if I'm understanding it correctly.

          Let's just say the kid was in perfect mental and physical health, and that he HAD in fact been verbally sassing the cops. Is that justifiable grounds for "bringing him down," whether via taser, pepper spray, physical force, or other methods, and calling in over a dozen backup cops?

          Almost everyone in this thread seems to think so, and the only argument is over the amount of force used, and the tactics, but not whether it's an appropriate reaction in the first place. That's the part that's amazing (and scary) to me.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

            I think you're missing Paul's point, at least if I'm understanding it correctly.

            Let's just say the kid was in perfect mental and physical health, and that he HAD in fact been verbally sassing the cops. Is that justifiable grounds for "bringing him down," whether via taser, pepper spray, physical force, or other methods, and calling in over a dozen backup cops?

            Almost everyone in this thread seems to think so, and the only argument is over the amount of force used, and the tactics, but not whether it's an appropriate reaction in the first place. That's the part that's amazing (and scary) to me.
            That's the truth, Ken. I remember people getting in line saying that a guy that got playful and ran out onto a playing field during a game deserved being tased. Somehow people now think electricity is a fun means of discipline and a good one. I want to put a dog shock collar on those people's necks and give them a day or two to figure out how great it is to have people with the authority to dose electricity at you whenever you are not being completely obedient. This is just so Orwellian I can't believe it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              That's the truth, Ken. I remember people getting in line saying that a guy that got playful and ran out onto a playing field during a game deserved being tased. Somehow people now think electricity is a fun means of discipline and a good one. I want to put a dog shock collar on those people's necks and give them a day or two to figure out how great it is to have people with the authority to dose electricity at you whenever you are not being completely obedient. This is just so Orwellian I can't believe it.
              I'm one that thinks if you cross a line and jump on a playing field, you get what you deserve.

              First is the safety of the coaches and players. You are omitting the case in Chicago where a father and son ran on the field and seriously beat the first base coach. Or when Monica Seles was stabbed by a "fan". Fans belong in the stands, not on the field.

              Second is simply going on a field of play without earning the right to do so, just so some idiot can get a little attention. As a former athlete, I was taught you EARN your way on the field.

              I'm sick of attention whores. It's simple. Stay in the stands where you belong and you won't get tased. BTW, where's Mike Curtis when you need him?

              In the particular case on this thread, I've only heard one side of the story, so I don't have an opinion since I don't have enough info.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                I'm one that thinks if you cross a line and jump on a playing field, you get what you deserve.

                First is the safety of the coaches and players. You are omitting the case in Chicago where a father and son ran on the field and seriously beat the first base coach. Or when Monica Seles was stabbed by a "fan". Fans belong in the stands, not on the field.

                Second is simply going on a field of play without earning the right to do so, just so some idiot can get a little attention. As a former athlete, I was taught you EARN your way on the field.

                I'm sick of attention whores. It's simple. Stay in the stands where you belong and you won't get tased. BTW, where's Mike Curtis when you need him?

                In the particular case on this thread, I've only heard one side of the story, so I don't have an opinion since I don't have enough info.
                That reminded me of a football game I was watching on TV years ago.
                A fan got on the field and started running around. Lasted till he got around the defense then one of them thought he was a tackling dummy

                I don't know much about this case either, but I know from past experiences sometimes physical force is needed to subdue someone being verbally abusive.
                As far as just being disrespected that's a whole different issue.
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Ken Strong View Post

            I think you're missing Paul's point, at least if I'm understanding it correctly.

            Let's just say the kid was in perfect mental and physical health, and that he HAD in fact been verbally sassing the cops. Is that justifiable grounds for "bringing him down," whether via taser, pepper spray, physical force, or other methods, and calling in over a dozen backup cops?

            Almost everyone in this thread seems to think so, and the only argument is over the amount of force used, and the tactics, but not whether it's an appropriate reaction in the first place. That's the part that's amazing (and scary) to me.
            Hi Ken,

            No I understood Pauls point perfectly, I was trying to agree but I don't think I made my point clearly enough. I think the reaction by the police to what they percieved wrongly as disrespect was outrageous, whether he was mentally ill or not.

            There's no question they reacted totally the wrong way.

            My point was it was handled badly from the very word go but just seemed to get more farcical as it went on. Going after the kid in the first place was incredible, by the time they'd got to his house, I'm just out of words to describe it.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Frankly I found the entire story amazing.

          20 officers? They had him in his home, tasered and pepper sprayed and they called for back up, not just a few but "around" 20? Which part of "mentally challenged" did the entire mob of police find so hard to understand?

          Paul I find it more than objectionable they used sparks and gas to take this kid out. I find it even more concerning that 2 armed coppers needed back up to arrest some poor 17 year old with mental problems.

          Was this kid 10 foot tall or something?
          As I said earlier, THEY seem to be the REALLY mentally challenged ones! As fr the kid being 10 foot tall, the taser could have helped THERE if they only had TWO people. USUALLY, cops travel in pairs.

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        I'm disturbed that no-one has objected to the idea that being verbally disrespectful of a police officer is seen as grounds for Tasering and beating a person. Especially the trivial kind of "disrespectful" that would come from someone displaying a speech impediment, real or fake.


        Paul
        Maybe not in so many words BUT, for the record, ****I**** did! I said that for such a thing that a police officer should be locked up because their job is to PREVENT such behaviour!

        Police should be respected ONLY as to the AUTHORITY! If they make a legal and reasonable request, THEN they should be given courteous respect. Treat them almost like a friend, and obey. If you don't, YOU may be locked up on suspicion or obstruction of justice! They should NOT be shown the "respect" that I guess these officers wanted! THAT isn't RESPECT, that is FEAR, and the POLICE should be locked up! They should NOT be shown respect if they ask something illegal or unreasonable. That is anarchy, etc....

        Steve
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