Ex-Cop Shot 28 Times By Police, Acquitted, Recharged

Fernando Veloso

12 years ago

Whats up with the racial thing? Ex-Cop isn't enough?

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Whats up with the racial thing? Ex-Cop isn't enough?

Sadly, when racism is apparently involved, it is best to adjust to reality as it is rather than the way it should be.

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mojojuju

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Sadly, when racism is apparently involved, it is best to adjust to reality as it is rather than the way it should be.

How do you think it's apparent that racism is involved?

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ThomM

12 years ago

Here's another one for you Tbird, this time from NY.
Video: Police Kill Retired Marine Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. Over Medic Alert Bracelet
From the article.

When police arrived, they started banging on his door. Chamberlain yelled out to them that he was all right, that they weren’t needed.
The dead man’s son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr., and his lawyers said LifeAid’s audiobox recorded every sound inside the apartment.
One of the family’s lawyers, Mayo Bartlett, a former Westchester assistant district attorney, said someone can be heard screaming at Chamberlain on the LifeAid tape: “I don’t give a f--k, n----r, open the door!”

Eventually police officers, with the help of firefighters, broke down the door only to find Chamberlain standing in the middle of the room, unarmed, in his boxer shorts. Moments later, he would be dead.

Hard to say this wasn't racist.
I wish racist would understand that the race they hate isn't the problem, they are.

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thunderbird 12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

How do you think it's apparent that racism is involved?

I don't know what motivated the cops in this case. An eye witness said that the victim never fired a weapon. Evidence that could point one way or the other was destroyed -- why?
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TLTheLiberator 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Whats up with the racial thing? Ex-Cop isn't enough?

Sadly I was thinking the same thing.

TL
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- thunderbird 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  Sadly I was thinking the same thing.
  
  TL
  
  Edited. Denial doesn't cure the disease, but I guess you're right. I've edited the thread's title and message.
  
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mojojuju

12 years ago

I suppose that any offence committed against a non-Caucasian person must be racist. Right? :rolleyes:

Can't people just be assholes without racist motivations?

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

I suppose that any offence committed against a non-Caucasian person must be racist. Right? :rolleyes:

Can't people just be assholes without racist motivations?

I get what you're saying.
I think a lot of times it's just like you say an asshole being one.
But like in the case that I posted the link to, when a cop calls a black man a n____r and then the black man is dead, that's a racist crime.

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mojojuju

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

But like in the case that I posted the link to, when a cop calls a black man a n____r and then the black man is dead, that's a racist crime.

If that's truly the case then I'd agree with you. But the audio recording of the incident has not been released to the public so I'm not sure what was said.

The family's attorney and the family say that the officers were saying some racist things, but I think I'd like to hear the tape myself or the testimony of a more neutral party before I'd arrive at the conclusion that those cops were racially motivated or saying things of a racist nature.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

If that's truly the case then I'd agree with you. But the audio recording of the incident has not been released to the public so I'm not sure what was said.

The family's attorney and the family say that the officers were saying some racist things, but I think I'd like to hear the tape myself or the testimony of a more neutral party before I'd arrive at the conclusion that those cops were racially motivated or saying things of a racist nature.

I don't think they would makes claims like that and claim it's all on the lifeline tape if it wasn't true.
To easy to dispute.

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mojojuju 12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I don't think they would makes claims like that and claim it's all on the lifeline tape if it wasn't true.
To easy to dispute.

I don't think the family was lying when they say they heard racist taunts on the recording. Also, people make easily disputed false claims all of the time. Again, I'm not suggesting these people are lying.

Realize that the family must have found listening to the recordings to be a very emotionally difficult ordeal. Consider that the medical alert device in Chamberlain's device probably isn't capable of producing a clear recording of the officer's voices coming from the other side of Chamberlain's front door. Taking those things into consideration, I think it's very possible that the officer's allegedly saying “I don’t give a f--k, n----r, open the door!” may have been the officers saying something entirely different.

I'd guess that, for practical reasons, the LifeAid recording device was placed in an area central to the home and not placed directly near the front door where the police entered, where it would pick up the voices of the officers most clearly.

Anyway, to me, it's just hearsay with what I've got to go on, and I prefer not to believe that the cops were racially motivated unless there's objectively verified proof of it.

The media, and society, love these types of stories of alleged racial unrest and injustice. It gets people riled up! Just ask the Duke Lacrosse Team!
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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

I suppose that any offence committed against a non-Caucasian person must be racist. Right? :rolleyes:

Can't people just be assholes without racist motivations?

Yes, it happens all the time. When they're is a recurring pattern, there can be a tendency to complete the pattern. If it looks like a water buffalo, leaves tracks like a water buffalo, eats like a water buffalo, sure, it might be an Gnu.

Victim Howard Morgan's wife is not necessarily saying that she thinks it was a racist incident:
Is there Justice for the Black Off-duty Officer Shot 28 Times by White Cops? | JD Journal

“'If they can do this and eliminate double jeopardy and your constitutional rights then my god, I fear for every Afro-American – whether they be male or female – in this corrupt unjust system,'” said Morgan’s wife.'"

Racist incident? Maybe not. Might be a Gnu. I actually think Morgan's wife is a little too narrow in saying that. If they can do that do Howard Morgan, they could do that to anyone, irrespective of race, gender, age, economic status. They could do that to someone whose web page or tweets bother them.

Black Ex-cop Shot 28 Times by Chicago Police, Faces Sentencing | ONN
"Morgan is African-American. All of the police officers involved in the shooting are white."

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Howard Morgan, Chicago Man Shot 28 Times By Chicago Cops, Sentenced To 40 Years In Prison
A 61-year-old Chicago man who was shot 28 times by Chicago police officers in 2005 -- and lived to tell his side of the story -- was sentenced Thursday to serve 40 years in prison, essentially a life sentence.
Howard Morgan, Chicago Man Shot 28 Times By Chicago Cops, Sentenced To 40 Years In Prison

A man who was shot 28 times by Chicago Police officers during a 2005 traffic stop was sentenced Thursday to 40 years in prison for attempted murder.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...cago-cops.html

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mojojuju

12 years ago

It's probably not a good idea to shoot at cops. Doing so usually comes with severe consequences.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

It's probably not a good idea to shoot at cops. Doing so usually comes with severe consequences.

I don't believe that former police officer Howard Morgan ever fired his gun or had any intent to kill anyone.

It looks to me that the cops went berserkkk and shot him with the intent to kill rather than merely submit him. Otherwise why shoot him 28 times? The eyewitness said Howard Morgan never fired his gun. There was no evidence that he ever fired his gun. And, I believe that it was indeed a racially motivated incident of four White racist cops attempting to murder a Black man who miraculously survived the murder attempt. They then tried bury their crime with bogus criminal charges against the victim.

Do I know for sure that it was a racist incident? No. But, it sure looks that way to me. Howard Morgan's wife said, "If they can do this and eliminate double jeopardy and your constitutional rights, then my God, I fear for every Afro-American -- whether they be male or female -- in this corrupt unjust system." I fear for *every* American, myself.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I don't believe that former police officer Howard Morgan ever fired his gun or had any intent to kill anyone.

It looks to me that the cops went berserkkk and shot him with the intent to kill rather than merely submit him. Otherwise why shoot him 28 times? The eyewitness said Howard Morgan never fired his gun. There was no evidence that he ever fired his gun. And, I believe that it was indeed a racially motivated incident of four White racist cops attempting to murder a Black man who miraculously survived the murder attempt. They then tried bury their crime with bogus criminal charges against the victim.

Do I know for sure that it was a racist incident? No. But, it sure looks that way to me. Howard Morgan's wife said, "If they can do this and eliminate double jeopardy and your constitutional rights, then my God, I fear for every Afro-American -- whether they be male or female -- in this corrupt unjust system." I fear for *every* American, myself.

Did you read my post above Tbird? They gave the guy 40 years in prison today for 'not firing a gun', and attempted murder...explain that one to me - because it seems a little extreme...this guy definitely got on somebody's bad side...

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Did you read my post above Tbird? They gave the guy 40 years in prison today for 'not firing a gun', and attempted murder...explain that one to me - because it seems a little extreme...this guy definitely got on somebody's bad side...

Yeah, I read that and did know about the sentence he received. It is outrageous and unjust. The cops who tried to murder him -- for which there is substantial evidence while there was none against Howard Morgan -- are the ones who should be going to jail.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I don't believe that former police officer Howard Morgan ever fired his gun or had any intent to kill anyone.

It looks to me that the cops went berserkkk and shot him with the intent to kill rather than merely submit him. Otherwise why shoot him 28 times? The eyewitness said Howard Morgan never fired his gun. There was no evidence that he ever fired his gun. And, I believe that it was indeed a racially motivated incident of four White racist cops attempting to murder a Black man who miraculously survived the murder attempt. They then tried bury their crime with bogus criminal charges against the victim.

Do I know for sure that it was a racist incident? No. But, it sure looks that way to me. Howard Morgan's wife said, "If they can do this and eliminate double jeopardy and your constitutional rights, then my God, I fear for every Afro-American -- whether they be male or female -- in this corrupt unjust system." I fear for *every* American, myself.

TB - you are the most racially sensitive person I've ever met - of ANY race. When people are ALWAYS on eggshells about race, that's not a good thing at all. We can thank news media for keeping people in a continual stir over race. It keeps us occupied and off the trail of the people REALLY causing the problems for us. If left to our own devices, many people of many races who don't feel like integrating fully would just go live in their own little groups, because most of us feel more comfy in our own cultures, and not really think about it.....and would be more cordial to each other in public. It's constantly forcing the issue that is keeping the issue conflagrated.

When it comes to cop vs. cop, I'm sensing that the issue of race is also one here that is being pushed at us for one simple reason. People will get all hot and sweaty over racial crap -- when it is far more likely that this incident happened to cover up something that nobody wants the public to get ahold of. What better way to sidetrack a stupid public than to put 4 white guys against the black guy and let the public scream about racism while the real issues remain buried? Shot 28 times by cops and not dead - and there wasn't something going on that we are not supposed to find out about. That alone says something is hiding in a closet somewhere. 40 years in prison after surviving?

What happened is that guy is being used as a warning for something going on in that city that a lot of people with money don't want anyone to find out about. There's nothing even starting to smell like racism here. It just smells like some really heavy duty corruption at the top.

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bailbondsguys

12 years ago

Wow! Just wow! First of all, if someone is shot 21 times in the back and 7 times in the front that screams of unjustified use of lethal force. This is not an attempt to "detain" and individual it's an attempt to kill the individual. The fact that he was shot in both the back and the front infers that the shooting happened over at least the course of a few seconds allowing the man to get shot in the back multiple times and turn around while still being fired upon.

Secondly, if 4 officers pump 28 rounds into an individual who survives (seemingly at fairly close range)... obviously the officers involved in the shooting are not very proficient with using their own firearms effectively.

1. The officers intent was clearly to kill if enough bullets to equate to 2 clips of ammo are fired at a single target.
2. The fact that 28 bullets hit their target but missed vital organs and arteries shows very novice marksmanship.
3. The incident appears to have occurred at close range since the man was disarmed by the police officers prior to the shooting.

I think at the very least it should be of primary concern for the Chicago Police Department to investigate the ability of their officers and ensure they are properly trained to use their weapons. The last thing the city needs are stray bullets flying from novice Police officers who are willing to use a weapon they cannot control effectively.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Boy - this one will tick you off too...I don't know WHAT to make of this -

"I learned not to open a door for a cop ever again."

Pro Libertate: "Necessary Force"

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Boy - this one will tick you off too...I don't know WHAT to make of this -

"I learned not to open a door for a cop ever again."

Pro Libertate: "Necessary Force"

That's no lie. Nothing scares me like a cop trained by Blackwater. They aren't even human any more. They look at you even peaceably and you don't see the eyes of a human or any recognition that they see you as being one. Yet they have the weapons and they have been given authority.

Frankly - right now our whole government just scares me sh*tless. And I'm not the timid sort.

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Sal
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

That's no lie. Nothing scares me like a cop trained by Blackwater. They aren't even human any more. They look at you even peaceably and you don't see the eyes of a human or any recognition that they see you as being one. Yet they have the weapons and they have been given authority.

Frankly - right now our whole government just scares me sh*tless. And I'm not the timid sort.

It is looking rather Orwellian these days...isn't it Sal ?

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Ex-Cop Shot 28 Times By Police, Acquitted, Recharged

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