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'Search Warrants May Now Be Based on Predictions of the Commission of Future Crimes'

by Joe Mobley
24 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Texas police can now obtain search warrants based on "predictions of the commission of future crimes," a judge noted in his dissent to an opinion last week.
Although I think the example case is a little weak, I do think the trend is... disturbing.

'Search Warrants May Now Be Based on Predictions of the Commission of Future Crimes' | TheBlaze.com

Joe Mobley
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    So what were they arrested for? Possession of decongestants? Was there any crime committed at all ... yet?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    sbucciarel,

    Didn't you know? They started locking up some decongestants a while ago. since this would be ABHORRENT, and hurt business, they don't require a prescription but have pharmacists create a list, check IDs, and limit things.

    They created a NEW industry! SERIOUSLY! It is HARD to make this stuff up! The name of the industry? SMURFING!!!!!!! To those that don't know why this is funny....


    OK, tell the truth! You ALREADY figured I was making this up, RIGHT!?!?!??!? RIGHT!?!?!?!?

    WRONG!!!!!!!

    Smurfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Smurfing is a term law enforcement and illicit drug distributors use to refer to the hiring individuals to purchase pseudoephedrine in order to exceed legal purchase limits in order to manufacture of illicit drugs such as methamphetamine.
    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      sbucciarel,

      Didn't you know? They started locking up some decongestants a while ago. since this would be ABHORRENT, and hurt business, they don't require a prescription but have pharmacists create a list, check IDs, and limit things.
      Yes, I'm aware of the controls on decongestants and I don't disagree with those controls, since the amount needed to produce dangerous drugs far exceeds what the average person or family with a stuffed up nose would need.

      Just wondered if possession of that amount of decongestants is a criminal offense by itself.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Yes, I'm aware of the controls on decongestants and I don't disagree with those controls, since the amount needed to produce dangerous drugs far exceeds what the average person or family with a stuffed up nose would need.

        Just wondered if possession of that amount of decongestants is a criminal offense by itself.
        If you get more than a few packs, they will start to suspect you of wrongdoing. Smurfing, and obviously creating the drugs, is ILLEGAL. I believe BOTH are FELONIES! SO, though it is legal to collect the stuff, you could STILL end up in jail.

        But I think that is the OPs point, and it IS mine. The PROFILE of a smurfer is going to stores and buying several packs of this. So they will suspect you of smurfing. So try to stay away from the limit, and try to avoid going to multiple stores in the same month to get the stuff.

        The FACT is that some feel they REALLY need this stuff, and some MIGHT! And they also may fear that it will no longer be produced or sold. So those people that feel such a way likely WILL collect it! I do the SAME thing for the SAME reasons with warfarin! Some do the same with ammunition! It is why gun sales generally SKYROCKET when the government talks about banning them or reducing them in some way.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          If you get more than a few packs, they will start to suspect you of wrongdoing. Smurfing, and obviously creating the drugs, is ILLEGAL. I believe BOTH are FELONIES! SO, though it is legal to collect the stuff, you could STILL end up in jail.

          ...
          And they also may fear that it will no longer be produced or sold. So those people that feel such a way likely WILL collect it! I do the SAME thing for the SAME reasons with warfarin! Some do the same with ammunition! It is why gun sales generally SKYROCKET when the government talks about banning them or reducing them in some way.

          Steve
          Well, I got my answer from Google. More than enough decongestant for my needs.

          the legal limit for purchases is 9 grams per month - roughly the equivalent of two 15-dose boxes of 24-hour Claritin D, or three 10-dose boxes of Aleve Cold & Sinus, or six 24-dose boxes of Sudafed
          (A misdemeanor possession offense under 21 U.S.C. § 844a for the person who buys it.)
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Well, I got my answer from Google. More than enough decongestant for my needs.
            Regarding the offense? Is that for buying too much, or for buying as a MULE of sorts(to sell to a drug manufacturer)? When I said felony, I meant as a kind of mule. I bet that IS a felony.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    This is exactly what we should have expected when our 4th amendment was trashed. Look around your house and see all the things that you could be "predicted to use in the commission of a crime". Anyone and everyone can be arrested for nothing if this shyte goes through. Have glass jars and a car with gas in it - or a gas can for a lawnmower? How bout hunting or steak knives and duct tape and maybe a ski mask or pair of panty hose as well.

    This is about the most dangerous precedent I've ever seen in my life.

    All it takes under this ruling is a nosy, troublemaker of a neighbor. I'm sorry - but the Godwin principle is now OFF the table.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    They have been convicting people based on imagined past or future acts for DECADES! It's called profiling! Profiling should be ok as long as it gives a theory that can be proved, in THIS SPECIFIC case, but it should be used as a traditional THEORY, NOT to prosecute/harass.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      They have been convicting people based on imagined past or future acts for DECADES! It's called profiling! Profiling should be ok as long as it gives a theory that can be proved, in THIS SPECIFIC case, but it should be used as a traditional THEORY, NOT to prosecute/harass.

      Steve
      Shoulda, woulda, coulda -- when it comes to being thrown in jail arbitrarily just doesn't get it. We are supposed to be protected from that kind of Tryanny. That's purely fascist concentration camp type of shyte and we can NOT tolerate it.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Shoulda, woulda, coulda -- when it comes to being thrown in jail arbitrarily just doesn't get it. We are supposed to be protected from that kind of Tryanny. That's purely fascist concentration camp type of shyte and we can NOT tolerate it.
        I said TRADITIONAL theory! TRADITIONAL realizes that it is NOT fact, but merely an idea one could validate. The problem is that the world has become an addams family, and words no longer mean what they did. Theory is one such word.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      They have been convicting people based on imagined past or future acts for DECADES! It's called profiling! Profiling should be ok as long as it gives a theory that can be proved, in THIS SPECIFIC case, but it should be used as a traditional THEORY, NOT to prosecute/harass.

      Steve

      When I was 18 one of my coworkers invited me to a party at his house.
      Unfortunately for me, he was black and he lived in a black section of town.

      I was pulled over for being white. No joke, that's what the cop said.
      Whites don't belong here, they only come here for drugs and prostitutes.

      He asked me if he could search my truck, my dumbass said sure.
      I had nothing to hide. He searched it, his buddies searched it, they
      eventually got a dog to search it. Of course they did not find
      any drugs, but they did find a folding hair brush with a mirror
      and a thermos. They said it was drug paraphernalia.

      So they wrote me 2 tickets, in pounded my truck and took me to jail.

      The judge saw it for what it was and thru it out the next morning,
      but still. I had to pay to get my truck back, they stranded my girlfriend,
      they locked me up for the night ... because I was white.

      When people say I don't care about this law or that law, because
      I never do anything wrong ... That's just ignorance speaking.

      You might not be doing anything wrong, but it doesn't mean some
      jerk with a badge isn't going to arbitrarily mess your world up.
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      Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        When I was 18 one of my coworkers invited me to a party at his house.
        Unfortunately for me, he was black and he lived in a black section of town.

        I was pulled over for being white. No joke, that's what the cop said.
        Whites don't belong here, they only come here for drugs and prostitutes.

        He asked me if he could search my truck, my dumbass said sure.
        I had nothing to hide. He searched it, his buddies searched it, they
        eventually got a dog to search it. Of course they did not find
        any drugs, but they did find a folding hair brush with a mirror
        and a thermos. They said it was drug paraphernalia.

        So they wrote me 2 tickets, in pounded my truck and took me to jail.

        The judge saw it for what it was and thru it out the next morning,
        but still. I had to pay to get my truck back, they stranded my girlfriend,
        they locked me up for the night ... because I was white.

        When people say I don't care about this law or that law, because
        I never do anything wrong ... That's just ignorance speaking.

        You might not be doing anything wrong, but it doesn't mean some
        jerk with a badge isn't going to arbitrarily mess your world up.
        Stopping you, in that case, MIGHT have been OK, just to warn you about the area, and ask questions. Actually, one would HOPE they would merely call for a wants and warrants, realize you were clean and leave before you even really noticed them! But the REST was certainly out of line. They violated SEVERAL amendments! They violated the SPIRIT of the country.

        I once took a friend to the house of one of her friends. Her friend was in south central. We got stares! Two white people in South Central LA!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If you don't do anything wrong you'll be ok.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    So like the thought police? You shall be vaporized soon, Joe.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Soon, they'll do genetic analyses of babies and imprison those with undesirable results.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Soon, they'll do genetic analyses of babies and imprison those with undesirable results.
      They'll do in womb analysis and just abort the ones they don't want. You're not very good at Owellian.

      Well folks - the NDAA was just passed again for 2014 -- so according to our leaders - they don't need any reason to haul you off. Guess people were too busy watching that Duck Dynasty brewhaha to notice this one huh?
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      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        They'll do in womb analysis and just abort the ones they don't want. You're not very good at Owellian.

        Well folks - the NDAA was just passed again for 2014 -- so according to our leaders - they don't need any reason to haul you off. Guess people were too busy watching that Duck Dynasty brewhaha to notice this one huh?
        That IS akin to Gattaca! They ALLOWED non approved people to be conceived, but THEY were called "invalids" and relegated to a kind of slavery in menial jobs.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Regarding the offense? Is that for buying too much, or for buying as a MULE of sorts(to sell to a drug manufacturer)? When I said felony, I meant as a kind of mule. I bet that IS a felony.

          Steve
          Buying too much is a misdemeanor. Period.

          Since the allowance is enough for any one person to dose themselves daily for the entire month, every month, who could disagree with those kinds of controls? It probably doesn't put a dent in meth labs operation, but there are other dangers of too much decongestant. I have chronic sinus infections and I overdid it on the Afrin nasal spray combined with Sudafed and almost died. Was taken from the house in an ambulance. It is a form of "speed" and my heart was beating so fast that it could no longer pump blood efficiently. The guys at emergency thought I was abusing cocaine.

          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          That IS akin to Gattaca! They ALLOWED non approved people to be conceived, but THEY were called "invalids" and relegated to a kind of slavery in menial jobs.

          Steve
          Gotta love the Off Topic section. Some of you guys down in the basement are missing your calling. You could probably make a fortune as science fiction writers.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Buying too much is a misdemeanor. Period.

            Since the allowance is enough for any one person to dose themselves daily for the entire month, every month, who could disagree with those kinds of controls? It probably doesn't put a dent in meth labs operation, but there are other dangers of too much decongestant. I have chronic sinus infections and I overdid it on the Afrin nasal spray combined with Sudafed and almost died. Was taken from the house in an ambulance. It is a form of "speed" and my heart was beating so fast that it could no longer pump blood efficiently. The guys at emergency thought I was abusing cocaine.



            Gotta love the Off Topic section. Some of you guys down in the basement are missing your calling. You could probably make a fortune as science fiction writers.
            As for your first statement, YEP! It is dangerous! Warfarin is dangerous ALSO! It used to be, LITERALLY, used as RAT POISON! There IS a record on the internet of a guy using its effects to commit suicide. As for thinking you were talking cocaine? I know a bodybuilder that once pushed himself SO far that they thought the damage was intentional and locked him up in a mental ward!

            I am on, and live on, the first floor(GROUND LEVEL), thank you...

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I think it would be frustrating to be a drug enforcement cop.

              You walk into a house and see everything necessary to "cook up" some meth....and know you have to follow the dots and hope the court doesn't throw out the case because you missed a dot.

              There's a limit on how much decongestant you can buy - and the limit is to stop the use of the product to make drugs. If you go into a house and they have way over the allowable limit and have the other items needed to make drugs - do you prosecute them for having "too much decongestant" or do you make the leap to "drugs"?

              I would not want that job.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          That IS akin to Gattaca! They ALLOWED non approved people to be conceived, but THEY were called "invalids" and relegated to a kind of slavery in menial jobs.

          Steve
          What's Gattaca? Movie? Book? Never heard of it.
          Signature

          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
          Beyond the Path

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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            What's Gattaca? Movie? Book? Never heard of it.
            It might be a book also, but I watched the movie. Gattaca (1997) - IMDb

            Basically, parents decided to take their chances with their first child. He was named after the father. They tested the child after he was born, and found he had a slight heart problem. The father renamed the child. With the SECOND child, they went the approved route, and got a "valid" child. HE got the name of the father.

            Once, as kids, when they decided to skim a race(which "the valid" ALWAYS won), the "INVALID" won, and saved his brother!!!!!!! From that moment on, the valid basically hated him. It is revealed later that the "invalid" simply was tired of losing and wanted to swim as far as he could even if he couldn't get back!

            The "invalid" had HIGH aspirations, and wanted to be an astronaut, but ALL laughed at him. He was forced to be a janitor. The "valid" had low aspirations, and wanted to be a policeman, and was easily accepted.

            Anyway, I won't go more into the plot except to say that the "invalid" ended up tricking all to give him a chance, and he lived up to every expectation of his false persona. His BROTHER ended up being put on the case of a murder where the "invalid" was the main suspect due to DNA found.

            It IS an interesting movie that shows NOT some scifi thing that may never happen, but something that could happen TODAY that key players HAVE been discussing and is along the lines of what has happened in the past. Basically, HERE, the invalids would be akin to blacks just after they were declared free, and prior to the rescinding of the jim crow laws.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    You all will love this one.

    Last week, Mother Jones' Molly Redden wrote about a recent Human Rights Watch report, "In Harm’s Way," which argues that aggressive policing in New Orleans is contributing to the city’s soaring HIV/AIDS rates. One tactic that Human Rights Watch found to be particularly problematic: the police harassment of suspected sex workers for possessing condoms.
    Transgender women reported the police calling them a "thing," a "whore," and "a disgrace to America" while searching them for condoms.

    At the heart of the matter is the vague definition of the crime of "loitering for prostitution," which invites arbitrary arrests and discriminatory policing. According to the report, police in New Orleans use the possession of condoms as evidence of prostitution, even if they don't witness the crime underway. The result? Of the report’s 169 interviewees, all of whom had exchanged sex for money, drugs, or life necessities, more than a third said that they had carried fewer condoms out of fear of police harassment. More than a quarter had had unprotected sex due to the fear of carrying condoms.

    Testimonies in the report describe police harassing sex workers, threatening arrest based on condom possession, and, in some cases, confiscating the condoms altogether. Transgender women reported the police calling them a "thing," a "whore," and "a disgrace to America" while searching them for condoms. Cleo, a 36-year-old woman, said, "In the French Quarter [in March of this year] I was at [a bar] with a man and the cops asked only the trans women to go outside and they searched us. If we had condoms we got arrested for attempted solicitation."

    New Orleans isn’t the only place where Human Rights Watch has documented condom confiscation. Last year, the organization examined the police treatment of sex workers in San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, and Washington, DC, and found that police in all four cities were using condoms as evidence of prostitution.

    From last year's report, "Sex Workers at Risk":

    Police use of condoms as evidence of prostitution has the same effect everywhere. Despite millions of dollars spent on promoting and distributing condoms as an effective method of HIV prevention, groups most at risk of infection—sex workers, transgender women, and lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) youth—are afraid to carry them and therefore engage in sex without protection as a result of police harassment. Outreach workers and businesses are unable to distribute condoms freely and without fear of harassment as well.
    When Having Condoms Gets You Arrested | Mother Jones
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You all will love this one.
      You would think the MEN would have their OWN!

      Steve
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