Fake stories? Or True Stories? Any thoughts?

37 replies
I want to admit myself that whenever i see marketing gurus talk about your stories should be true then i feel a bit awkward and cringe.

But i still feel the idea of telling the truth is important. However what does it mean i advertising? Is it about knowing the product inside and out? is it what counts as true and ethical? well we all have different resources. And they are limited in various ways...

Right now my conclusion is truth means truth within yourself. What is true for me. But i feel this conclusion is bit shaky too. But i don't see any other options right now either.

How do you be honest when doing advertising? What does "True Story" mean? who decides and how they decide the truthness of something? Is it what works matters? then a story embellished to the point it is fake and it works - does that make it true?

Any thoughts?
#fake #stories #thoughts #true
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    then a story embellished to the point it is fake and it works - does that make it true?

    If the story happened - it's real.
    If you made it up - it's not real.


    Have never cared what 'gurus' have to say about it. I don't lie to family or to friends - and I won't do it in business, either.


    It's a 'line' you set for yourself - do what YOU are comfortable with.
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  • Profile picture of the author tacassim
    honestly i think i lost the ability to distinguish the truth from false when it comes to advertising and stories...
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

      honestly i think i lost the ability to distinguish the truth from false when it comes to advertising and stories...
      You should be good at telling real stories and pretend stories.

      First, if you're telling a story about how someone used your product and got xyz results, that should always be true...and anyone that wanted to should be able to verify it. In the old days, they used to say sworn under oath or notarized by xxxxx. Haven't seen that in a long time though.

      Now, you can also tell pretend stories, and they are very effective...

      you can start it out with something like: "Imagine you are on a flight from Columbus Ohio to Hong Kong, and suddenly..."

      You then tell a story of what your reader could experience and how your product could save their life,etc. This puts the reader in a possible scenario and explains how your product would work.

      You need to learn to tell good stories.
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  • Profile picture of the author tacassim
    mostly in affiliate marketing - i dont think anybody goes around checking if the story happened or not.. they just care about the conversion...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jamell
    We have fictional books that people read and like ,we also have non fictional books that people like.

    In my opinion it's about being authentic while at the same time crafting or documenting and sharing your experiences in a way that is engaging and digestible for your target audience .
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    Right now my conclusion is truth means truth within yourself. What is true for me. But i feel this conclusion is bit shaky too. But i don't see any other options right now either.
    Your post seems mostly philosophical, and it feels like you're caught up in a crisis of conscience more than anything else. The way you phrase your question is more about general ethics, than about marketing and advertising.

    (Honestly, I'm not really sure why this thread is in the copywriting section instead of the mindwarrior / philosophy section, but I guess you used the word "story" so this is where it ended up?)

    Of course people lie. Marketers lie. Politicians lie. Friends, family and strangers lie.

    Some lie for altruistic reasons (like to save someone else from getting hurt)
    some lie for greed or malicious intent (for their own selfish ends)
    and sometime people lie because they're just repeating something they heard, and accepted it as truth without knowing it was a lie.

    But when push comes to shove anyone who tells you they never ever lie under any circumstances, is lying (or just mistaken).

    The only difference is the reason why, the intensity of the lie, and the frequency of the offense.


    Now as for your last question, as it relates to advertising...
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    How do you be honest when doing advertising?
    By not intentionally lying

    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    What does "True Story" mean?
    It means it is based on proof of fact

    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    who decides and how they decide the truthness of something?
    Kay King already answered that one...

    If the story happened - it's real.
    If you made it up - it's not real.

    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    Is it what works matters? then a story embellished to the point it is fake and it works - does that make it true?
    No. A lie told 1000 times does not make it true. Even if it becomes the accepted gospel of the masses it does not make it true. At that point it's just the dogma of conformity.

    If someone sells sugar pills as a cure for cancer, no matter how good the story, it does not make it true. (it just makes them a scumbag taking advantage of desperate people)

    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    honestly i think i lost the ability to distinguish the truth from false when it comes to advertising and stories...

    Any thoughts?
    Then for you, trust should not come from the story... It should come from the storyteller.
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

      Then for you, trust should not come from the story... It should come from the storyteller.
      This is a good point too. Thank you...
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

      If someone sells sugar pills as a cure for cancer, no matter how good the story, it does not make it true. (it just makes them a scumbag taking advantage of desperate people)
      I have heard someone telling a situation but not sure if it is really true but it illustrates the same point.

      It is about selling a Keto diet supplement but the actuall pill is sugar inside. lol

      But honestly as a marketer their goal is the conversion... now whether or not the product owner is doing the sugar pill or not... it is not under my direct control... and am i supposed to check the character of the product owner and don't you think it is like going over board to the point of dealing with things i have no control of?
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

        I have heard someone telling a situation but not sure if it is really true but it illustrates the same point.

        It is about selling a Keto diet supplement but the actuall pill is sugar inside. lol

        But honestly as a marketer their goal is the conversion... now whether or not the product owner is doing the sugar pill or not... it is not under my direct control... and am i supposed to check the character of the product owner and don't you think it is like going over board to the point of dealing with things i have no control of?
        After all the answers you've been given in this thread, I think now you're going overboard with nonsense questions.

        Maybe take the time to read the thread again...and, if affiliate marketing is too stressful for you then try starting with something simple like a blog.
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        • Profile picture of the author tacassim
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          After all the answers you've been given in this thread, I think now you're going overboard with nonsense questions.
          what do you mean by nonsense questions... I am trying to understand this and these things are not new in the conversations around this topic. the reason im asking is because i don't see a clear logical thinking around this yet. So i keep trying to understand. It is non of your business of course. But that is ok. It my way of learning something. If you cannot explain it. You can just ignore. What is the matter?
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          • Profile picture of the author max5ty
            Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

            what do you mean by nonsense questions... I am trying to understand this and these things are not new in the conversations around this topic. the reason im asking is because i don't see a clear logical thinking around this yet. So i keep trying to understand. It is non of your business of course. But that is ok. It my way of learning something. If you cannot explain it. You can just ignore. What is the matter?
            You've been given answer after answer by people that know what they're talking about and you still keep asking the same questions.

            You were told to buy the product and try it...then you come back and ask the same question you asked when you got that answer.

            You're just going around and around and I don't think anyone can give you an answer that you understand.

            As I said, you may want to start with something that isn't as stressful for you and something you understand better until you get more experience.
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            • Profile picture of the author tacassim
              Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


              As I said, you may want to start with something that isn't as stressful for you and something you understand better until you get more experience.
              Yes i am working on a blog these days... but i still keep getting confused about these things time to time. Maybe I will get over it and get things clear soon. However it is up to me to accept what and how i learn. You can never know or decide if the answers are not going to help or going to help me. I decide if it is helping me or not. After all i asked the questions and then i decide which will help me and which ones are not.
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              • Profile picture of the author max5ty
                Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

                Yes i am working on a blog these days... but i still keep getting confused about these things time to time. Maybe I will get over it and get things clear soon. However it is up to me to accept what and how i learn. You can never know or decide if the answers are not going to help or going to help me. I decide if it is helping me or not. After all i asked the questions and then i decide which will help me and which ones are not.
                Good luck with what you're working on.
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      • Profile picture of the author SARubin
        Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

        I have heard someone telling a situation but not sure if it is really true but it illustrates the same point.

        It is about selling a Keto diet supplement but the actuall pill is sugar inside. lol

        But honestly as a marketer their goal is the conversion... now whether or not the product owner is doing the sugar pill or not... it is not under my direct control... and am i supposed to check the character of the product owner and don't you think it is like going over board to the point of dealing with things i have no control of?
        But it is under your direct control whether you sell that vendors product, or not.

        If a vendor is dishonest, and you don't want to be dishonest, then pick a different vendor / product to promote.

        Now I have a question for you. It's an easy question, but you're the only one here who can answer it...


        Are you currently promoting something? Or are you just here for the conversation?

        Either answer is fine with me (no judgement here) I'm just curious because I'm not sure which direction this Q and A is supposed to be going.
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  • Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    Right now my conclusion is truth means truth within yourself. What is true for me. But i feel this conclusion is bit shaky too. But i don't see any other options right now either.
    The option is to tell the truth...the reality...and if you don't know the reality, find out.

    Selling and copywriting can be defined as "The Truth, well told."

    "What is true for me"? I have no idea what that means.

    But " What is true for my customers"? I know what that means. It means you don't fabricate facts and try to pass them off as true.

    Lies are not true, no matter how it makes you feel.

    The question isn't about truth.
    The real question is, are you comfortable lying to your prospects? Some people are.

    Another question is, how comfortable will you be when you get caught?
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


      The question isn't about truth.
      The real question is, are you comfortable lying to your prospects? Some people are.

      Another question is, how comfortable will you be when you get caught?
      I hope it is clear that my intent is not trying to lie to people right? So asking the question of how comfortable will i be when i get caught... does not make sense to me
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


      "What is true for me"? I have no idea what that means.

      But " What is true for my customers"? I know what that means. It means you don't fabricate facts and try to pass them off as true.
      This sounds interesting. But how do you know the facts? i mean how do i know the real facts and filter them from the false ones? how do i know the facts are true? after all what is true for my customers is a different world which i cannot verify for myself...
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      • Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

        This sounds interesting. But how do you know the facts? i mean how do i know the real facts and filter them from the false ones? how do i know the facts are true? after all what is true for my customers is a different world which i cannot verify for myself...
        You were talking about marketing.

        It's almost impossible to sell a product or service and not know if what you say about it is accurate.

        And the stories you get about the offer are either created by you, or are really from customers.

        A "True" story about yourself is one that really happened and is told accurately. Although you can tell it well, in it's best light.

        The best way to know if what you are saying is the truth, is simply not include anything you aren't sure of. Any decent offer will give you far more than you need without making anything up. Facts you can check from credible sources.

        One interesting thing about facts is that they are consistent and are still true, even if attacked from all angles. Logic and arguments only make facts more evident to a rational person.

        If you aren't sure if the source is credible, just quote the source and credit the source. Soon, if it's wrong, someone will point it out to you.



        Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

        let me rephrase the question... how do i make sure that I don't lie in marketing and advertising?
        You know if you are lying or telling the truth. A possible exception is testimonials, or quotes from others. Then all you can do is accurately report what they said.


        Added later; Maybe I'm, not understanding.

        Do you really mean how do you know if the source of your information is accurate or if they are making claim up?

        Because that's a different subject than we have been discussing.
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        • Profile picture of the author tacassim
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


          Added later; Maybe I'm, not understanding.

          Do you really mean how do you know if the source of your information is accurate or if they are making claim up?

          Because that's a different subject than we have been discussing.
          Yes so based on what i understand - the source of information is what we are trying to critical think... right?

          How I know if this is credible or not is based on my own research and my own gut feeling of whether or not this source is telling the true info or not. Am i correct?

          On a side note, have you seen web sites having author personas for the web site? For example - My name is Sarah, I love keto diet and i created this site for sharing my keto recipes with you... But in fact this is written and the site is created by a man.

          Do you consider this a lie? or can we argue that this is an embellishment of the truth of the market that they love keto diet and creating a persona that loves keto diet?
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          • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
            Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

            On a side note, have you seen web sites having author personas for the web site? For example - My name is Sarah, I love keto diet and i created this site for sharing my keto recipes with you... But in fact this is written and the site is created by a man.
            ?
            If someone is passing themself off as a woman and they are making sales are they hurting anybody? That's for the buyers to decide. This forum in the past had men posting under women's names supposedly. We won't even get into it if someone converts their sex. They got away with it and made sales.

            Ghostwriters that write under a different name, theirs's nothing wrong with that in my book. Most would agree with that statement.

            If someone is selling Keto trying to pass themself off as an expert but is not, most people will recognize that. Nobody would want to find out that someone claiming to be a doctor is not, that's a fraud. Let's face the fact if you were sick. You're going to want to get advice from a doctor over someone who is not. Just out of curiosity the example you posted, is that what you are doing?
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            • Profile picture of the author tacassim
              Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

              Just out of curiosity the example you posted, is that what you are doing?
              What do you mean by is that what you doing? What do you mean by 'That'? Are you meaning im trying to create a female persona to promote keto diet products? Then the answer is no. maybe i will consider that later... That keto diet niche is still interesting for me - so i might look into it in future. Did i answer your question?
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    • Profile picture of the author SARubin
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


      The question isn't about truth.
      The real question is, are you comfortable lying to your prospects? Some people are.

      Another question is, how comfortable will you be when you get caught?
      Yup. I remember about 30 years ago meeting a man named Zig Ziglar, a brilliant salesman and one of the nicest guy I ever met, and one of the things we talked about during the few minutes we shared was about honesty and ethics in sales.

      One thing he said to me stuck with me to this day. He said if you lie to people one time, about one thing, and get caught, everything you say from that point on will have a question mark hanging over it.

      It made sense to me then, and it still makes sense to me now.


      Earlier when I said everybody lies sometimes I was speaking in a general sense, because the OP was asking what seemed like philosophical questions, rather than sales or marketing questions.
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  • Prolly the line between fact an' fiction stretches way beyond all vanishin' points of existence.

    Question is, who do you believe along the way?

    All I know is, nowan died out in Waco back in the day can benefit from any shade of our viewpoints.

    Even on WF.

    Such is the gravity of story.
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  • Profile picture of the author tacassim
    let me rephrase the question... how do i make sure that I don't lie in marketing and advertising?
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  • Profile picture of the author rahulkapoorr
    Just make sure that claims are truthful, backed by evidence, and not misleading. Be transparent about your products or services.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    On a side note, have you seen web sites having author personas for the web site? For example - My name is Sarah, I love keto diet and i created this site for sharing my keto recipes with you... But in fact this is written and the site is created by a man.

    Do you consider this a lie? or can we argue that this is an embellishment of the truth of the market that they love keto diet and creating a persona that loves keto diet?

    Would I believe it? Nope. But doesn't matter as that is not MY WEBSITE. I'm only responsible for what claims I make...not for what others do.
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Would I believe it? Nope. But doesn't matter as that is not MY WEBSITE. I'm only responsible for what claims I make...not for what others do.
      well then i can make it more believable for my web site then lol
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Best I can tell after reading back through your comments...you're asking how to know if the company/people behind the products you offer as an affiliate are being honest in their marketing?...

    on that, I would say you need to do your research and stick with reputable products. There is nobody that can answer whether they are on the up and up or not without knowing them or researching them.

    As far as ethics in marketing, that's a subject that would take pages and pages to cover. It's not a simple single answer. There are too many moving parts and situations that can't be explained in a single post.

    Some will say you can't use a fake story to sell a product...

    yet, the famous Wall Street Journal letter that sold over 2 billion dollars worth of subscriptions and ran for years and years was made up. And by the way, was swiped from another letter. Was that ethical?

    Companies pay big money to have their product seen in a movie about star wars...since the movie isn't true, are they using a made-up story to sell their products?

    One of the first guys that wrote a book and website about picking up women used a pen name and fake persona to make millions...was that ethical?

    Several authors have used pen names...some with fake personas.

    Marketers have used pen names and different personas for different genres.

    There's a female persona that was created with deepfake that has over 1 million followers on Instagram...she isn't real but gets paid tons of money to recommend a product...is that ethical?

    I could go on and on...

    I have a B.S. in marketing and can tell you there are so many sides to your question that there is no quick or easy answer.

    One thing that is an easy answer...your product better not have false or misleading claims...and had better stand the test of what you claim it will do.

    So, to wrap up my post...there are no quick answers when it comes to marketing ethics. There are too many moving parts.
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    • Profile picture of the author tacassim
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


      One thing that is an easy answer...your product better not have false or misleading claims...and had better stand the test of what you claim it will do.
      for example in a clickbank product - i can research many times... but i have no control over the product quality... so any amount of claim can never be 100% proven by me. It is upto the product owner to deliver the quality he states but i can never 100% be accurate of their claims...

      In that case what i supposed to do? How do you determine when something is misleading? Is it based on market research of the experience and emotions involved in the market? is that what counts as the accuracy of the research?
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

        for example in a clickbank product - i can research many times... but i have no control over the product quality... so any amount of claim can never be 100% proven by me. It is upto the product owner to deliver the quality he states but i can never 100% be accurate of their claims...

        In that case what i supposed to do? How do you determine when something is misleading? Is it based on market research of the experience and emotions involved in the market? is that what counts as the accuracy of the research?
        That's an easy one. Buy the product and examine or use it yourself. Then write your own sales copy if you want.

        But it's still unclear if you have specific instances in mind, or whether you're looking for a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth.
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        • Profile picture of the author tacassim
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          That's an easy one. Buy the product and examine or use it yourself. Then write your own sales copy if you want.
          mmm... That is an interesting point too...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rez Rahman
    Trust your gut feeling
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  • I think it's best to be honest
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  • Profile picture of the author Tommy Alfred
    Can stories be used vicariously? In other words, if I don't have personal experience about a particular product or service, but I can research and find stories that others have had, then would it be ethical to adopt that story? I love the responses here, a lot heart wrestling!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Using stories you 'find' may risk copyright violations. If you 'adapt' a story that isn't yours, it's your decision of where the 'lines' are.


    Do you need a 'fake' story to sell your product? Maybe it's the wrong product.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    If it happened to you, you know it's true. If you saw it happening to someone else, you know it's true.

    True, with your biases thrown in.

    Other than that, you do not know. You need to decide whether you trust the source or not.

    In real estate appraising, you're guilty of something if it is found that other appraisers in your area do not do that thing because they think it's wrong.

    In other areas, they say things like: would a reasonable person think, based on the information readily available to people at the time of the action, think that was true?

    So, it means you do research. Good research. If the research says it's likely to be true, you use it as true. As an added measure of security, you keep notes of where you got your info.

    You, as a marketer, are interested in conversions. But you, as a marketer, cannot be interested only in conversions. Because of morals and laws.

    Morals, I leave that to you. Laws, it only takes one person complaining about you to the right people the right way for you to end up in legal trouble. Which may mean, you lose all the money your conversions made you and more.

    Did you ever noticed ads that say, Dramatization? When you want to convert, to present a good story, and not to be legally or morally in a bind, you let people know what you're doing.

    If you're using a story that you know for a fact is true, you say so. If you are using a story you heard from someone and believe to be true, you say that.

    If you're using a story that you heard but have no idea if it's true or not, you say so.

    I can use a story about a weight loss product that converts that says, Hey, man, this story shows what this product can do. It was provided to me by the maker of the product.

    It will convert less well than other stories, because I'm not claiming it's true. But it will get some people interested all the same.

    By the way, you can start stories that you do not know are true with:
    Imagine you're... then you write your story. It's powerful. It makes no claim that it's a true story. You have no idea how strong people's imaginations are when they want them to be. And, when you're presenting to them a product that could fulfill their desire, they're often in the mood to imagine themselves getting the good results of that product.

    If something is not under your control but you could have known was fake, you can still get in trouble.

    If you have no idea (and a bit of research couldn't show you something wrong with the product), then, you don't have a problem.

    Even if someone was selling sugar as a cancer pill.

    Because, again, you had no way of knowing. And that's not something you can try on your own (unless you have the type of cancer that pill is for).

    The questions are:
    1. Do you care if something is true or not? (I.e., What kind of marketer (reputation) or person (reputation) do you want to be/become?) If you care, there's the other question:


    2. Do you know, or could have you known, if the product claims / stories are true or not? If the answer is no, you're fine; if it's yes, you pass.

    The way you make sure you're not lying:
    1. Do not say something you know not to be true
    2. Research things (make a good effort but don't spend your whole life). You are not a detective but you're not an idiot either.

    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    honestly i think i lost the ability to distinguish the truth from false when it comes to advertising and stories...
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    mostly in affiliate marketing - i dont think anybody goes around checking if the story happened or not.. they just care about the conversion...
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    let me rephrase the question... how do i make sure that I don't lie in marketing and advertising?
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    I have heard someone telling a situation but not sure if it is really true but it illustrates the same point.

    It is about selling a Keto diet supplement but the actuall pill is sugar inside. lol

    But honestly as a marketer their goal is the conversion... now whether or not the product owner is doing the sugar pill or not... it is not under my direct control... and am i supposed to check the character of the product owner and don't you think it is like going over board to the point of dealing with things i have no control of?
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    honestly i think i lost the ability to distinguish the truth from false when it comes to advertising and stories...
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    mostly in affiliate marketing - i dont think anybody goes around checking if the story happened or not.. they just care about the conversion...
    Originally Posted by tacassim View Post

    let me rephrase the question... how do i make sure that I don't lie in marketing and advertising?
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  • Gotta figyoore Greek mythology can help us all here.

    See, bcs you remembah Muddoosah, right?

    Evrywan knows that: the gal with the snakes.

    But, for many people, Perseus is kinda a trivia quiz question.

    * Purr-who? Am I missing something on Netflix here? *

    Such is the Gal With Snakes vs Guy With Daggah narrative.

    Anyways, seems Perseus warn't content with his way-back-when beheado glories.

    Dig deepah into Greek myth, an' you discovah his battle with Odyssaloumi, the mighty serpent controllin' Pluto's procreation rights.

    Bangin' discourse on slavery & dom, tellya.

    Thing is, dependin' on your sources, Perseus ventures to slay the serpent bcs

    a) his triumph ovah Muddoosah empowahs him to "grow himself"

    or

    b) his preoccupayschwaashwahn with snake stuffs drives him crayzee, like you eat one M&M an' then you gotta finish 'em ahf

    or

    c) store was shut, he bored offa his tits, an' neglected to prepare for the opportoonity by naht investin' in no gun.

    Anyways, fkr goes there: to sum quasi-wilderness Zeus garden bristlin' with all kindsa divine & non-divine chimerae.*

    An' he gets to slay the snake.

    What a triumph for the acclaimed mastah of serpentcraft!

    Problem is, Odyssaloumi was alive to the tips of her scales till'n Perseus did what he dun.

    An' a single scale from that serpent's eye embedded itself in Perseus' skull, bleedin' his brain till'n he died.

    (Course'n, it didn't -- you gotta remembah how Greek myth zackly that. HUSSTORY! My d'ohbrain parentheses, naht yours.)

    So: did Perseus die bcs he dissed Muddoosah's ass an' figured hisself all-powerful?

    Trad story says he invoked his powah ovah her ass when he enfeebled beyond all deloosion.

    He gazes at Muddoosah's rotted head -- an' dies.

    So why we hearin' this version of the story steada the torture the snake's scale inflicted as it buried itself slowly inta Perseus' braino?

    Ansa: bcs the version you mostly hear portrays Perseus as a less accidental kinda losah.

    An' I guess that is the seecrit of stories always.

    To be procreatively replicatorial way beyond their time & occasionally preview sum snake-slayin' nowan with a matchin' sword/leathahware combo.

    (Is this yr Thursday too? tbh natchrl froot jooce is yr gateway to powah.)

    How images an' woids pass before us,
    like we all kinda suddenyool ZAHMBO.
    Dig deepah, with zeal of a succubus,
    to the land of Olympiaschwango.



    * Wanna day jahb that place dowin' the admin? Thouagth naht.
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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