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Marshall Sylver

by Calamaroo
16 replies
"I am doing the other person a favor by persuading them" - Marshall Sylver

He said you're much better off being directive in persuasion. Refrain from "asking" for business, he says. People who "ask" either have low esteem or low confidence in what they're selling, he says.

Wow! I'm glad I didn't throw away these Marshall Sylver cassettes that I found at a thrift shop a few years ago.
#marshall #sylver
  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    "I am doing the other person a favor by persuading them" - Marshall Sylver
    Doesn't this totally depend on what you are persuading them to do?

    If you persuade them to drink poisoned Kool-Aid, are you really doing them a favor?

    Maybe we're missing the context of this quote.

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author Calamaroo
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      Doesn't this totally depend on what you are persuading them to do?

      If you persuade them to drink poisoned Kool-Aid, are you really doing them a favor?

      Maybe we're missing the context of this quote.

      Marcia Yudkin
      He's talking about the attitudes of professional salespeople in general who sell good products. He says they should have confidence similar to a snobbish maitre'd of an excellent restaurant who knows his foods and service are the best in town.

      It is presupposed that you should only sell products that you truly believe in.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        That's not what Marshall is saying at all there. He suggests pitching your wares or services in a way where you don't have to ask for the sale at the end of the conversation. Very easily done through assertions. If you assert yourself and your product your client will naturally purchase without you having to ask them for it. I personally haven't asked for a sale from a prospect in a face to face or telephone meeting in over five years.
        This is a copywriting forum. Here we are discussing ways to persuade people through words when we are NOT face to face.

        I don't understand how your point applies in copywriting.

        I also don't agree that adopting the attitude of a snobby maitre d' in the best restaurant in town is what works across the board. It depends on your audience.

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
          Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

          This is a copywriting forum. Here we are discussing ways to persuade people through words when we are NOT face to face.

          I don't understand how your point applies in copywriting.

          I also don't agree that adopting the attitude of a snobby maitre d' in the best restaurant in town is what works across the board. It depends on your audience.

          Marcia Yudkin
          You got there before me: Exactly what I was thinking.

          Also, regarding the maitre d' point, there's a difference between being confident and arrogant. Which is where the snobbishness comes from.

          Also...

          People who "ask" either have low esteem or low confidence in what they're selling, he says.
          I'd say that's pretty much to the point.

          Edit: I've worked in sales and I'm wondering how you would get the sale if you don't ask for it. Unless you have a product the prospect already needed and had made up his mind to buy.

          Every sales person I know, and every trainer I've met, always says to ask for the sale.

          That doesn't mean asking things like, "Do you want it," or, "Please buy it."

          Just asking, "What colour would you like?" or "How will you pay for it?" is asking for the sale because you're asking them to make a buying decision.

          I'd like to know what constitutes 'not asking' for the sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Marcia,

    We're not missing anything. The quote is a load of rubbish.

    He's literally saying all successful business people who ask for the sale have low self esteem or crappy products. Tell that to them.

    I've heard Sylver's stuff and I wouldn't waste my money on them.
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

      Marcia,

      We're not missing anything. The quote is a load of rubbish.

      He's literally saying all successful business people who ask for the sale have low self esteem or crappy products. Tell that to them.

      I've heard Sylver's stuff and I wouldn't waste my money on them.
      That's not what Marshall is saying at all there. He suggests pitching your wares or services in a way where you don't have to ask for the sale at the end of the conversation. Very easily done through assertions. If you assert yourself and your product your client will naturally purchase without you having to ask them for it. I personally haven't asked for a sale from a prospect in a face to face or telephone meeting in over five years. Does it mean I'm not making any sales? Not at all as I close 75% pretty steadily. I repeat...those who have to ask for the sale usually are not assertive enough to employ this type of tactic. That's what I think Marshall meant in his statement.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

      Marcia,

      We're not missing anything. The quote is a load of rubbish.

      He's literally saying all successful business people who ask for the sale have low self esteem or crappy products. Tell that to them.

      I've heard Sylver's stuff and I wouldn't waste my money on them.
      I'm quoting myself for a reason: I want to correct what I said earlier.

      1. While I still think the quote is not right, based on only that information. To make sense you have to expand and explain.
      2. I said I wouldn't buy Sylver's stuff because I had seen them before and thought he was rubbish. That was a case of mistaken identity. After reading all the other comments I decided to do a little investigating. And it was someone else I was thinking of. The other guy had a full head of hair, as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    All I know is... this guy is a master salesman from to the highest degree. Good to see his name pop up on the forum. Holy cow this guy is GOOD.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    I'm having an interesting discussion with Glenn Osborn on the use of Fascination and Mirror Neurons at my discussion forum. Both techiques, along with NLP (in my opinion) are not as effective in print. Radio and TV may have some wiggle room.

    The point?

    It is, so much harder, maybe a gazillion or more times (???) harder to convince and persuade someone by Remote Means than it is to "sell" them something face to face.

    A practiced magician in "cold reading" or "mentalism" or stage hypnosis can get people to do strange things.

    A person trained in Perception and Salesmanship can pace and lead someone to a buying state of mind. NLP can be effective in sales situations. As can the premise by Sylver.

    Confidence translates across the neuronic oceans between people and is one of those hidden persuaders we don't often acknowledge.

    You don't get the valuable feedback in Print. Or on the Web. Some think VIDEO covers this, but any one way street of communication is going to leave a large percentage of people on the sidewalk totally disinterested in the street transaction.

    The best a copywriter can hope for is to create a promotion with a significant number of conversions to cover the expenses and/or make a profit or build a list.

    It isn't that hard to convert 50% or higher, even in a COLD call situation using Sales Techinque (whatever you use) but that so-called "Salesmanship in Print" isn't translated to Remote attempts to sell something. A very small percent could be enough to make the effort worthwhile. And that is what is "scientific" about direct response, you can measure response.

    KNOWING and having used a face to face sales technique which is successful, arms the copywriter with a KNOWLEDGE of the sale process and he must allow for the twists and turns and loss of attention you can overcome in a face to face sales attempt.

    Which is why, until it is tested in the market, it is, at best, an educated guess. Albeit, some educated guesses are worth more than others.

    gjabiz

    PS. I "get" what Marshall was saying, it is a variation of something he "lifted" from Zig Ziglar (the story about selling the poor old woman some expensive china, it made her so happy to spend most of her fixed income on it).
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I only mentioned the face to face aspect of selling because that's where I make a lot of my money. But the point stands whether its fcf or copy on your website. When you present your wares in a way where you have to ask for the sale an the end you're limiting your conversions big time. Instead write it in a way where the prospect wants what you have without you even asking him or her if they want it. It will just be expected.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      I only mentioned the face to face aspect of selling because that's where I make a lot of my money. But the point stands whether its fcf or copy on your website. When you present your wares in a way where you have to ask for the sale an the end you're limiting your conversions big time. Instead write it in a way where the prospect wants what you have without you even asking him or her if they want it. It will just be expected.
      A well written direct response marketing piece ALWAYS has a call to action.

      One of the advanced copywriting techniques I've seen Gary Halbert use in sales copy is "take-away selling". He leaves the reader with the impression that they need to purchase more than he needs the sale. However, even those sales letters had a call to action.

      Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelhearne
    who cares what Sylver is talking about??? what does he do?

    i've seen him get a crowd on their feet, screaming and yelling to get his product and then watched them line up to buy at the back of the room... and when he did that - guess what - he asked for the sale... well, i guess you could argue that he told them to buy, because he told them to get up and get to the back of the room right now and buy his s&*t...

    This guy is truly a master of selling from the stage... and he always has a call to action...

    btw - dude, i was trying to keep notes on all the "influence" tactics he was using while speaking (yeah, i'm a nerd and i'd just finished Cialdini's book), but it was too much - he uses every trick i've ever heard of - and probably a few i don't know...

    and he apparently makes bank... so i think i'd take what he is saying very seriously - just make sure you really understand what he's saying???

    anyways, i lost myself about two paragraphs ago... i'm going to bed...

    PEACE
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Axelrod
      I've seen Marshall Sylver onstage. Good guy, good salesman, good hypnotist. I was one of the people invited onstage for his show. During his induction, I could hear the sounds of his voice, but I couldn't hear the words anymore. Then my body went limp and I felt like I fell down on a pile of cushions. When I came back to reality, the people nearby told me I just fell hard on the floor. No more stage hypnosis volunteering for me. :-)

      Anyway, I think what Marshall's trying to say is that it's better to direct your customer to buy than put it in question form. For example. "I suggest you buy two stereos for your party," is better than "Would you like two stereos?" or "Can I put an order out for two stereos for you?"

      As for "I'm doing them a favor by persuading them,"... I think that's a rather controlling statement. "I know what's best for you, so I'll manipulate you to buy from me.' It's a rationalization for manipulative sales tactics. There is always a balance in sales between confidently recommending your product, and manipulating your prospect to buy from you whether he needs your product or not.

      This is why as a copywriter, I only write for people who's products I believe in. If I'm talking to an infomarketer who I can tell has never succeeded with his or her own information, I won't take him or her as a client.

      You really have to know yourself in this regard, even from a practicality standpoint, if not an ethical one. If you are basically ammoral in your values, you can make a lot of money with shady sales tactics and you'll be basically ok. However, if you have strong moral values, then even if you make money from manipulation, your internal karma will lead you to self-sabotage yourself in the future to compensate for your "sins."

      Anyway, I do like Marshall Sylver, and recommend you see him perform. He puts on quite a show.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by michaelhearne View Post

      who cares what Sylver is talking about??? what does he do?

      i've seen him get a crowd on their feet, screaming and yelling to get his product and then watched them line up to buy at the back of the room... and when he did that - guess what - he asked for the sale... well, i guess you could argue that he told them to buy, because he told them to get up and get to the back of the room right now and buy his s&*t...

      This guy is truly a master of selling from the stage... and he always has a call to action...

      btw - dude, i was trying to keep notes on all the "influence" tactics he was using while speaking (yeah, i'm a nerd and i'd just finished Cialdini's book), but it was too much - he uses every trick i've ever heard of - and probably a few i don't know...

      and he apparently makes bank... so i think i'd take what he is saying very seriously - just make sure you really understand what he's saying???

      anyways, i lost myself about two paragraphs ago... i'm going to bed...

      PEACE
      that's how i know about him too haha...

      he sold like half the room at a seminar i was at
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      • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
        Actually the OP is quite right.

        If you're selling a product that you KNOW does what you claim it does, and WILL improve the prospect's life somehow then you are doing them a favour by selling it to them.

        So if you truly believe your prospect's life will improve then you should be doing whatever it takes to improve their life, because you will be doing them a disservice if you do not give it your best shot.

        You making the sale with improve their life.

        I'd hate to think people on here have products which they know will NOT improve their buyer's life in some way.
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    There's a Louis Theroux documentary about hypnosis featuring this fellow...


    Pretty interesting.

    Colm
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