How do you handle refunds?

14 years ago

It's definitely a possibility. But, as you're going to hear from many people here, don't waste your time and energy thinking about it. No matter what you sell, you're going to get a few people who want it for nothing and will stop at nothing to get it.

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AFD

14 years ago

Originally Posted by esr

It's definitely a possibility. But, as you're going to hear from many people here, don't waste your time and energy thinking about it. No matter what you sell, you're going to get a few people who want it for nothing and will stop at nothing to get it.

No, its not a big deal to me.. Of course its expected, and since we are selling digital products, we should take it lightly... unless there is a program that can protect digital sellers.. If paypal has a special rules on digitalproducts, I think we can minimize the suckers..

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abelacts

14 years ago

Paypal is only on your side if you have a physical product and shipping. A workaround is to sell your digital product on a CD.

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BIG Mike

Banned 14 years ago

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AFD

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Sorry, but you're wrong - PayPal will not take sides in a dispute involving non-tangible, digital goods. In other words, they will not force you to provide a refund for digital products.

That said however, if you are offering refunds on your sales page, you're obligated to honor them.

If the buyer ask refund and the seller won't do a refund, the seller then files a dispute... That's how paypal make money... Expect paypal to hold the money until both the seller and the buyer give-up...

My most expensive product before costs $175 with 20-copies limited... One of the buyers asked a refund and I found it strange.. He asked refund right after he downloaded the product... I was tough that time and let paypal hold the money... After 2 months I emailed him and I explained that there is no way for him to get his money back unless I agree... I was able to convince him to drop the dispute for a 50% refund

... We splitted the fund instead of letting pp to hold it forever... He got my products so I think it's fair to both of us...

But I will not do that anymore for smaller amount...

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BIG Mike Banned 14 years ago

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- All Night Cafe 14 years ago
  
  I agree with Big Mike, if you offer a refund on your sales
  letter, you have to give one.
  
  Thanks
  
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- AFD 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BIG Mike
  
  The question begs though, did your sales page offer a refund?
  
  Yes of course...
  
  But that product was a software and 10-day trial was offered... and my refund policy says "if you are not satisfied after 30 days"... how come he ask a refund after testing the trial version for 10 days (and was satisfied that's why he purchased)... If he was patient and asked me after 30 days with proof that my product was not working, then I'd be happy to give him full refund... But asking a refund after getting a license for tested product I think is a deliberate sucking... Just my 2 cents... If it was a ebook, I wills end his money back in full with bonus..
  
  .additionally, his reason was "I think I'm too noob for your product" LOL.. so the trial was useless?...
  
  Thanks
  
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abelacts

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Sorry, but you're wrong - PayPal will not take sides in a dispute involving non-tangible, digital goods. In other words, they will not force you to provide a refund for digital products.

That said however, if you are offering refunds on your sales page, you're obligated to honor them.

Thanks for spotting, Big Mike. Let me correct myself. What I meant was you will only have a case (dispute), not PP is on your side.

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Silas Hart

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Sorry, but you're wrong - PayPal will not take sides in a dispute involving non-tangible, digital goods. In other words, they will not force you to provide a refund for digital products.

That said however, if you are offering refunds on your sales page, you're obligated to honor them.

I completely disagree.

PayPal is not supportive of non-tangible items, and have told me so personally. This is for the same reasons that eBay is not supportive of digital items.

If you did the math to find a percentage of disputes that resulted in either a refund or non-refund, with both sides providing concrete evidence, you will undoubtedly find that PayPal will side with the 'buyer' and be more inclined to refund money paid for non-tangible items.

I'll tell you why.

Often times, products are paid through a Debit or Credit Card, and Visa/MasterCard have the ability to force a charge-back while PayPal has no actual leverage. If Visa calls PayPal and says "We are processing a charge-back from Mr Smith who was paid by Mr Brown. Please make sure Mr Brown gets his money back." PayPal can NOT say "No." All they can do is provide Information and Proof to Visa to assist them in THEIR investigation. This is why PayPal loves when you print shipping labels through them, and provides them with more information about your products.

Secondly, Digital Items and Subscriptions have a high refund rate anyways. If it didn't, companies such as CCBill would not charge such high transaction fee's for their merchant transaction services. PayPal knows digital items are a risk.

PayPal does NOT protect or offer insurance for money sent or received for intangible items. They clearly state this under FOUR OUT OF NINE Categories that relate to IM and digital products under PayPals own Buyer Protection Policy.

PayPal Buyer Protection

Ineligible item categories:
- Any item that is prohibited under the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
- Intangibles
- Services
- Custom made items
- Airline flight tickets
- eBay classified advertisements
- Licenses and other access to digital content
- Cars
- Real estate

But wait, you are talking about Selling, Not Buying. Lets check out PayPals Seller Protection rules.

To be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection:

What's not covered:

Items picked up locally or delivered in person
Services, intangible items, and digital goods
Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described

They clearly state it.

This all means that if someone who bought a digital product through PayPal will receive their money back, and the seller will Not receive the money due to both parties violating PayPals terms, and because PayPal can't keep the money just because one of the said parties broke their rules would be illegal, in just about every country. Because of this, the Buyer will get their money back, because they sure wont give it to the seller "just because they have proof they sent it."

Thanks

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AndyBlackSEO 14 years ago

Originally Posted by abelacts

Paypal is only on your side if you have a physical product and shipping. A workaround is to sell your digital product on a CD.

But who would want o wait for a CD? Unless they automatically get the digital download and the CD. This means more work involved though in sending them out, more costs for postage and also, you don't know what excuse people will use to get their refund.

I think unfortunately, it's just one of those things that we all have to deal with. For me it's quite minimal, with some of my products not even having a single refund as of yet BUT I don't want to speak too soon.

Some people though will have every intention of buying and getting a refund straight away so they can get the product for free and then move onto the next product.
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Derek Allen

14 years ago

I never argue. I just give it to them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

I use DLGuard. I give them a refund if they ask for it and ban them in DLGuard from ever purchasing anything from me again. At least I don't have any serial refunders.

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Tony Hetherington

14 years ago

I only want customers that like what I do that will stay with me a long time. If you want a refund then ok but bye bye. The only refund I've given so far this year was a to a guy who accidentally ordered twice.

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greff

14 years ago

I pay them, instantly. My time is more valuable than spent discussing the issue.

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talfighel

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AFD

I noticed most people who requests refunds have unverified PP accounts... Do you think this is intentional? That they create free PP account and then use it in getting people's products for free?

afd

Yeah, people do that all the time. They even order products through Clickbank and know that they will ask for a refund just to see the product on the back-end.

There is not much you can do with these people.

I have a few people on my list who buy something from me, then ask for a refund. Then they go to another product and order that too. 1 hour later, they want a refund again. I hate people like that who just buy stuff and then intentionally ask for a refund.

So I just delete these people from my list and let them go on their way.

Tal

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Mukul Verma

14 years ago

I give the refund right away as this should not be even close to hitting your bottom line.

It is not that paypal favors the buyer, it is the credit card company favors the buyer, therefore paypal gives the buyers money back.

Cheers,
Mukul

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AFD

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mukul Verma

I give the refund right away as this should not be even close to hitting your bottom line.

It is not that paypal favors the buyer, it is the credit card company favors the buyer, therefore paypal gives the buyers money back.

Cheers,
Mukul

Thank god I am using debit card with minimum balance

Thanks

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MarketingSPY

14 years ago

It's simple: Honor refunds according to your guarantee.

No matter what - we always honor refunds - no questions asked. However, we seldom receive a refund request. If so, it's usually someone who didn't understand what they were purchasing. (maybe that's my fault). We always try to make it very clear on all our websites exaclty what the product is about....however, sometimes you just can't please everyone.

Happy Trails....

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