Reputations Have a Trickle Down Impact

George Wright

14 years ago

We can certainly see why Allen has rule one and other rules and caveats in place.

Good Advice,

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George Wright

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bay37

14 years ago

Tiffany,

Isn't that a "given"? I mean, just like in real life... I don't see any difference.

It's a good thing that you've built a great relationship with your list - it could've been a lot worse. I quality list is very hard to build, but so easy to kill.

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Hi Tiffany,

This is nothing more than the age-old problem of "guilt by association". I'm not saying it's right, obviously, but I don't see it going away any time soon.

However, there is a difference. With the internet, we have more people to associate with than ever before. Add in even one or two degrees of separation and it's amazing that situations like this don't happen more often.

There may be some nuances in the case you mention, but I see it as nothing more than a variation on something that's been around forever. I don't agree with it, but what can you do? (Actually, that's a good question worth exploring)

On the other hand, I have seen this happen in reverse. In fact, one of my favorite comments I received in regards to something I'm selling is, "I have heard a lot of good things about you."

All the best,
Michael

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tpw

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Tiffany,

This is nothing more than the age-old problem of "guilt by association". I'm not saying it's right, obviously, but I don't see it going away any time soon.

However, there is a difference. With the internet, we have more people to associate with than ever before. Add in even one or two degrees of separation and it's amazing that situations like this don't happen more often.

There may be some nuances in the case you mention, but I see it as nothing more than a variation on something that's been around forever. I don't agree with it, but what can you do? (Actually, that's a good question worth exploring)

I had this dispute with my father as a teenager... Right or wrong, it left a lasting impression on me...

My dad asked me why I chose to remain friends with so-and-so, because he was friends with that kid I did not like...

I told my dad that so-and-so was my friend, not my puppet...

Since he was my friend, I was not going to even attempt to try to control him and to force him not to be friends with people that I did not care for...

The "guilt by association" is a fun game that people like to play, but it is also a game I refuse to play...

If I respect my friend, I respect him enough to allow him to make his own associations and mistakes...

Trying to wrap a collar around my friend's throat and puppet strings to his hands will make my friend less of a person than what he was when I chose him as my friend... And if he would be willing to be my puppet, he is no longer the caliber of a person that I would choose as my friend...

If "guilt by association" was truly a reliable judge of character, then I could never have the friends that I have... Those who know me well also know that I don't have a prejudiced bone in my body, but I came from a family of racists... If I am to be considered a racist because my dad, my grandma and grandpa, and my aunts and uncles were, then we would have to cut my friend's list by 2/3rds...

"Guilt by Association" is a crock of sh*t, and if you think it is right to play that game with me, you are a little-minded person and I don't need you in my world...

Tiffany... I would have handled your situation similar but different I am sure...

I would have told my list:

I made the recommendation because my friend is smart and of excellent character, but I am never going to be there to babysit all of his decisions...

I have made mistakes in the past, and I am sure you have too... We have judged people worthy, who in the end were unworthy... It is just the nature of life...

To my knowledge, only one person who has ever lived upon this earth was deemed to be without flaw...

I certainly cannot stand in his shoes, and yet you trust my character...

My friend also cannot stand in his shoes, and yet I trust his character...

Those of you without flaw, please throw the first stone... UNSUBSCRIBE HERE

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abhi1

14 years ago

That is so very true.

That's for the tip Tiffany. Next time I go about promoting someone's offer,
I'm gonna make sure that I informing my subs that I'm not promoting the person or
his complete product line...

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TiffanyLambert

14 years ago

I've been promoting for years and this is the first instance I've personally had where it was such a strong email reply back to me about this issue. I just always ASSumed people knew when you promote, you're just endorsing what you said you were promoting, not everything that person promotes, etc.

You're right Michael, it works in reverse - very good! I just think maybe (especially with newer marketers), we need to explain this concept like a disclaimer almost - so they know.

Trust is such a fragile commodity.
tiff

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Tiffany,

Here's the rub: Any disclaimer in a circumstance like that will poison the recommendation. People will assume there's a basis for it.

Paul

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TiffanyLambert 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Tiffany,

Here's the rub: Any disclaimer in a circumstance like that will poison the recommendation. People will assume there's a basis for it.

Paul

Well true. But I guess that's a risk I'll have to take. Not sure but if I find another solution, I'll let you know. lol

I got another email just now saying the guy unsubbed from a reputable marketer's list simply because of the company he kept.

I've done some disclaimers before, like saying, "you know I'm not part of the good old boys club, but this product really is good, etc..." but only when I know it's something everyone's going to be promoting.

I think if I explain it good enough, maybe it won't hurt, but I'll test it and see!
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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

I've been promoting for years and this is the first instance I've personally had where it was such a strong email reply back to me about this issue. I just always ASSumed people knew when you promote, you're just endorsing what you said you were promoting, not everything that person promotes, etc.

Most people do know that, but some prefer blaming others for the decisions they make that result in outcomes they don't like, rather than taking responsibility for those decisions themselves.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Tiffany,

Here's the rub: Any disclaimer in a circumstance like that will poison the recommendation. People will assume there's a basis for it.

That is no doubt true. Rather than make an issue of it, you might consider adding a brief boilerplate disclaimer at the end of your mailings that simply reminds them to do their due diligence. You could add that when you endorse one product you are not endorsing anything beyond that one product if that's a big concern for you.

Every once in a while when I'm not promoting anything other than my own products, I'll throw in a blurb to remind people I don't run a background check on every advertiser or vendor whose product I endorse. I weed out the obvious scammers, but if someone offers a great product and I use it and endorse, that's all I'm putting my stamp of approval on. The connection ends there.

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Michael Oksa 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Tiffany,

Here's the rub: Any disclaimer in a circumstance like that will poison the recommendation. People will assume there's a basis for it.

Paul

I believe you're right, Paul.

Tiffany,

The way I see it, you won't be very likely to dissuade those who would try to call you out on it anyway, so you don't really come out ahead. Let's say for the sake of argument you were able to keep subscribers from leaving due to such a reminder.

However, you will be planting a seed in the minds of those who would never dream of accusing you of guilt by association. I think that could potentially lead to many more people leaving your list (just a guess).

On a slightly related note: That's why I don;t use the phrase "before you leave" on my sales pages; I don't want to be the one giving my visitors that idea.

So, it's ultimately up to you and you know your list better than anybody else, but to me it seems that trying to preventatively save face with a few, will lead you to lose face with many.

All the best,
Michael
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KenThompson

14 years ago

It's impossible to cover all bases, be omniscient, or really be expected
to carry responsibility for what someone else does that is several times
removed from your involvement.

I believe most reasonable people would understand you're not aware
of everything the recommended marketer does in all aspects of his
business.

Michael has a good point. And perception is powerful in all aspects of life.
But some will react however they will choose to react no matter what
is done by anyone. Can't control it.

By the way, I've been referred to marketers who turned out to not be my
cup of tea. Just unsubscribed, forgotten - no problem.

Ken

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Tiffany,

I got another email just now saying the guy unsubbed from a reputable marketer's list simply because of the company he kept.

Trying to please everyone is a sucker's bet. You'll lose it every time.

Keep in mind that the people who email you with things like this are generally not at all representative of your desired subscriber base. There may be exceptions, but they're just that. Exceptions.

The same thing happens in this forum. 3 people decide they don't like a product that 1,000 people like, and the ratio tilts it so that it looks like those 3 are the majority. People complain and others give credence to those complaints, with no thought to the basis for them or for their validity. It's a fear response.

It's happened to me with my subscribers many times. There is no-one you can recommend who someone won't have a problem with. The less rational the problem, the greater the likelihood that you'll hear about it, and the more forcefully it will be stated.

People are, to steal a phrase, predictably irrational.

Paul
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TiffanyLambert

14 years ago

Ken I'm like you - I unsub if I don't like it, etc.

Paul yep can't get into people pleasing for sure. I wonder why this ONE time I got a flurry of emails? It's odd. Never happened before.

I'm definitely not going to not promote someone just because of what else they promote. I told my subscribers that. I just want to educate them that I'm not giving the person a blank check for everything he does, which is I think what some of them think I'm doing if I endorse someone.

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x3xsolxdierx3x

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

Hi Warriors!

I want to open up a discussion about something I am just now noticing in my own business. Something to be aware of and cautious about...

I recently promoted a marketer's product. I love the marketer. I love the product. No problem there.

So now my subscribers are also on this person's list.

That marketer starts promoting a marketer who has a tarnished reputation. So MY subscribers start emailing me saying, "Hey that guy you promoted is telling me to buy from this other crappy guy, so you shouldn't promote the original marketer anymore because his ethics aren't solid."

Whoops!

Now how I just handled it is to notify my subscribers that I'm not a blank check kinda girl. When I promote someone and their something, I'm ONLY promoting that someone's something, not their entire line of products, not their entire future affiliate promotion emails, etc.

Be aware that when you promote someone, you're telling people they can TRUST this marketer too, NOT just that this one product is good, so from now on, I'm going to be specifically reminding people about this.

Many of my customers got burned because they bought the item this guy was promoting from another marketer and it was trash (so they emailed the original source - me).

Tiff

Good idea. I'd definitely do whatever I could to avoid this occuring to my audience. A bit of a disclosure, in each promotion, may be warranted to cover yourself: "I am promoting this person's product because it is a great product....even still, there is no way I can accurately predict the quality of future products...for this product, though, this IM'er knocked it out of the park..."

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Ken Leatherman

14 years ago

Tiffiany,

I'm in agreement with Paul on your disclosure may cause more of a headache than it will solve the problem of a few complainers.

If you feel this strongly about it, consider responding to the ones that complained and give them the "I do not Blanket Endorse" spill.

Don't put smoke where there is no fire.

Ken Leatherman

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Neil12

14 years ago

It does seem like the people who relpied in that manner were being a bit weak, and as Im a newcomer, i'm hoping we should be taking these things with a pinch of salt. Maybe turn it on it's head and hit them with a really good product as it'll look even stronger in comparison to the poor product.

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NicheMayhem 14 years ago

Not long ago I was sent an offer for "the next big thing" and went to check out a recorded seminar. I know I cannot name names here but the person was selling a system which taught you how to pretty much copy an entire sales funnel and re-brand it as your own, squeeze, sales, everything. The method is there for all of us sure but this guy knew how to capture all the info from Clickbank and get everything set up almost as if you the affiliate, were actually the vendor.

His pitch was actually, "Why would you want to do all the hard work yourself?"

I promptly jotted down his name, his company and anything else I could associate with him including the person who sent me there to look at it, and unsubscribed aiming to avoid them like the plague.

If you value your list I would be sure to check into all offers at least before clicking the send button.

Was it guilt by association for the person who's list I was on to start with?

I think not nor do I think it is too much to ask for people to actually look into an offer before they send it out. There is a fine line between being ethical and making money anyway you can, the choice is left to all of us to decide which is more important.
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