Enforcing the age limit here: You must be 18+ to be a member

by 146 replies
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Okay. This probably sucks more than any post I've made here, but it has to happen:

If you are under the age of 18, or claim to be, you can no longer post here. That includes both the paid advertising and the discussion sections. And no, it does not matter if the minimum age requirement in your country is different than in the US.

We didn't pay much attention to this for quite a while, mostly because we know the majority of people claiming to be under 18 are faking their age to create a chosen "persona," and we have no way to know the real age of any poster.

This has to do with contracts and agreements, not anyone's intelligence or maturity. And I hate it as much as anyone. But, there it is.

I'll let the legal beagles explain it, if they like.

The trigger was the presence of someone claiming to be 12 years old. That's not even old enough to sign up at any site that collects data on members without a parent's permission, much less to enter into legal agreements.

And no, we will not amend it to fit the COPPA standard of 13+. Again, this is a business forum, and being active here involves contracts. Which include the one you agree to when you join.

Sorry, folks. I truly am.


Paul
#main internet marketing discussion forum #age #enforcing #limit #member
  • Administrator
    Yes this is really hard. Especially since there are some 16 year olds that work harder and in many cases 'smarter' than most grown ups I know.
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    • Allen,And are often better behaved...


      Paul
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  • ahhh that is too bad - I recently bought a website off of a 16 year old who blew me away with some of the stuff he had been up to. Wish I had of had that sort of insight/foresight when I was 16 !!
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    • lol

      Be careful a 16 year old can take that site back any time they feel like far as I know, but I'm no lawyer.
  • Sigh... sad but true...
  • Children's Online Privacy Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and

    COPPA - Children's Online Privacy Protection
  • Banned
    Small silver lining: the smart and talented kids will find a way to keep on keeping on. Not suggesting rule breaking or anything like that, but saying some are smart enough to find other ways to learn, grow and sell.

    Does this mean we can start drinking and posting again ?
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    • I've been trying to find a wu for a long time now...
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    • And nothing says they can't read the forum posts - so they'll still get lots of golden nuggets.
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    • Go back to your turkey Joe... we all know you aren't old enough to drink.
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    • Ya, but if your stick figure exposes himself again, I'm reporting you!
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    • Wow!!! I bet you are relieved...

      You made it just over the wire!!!

      Phew!! That was close, eh?

      :p

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    • Such as JV partnering if needing to launch a WSO or simply having a "partner" post warrior classifieds (legal ways around it versus fake accounts)

      The smart ones (I can think of one in particular you know who you are mr giggles) will just find another road that goes to the same place.


      *continues drinking and posting as she was not aware this was against the rules, rather, thought it was encouraged*
  • Whew. I just made it under that wire.
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    • Yeah you really lucked out Gene!

      I mean you just celebrated your 18th birthday last week, right?
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    • LOL I was just about to type the same thing!
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  • Aw Man! That does suck. I hate it when bureaucracy gets
    in the way of kids being able to learn and develop business
    skills.

    John
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    • The good news is now some of my socks are eligible to become a member.

      flufF
      --
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  • That is a bummer. But the young folks should know that this does NOT hinder their success in any way. In other words, young folks, don't turn this into an excuse as to why you can't succeed.

    Plus, remember, all the great pieces of advice here on the main forums are still open for anyone to read. You may not be able to post and be involved, but you can still soak up plenty of gold nuggets by reading.

    Becky

    p.s. Gene, you're lucky that you made it! I don't get to resume my membership for another year.

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  • The rule is symbolic since it will not keep minors from posting here. They will get banned and come right back with the lesson learned to not disclose their age.
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    • Banned
      It's funny, a couple months ago I started a thread about this very topic: why are "kids" allowed on this forum when they're pretty much -- legally -- (and in MOST cases, not all cases) unable to enter into contracts / legal agreements.

      While I felt I made a detailed and compelling case as to why this practice should stop (included quoting the forum's own terms of service agreement at the time which barred those 18 and under from participating), the thread ended up being deleted hours after I posted it.

      I am in no way writing "I told you so", however I'm happy that this forum has revisited this subject again (for whatever reason) and changed course.

      On the whole, it's a wise course.


      ...However, "wink-wink" underage persons will find their way onto the forums and as long as they keep a low profile and do what they do and don't draw attention to themselves, it should be business as usual for most of those folks!
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    • Of course that will happen. But then the legal responsibility for any problems will be more likely to fall on the culpable party, that being the person who lied about their age.

      This isn't about "punishing kids", it's about legal protection. At best, it will ensure people making legal agreements are able to legally make those agreements. At worst, the WF can claim plausible deniability if something bad happens.

      I may not like it, but I understand it.

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Darn. There goes my idea of starting a warrior forum for kids; didn't know it wasn't allowed
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    • Of course it's "allowed", it's just risky. You just have to accept the legal challenges that come along with it.
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  • Below 18 also can become successul IM
  • Haha!


    Some of the people in this post are great! Put a smile on my face.


    Makes a refreshing change from the arguing and bickering I see plastered over many of the forums

    Little off-topic...but meh!
  • Banned
    ah, that's too bad, some of my VAs are only 16 and I enjoy supporting the dreams of young people
  • There are a few little 13 year olds out there that I know of with great minds.
  • Is this just an American thing?

    What about the countries where 16yr olds can get married and drink beer?
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    • If they want to enter into a contract in the USA, they have to be of legal age in the USA.

      Heck, in most places these days, you can buy a house at 18, but you have to wait until you're 21 to legally toast your new home...
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  • Even though this thread started off as something that could have been taken negatively, it has been turned around by many a member I am laughing over here about what some of you have said. hilarious. And I also agree that although it's not "fair", it's still good that the teens can continue to read the forum and keep learning.

    If you're under 18 and you're interested in business, keep at it! I wish I knew what I was doing when I was a kid! wow, I'd have it so much easier now if I started learning back then!
  • It is what it is. I guess things gotta get enforced. Especially matters like this.
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    • Paul, any chance you can add to this rule that "you must act at least 18+ to post here"...?
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  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • It's good to see we are all being looked out for with the best of intentions.
  • Oh, how I wish you were talking about me.
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  • I must say, I completely agree with Mark's post above.
  • On an Internet Marketing Forum you are either buying, selling or promoting products or being influenced to do so. Buying, selling or promoting a product would mean entering into a financial transaction.

    Here is what Paypal states in its TOS:

    "You must be at least 18 years of age to register for an account and use the Service."

    Since almost all transactions here take place through Paypal it is imperative that only those above 18 be allowed to post here.
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    • Banned
      Okay, I just read through your reply above again Paul.

      "We can't do it here." Understood now.

      A great shame.


      Mark Andrews
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  • Is there a way to make sure the member is within the legal age?
    If not then....?
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    • Sign up using a credit card? Would limit it some, but some 16 year olds have credit cards with parental consent. Others would use their parents cards. And it would probably cause a decline in new members.

      Second idea would be to upload a drivers license scan during account creation. Then someone would have to check it. There would be fakes. Etc.

      No clear cut way to cut it out, all you can really do is try, and assume people follow the rules.
  • Interestingly enough, I've heard recently that Facebook is considering opening up their site to kids 12 and under. I wonder how that'll work out for them.

    I also wonder how COPPA compliance is even possible, since you can't collect personal info (including age or birthday) from anyone under 13 without written permission from their parents.. but you also can't possibly know if they're under 13 without collecting that info (and that's assuming they give you their correct birthday).

    I think copyright law is pretty clear that the creator of the work owns the copyright (with certain exceptions, like work made for hire), so I don't think there's any question of whether or not the 16 year old owns the copyright. The question is, did that 16 year old have the right to enter into a legally binding contract without parental consent? In most cases, the answer is no. (I'm no lawyer, so that's not legal advice, just my layman's understanding of copyright and contract law)

    (edited to fix the second quote and to add...)
    I do know, at least, that the 16 year old owned the copyright as far as the U.S. Copyright office is concerned, because I had no problem registering copyrights in my name for several pieces of software I wrote when I was 15 and 16.
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    • FaceBook wants to be the place to document your life in short blurbs and photos. That is why they changed to the new (and annoying) timeline format. It makes sense that they would want people to start documenting their lives at the youngest possible age. From what I have heard, they will be creating an isolation barrier around youngsters. How that will work and how it will keep predators out remains to be seen.
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  • The WarriorForum agreement isn't a business contract. Also being under 18 doesn't exclude you from conducting business. I am 20 now, but when I was 15 I incorporated my first LLC. It took my lawyer going the extra mile, but I was able to conduct business while being under 18.
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    • Several people have raised points about pre-existing contracts. From my observations, in the eyes of the law there would be no contract. Contract law, I believe, requires both parties to be competent to make the contract binding. By definition, minors are not deemed to be legally competent.

      As for the eBay example, in the eyes of the law, the minor doesn't have a business. The parent does, and allows the minor to act within that business. If anything goes south, it's the parent's responsibility, not the minor's.

      Same for minors having credit cards. They don't get the card without an adult taking the responsibility for repayment. The card may have the minor's name on it, but the contract is with the adult.
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  • Banned
    ....Mommy?
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    • Splorf!

      Darn it! There just went my strawberry banana smoothie I just made!

      Sure Joe, if you insist. I would be proud to call such an intelligent, creative and funny 23 year old guy, my son.

      Terra
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  • As a gamer and someone who spends most of his time on the computer, the majority of people would probably think of me as an immature person. I've been a pretty reserved and quiet person though although out my life or at least as far back as I can remember.

    Maturity comes with intelligence I believe. I'm not saying only stupid people have fun, but there's a difference between having fun and just plain being stupid.

    Like I'm sure many others have posted, I've met teenagers who were mature and intelligent and I've met adults who were complete idiots. Example:

    A guy I know from around here is 30 years old, lives with his mom, his nickname is "wheels" and he thinks saying "your mom" after everything is the funniest thing in the world to do.

    I think the only way to truly improve a forum requires some kind of Artificial Intelligence bot that I have no idea how to implement. This bot would require an intelligence test and if you fail, you're IP Banned from the forum.

    There's too many people to police at this point. There's so many people who post things like "thanks for this info!" and "thanks for that!" I don't believe a forum should be confined to an age limit but posts that just take up space like those above, should be the people who can't register or participate in the forum.
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    • I agree.

      I post to a sports forum that made the decision to ban people who earn a reputation for making low quality posts. It was highly controversial there and it would be even more controversial here since so many type out shallow posts just to get sig views.
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  • Banned
    Woohoo! 22 though lol, although I'm all for moving around my birthday toget more cake.
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    • Haha!

      My bad! My son just had his birthday and that changed the number.

      But if you want more cake, I can arrange that. My favorite thing to bake is desserts!

      Terra
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    • I totally understand where this decision is coming from. Can't argue with it either. Owner of this forum would be the one left dealing with legal system if some problem arises.

      Just wanted to reflect about it a little bit.

      One of truly inspiring stories I have read - was book of Cameron Johnson, who started running his online business when he was 12 years old and had some great working ideas before he hit 16. It is a regular printed book.
      It is called "You call the shots"
      Can be found on Amazon. They guy wrote a letter to Donald Trump (when he was about 8 years old) and managed to get a response, got chance to go into the legal battle with the Ford Company over domain name and end up with settlement that he received from the company, as a result of this battle.
      He had some good running business on Ebay and some business in buying-selling domains.
      I recommend this book to people on this forum who need some inspiration.

      And yes, guy like him would be banned from this site now, unfortunately.
      I do not blame you, guys, you are doing what you have to do.

      Just wanted to share.
  • Actually, a minor can enter a contract. They do every day. They can also get out of one easier but the party 18+ isn't so lucky. That's why you should enter them with extreme caution.

    Technically, any minor who purchased access to the war room, should still have access for the agreed upon time. Booting them would be a violation of the said contract.

    You could argue that they needed to 18 to create an account but the second a person know or claiming to be a minor was allowed to remain, it created a new agreement.

    Not legal advice...

    Garrie
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  • Every situation like this is always turned into positives by savvy people.

    It's like when copywriters were forced to put the word 'advertisement' on their newspaper copy... it ended up increasing conversions in many cases.

    I expect to hear success stories from unexpected sources.
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    • An interesting case on an underage achiever who became a millionaire online before she was 18 is Ashley Qualls. LOOK HER UP! She started at 14.

      Her story became interesting when she hired people to work for her and could not pay them without her account executors approval. She had to have thier approval to spend her own money becasue she was under 18.

      Finally at 17 she got the courts to "emancipate" her or make her a legal adult so she do work her own business effectively.

      I would be concerned if I entered an online contract that was generating thousands of dollars and then learned that my partner was under 18.
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  • You both have always treated people with kindness and you both go out of your way to be fair. Even at your own expense. Today may cause a dull thud in your hearts, but keep in mind that we understand and are here for you.

    There are still good points. They can still read and learn and some may even start their own forums. Who knows.. forums similar to this forum where good people do in fact look out for the best interest of other members. Especially those who claimed to be in their teens.

    Also, if that were to happen the 'evolution' aspect would be an interesting study. And lots of potential for the teens to possibly learn both the good and bad of business online and offline.

    Hind-thought, its not like when a child leaves home for the first time and we can say "Son, this is your home and you can always come back..."

    Jeffery 100% :-)
  • Lol I started Internet marketing and join warrior forum when I'm 17 couple of yearssss ago. Please don't ban my account
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    • Sadly, I have to report that I am over the age of 18.

      In fact I'm probably heading towards being booted for being an old fart. Can I go back and lie about my age before that time comes please?

      On enforcing the age limit - I don't see how it's possible. Personally, I think it's more the responsibility of the parents than it is the owners of a forum.

      My grandaughter is desperate to have a Facebook account. (don't you know 'EVERYBODY' has one?) Facebook says you have to be 13. She's 11. So guess what? She doesn't get to have one.

      If someone is dishonest enough to lie about their age just so they can post here, they're dishonest enough that I wouldn't want to be doing business with them anyway.
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  • If I show a fake ID that says I'm under 18, can I be banned, too?
  • Will the Warrior Forum become wiser with the under-18s excluded from the forum? Only time will tell.

    The mods should ban any member who makes childish comments by saying - hey, you seem to be under-18...lol.
  • does this mean no more "yo Bro", "dude...." "S.T.F.U." or is that more like <25 y/o's college Uni kids (god help us)?

    It will stop much of the unprofessionalism I.M.H.O.

    12 years old..that's insane. Should be put playing woth dolls not here any way.
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      At this college at least we still use "dude". Not "STFU" or "bro" though (although my nickname amongst a few friends is Broseph. Does that count?).
    • Dude, how many times do I have to tell you?

      They're 'action figures'...

      Just kidding, bro...:p
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  • I never even knew that. Is the an upper age limit
  • First person that popped to mind when I read this was Caleb Spilchen. How old is he now? (17?)

    I know that given his success this shouldn't destroy his business but if he's underage I'm sure it'll be a big blow.

    Can the accounts be put on hold for those aged 17 and nearing 18?
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    • Banned
      He's still posting.
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    • Don't know him, but if he is underage then you can't play favorites. Other people have been banned...
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  • I love finding the serious threads that become an entertainment fest. Especially when you can tell the thought just "popped" out.

    There is no question I'm of the "Old Fart" generation and almost so old I may qualify for posting gibberish and *(5tr! -- out of step help to the young whipper snappers like Miss Terrak, Paul, and whats his face who wears Trojans on his head for protection from aliens.

    I had to walk through 10 miles of snow just to get to the outhouse when I was a mere lad of 7 and had my first idea of selling the Sears and Robeck catalog (not for reading) to our neighbors for instant use. Even back then I had a weekly recurring income.

    Speaking of the outhouse I'll talk to you guys later, I have to go.



    The Old Geezer
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    • Awww! What a shining example of a true gentleman calling me a whippersnapper and all.

      But I have reached the half century mark. That should count for something shouldn't it, other than being now categorized as a "classic"?

      Terra
  • it's unfortunate...but necessary.

    Kids grow up too fast - they should be having fun...not trying to make money online.

    Lots of time for that in the future.
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    • Banned
      For some kids the thrill and risk of trying to build a business is fun. I wouldn't deprive them of it if that's what they want to do.
  • that's a sad news, i personally know some minors who enjoy this forum, anyway they can still read and learn
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    Enforcing the age limit here: You must be 18+ to be a member

    Okay. This probably sucks more than any post I've made here, but it has to happen: If you are under the age of 18, or claim to be, you can no longer post here. That includes both the paid advertising and the discussion sections. And no, it does not matter if the minimum age requirement in your country is different than in the US.