I've read "The Game" by neil strauss which is a good read even if you aren't interested in pick up.

Its interesting that you bring it up though because I was just listening to Ross Jeffries being interviewed on mixergy while I was at the gym.

Here is a link to the interview

Mindframe Persuasion: Seduction Tactics For Entrepreneurs – with Ross Jeffries | Business Tips

Ross Jeffries is kind of the god father of pickup, as he devised the speed seduction system which is based on the principle of NLP. He now seems to be transitioning (as you learn in the interview) to teaching business people to be persuasive in the same way as pickup artists are.

There are a number of IMers who are also PUA's the most notable example being David De Angelo / Eben Pagan. Whose newsletters I read because it is simply some of the best email copywriting around.

Pickup, essentially is just teaching confidence through repetition - learn some lines, approach 200 girls a month and for sure you will gain so much social experience, you will become more confident with women, and I believe it will spill over into all areas of your life.

I just don't like the way pickup is "branded"... as pickup... it really is just teaching confidence, they just brand it as pickup like it is something special... if you learn confidence through nlp, self improvement techniques, public speaking.. SOCIALISING... then you will get more confidence just the same I believe.

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I agree with both of you, and I definitely see the business and networking aspects of PUA.(Check out: My interview with a pickup artist - Business Insider)

I'm not a fan of NLP and by extension basically block out Ross Jeffries, but am kind of fascinated by the rest of it. That's why I ask.... I think I just have to go through it and stop thinking about it. If it's bad, whatever; there's no way I'l learn nothing from it.

But I do think it is more than just giving you confidence, because it gives you self-awareness and understanding of what is what(even if if all of it isn't totally accurate). I was a confident and social guy before, I just didn't have that understanding.

The reason Pickup works to build confidence is that there is a set and clear cut goal for these guys to aim for. You can actually see a definite number and % increase when you utilize Pickup. On the flipside, most people would not be able to really gauge just how much more self-confidence they actually have after utilizing NLP training.

As a woman, obviously I'm not really into the PUA world, but now that you guys have told me it's really about confidence, I'm going to check it out to see what I can learn.

They say when making products to offer people what they WANT and then slip in a little of what they NEED. PUA education is essentially about helping you to become a man of higher value -- confidence, social skills, decision-making, leadership.

It's personal development and growth.

But alas, this has to be couched in the language of "get any girl's number" because that's the existing drives of the market who buys it.

And they do a good job of teaching those techniques for interactions with the opposite sex that might seem unneccessary, but for any tongue-tied guy with his knees knocking it's very helpful.

Mystery looks like a douche and students can use the PUA / NLP stuff to be sleazy but I don't think that happens most of the time.

They say when making products to offer people what they WANT and then slip in a little of what they NEED. PUA education is essentially about helping you to become a man of higher value -- confidence, social skills, decision-making, leadership.

It's personal development and growth.

But alas, this has to be couched in the language of "get any girl's number" because that's the existing drives of the market who buys it.

And they do a good job of teaching those techniques for interactions with the opposite sex that might seem unneccessary, but for any tongue-tied guy with his knees knocking it's very helpful.

Mystery looks like a douche and students can use the PUA / NLP stuff to be sleazy but I don't think that happens most of the time.

Read the four elements of game, it's the only book on being good with women and yourself you will need, it takes the overexaggeration of being good with women and simplifies it into a very flexible mindset.
Four elements of game, you all will thank me.

I've heard the objection that Pick Up is over branded before, but personally I think their use of branding is one of the most interesting aspects of PU and something that IMers can definitly learn from.

Virtually everything is PU is branded no matter how simple it is, for example it is not approaching women quickly, it is the "Three second rule" your friend isn't your friend he is your "wingman"

This provides higher percieved value for concepts that are often nothing much more than common sense. And of course can be marketed and sold as such.

These branding terms also help to alienate a lot of people from PUA, because when PUAs talk among themselves and use a lot of pua related language, it sounds to outsiders as if all PUAs are objectifying women (e.g. 'targets' in their terms). And they don't want to get associated with this.

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