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What happens if a family member or a close friend you have known for decades...

by discrat
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does something very, very bad ?? Do you blindly support them or do you appropriately admonish them for their dastardly deeds ??

I have been reminded of this lately in the Danny Masterson rape case. If you do not know Masterson was a star in "that 70s show" in the late 90s and early 2000s. In the early 2000s he was convicted of drugging and forced rape of two women. He recently received 30 years to life in prison for this.

Before he was sentenced , actors Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis sent letters to the judge in the case telling them that Masterson was a "role model " and a good father to his daughter and that he deserved leniency in the sentencing.

Well, the letters got leaked to the public and now Kutcher and Kunis are facing large backlash from the public for supporting this convicted rapist.

They apologized on Instagram and said that they were only addressing their friendship with Masterson the last 25 years and did not mean to discount the rape victims in this case. But for the most part the public is not having any of this .

So what would you do if a close friend or family member was in a similar situation??
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    "For the most part" the public doesn't care one way or another....it's only social media blowing up as usual.


    A twenty year old crime and a far left couple anxious to say the 'right' thing.



    So what would you do if a close friend or family member was in a similar situation??
    I would address it privately and not run around asking strangers what they think. IMO there's enough gossip on social media - why bring it here?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I don't think it has to be either/or. I think you can acknowledge the error and acknowledge the good someone has done. The symbol for justice is a scale, after all.

    I think the angry townspeople of social media got out their pitchforks errantly on this one. Social media groupthink is irritating. There's no "gray area" understanding.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    There is a way to royally chew someone out but do it in a kind, supportive way. It's true! If you are creative enough, bring the tone down, sandwich the discussion, and try to be as supportive as possible.

    There are times, though, that people need to learn a lesson. They need to spend some time in jail, or a divorce needs to happen, or they need to lose their money because of whatever they did.

    I think an interesting question is what to say on the stand in the trial of your father, husband, daughter, or close friend. Do you lie? Do you take the 5th? Do you minimally answer the questions without adding unnecessary detail?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post


      I think an interesting question is what to say on the stand in the trial of your father, husband, daughter, or close friend. Do you lie? Do you take the 5th? Do you minimally answer the questions without adding unnecessary detail?

      Mark
      That is an interesting question , Mark. Not sure what I would do. Of course on the stand I would try to tell the truth while also adding some points that would be beneficial to my loved one. But that is a tough thing to do, no doubt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    But for the most part the public is not having any of this .

    So what would you do if a close friend or family member was in a similar situation??
    We think it's the public. But the public has other things on its mind.

    Really, it's a dozen bloggers that feel the need to virtue signal that they have higher morals than others.


    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    does something very, very bad ?? Do you blindly support them or do you appropriately admonish them for their dastardly deeds ??
    A cousin of mine shook his baby to death. He went to prison for many years.

    My Mom and aunts kept talking about how unfair he was being treated in the courts. Finally, I mentioned "I notice that nobody here has said that he didn't do it".

    This is why I'm not invited to family reunions.

    To answer your question....

    My Son and I had this discussion years ago. He asked, if he murdered someone, would I turn him in.

    I told him I would try to convince him to turn himself in. I do know that I wouldn't lie at his trial. You can love someone and still feel that they should be responsible for their actions.

    The way to help them is to help them do the right thing...not shelter them from the consequences of their actions.

    That's my view, anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      We think it's the public. But the public has other things on its mind.

      Really, it's a dozen bloggers that feel the need to virtue signal that they have higher morals than others.




      A cousin of mine shook his baby to death. He went to prison for many years.

      My Mom and aunts kept talking about how unfair he was being treated in the courts. Finally, I mentioned "I notice that nobody here has said that he didn't do it".

      This is why I'm not invited to family reunions.

      To answer your question....

      My Son and I had this discussion years ago. He asked, if he murdered someone, would I turn him in.

      I told him I would try to convince him to turn himself in. I do know that I wouldn't lie at his trial. You can love someone and still feel that they should be responsible for their actions.

      The way to help them is to help them do the right thing...not shelter them from the consequences of their actions.

      That's my view, anyway.
      Suppose your son told you that and said here's my reason. You think, that's a very good reason. And, the crime was committed 1000 miles away, out in the wilderness with no witnesses and buried deep. Basically, as perfect a crime as you could possibly imagine. Would you turn him in?
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Suppose your son told you that and said here's my reason. You think, that's a very good reason. And, the crime was committed 1000 miles away, out in the wilderness with no witnesses and buried deep. Basically, as perfect a crime as you could possibly imagine. Would you turn him in?
        I have no doubt that Claude would either convince him to turn himself in or do it himself

        There is really no alternative or option for anyone who has the slightest bit of Character and Empathy
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Suppose your son told you that and said here's my reason. You think, that's a very good reason. And, the crime was committed 1000 miles away, out in the wilderness with no witnesses and buried deep. Basically, as perfect a crime as you could possibly imagine. Would you turn him in?
        The truth is...as it is with us all. We really don't know how we would act until it happened.

        I am pretty sure how I would react. But he is my son. Sometimes instinct kicks in. So, who knows?

        Not lying in court, after someone is caught, is different from turning them in. At least I'm guessing that it is.


        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I have no doubt that Claude would either convince him to turn himself in or do it himself

        There is really no alternative or option for anyone who has the slightest bit of Character and Empathy
        You give me credit where it wasn't earned. We all sound pretty heroic, until there is blood.

        If it happened, I don't know how I would live with myself, no matter how I chose.

        When we read about school murders, I sometimes wonder about the parents. Are they at fault? But most parents, I think would be shattered by having a child commit such a crime.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          The truth is...as it is with us all. We really don't know how we would act until it happened.

          I am pretty sure how I would react. But he is my son. Sometimes instinct kicks in. So, who knows?
          Claude, I just do not see any " wiggle" room in a matter like this !! But that's just me
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Claude, I just do not see any " wiggle" room in a matter like this !! But that's just me
            It's the USA. There is no wiggle room. Get a defense attorney involved follow the instructions of the defense attorney.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Claude, I just do not see any " wiggle" room in a matter like this !! But that's just me
            These are different scenarios.

            Your son calls you from 1,000 miles away and says he just killed someone. Do you call the police? Do you try to help your son?

            Your son tells you he just shot someone in self defense. What do you do?

            Your son shows up at your home with a dead body in his car. Do you help him get rid of the body? Do you turn him in?

            Your son just killed 10 school children. You hear about it on the news. Your son calls you to help him hide. What do you do?

            These are different situations. How would I react to each? Really? I don't know. But I know my life would be destroyed, as would my son's. A parent's nightmare. And the only way my son would ever have a life at all, would be if he turned himself in.

            A close friend kills someone? Nobody's that close. The police get called by them or me.

            A friend of mine once told me (after several drinks) that he had a fantasy of kidnapping a girl, holding her hostage, raping and eventually killing her.

            I told him "Never tell anyone else that. Ever. Even telling me, if I ever read about a girl disappearing, I'll think it was you, and I'll tell the police. If you ever did it, your life would be over, her life would be over, and my life would be over...because I knew about your idea, and did nothing to stop you".

            I'm not joking. I never heard from him again. The next week, he was gone He quit his job, and moved away. This was maybe 40 years ago.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              These are different scenarios.

              Your son calls you from 1,000 miles away and says he just killed someone. Do you call the police? Do you try to help your son?

              Your son tells you he just shot someone in self defense. What do you do?

              Your son shows up at your home with a dead body in his car. Do you help him get rid of the body? Do you turn him in?

              Your son just killed 10 school children. You hear about it on the news. Your son calls you to help him hide. What do you do?

              These are different situations. How would I react to each? Really? I don't know. But I know my life would be destroyed, as would my son's. A parent's nightmare. And the only way my son would ever have a life at all, would be if he turned himself in.

              A close friend kills someone? Nobody's that close. The police get called by them or me.

              A friend of mine once told me (after several drinks) that he had a fantasy of kidnapping a girl, holding her hostage, raping and eventually killing her.

              I told him "Never tell anyone else that. Ever. Even telling me, if I ever read about a girl disappearing, I'll think it was you, and I'll tell the police. If you ever did it, your life would be over, her life would be over, and my life would be over...because I knew about your idea, and did nothing to stop you".

              I'm not joking. I never heard from him again. The next week, he was gone He quit his job, and moved away. This was maybe 40 years ago.
              Of your examples. The self defense one would be more clearcut, especially if the person was an intruder in his home and has a gun. I would say, do not touch anything and call the police. Hopefully the evidence would be enough to say it was self defense.

              The second, killing ten kids, not your son anymore, more a crazed mass murderer, would contact the police. He's a danger to society.

              The rest, depends on the circumstances, would have to be a very, very good reason for him to have killed someone. I take it, at this point, he has not been implicated in any way, so would you help him? Hmmmm

              If you totally agreed with the reason, perhaps. There is a chance that he would be found out and you would be implicated in assisting. Father and son incarcerated for the rest of your days and your son possibly put on Death Row. Huge risk.

              Two lives would be over unless you make it the perfect crime disposing of he body. Then, your son could likely lead a normal life. To shop him and contact the cops means your beloved son would spend the rest of his life in a small cell and possibly executed. Neither of the options would be desirable.

              It is a judgement call that would be very painfull to make.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                The second, killing ten kids, not your son anymore, more a crazed mass murderer, would contact the police. He's a danger to society.
                My Friend;

                It's statements like that, well meaning as they are, that is solid evidence that you have no children.

                People can stop loving their parents. But if you ever loved your child....no matter what they do, you don't stop loving them. And they never stop being your child.

                Every parent knows what I mean.
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  My Friend;

                  It's statements like that, well meaning as they are, that is solid evidence that you have no children.

                  People can stop loving their parents. But if you ever loved your child....no matter what they do, you don't stop loving them. And they never stop being your child.

                  Every parent knows what I mean.
                  And children who had loving biological parents who where not in anyway monsters don't tend to raise children who become monsters.

                  I'm very specific on the biological part of that statement. Plus Claude you make an honest effort to avoid harming and or taking advantage of people. I doubt there is any way a child of yours that you guided into adulthood would go to the darkside
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                  • Profile picture of the author discrat
                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                    Plus Claude you make an honest effort to avoid harming and or taking advantage of people. I doubt there is any way a child of yours that you guided into adulthood would go to the darkside
                    Claude's a "good" psychopath so you are probably right !!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                    And children who had loving biological parents who where not in anyway monsters don't tend to raise children who become monsters.

                    I'm very specific on the biological part of that statement. Plus Claude you make an honest effort to avoid harming and or taking advantage of people. I doubt there is any way a child of yours that you guided into adulthood would go to the darkside
                    I appreciate the compliment. But....

                    How you raise a child is a major factor in how they turn out. But there are other factors as well. Who are their friends? Who do they want to impress? Brain development has an enormous amount to do with how someone thinks and behaves.

                    And we all know people that were raised by excellent parents, who just turned out bad. And their brothers and sisters are just fine people.

                    Some of us are just born broken. And some handle stress very badly. And some are prone to violence. Many of us are just one really bad day away from doing something really stupid.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      I appreciate the compliment. But....

                      How you raise a child is a major factor in how they turn out. But there are other factors as well. Who are their friends? Who do they want to impress? Brain development has an enormous amount to do with how someone thinks and behaves.

                      And we all know people that were raised by excellent parents, who just turned out bad. And their brothers and sisters are just fine people.

                      Some of us are just born broken. And some handle stress very badly. And some are prone to violence. Many of us are just one really bad day away from doing something really stupid.
                      But those factors outside traumatic brain injury usually appear under the age of 25 and good parents tend to be aware of trouble and do everything they can to get the child back on track. But I will still restrict that to biological parents.

                      Stupid and bad that results in someone's death from being in an altered state that causes a temporary break from normal behavior.


                      Is far different from conditions in the original post where someone went out and purchased drugs used for date rape. Then chose at least two victims then used the power and influence from the fame and fortune they had to delay punishment for 2 decades from committing the act.

                      Two different camps those with patterns of behavior that planing out practicing and committing criminal activities to see what they can get away with.

                      Then those who just mess up and hurt or kill others having no real intentions of that happening before things happen.

                      Then there is a third group the people who are capable of terrible acts but apply it to the general benefit of society.

                      I have not gotten into a fistfight with a non family member sense I was in my early teens and I have one misdemeanor trespassing ticket in my adult life and a few traffic tickets. I'm more likely to fracture my own skull loosing control of the recoil from a fire arm than actually hitting anything I am attempting to aim at. I'd be the one who ends up the murder victim versus the perpetrator. So I don't get myself in those situations
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  My Friend;

                  It's statements like that, well meaning as they are, that is solid evidence that you have no children.

                  People can stop loving their parents. But if you ever loved your child....no matter what they do, you don't stop loving them. And they never stop being your child.

                  Every parent knows what I mean.
                  I read countless stories where children disown their parents or other family due to the horrible way they have been treated by them. However I'm sure you brought up your son in a wise and fair way which would warrant no animosity from him and their would be no reason for your son to turn out to be a bad apple based on your upbringing. But, it must be said, your son is an individual and after 18 is free to make his own choices which could include getting with the wrong crowd, getting into drugs and violence, stealing etc. (Or, being a model citizen, his choice.) Even though, the examples and wisdom you gave to him were perfectly sensible, logical and loving.

                  Now, if my son went out and murdered 10 children in cold blood, out of the blue, my first port of call would be to ascertain his mental state, had he had a psychotic break of some sort? If I was told repeatedly by doctors that he was in no way mentally ill then I would be reluctantly considering the parting of the ways, no matter if my son was from my flesh and blood or not. I am really stanch on this. You don't choose your family offspring, you for a time are stuck with them. They may love or despise you, and you could be either way towards them. It gets to a point with something like that where you would have to detach the family aspect of it and view them as an individual and judge them that way.

                  For example, I am now estranged from my only living (family) relative I have left. Neither of us have any further interest in communicating with each other. We were relatively close when young but no longer. While it turned out that way is of course sad. But, I have a few good friends left and they are now my only real family.

                  So, I have already done this and if my parents had been this way I would have done it with them as well. In the cold light of day, they are ultimately just people who happen to be related. They are people who you may or may not want to be around.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I don't care. I have had friends who killed people outside of war . But they where certifiable. I just know not to anger them enough to draw out the daemon.

    Outside statutory cases where underage willing and consensual female. Crime because of the age. I have had to many female friends who have been assaulted to maintain any kind of friendship with a predator perpetrator.

    But outside the certifiable killers others I have been around who have blood on there hand where dealing with killing pretty bad people themselves. But I would not call any of those friends just people I would not want to feel like I was a cop so I stay away from asking to many questions

    There are people who are just bad people and there are a large number of regular people who at some point in their lives done a very bad thing but it's not how they live their normal life
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I am pretty sure how I would react. But he is my son. Sometimes instinct kicks in. So, who knows?

    I agree with that one - honest answer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I do what I think is right based on my relationship with the offender. I couldn't possibly care less what "the public" might think. Most of them have the attention span of a gnat and will flutter off to the next thing momentarily.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Po Last
    It depends - are they facing the truth or hiding from it?

    If they're making excuses, they won't change. Their character will just get worse.

    But if they own up to how bad it was, they can come back from anything. Facing the truth takes courage. And courage points you in a good direction.

    It ain't about one moment. It's the path you choose - the truth or lies? That shows me who someone really is.
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  • Profile picture of the author collinn
    i had same situation with my prandma, i cant talk with her and i think i wont talk
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