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I just got done watching the first hour long episode of Telemarketers on HBO.
It's a documentary done by one of the telemarketers that used to work for a company that raised money for "The Policeman's Benevolent Association" or related causes.

The reps got $10 an hour (This is is 2007 in the beginning ). The company kept 90 cents out of every dollar they collected.

Here is what I got out of this hour;

The boiler rooms were trash. the reps were drunk or high most of the time, and mostly ex-cons were hired....or illegal aliens.

At first, the reps insinuated they were policemen, and that the contributions (and a sticker you got in return) would prevent you from getting ticketed by the police. None of this is true of course. And the callers all tried to sound like police officers...deeper voice, more in command.

Eventually, the company owners just decided for the reps to say that they were actually the police calling, and that 100% of the money went toward a charity...all of the charities benefiting the police...or firemen. Of course, this wasn't true at all. All the money was kept by the company, and the police weren't involved at all.

They called lists of people who had previously donated so some cause. and every few weeks, they people who sent in money, were called again with a different charity...involving the police or firemen. And every call asked for an increased donation.

What was fascinating to me was that this group of social misfits and losers generated so much money every day. it proved that anyone that had a compelling appeal, could raise money over the phone if....

1) They had the right list. In this case a list of fund raising donors.... many were retired and elderly.

2) They followed a proven script. That was a real key, And the scripts were really well written....even if, in this case, they were breaking the law.

They hired ex-cons (right out of half way houses), because they needed a job for probation, would be more likely to do something sleazy like this for money, and would work under these terrible conditions.

And if the reps didn't take in enough money, they would call their parole officer (or at least threaten to) and report that they didn't show up for work. So these guys worked.

Doing any kind of drug was allowed on the premises, and in the offices...as long as the money was being made. There was prostitution, drug dealing, and more taking place there every day...all on camera.

On a personal note, we used to get a lot of these calls, and if my wife answered the phone...she gave them money. It was really hard for me to convince her that these weren't the police calling.

But once you give them money....you're on the list.

And we used to have a telemarketing office right next to our store (we shared a common entrance). Yup, the same thing. Raising money for various charities...keeping (they said) 80% of the money raised. These businesses don't last long. They keep moving, changing their names...

What kills me is that telemarketing would work just as well for a real...legitimate offer...as long as it was compelling, and the list was made up of previous buyers (or donators or subscribers)

Oh, and they had a Spanish speaking group that called immigrants...When they said they were the police calling....most gave money.

It's on HBO or MAX. There is a second hour next week as well.

It made my stomach churn.
#hbo #telemarketers
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  • Profile picture of the author Monetize
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    It made my stomach churn.


    Thank you for this because it is very informative.

    It is stomach churning because this type of illegal
    activity shouldn't even be happening. Criminals
    pretending to be the police to solicit donations!?

    Your wife needs to be educated on dealing with
    these types of calls. She should tell them to put
    her on their do-not-call list. That is how you get
    them to stop calling. In your case, they might be
    taking advantage of senior citizens and that is
    questionable as well. This is very serious.

    I usually watch Masterpiece Theater on Sunday.
    I recommend this to anyone. Grantchester, Call
    the Midwife, All Creatures Great and Small.

    These shows are wholesome, relaxing, and fun.
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    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by Monetize View Post


      I recommend this to anyone. Grantchester, Call
      the Midwife, All Creatures Great and Small.

      These shows are wholesome, relaxing, and fun.
      Grisly murders solved by an alchoholic priest accompanied by his homosexual curate...Really wholesome...!

      For wholesome murders, Brokenwood Mysteries (Acorn in US, Drama in UK). Great scenery, fun characters. Set in my teen stomping ground... So obviously, I'm totally unbiased...
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    • Originally Posted by Monetize View Post

      I usually watch Masterpiece Theater on Sunday.
      I recommend this to anyone. Grantchester, Call
      the Midwife, All Creatures Great and Small.

      These shows are wholesome, relaxing, and fun.
      Yup. We watch all the British imports.

      We're old, and I think the law requires we watch these shows. My wife could also watch Murder She Wrote....non-stop.



      My wife gave them money because they said they were calling from the police, and believed them. This was years ago, and we no longer get those calls.

      I'm far less trusting than she is, so I listened to every word...and usually you'll see that they are not saying what you think you are hearing.


      Also, I'm a real marketer and salesman. So I hear pitches with a different ear than most.

      Several people here can do the same thing. We're just not hearing what others are hearing.

      Why was my stomach churning?

      Because these goons were taking a perfectly good business, which could have thrived for decades...and shaved the truth enough to make it illegal.

      But what really bothers me the most is human nature. Intelligent...educated people fall for this kind of thing.

      My wife is educated and smart. She just (like most) doesn't think like a con-man.

      My Brother-in-law sent in $100 (I think) to these scumbags. He got a sticker to put on his car, thinking it would stop him from getting speeding tickets.

      He's highly intelligent. He just believes what he hears, from a really good pitch over the phone. Just like nearly everyone else.

      The reason I can tell the piranha from the goldfish...is that I'm a piranha.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Thanks Claude, I need to check that show out.

    Just a few days ago or so the FCC imposed the biggest fine ever on a telemarketing company. Was the whole car warranty thing. Seems they may have been finally shut down especially since the carriers that allow the nonsense calls over their networks are also put on notice.

    I love watching shows and reading books about some of the big scams in history.

    Another big scammer was Vincent James. He made like $100,000,000.00 in less than 2 years ( all while in his 20s) until he was busted and was facing prison. He was the original seller of those pills on late-night TV that promised to help with your sex life in various ways.

    Still tons of scammers out there. They're all over the marketing world.

    Anyone that has ever read the history of the big gold rush knows only a very very few ever made any real money.

    Who made the big money? Those selling the shovels. Those selling big dreams.

    The marketing world is full of those selling shiny shovels. When in reality only a very small few ever make any real money...but there are always those who will sell you the latest shovel.

    I've always wondered how if someone is making a ton of money, how they have the time or desire to sell courses or other nonsense on how to make money. Most never really made any real money other than selling others some nonsense on how to make real money.

    It always makes me wonder why more people can't see that they're simply being sold shovels...and lots and lots of shiny shovels.

    The ones I pay the most attention to are usually the ones that are retired after having a successful career. They have the experience and they made their success without selling shovels.

    Ok, that's my rant for today. Maybe it's all over the place, but it was my thoughts after reading your post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Monetize
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      Grisly murders solved by an alchoholic priest accompanied by his homosexual curate...Really wholesome...!

      Maybe I used the wrong adjective. Grantchester is crazy.
      It's like Mayberry with a murder every week. My favorite
      is Mrs. C. She is a character like no other.

      And I love Leonard too.




      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      My wife gave them money because they said they were calling from the police, and believed them. This was years ago, and we no longer get those calls.

      The reason I can tell the piranha from the goldfish...is that I'm a piranha.

      I am glad they stopped bothering you good people, and
      I will NEVER believe that you are a piranha. More like a
      marshmallow that is easily manipulated. I bet anything
      you gave away free vacuum cleaners to poor people.

      But seriously, I am sure that the honest telemarketing
      industry will survive. Regulators need to get rid of the
      scammers.
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  • Well, I saw the three episodes.

    The last episode showed how companies can now use old voice recordings of top fund raising telemarketers and computer generate a complete conversation with a prospect. No need to even have a live telemarketer, or even an office.

    One of the top telemarketers was being interviewed, and he got a call from a company using his own voice to ask him for money. He even carried on a normal conversation with the avatar. It was bizarre.

    The Fraternal Order Of Police actually like these telemarketers, because they still get a small percentage of what is raised, between 0-10% of the amount given. It still amounts to thousands of dollars a month, and the money goes to the FOP general fund.

    The pitches for the police, firefighters, service people, or Political Action Committees .work the best. And The PAC drives require no documentation of where the money goes.


    On a side note, I know lots of business owners tat pay thousands of dollars a year to have a sticker put on their door, saying they support the police. They think the police are actually getting this money, and that a police officer actually called them. They think it gives them some "protection" from police...or better service when needed.


    But as a marketer, their scripts and niches they sell in are brilliant.

    For some reason, these telemarketers, who make almost no money themselves, don't think to start their own business, and just keep the money themselves, rather than raise it for their company.

    But in the specials, you see that these guys that actually do the calling are about as low as you can get in humanity. It's not a moral judgement, I mean they live in squalor, have life threatening addictions, and some live on the streets.

    They call lists of former donors, and lists of people who have donated to other causes. Most are elderly, or small business owners. Most have little money. All are naïve.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks Claude, my take away was from the old best seller of the 1950's None Dare Call it Treason. The saying goes treason doth not prosper for if it prospers, none dare call it treason.

      As he was waiting for the congressman, or right after, he saw all those patches of police departments and the former prosecutor, well like almost all of them do, said one thing and did another (nothing).

      Too much money involved, and with the elimination of actual people, and AI doing all the work, only going to get worse.

      If anyone has an older relative or loved one, call them and talk to them, and try to get them to not answer the phone if they don't know the caller. I think so, the data collected will be used on these vulnerable folks.

      Hi Mrs. Jones, happy birthday, the big 85 is here congratulations. INTRO, just wanted to alert you of crimes in INSERT NEIGHBORHOOD, and your LOCAL police force are doing a great job. I am calling on behalf of them Mrs. Jones, all of whom wish you a very happy and safe birthday. I hope you have put those stickers on your window, the ones we sent you last time you supported your LOCAL police.

      It is very important that we protect people like you and INSERT NEIGHBOR, and to that end....SALES PITCH/UPSELL AND etc.

      PROFITS BABY PROFITS.

      I came away hating marketers. Those kind anyhow.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Well, I saw the three episodes.

      The last episode showed how companies can now use old voice recordings of top fund raising telemarketers and computer generate a complete conversation with a prospect. No need to even have a live telemarketer, or even an office.

      One of the top telemarketers was being interviewed, and he got a call from a company using his own voice to ask him for money. He even carried on a normal conversation with the avatar. It was bizarre.

      The Fraternal Order Of Police actually like these telemarketers, because they still get a small percentage of what is raised, between 0-10% of the amount given. It still amounts to thousands of dollars a month, and the money goes to the FOP general fund.

      The pitches for the police, firefighters, service people, or Political Action Committees .work the best. And The PAC drives require no documentation of where the money goes.


      On a side note, I know lots of business owners tat pay thousands of dollars a year to have a sticker put on their door, saying they support the police. They think the police are actually getting this money, and that a police officer actually called them. They think it gives them some "protection" from police...or better service when needed.


      But as a marketer, their scripts and niches they sell in are brilliant.

      For some reason, these telemarketers, who make almost no money themselves, don't think to start their own business, and just keep the money themselves, rather than raise it for their company.

      But in the specials, you see that these guys that actually do the calling are about as low as you can get in humanity. It's not a moral judgement, I mean they live in squalor, have life threatening addictions, and some live on the streets.

      They call lists of former donors, and lists of people who have donated to other causes. Most are elderly, or small business owners. Most have little money. All are naïve.
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        If anyone has an older relative or loved one, call them and talk to them, and try to get them to not answer the phone if they don't know the caller. I think so, the data collected will be used on these vulnerable folks.
        We don't give to telemarketing charities for this very reason. We know that the majority of money goes to the fund raiser. I have a Brother-in law that gives money every year to these guys...and to plenty of other charities.

        But I know this...if i told him about this, he would get angry with me, and argue.

        "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken." - Carl Sagan.

        And...part of his self image is made up of his giving to these hucksters. I would be attacking his self image, even the fabric of his social image. It makes him feel good about himself...that's what he's paying for.



        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Hi Mrs. Jones, happy birthday, the big 85 is here congratulations. INTRO, just wanted to alert you of crimes in INSERT NEIGHBORHOOD, and your LOCAL police force are doing a great job. I am calling on behalf of them Mrs. Jones, all of whom wish you a very happy and safe birthday. I hope you have put those stickers on your window, the ones we sent you last time you supported your LOCAL police.

        It is very important that we protect people like you and INSERT NEIGHBOR, and to that end....SALES PITCH/UPSELL AND etc.


        PROFITS BABY PROFITS.

        I came away hating marketers. Those kind anyhow.

        GordonJ
        Actually, that's pretty darn good.

        My friend, Frank Falcone (on this forum), gave me the entire pitch he used to sell Chamber Of Commerce memberships. When I studied the pitch, I thought it was the best one I've ever seen. But the pitch used to sell contributions like on this show, is even better...it uses even deeper social triggers.

        There are certain social behaviors that are almost required to live in our society. And this pitches utilize them.

        This great pitch requires;
        1) A statement that has hard social pressure to agree with.
        2) A short compelling story that makes to more personal.
        3) A fear of non-compliance that is personal and visceral.
        4) A benefit that is huge (in the imagination), and can be implied strongly.
        5) The appeal of being part of a highly desired group, or social position.
        6) Justification for the cost.
        7) A list of people who have bought this way, and this type of appeal... before.

        In fact, this formula could be expanded to be useful in lots of different sales categories....memberships, foundations, and of course politics..in all facets.
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        • Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          This great pitch requires;
          1) A statement that has hard social pressure to agree with.
          2) A short compelling story that makes to more personal.
          3) A fear of non-compliance that is personal and visceral.
          4) A benefit that is huge (in the imagination), and can be implied strongly.
          5) The appeal of being part of a highly desired group, or social position.
          6) Justification for the cost.
          7) A list of people who have bought this way, and this type of appeal... before.
          This a personal diet plan or a trillion dollah mission to Venus?

          Guess we gotta jus' expand on the detail.
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          • Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

            This a personal diet plan or a trillion dollah mission to Venus?

            Guess we gotta jus' expand on the detail.

            Now that you asked....

            Something that took me decades to learn...

            When I see something in selling or marketing that works extremely well (Even if it's something I did myself accidently), I try to figure out the principles I used (or the marketer used) to get that result. And then I expand it out as far as I can.

            For example, I once discovered that if someone bought a high end vacuum cleaner before, in their home, they were about 5 times more likely to buy from me.

            Which meant....

            They were used to buying from in home salespeople...


            Which meant...

            I could just get referrals of people who bought from guys like me in the past...

            Which really meant..

            It didn't matter what they bought before, in their home...insurance, windows, water softeners, encyclopedias, fire alarms, memberships, siding, or even magazines....they were then accustomed to buying that way, and far less resistant to buying again that way.

            Which really really meant..

            Anything that I could learn that was a trigger that lowered the natural barriers to buying...would help me speed the trust building and buying.

            And then...that principle of finding people who were comfortable buying the way you sold, could apply to any kind of selling, to any group of people, in any media, in any location.

            So when I see a sales process that works, I try to analyze why it woks, and what ideas I can transfer to my own business and teach to others.

            Yes, it is true...I love hearing myself talk.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


              Yes, it is true...I love hearing myself talk.
              Well, I've got a real treat for you Claude...

              a clone of you pitching your book.

              I'll message you the download file.

              Best,
              Ewen
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              • Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                Well, I've got a real treat for you Claude...

                a clone of you pitching your book.

                I'll message you the download file.

                Best,
                Ewen
                Can't wait to see it. Thanks, Claude
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                • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Can't wait to see it. Thanks, Claude
                  Done for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author aduttonater
    I saw that the other day. That Pat guy definitely got me motivated to pick up the phone and start dialing again. My bank account has never been happier.
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