Warning: Be Careful Who You Deal With Here!

What happened?

I am building my own list now and was planning to set up an ad swap in near future...

May be if you can discuss what went wrong (without naming names) it would help a lot of people(like myself) before we learn it the hard way too!

I'll be watching
Rahul

Yeah this tends to happen...I have been scammed about 3 times since I started doing swaps about 1 and a half years ago.

Twice, the 'ad swapper' even blamed me for not sending out when he was the one who didn't send out.

Not surprising that when they ask me for a swap again (yep they had the nerve to do that), I don't reply to them

Fabian

Guess its inevitable sometimes Ken. Even with the amount of precaution taken up. A few nasty buggers will still slip through the defenses. =P

For new warriors I tend to ask them for screenshots of their list, but even that can be faked.

What I do is to keep a nice excel spreadsheet of the people I've adswaped with and keep track the of optins they gave me. Have a few blacklisted there which I don't mind sharing with fellow adswapers on a private basis.

Lastly, it was great doing the adswap with you Ken. Your list was really responsive. From what I saw on the clicks, my list loved your offer too. We should do another one soon. =)

Alvin Huang

I have been burnt once by adswap and once by paid mailing which had very poor results.

-Mark

I agree to be sure to do your due diligence. Find out who they've worked with and for me, the biggest thing is to find out how reciprocal people are.

This is a good reminder for the newbies like me too!

You're right Ken, sadly there are plenty of folks out there that will not pull up their end of the bargain.

To you newbies-It get worse the bigger you get!

I have a nice responsive list with over 30K, I've had some great JV swaps, but now everybody and their brother wants me to send out for them, but nobody want to give back what I'm offering.

Back in the "old days" it was a lot harder to fake the scale of your business and the kind of person you really are-nowadays faking seems to be the rule.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, I'm usually a very optimistic happy-go-lucky guy...I guess this thread just struck a cord with me.

Melford

Hey Ken et All

Just a word of thanks for this thread as I am hoping to embark on my first JV and your post sure got me thinking as well as reminded me to do my due diligence so on one hand I thank you for raising this topic on the other hand I hope this will not make it more difficult for new people on the scene

Cheers

Hi Ken,

Your correct and sometimes its not the people who have 6 posts or something.

Always do due diligence when before engaging in a Joint Venture...

Take care
Jeff Casmer

thankfully i can say that i've had a lot more successful, honest ad swaps than bad ones.

nice thing about getting a handful of successful ad swap partners is that you can keep doing swaps with them and avoid new possibly shady partners.

almost all my ad swaps I do now are with people I've already done one or even two previous swaps with.

--Corey

I'm glad I came to this post. I'm in the middle of my first adswap as we speak. Things are going well but I knew they would because it's with someone I've had a working relationship with for quite some time.

After this adswap runs it's course I will be looking for more to do and it never occurred to me that I had to worry about being scammed. I guess scammers are everywhere. After reading this post I now will be as careful as I can with whom I deal with.

Thanks,
Jeff Sargent

Good reminder, thanks

Thanks for the warning, I too am looking at my first adswap and hadn't considered the possibility of being taken for a ride

I agree with calling the person up and talking with them. Also be aware that prior performance and high post count doesn't always mean they will be the same way in the future. I am a member at other forums and have seen people build up post account to abuse it. However it is a good indicator that the person is standup.

Hopefully I won't run into any snakes.

If at all possible I say use Escrow.

Know exactly what you mean Ken, just swapped with someone here who claimed a close to 5k list and I ended up getting just 100 clicks and only 25 optins.

Live and learn....

I'm new here so this kind of thing is good to read as it will (hopefully) help me avoid people like that.

Is there anyone who does a lot of ad swaps to look out for? (I mean, people who are reputable?)

Just for future reference

I agree with you buddy! We should be careful of the dealers we don't know. Could be risky but sometimes lucky. Investigate wisely.......

Can't you just make people sign a contract online?

Thanks with this useful post.

Good for newbie like me..

-Mat Awang

Thanks for the reminder. Most likely I am one of the newest striving IM's on the forum. I'll be taking time learning the support system within the Warrior Forum before I reach out to people.

I am very high on integrity, so anything I can learn to identify those less than integrity is helpful. Thanks.

Richard

Thanks Ken, I appriciate the heads up. I also Would like to Thank Everyone Else for their Generosity to Contribute on The Topic. I have been marketing on the Internet
now for 5 years and Have seem some pretty shady stuff myself. Although Most of My Experiences and Partnerships have been Favorable, there were those few times where I did get Scammed. I am looking forward to adding to the community.

Thanks again,

Have a AWESOME Day on Purpose!

With Purpose!

Darren Utke Aka "The Real Deal" Mentor

I'll be getting on TeamViewer and phone with the people I do ad swaps with, for sure.

I'm planning my first one right now.

Hi Ken,

I appreciate this post immensely, so thanks! I've been lookingfor a partner for a specific project, and decided to use another forum because they were more related to the project them this forum is. Oh I got several people who applied, and I gave the whole lot of them a trial period of 1 month. Needless to say, none of them stepped up to the plate within that trial period.

All they wanted was a way to get into the backend of the site, and get free handouts for basically doing nothing.

Well, they didn't get either of these things from me, and were basically turned loose after the first week.

In spite of people thinking the best of, or in people, there are some that you just cannot trust, and rightly so.


Mary

As a newbie myself, I'd like to say that while the number of posts might be an indicator of someone's length of stay, the quality of posts should also be taken into consideration as a reflection of their willingness to make a contribution.

It's easy to post one-liners which don't really add much to a discussion.

Sometimes it's hard to go by the number of posts in the forum. If you're not sure about someone, ask for references from other folks. I don't post here all the time, but I've done swaps with some great folks here that can vouch for my honesty. My list isn't big- 725, but if you want to swap with me, you can talk to me on skype, I can send you references of people on the forum with whom I've swapped, and I will be completely forthcoming with regard to list size, performance you can expect (subject to ad quality/ targeting), and I provide screenshots if requested.

If you want to avoid getting scammed, just be sure you deal with people like that. If they can show you that they are legit, then cool. If not, beware.

And beware of people who publicly cause static with the people they've worked with. Even if they are in the right, do you want to work with someone who calls out people in public before trying to resolve problems in private?

Thanks Ken....we have the responsibility
to check the background of the ad swappers.

It is a long term relationship afterall.

John

Thanks for the heads up Ken.

Would you happen to have a book or leaflet giving folks like us the top 5 or the top 10 tips for safe and effective JV partnerships?

If not maybe you should consider writing one seeing that it is so close to Christmas when things really get crazy.

Regards,

Alvern

Man. I was just scammed by a person here on the Warrior Forum just yesterday. I sent to my list of 2,000 for them and they never sent at all. It's very very frustrating. The person that I swapped with a has a good reputation on here too. They have thousands of posts, been thanked several times, and even have people vouching for them on other threads about how good their swap was... Yet somehow, when I swapped with this person, I sent for them and they never sent for me and then they completely stopped returning my e-mails and skype messages.

I feel helpless. I wish I could call attention to this person in the Warrior Forum and prevent them from doing this to others but I know that is looked down upon also! So now I just have to let this person, who seems to have built up a good rep., continue to just go around and scam others...

Be careful... Even the ones who look reputable may still screw you...

Matt

There is an incredible amount of people on the Warrior Forum that are straight up scammers. Now having said that, I have met some great really legit folks on here too. What I find that works best is givings out references with whom you have swapped with. It is all about who you know (and who knows you).

Ugh. This is where the policy of not outing people simply doesn't make sense to me. (1) it only leads to *everyone* (from newbies to experienced folks like you) vulnerable to be scammed and (2) it lets the scamsters operate without any barriers. If you're not tracking scammers, then you're not tracking IPs. If you're not tracking IPs then scammers can just come back, day after day and keep on scamming people for ages.

why do people have to do this an ruin opportunities for new members like myself and many others?

I wish people would just be honest and do the right thing!

I totally agree with you. That is why it is important to do your due diligence when checking up on someone. With a little research you can figure out anything.

nice to hear...be more carefull

[QUOTE=KenStrong;1066478]EDIT 14 Sept 2010: Bumping this thread again because I don't seem to learn... Another Warrior who didn't send out after I did, and now isn't answering my emails.

Warrior Rule #1 prohibits me from outing this person publicly, but it's someone who has been posting in threads here within the last few weeks... (and not the same person who originally inspired this thread last year). Just do your due diligence if it's not someone you already know or who has an established reputation on the forum.

Hello Ken

It's great you reminded us of this very real problem - Reading the responses I cant help thinking if you cannot out people why dont you praise/recommend those positive swaps.
Maybe people might also rate them by giving them stars etc...

So Melford,stay positive and maybe someone will start the ball rolling with a 'recommend' list - Actually that could work for anything you need doing on the net-

P.S. It will be interesting to find out what would someone with a 30K list would want in return from someone who has No List

Thank you for bumping that thread again

Charles

Kenstrong, It'll be nice if you mention what went wrong so that everyone is aware...by leaving things open it castes aspersions on EVERYwarrior who has come in during the recent weeks ... not a nice feeling...thanks!

I have an interesting (and, I'm sure, odd) way of looking at "ad swaps" or "reciprocal mailings."

The short answer is, quit doing them if a core foundation of your business is the feeling that you MUST or NEED to do them.

The long answer can be fleshed out in the main message of this post, from last year...

Hi Ken,
Your so right about this I recently purchased a solo ad and the person didn't send to my offer.

Trying to find the post he was selling it in to tell people not to buy from him.

Regards,
Robert

Hey Ken, thanks a lot for posting and bumping this thread. I don't know what sucks more getting scammed like this or not being able to put the person on blast so everyone would know...What's to stop people from doing this it doesn't make a difference how much due diligence you do ...like someone mentioned earlier in this thread people can fake screen shots and even someone with a good reputation on here can burn you...but anyway thanks again Ken for posting this.

Duce

Here is something you can do in order to protect yourself better when you are doing an ad swap.

Go to Shrink a link. Track it. Grow your business. | BudURL and get a membership there (I think it starts out at $8/month) and use that to control the links you send out.

Agree to a specific time to be swapping with that person, like let's say 10 am. Tell him or her that if they do no send out within 5 minutes of that time you will be changing the link.

It is really easy with budurl because you can do something called a 701 redirect and simply change the link to whatever you want, like a clickbank offer.

When I am swapping with a new partner, I let them know right away if they plan on scamming out, they will get nothing from me but a new bad name of which I will tell many others about.

It is very easy to do and it gives you way more control over your list and what it sees.

Best of Luck!
Jesse

I have been lucky this far I suppose .. I am new to being active in the forum ... and have set up a few swaps .. so far I suppose I wouldn't be burned because my list is small. But it is a shame how so many people are getting scammed ... I think I may start my own forum and let it all hang out .. Then there would not be any of this crazy guessing.. I mean if someone did wrong why don't we all get to know ... There are so many people getting ripped off and scammed that it is only right to hold the accused responsible. And if they want to bring there side of the story to the table so be it ... if you have any common sense you can tell who the liars are

At least this is my feeling .... I think I am going to go start a new ad swap forum now!

Thanks for listening to my rant
Andrea

I have to say not only the warrior forum has people that don't exactly do what they say and it is a shame that it is like that believe me I have been burned by people and it is not a good feeling.I do believe though that there are more trustworthy people than not. It is important when doing an adswap or running solo ads or whatever it is that you do that you follow through with your word and if something happens because sometimes things don't work out how you may want them to make it right and keep in contact and not to avoid the person because that can be aggravating in itself. I think this is a great thread!

Just wanted to thank everyone who posted about adswap scammers, and Ken who got it started. I was just scammed for the first time--twice--in the same week. I set up the swaps with both men--or boys, maybe--that I connected with on the Warrior Forum. Doubly disappointing for that reason. I comfirmed and mailed faithfully for them, and they did nothing. Now won't reply to my emails, of course. First time it happened to me in two years, but very discouraging when you trust someone by mailing to your list. For many of us, our list is at least part, if not all, of our income--and people have to be low-down rotten people to trick someone into mailing for them with no intention of a return. They're probably reading our posts and laughing--well, we'll find a way to get the last laugh.

Why, exactly, are we not allowed to have somewhere to post the scammers' names? Maybe in a special thread or special section. They can't sue someone for telling the truth, and it's a shame they get to do their dirt to other unsuspecting people before they're put out of business.

I was especially glad to read Kelvin's post, and Andrea's. I hope you set up the forum or blog, or whatever you do, and get back to us, Andrea. Also Kelvin, why don't you have your link added to your signature so we can join your site from here? I think many people will be happy to have a place to let others know when they're scammed. (Even though I thought you were a bit harsh to Paul, without giving him a chance to explain about his site being moved, first--it sounded as though you were hoping to catch him at something--with your crude expression, lol.)

Paul has a good site to verify clicks, but it's not about outing the scammers. Another way to help protect ourselves, though. Worth looking into.

Can we name names on our own blogs? If not, does anyone know why? I really, really would like to see all of us who are honest show these scammers we won't put up with it.

My best to all of you,
Annie

Hey Ken,
thanks for the info. Always good to keep this in mind when doing business online.

Tres.

Hi, Ken !

I couldn't agree with you more ! &(*&^^%@^ <grrr-r-r-r-r-r>

I have been a very quiet (and largely, I'm sorry to say, 'invisible') member of this forum for several years. I was too busy 'learning' about marketing and not actually 'doing' marketing... until now !

I have been working on 2 new sites for the past few months that I will be launching shortly - nothing spectacular in terms of "grand scale" 'launches' that the 'big names' do, but a significant launch "for 'me'", nevertheless :-)

Between sessions of work, I browse through my email account to see the "latest and greatest" shiny object that promises the stars, but usually ends up just "mooning' me (and others) :-) :-(

Through all the glitter, the one thing that has begun to rile me is the fresh bumper crop of "wannabees" who go whole hog into ad-swaps with each other, cross-promoting each others hyped-up "B.S." offers.

I must ashamedly admit that in my younger, noobier days (when I didn't know any better),... I was an "e-whore", too :-(

NOW, the sight of it sickens me - - to think that I was ever like that - even remotely - makes my skin crawl.

Liars, scammers, spammers, (bad) hackers, and e-whores are the worst and lowest form of vermin and pond scum on the net - as well as those evil, malicious, repugnant givers of Trojans, viruses, worms, malware, scumware and dialers - that make the internet stink like a cess pool.

I'm old enough to remember when 2 or more people could come to terms on something (a business venture) and seal it with a handshake and the giving of one's 'word',... and that "meant" something.

Nowadays, it's contracts, lawyers and loopholes....

I do try to be everyone's "FriendInChrist". The sad fact is, some make it harder for me to be that to them than others. I'll still try, but I make no promises....

I'm in four-square agreement with you, Ken (and all others here who agree with us).

I am just starting out (again - after a 3 year leave of absence) at A Quality Host - Affordable Web hosting, Web design, Web promotion! and http://www.i-m-discounter.com

I am also working on a software project that has proved to be a real labor of love - I think :-)

I welcome all here (on this thread) to check it out when it is finished for your honest feedback. My intent is for it to be: free, viral, monetized (of course), educational, useful, and genuinely helpful for those in the IM arena (whatever their niche might be).

In my dreams, it has great potential... we'll see though how it is when the rubber hits the road.

At this point (as a pastor), the most significant thing I can do for anyone here is... to pray for them or offer counsel. What I can do for them as a marketer remains to be seen.

I don't expect anyone here to give me any "static" about being a "marketing minister" (as a few of my subs did on my first mailing list 3 years ago), but just to dispel any curiosity,... I entered this arena a few years back to not only help my family (as we all do), but to help my small congregation survive as well.

Time will tell on all fronts I suspect :-)

My best to all here... if there's anything I "can" do for any of you, please just say the word.

Rev. Hal Humphries (Hal)

Thank you for bumping this thread. This will serve a warning to new members of warrior. I have seen a lot of ad swaps offers and solo ad mailings in this forum that I am interested of. It's a good thing I read this early on. Thanks!

How about the user feedback system? I can see those Thanks and Thanked values for some warriors under their user names. Does it mean nothing?