[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by James Campbell

Understood it perfectly.

If I start an IM newsletter and pick a WSO of the day everyday and send it out to my list, I am perfectly entitled to do that. It is a WSO, it is what I believe should be picked as the standout offer for the day, and so the WSO of the Day title/award given by me is perfectly legit.

Your argument that Mike Lantz or anyone else can't pick an offer of the day, whether it be a WSO or not is weak at best. It demonstrated that you didn't really understand how it all worked or you just didn't like how it all worked.

You obviously dont understand, of course anyone can say 'I recommend this WSO of the whatever' and they can email it to whoever they please, the point is that the person who owns that WSO cannot then use your award of WSO of whatever in their WSO title as this implies that the warrior forum owners are giving it WSO of the day.

You prove my point that anybody can decide an offer is WSO of whatever but should the seller then be allowed to use 'WSO of whatever' in their thread title or sales copy

They should be allowed to use 'as recommended by xxx' but then again the question would arise 'who's this xxx geezer'

Unfortunately I dont find your narrow mindedness entertaining so I will end it here.

Hows that for passive aggressive.

[Valdor Kiebach]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

There's no way that end result, whatever they want it to be, is going to make everyone happy. Trying would be a fool's errand, and they're not fools.

Paul

They certainly aren't fools.

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Mike,A good guess, if history is any indicator.

General commentary, to no-one in particular...

No decision they make or policy they implement will avoid loud and often condemnatory comments from some group or other. There are too many conflicting interests, and each group thinks theirs should be the priority. The concept of balance is something to which a lot of people in this market seem oblivious.

You can see it in this thread. Sellers claim they're the ones who support the forum, but without buyers they're not going to be here long. Buyers demand protection from everything from false claims (legitimate demand) to their own reckless desire for instant and effortless results (not the sanest request).

The Freelancer folks are learning the balance. They'll "get it" quickly enough. And they'll make decisions they believe will fit the balance needed to make their long term plans work effectively.

There's no way that end result, whatever they want it to be, is going to make everyone happy. Trying would be a fool's errand, and they're not fools.


Paul

Not everyone is going to be happy, ever. Not with such a large group. There is a balance to be had, but jumping to one extreme (as they have) or another extreme (as some sellers in particular want) is not the best way to find that balance. In fact, the damage done by shooting first in an extreme manner and then readjusting could be enough to do damage that is beyond repair to this community. So far, there have been some major missteps, and that is obvious to almost everyone.

Though, some of us may argue as to whether they are fools or not Or at least their actions thus far have pointed towards possibly being foolish.

[James Campbell]

Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach

You obviously dont understand, of course anyone can say 'I recommend this WSO of the whatever' and they can email it to whoever they please, the point is that the person who owns that WSO cannot then use your award of WSO of whatever in their WSO title as this implies that the warrior forum owners are giving it WSO of the day.

You prove my point that anybody can decide an offer is WSO of whatever but should the seller then be allowed to use 'WSO of whatever' in their thread title or sales copy

They should be allowed to use 'as recommended by xxx' but then again the question would arise 'who's this xxx geezer'

Unfortunately I dont find your narrow mindedness entertaining so I will end it here.

Hows that for passive aggressive.

Your point isn't part of the rules and clearly wasn't a huge concern for enough members for FL to consider it. Now, if it is a problem point of enough concern I'm sure they will be adding that to the rules. Feel free to submit it to the admins as a rule suggestion.

I appreciate you believing I'm narrow minded, which is a narrow minded view of its own coming from you. Love how that works.

As for how it was in regards for the passive aggressiveness, I'd give it a 4/10. Kudos.

[Daniel Evans]

Originally Posted by James Campbell

Not everyone is going to be happy, ever. Not with such a large group. There is a balance to be had, but jumping to one extreme (as they have) or another extreme (as some sellers in particular want) is not the best way to find that balance.

That jump only seemed to happen as a result of FL heeding the opinions of those who don't even advertise in the WSO forum and through their natural lack of knowledge of members here they maybe didn't even realise that.

The majority of users who do actually sell don't even frequent the parts of the forum where those discussions were taking place and it wasn't until threads began to be pulled those vendors seemingly began to search for those discussions to chime in with their opinions.

[Anthony La Rocca]

Bingo! At the end of the day without MONEY -- this forum will NOT survive. All these people flaming on this thread have all these bold opinions -- but are YOU spending $100's per week like the rest of us bigger sellers on the forum? Nope! I get it -- we have to find a balance, as without buyers, us Sellers will not make any money. However, with a heavy of rules on the sellers at the moment...the hoops we now need to jump to satisfy the rules make it not worth the time.

However, for the heck of it...I have modified two of my best offers to meet the new rules. I will keep bumping for the next month on a daily basis so I have more SOLID data -- but so far...so oh so very bad. Went from making 3 - 5 sales from every single bump -- to so far ZERO sales since satisfying my copy to fit the needs of the new 'rules'. And thats when people were bumping 5 - 8 threads at a time under one username!

Since June 2014 -- I bumped my thread every single day -- thats close to $5k alone in advertising on that WSO and it returned a nice investment for me.

No one in their right mind would keep dumping money into advertising in the WSO section after a solid month with a very poor ROI (unless its for branding purposes).

Unless there is some mystical and magical tree of money thats going to payback the original purchase price + support the staff, server costs, business expenses / overheads -- there is no way this ship will continue to sail the way it has with the new rules.

And based on the fact the last time I paid for a bump to that WSO was on Friday and it is STILL on the first page...shows a lot about the money being spent right now in that area.

Show me you have spent at least $5k in ad spend to this forum in the past 6 months before you decide to jump on and agree with the forums CURRENT direction. However, for those that have...so far from what I have seen and heard...not going to find anyone who would disagree with putting the rules back to how they were and focus on dealing with the trolls -- instead of treating those who are footing the ad costs as the trolls.

Since speaking our mind from a sellers point of view is getting us no where here -- I will speak with my wallet

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

That jump only seemed to happen as a result of FL heeding the opinions of those who don't even advertise in the WSO forum and through their natural lack of knowledge of members here they maybe didn't even realise that.

The majority of users who do actually sell don't even frequent the parts of the forum where those discussions were taking place and it wasn't until threads began to be pulled those vendors seemingly began to search for those discussions to chime in with their opinions.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

You can see it in this thread. Sellers claim they're the ones who support the forum, but without buyers they're not going to be here long. Buyers demand protection from everything from false claims (legitimate demand) to their own reckless desire for instant and effortless results (not the sanest request).

Paul...Like I told James earlier when you are right you are right and I'll admit it - you got that pegged. Reading the last few responses above this, my present response, some of them have marketing backwards. Every marketplace is controlled by demand which is buyer based not seller based.

Originally Posted by Anthony La Rocca

Bingo! At the end of the day without MONEY -- this forum will NOT survive. All these people flaming on this thread have all these bold opinions -- but are YOU spending $100's per week like the rest of us bigger sellers on the forum? )

This will no doubt upset you (as would anything or any one not backing the status quo)

but you probably would need to do more research than just your own group of upset present sellers. Many.many, many people like myself have not spent money in the WSO section because we didn't want our business associated with all the junk that was in there. We've said so. Snippets of that sentiment have been all over this forum of people even embarrassed to visit there. These are warrior forum MEMBERS not outsiders. What does it say about potential income lost when a large group of members (even War room members)won't visit your marketplace because its too scuzzy?

I'm sure Freelancer expects to lose money in the short term. Corporations rarely make decisions to lose revenue in the short term unless they have the long term in view. That being the case the bad news for you is that they no doubt have already calculated for you voting with your wallet.

It will take time but where there are buyers marketers will always replace those on their way out. Plus to be honest - they probably have their eyes on bigger fries than WSO sellers. Big companies and corporations that consider even $50,000 chump change for ads and cross promotions but who are EXTREMELY sensitive to associating with bad reputation places on the net.

And based on the fact the last time I paid for a bump to that WSO was on Friday and it is STILL on the first page...shows a lot about the money being spent right now in that area.

So great news is already coming in for some people that want to stick around and might have products that convert better under the new rules. The exposure level for the bump fee is already improved.

Some marketers will always see opportunity and adjust and innovate where others just see the negative.

[Mike Anthony]

I got to say to FL (even though it will upset people in this thread I know) Today for the first time in probably years I found myself interested in WSOs. I was looking at some and thinking hmmm I might want to check that out and I was like....What? You are thinking of buying WSOs again? Lol

Yeah and where I buy from I will want to sell from. I know a ton load of people who feel that way. When the new changes sink in you will find more people willing to buy and sell to supplement the present losses. The get rich overnight income claims had a lot of people with good money to spend (and who know real income is based on hard work) hitting the back button as soon as they got there.

[Anthony La Rocca]

You see you have money to spend -- so investing in quality products (which can be found all over the Internet) is not news. And thats great you feel the rules changing will allow this to happen.

HOWEVER, this is ALSO make money forum -- people search all over google to learn how to make money -- end up here.

People can only buy the quality products...with guess what...MONEY

The "good people with money to spend" never has or will be our target. We teach people how to make money online. Yes this also includes people WITH money looking to bank more -- but mainly aimed at those sick of slaving away not making money and finally having a guide / system to do so. And NO that doesn't just mean selling WSO's how to sell WSO's -- there are countless examples of quality courses that teach one how to make money -- with very little or none. However, most of those will now be zapped because that income cannot be verified by WarriorPayments.

You teach those MAJORITY without /very little money who arrive to this forum every day how to make money -- and guess what -- that problem is solved...and now we grow the amount of people who find this forum into MONEY MAKERS and then have the cashflow to invest in the new WSO's that fit the 'new rules'.

Also "your own group of upset present seller" is totally incorrect. I have been selling on this forum since 2009 and if they dont make drastic changes to the rules -- all of those who joined from that point on who are fedup with the unrealstic changes being imposed on this forum WILL speak with our wallets and stop investing into the Ad Revenue.

Its been proven to death that the traffic has taken a heavy hit on this forum over time because those that create 'quality products' are fed up with all the other BS that goes on here.

My prediction on the future of this forum: More and more people will push their boundaries in the sales copy and the results you will get from purchasing-- there will be many other types of claims made with these products and buyers will then find something else to complain about that and then give more reasons for them to push new rules on the sellers. So many rules that Freelancer might as well just make their own products...post them on the forum with comments disabled and be done with it.

You talk a lot of game but your heresay of SELLING in the future is great until you get into the driver seat, Go ahead and post a new WSO that follows the rules and you see how many sales you make

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I got to say to FL (even though it will upset people in this thread I know) Today for the first time in probably years I found myself interested in WSOs. I was looking at some and thinking hmmm I might want to check that out and I was like....What? You are thinking of buying WSOs? Lol

Yeah and where I buy from I will want to sell from. I know a ton load of people who feel that way. When the new changes sink in you will find more people willing to buy and sell to supplement the present losses. The get rich overnight income claims had a lot of people with good money to spend (and who know real income is based on hard work) hitting the back button as soon as they got there.

[David Mcalorum]

Hahah Mike you crack me up. So.... You've just now "considered" buying stuff on the forum
whilst by your own admittance that you never have purchased anything before?

Thats cute.

I've literally spent well over five figures buying WSO's here.
And a LOT of them have added to my bottom line.
I've ALSO spent well over five figures advertising here.

So, I'm not just a "power seller" ... I am also a "power buyer"

And you know why I am a power seller? Its because (as a power buyer)
I understand what this marketplace wants and needs.

If you haven't put any money into this forum's ecosystem as a buyer or seller
then quite frankly I just can't take you seriously.

[Anthony La Rocca]

Exactly David! And I stated I was only addressing SELLERS who have spent more than $5k this year into the forum on Ad's -- he still decided to reply anyways LOL

If I had to add it up in total -- would easily be over SIX figures combined on WSO's I have bought and SOLD on this forum.

This isn't our first rodeo -- but based on the new rules...the content I enjoyed BUYING on the forum will no longer exist and the content I enjoy PRODUCING will no longer exist either.

I know we won't be missed by you Mike -- based on your support all the new rules without being in the drivers seat like we have on both the buying / sellers side -- the feeling is mutual

Originally Posted by David Mcalorum

Hahah Mike you crack me up. So.... You've just now "considered" buying stuff on the forum
whilst by your own admittance that you never have purchased anything before?

Thats cute.

I've literally spent well over five figures buying WSO's here.
And a LOT of them have added to my bottom line.
I've ALSO spent well over five figures advertising here.

So, I'm not just a "power seller" ... I am also a "power buyer"

And you know why I am a power seller? Its because (as a power buyer)
I understand what this marketplace wants and needs.

If you haven't put any money into this forum's ecosystem as a buyer or seller
then quite frankly I just can't take you seriously.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Anthony La Rocca

The "good people with money to spend" never has or will be our target

Thats a narrow view of MMO that sorry no one really has to subscribe to and to be honest I don't think you are thinking through. Coaching programs for example have sold to this market at a thousand dollars and more which I think is "money to spend". I think you missed the point of having money to spend. its not from online marketing but from their offline activities and working their jobs and yes without doing a WSO in years I have made a tidy profit here because there are quite a few of people like that here who won't grace the WSO section (or have and ran away) but they do wish to make money online.

You teach those MAJORITY without /very little money who arrive to this forum every day how to make money -- and guess what -- that problem is solved...and now we grow the amount of people who find this forum into MONEY MAKERS

Sorry Anthony but for all the years that the WSOs have been allowed to run free it solved no such problem for the "majority". The failure rate in IM remains astronomically high. Yes I would hear you on that being the buyers fault as well but that still means it attracts people who end up not achieving so again no big solution solved there. Unfortunately in addition to that a high percentage of people who have become money makers do it by selling the dream of making money online which if you think about it is not a whole lot different than WSOs about doing WSOs (which I don't personally think are automatically bad. I'm not opposed automatically to either ).

Anyway best of luck to you

[Grazina Ajana Szewczyk]

Originally Posted by XXXXXXXX

They haven't responded to my question above about why the sales page links I posted were removed. I think it is important for people to see the difference in the sales page once all the references to "make money" are removed.

Also like I said before .... no matter what they respond now in this thread.... someone is going to shred them...so I doubt they will respond to our comments.

I think at this point they have made the policy...and since we haven't seen any email or comments stating different ....they are not going to change anything.

X

X, if you're talking about your post that starts with

"Ok so here is another example why I have an issue with this whole no-income claims.

I few days ago i got an alert from warrior about a new wso... here is what was in the email."

I got the links in "XXXXXXXX has just replied to the thread New Warrior Special Offer (WSO) Rules on Warrior Forum." email (you know the emails that notify us about new posts).

And they look like working links, the first one to the *Free Money App

Just to let you know.

[Paul Myers]

Anthony,

It seems, based on what they've been approving, that the matter of how they mean to interpret "income promises" has been cleared up. Given that, it doesn't look likely that they'll reverse the decision.

I personally think it's the best policy change in a very long time. And I can tell you from many, many conversations with sellers over the years that it opens the doors for a lot of people who previously wouldn't have put an offer in the WSO section because of not wanting to be associated with the questionable claims.

Whether it's in time or not is another question. Even if not, there are always new people coming through who would feel the same way and who will now be more inclined to advertise here.

You seem to assume that an advertising venue in this industry can't exist without those offers. I find that a very narrow view of something as big as the Internet.

Consider: As far as I know, Allen never made any effort to reach out to advertisers beyond the confines of the forum. If Freelancer were to create a channel that was attractive to those masses of people, and put some of their connections to use in promoting it, they could easily generate more new advertisers in a year than this forum has seen in its lifetime.

They already have a massive client base to contact, without even making any real effort at all. All those freelancers...

And how about the people hiring them? Suppose some of them might like an easy affiliate program with a low (possibly zero) cost of entry?

My earlier hypothetical scenario may or may not be right, but it shows that there are visions of the future which would work and would actively benefit from removing the old style offers. If they include one of those models in their plan, threatening to leave is not going to provide much leverage.

Of course, that could be completely wrong, too. If so, they'll make that clear in time as well. You will know, either way.

And of course people will push the lines. That's in the nature of the beast. But they don't need to create more and more new rules to deal with it. All they need to do is exercise the most useful tool in the arsenal: Moderator's discretion. They simply refuse to publish any ad that looks like it's pushing the boundaries.

They are not required to approve them, after all.

As far as traffic levels, the traffic that left because of all those affiliate promotions was of benefit to the sellers, but not so much to the rest of the forum's structure. And it wasn't necessary for sellers to bump an offer in order to benefit from that traffic, so it wasn't necessarily all that relevant to forum revenue, either.

As long as Freelancer has a clear plan for the sales sections, they can adapt to make it work. Assuming that's the case, the decline in quality of discussions is a much bigger issue in need of addressing.


Paul

[Anthony La Rocca]

I offer a coaching program on here as well -- several actually. High ticket and mid ticket. Did they make sales? Hell ya! Did the sales drastically slow down the moment I couldn't show the income results I made since I didn't use Warrior Payments? Yup! And I dont just want to help people who have 'thousand dollars' to spend. You have no proof to show that people with very little money to spend is a 'narrow' market.

Tell ya what: Challenge #1 -- Since you have money to spend...do what I use to do when the forum sold content I enjoyed...go ahead and purchase the next 10 - 20 NEW WSO's that come out and you tell me if the new rules have added confidence to the marketplace. From what I have seen as of late...very weak content -- borderline crap products.

Challenge #2 -- Since you have so many strong opinions on the sellers -- put a WSO up for sale and you please show me how the people with money (the 'wide' range of people who apparently visit this market) go ahead and purchase your WSO.

At the end of the day, I'd love to see you walk a mile in our shoes (the ones unhappy with the new rules) and really show us that these will improve the forum in both short and long term ways. I won't hold my breath for too long...

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thats a narrow view of MMO that sorry no one really has to subscribe to and to be honest I don't think you are thinking through. Coaching programs for example have sold to this market at a thousand dollars and more which I think is "money to spend". I think you missed the point of having money to spend. its not from online marketing but from their offline activities and working their jobs and yes without doing a WSO in years I have made a tidy profit here because there are quite a few of people like that here who won't grace the WSO section (or have and ran away) but they do wish to make money online.



Sorry Anthony but for all the years that the WSOs have been allowed to run free it solved no such problem for the "majority". The failure rate in IM remains astronomically high. Yes I would hear you on that being the buyers fault as well but that still means it attracts people who end up not achieving so again no big solution solved there. Unfortunately in addition to that a high percentage of people who have become money makers do it by selling the dream of making money online which if you think about it is not a whole lot different than WSOs about doing WSOs (which I don't personally think are automatically bad. I'm not opposed automatically to either ).

Anyway best of luck to you

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Mcalorum

Hahah Mike you crack me up. So.... You've just now "considered" buying stuff on the forum
whilst by your own admittance that you never have purchased anything before?

bzzzz...Sorry pathetically wrong. Check the join date. Many people feel the way that I do about what the WSO Section became. We bought before it got like that. Simple. Your miss is as good as a mile. I have bought WSOs just not recently . Members who disagree with me on all kinds of thing will tell you and have said the same. The rep of the WSO section even to members is well known. Sorry. In addition as others have pointed out the ecosystem you talk about is composed of several things including participation that drives alot of traffic to the forums that sells advertising. Some sellers add very little to that unless a buck is involved.

Finally the whole argument is irrational and not business Savvy. Companies grow and expand their base by taking into consideration people who are not yet their customers in order to win them over so even if business people such as myself with money to spend had never bought or sold anything they still would make up a segment of the market worth listening to. Freelancer should not be interested in new advertisers and only listen to present advertisers because they haven't spent anything here before? LOL...yeah right. great business sense there.

Its a forum though so I myself get some amusement at you and Anthony thinking you get to control who should and should not answer and who should be taken seriously.

With that kind of power why not just switch back the rules yourself? Shucks problem solved.

anyway I get it. I should just give you room to vent and spew. It will solve all your problems with the rules so blow an go.

P.S. admitting to spending five figures considering what has been selling here recently isn't a ringing endorsement for you.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Anthony La Rocca

You have no proof to show that people with very little money to spend is a 'narrow' market.

Just to clarify Anthony I never said that. I said your VIEW of people having money not being a target was narrow. as for the rest - we have not yet seen the effects of the rule change to new offers. People who would not enter before haven't had enough time.

[Anthony La Rocca]

Exactly -- so go ahead and launch a new offer then since you are so in favor of the new rules that have been changed.

In reality -- we all know you are a fence sitter just taking both sides. On one hand, you admitted, you want to see how the effects of the new rules have on offers, while at the same time you have shown STRONG support for the new rules -- especially #17

Go ahead Mike -- launch a WSO following all the new rules and let us all know the effects. I can tell you the initial reports from PERSONAL experience are not good for the MMO niche type of WSO offers. And for a prominently MMO forum -- that is a fair assessment to say.

However, I know you wouldn't launch a MMO WSO -- youll launch one of quality that people with money will reach deep and wide into their wallets for just shaking it in your face to buy everything you have to sell. *rolls eyes*

For someone who hasn't sold anything on this forum for a long time -- you have quite a lot of criticism to show to us sellers of the past, present, and unfortunately NOT future.

Now that the rules make sense to you as moving in the direction of the forum, how about instead of arguing with us over things we will never agree on, go ahead and show your support and throw your hat in the WSO ring. At least I am still paying for bumps to build data to prove my point to show the 'effects' the new rules have on offers.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Just to clarify Anthony I never said that. I said your VIEW of people having money not being a target was narrow. as for the rest - we have not yet seen the effects of the rule change to new offers. People who would not enter before haven't had enough time.

[Mike Anthony]

Edit:

meh never mind distortion and lying is apparently part of your spewing process and I said I would leave you to it except to say not doing a WSo recently is not saying not selling anything here - unless your only knowledge of forum marketing is doing WSOs which apparently it is.

[Anthony La Rocca]

This thread is about the WSO rules. Which you clearly approve of. Whereas, a growing number of sellers disagree with many more of the rules, than you do. I also sell on other areas of the forum including the classified area, and also purchase banner ads from time to time (but not as of late due to high traffic). Again, trying to criticize what I do, are we?

At the end of the day, you are on the fence supporting the WSO rules, but don't actually want to launch one yourself until others make the initial sacrifice and Im sure plenty will be sharing those results in one area or another here on the forum.

I publicly challenged you to buy a set of newly launched WSO's to support the buyers AND to launch at least one new WSO to prove your support of the new rules -- both in which it seems you have no interest in accepting.

It is on topic to the point of anytime one of us long standing loyal sellers to the forum makes our disastisfied views of the forum stated, you have to go troll along and throw your opinion in the mix when you are admittedly NOT an active seller on the forum, and by not accepting that challenge, show no short term intention to being one.

So unless you have some buyer rules you wish to discuss, your stance on the seller rules clearly holds no water at this point.

If you need some help launching a new WSO (since thats all you think I do around here) -- feel free to toss me a PM and I will gladly help you launch one that'd you enjoy to create while following all the rules -- if thatll help you accept the challenge...heck this consultation will be on the house. Then you will see who is eating their past words or not...

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Edit:

meh never mind distortion and lying is apparently part of your spewing process and I said I would leave you to it except to say not doing a WSo recently is not saying not selling anything here - unless your only knowledge of forum marketing is doing WSOs which apparently it is.

[Alaister]

Thank you all for your continued discussion around the new rules, particularly rule 17.

Firstly, I'll just let all sellers know that for advice about your specific situation and if your offer aligns with the rules, the best place to contact is our help desk: https://support.freelancer.com/index...Tickets/Submit

We have placed these WSO rules in place with a priority to improve the quality of the marketplace as a whole. Our aim is to provide a safe environment for buyers to purchase high quality Internet marketing products from reputable sellers. For far too long the WSO section has been abused with sellers offering questionable products providing very little value. They are looking to make a quick buck without investing in the necessary time to build a strong business around a quality product.

We have seen a lot of fly by night sellers who come to the WSO Marketplace in order to make some quick money without providing any support.

I recognize this isn't representative of all the sellers in the marketplace and I know a lot of the sellers who have been active in this discussion do not conduct their businesses in this way, however these rules are in place the improve the marketplace as a whole. We aim to weed out the low quality products and questionable sellers which will actually give you and others who produce great value a greater advantage.

With Rule 17, this is a rule that almost all non-sellers agree is for the good of the community. The WSO Marketplace is just 1 part of the forum. We want it clean and free from offers that mislead or deceive buyers. We will adapt as necessary to suit the community, this is what we have done with Rule 17.

For sellers affected by this rule, we ask you to adjust your offers to align with the rules.

Moving forward, I believe a lot of sellers will benefit from greater explanations around Rule 17 to understand how to adjust their offers.

What does Rule 17 mean for sellers?

This means changing marketing strategies, such as rewriting sales copy based on the benefits of the product excluding promises of income or claiming that income has been made. Instead of relying on income claims or guarantees, you will need to sell the benefits of the product, use legitimate testimonials and explain your offer in greater detail.

Clarifying Rule 17

What is an income claim?

An income claim is a statement by a seller that s/he has made money. This can come in the form of statements, questions, images, videos and so forth.

Examples:
- I made $10.
- An image of bank statement, cheque, etc.
- I made $XX in 1 day. (Literally, XX).

What is an income guarantee?

An income guarantee is a statement that says a customer will make money by purchasing a WSO.

Most common examples:
- Make $10 every 10 minutes.
- By purchasing this WSO you can pay off your mortgage.
- Buy my WSO to make $10-$500 per hour.

Under the new rules, neither income claims nor income guarantees are permitted.

How Warrior Payments fits into this

Neither income claims nor income guarantees are permitted under the new rules.

The only exception to this is that income claims can be made when it can be verified using Warrior Payments. If a seller submits screenshots of his Warrior Payments account with income that is relevant with what is being sold and we can verify this - then this is permitted.

This means that a seller can say “I made $100” if it can be verified in Payments. It does not, however mean the seller can make an income guarantee such as “You will make $100”.

Why are we doing this?

As many members have pointed out, the WSO Marketplace has needed change for some time. We see this publicly in the forum and we see it behind the scenes with issues from both buyers and sellers.

By removing these income claims, our aim is that sellers will sell the products based on the what the offer is and buyers will feel secure in a safe marketplace.

Warrior Forum Trademark: Rule 23

Thanks to Mark & Don for stepping in with these. I will update the rule to be clearer. The issue we have is that products sold in our marketplace should not appear to be endorsed by us unless they actually are.

Claims from external parties demean the efforts of our sellers who use the Warrior Forum WSO platform.

We have no issue if sellers say that they are selling on the Warrior Forum or selling using Warrior Payments. We take issue when members start using terms or our assets to appear as if endorsed by the forum.

WSOs that make it seem as if the offer is endorsed by the forum will not be approved.

We appreciate all the discussion that has gone on in regards to these rules. For any additional questions or clarification feel free to contact us here:
https://support.freelancer.com/index...Tickets/Submit

At this stage we are closing this thread as we feel everyone has had a chance to voice their thoughts. We look forward to working with you to improve the marketplace.

We’re excited about the high quality products & reputable sellers these changes will bring to the marketplace.

Thank you