Dave Ward

Of Course I am biased, PPC Marketing and Adwords Consulting is what I do, but I believe that, if you have a marketing budget to work with, PPC is one of the only methods we have where we can determine the traffic we get, and where it goes.

While I will be the first to admit SEO is a major part of marketing, and everyone should use it, I know from my own experiences that being at the mercy of the Google Algorithm is not a good way to build a long term business.

With PPC You can choose your keywords, laser target your customers and direct those visitors to a page of your choosing. No other medium when mastered correctly can give such effective results.

So let's turn all the PPC To CPA Guru stuff I keep reading on its head, and look it at from an alternative side.. a side that works, and will make you money, not just today, but long term if you implement it.

STOP choosing CPA offers, and START choosing a market.

When I use Adwords either for my own business, or for my clients, the first thing I have to do is understand what the market is and who the customers are for the product.

What does that mean ? Well , let us take 2 similar products from the Neverblue network they emailed me this week

Premium Acai Slim or Acai Force Max for Men These are 2 Acai Products. But the Vertical ( as Neverblue Call it ) is Diet.

My point is ,products come and go, the market doesn't, What is hot this month, may not be hot next month, last year it was Hoodia, today it is Acai Berry, Next Month ?. You see, the market is what counts.

If you really want to make money with CPA, or indeed any service, you need to choose a Market first, learn that market and then dominate that market.

I have made my living online since 1996 and done Pay Per Click marketing since 2002 , back then you only had to load up as many keywords as you could think of , all of them cost about 5 cents each, and away you went. It was pretty easy money back then. Ah " the good old days"

But the market has changed, Google now are king ( Back then it was Overture ) and in these days of Quality Scores, Landing Page Optimisations and Google Slaps, You have to use a system that fits with the way Google want you to work. You can bitch and moan all you like about Google, but they ain't listening to you ! Adapt or Die, it's that simple.

Why Choose A Market And Not A Product

I will give you a real example that I have used myself shortly, but just for a second, let me elaborate on the Acai and Diet topic as it is such a common theme at the moment.

When you use PPC marketing, be it Adwords, or one of the other services, there is a certain rule that applies every time.

You Must Understand The Search Continuum

That means you have to identify with the person who is entering the search keyword, why do they enter that term, where are they in the buying cycle etc. To make money with a product, you have to understand the person who will be your customer, put simply, you find out what they want, and give them it.

Now let's take the product, Acai Force Max for Men - Now think market

It Is a Diet and Weight Loss Product
It is aimed at Men

Also by looking at landing pages for the product, I can see what the product owners are using to help make me sign up.
" get ripped abs "
" lose weight "
" Hollywood's hottest diet "
" boost energy levels "

Did you get some keyword ideas there ?
So your customer is..

1 A MAN ( I think most of us figured that one out )

2 A Man who wants to lose weight.

He may also be a man searching for getting ripped, or getting 6 pack abs.

So now put yourself in the shoes of the Man who sat at his computer screen this morning and decided he needs to lose that gut that is hanging over his pants .... what is he going to type into google ?

best diet for men ?
weight loss for men?
diets for men?
lose belly fat ?
fast weight loss ?
diet pills that work ?


My point ? What we are doing here is choosing the Male Weight Loss Market, not that product.

What the customer wants, is to lose weight. Give him what he wants.

I would build my own landing pages, with my own tracking, and capture that users name and email address. WHY ?

Because I now have a male subscriber to a list that I know is wanting to lose weight.

Yes I can send him to the Acai Burn Product, but I also now have the option to offer him exercise programmes, 6 pack abs products, Other networks CPA offers or any future CPA offer that would fit his profile. When he is on MY LIST I don't have to decide if Clickbank or CPA Network offers are how I should make money, I simply choose a product I think fits the customer, and tell him about it. The customer has lifetime value to me.

So, just to repeat it, I don't choose a product first, I choose a market first. I would make my decision on do I want to sell to the Male Weight Loss market, if the answer is yes, I will set about understanding who my customer is. There will never be a shortage of products you can sell to Men who want to lose weight, but if all you do is send traffic to that one offer, when the offer is gone, so is your income stream, and you have to start again.

Let me shout it out Using PPC to Send Traffic to CPA offers is NOT a viable long term profitable business. The people you see telling you the money is in the list know something !

With PPC costs rising, you need a sound business plan to make money, even if you are a successful affiliate marketer, you need to start to own the customer, that way the power is with you. Google is making it harder and harder for affiliates to do this the easy way, It is time to build it as a business.

I promised a real life example so here it is


PPC to CPA - Payday Loans

Although I was using CPA offers for Payday loans, In my view I was in the debt market.

I got into this market back in 2007 I used different CPA offers from different networks, often at the same time.

I chose the market for these reasons.

1 Repeat business - The customer who takes a payday loan, will in most cases want another one soon.

2 A number of different offers from different networks were available to promote.

3 The Economic climate meant this market is strong.

4 Potential to sell additional services to customers


Who Is My Customer ?

There is a saying in marketing, " give the customer what he wants, then educate him to what he needs "

My customer is someone who has financial problems, is short of money, and believes they require a short term payday loan . They most likely have credit card debts, and serious credit problems.

Long term reality - They need debt advice and debt help. That is what they need, but in their mind, at the time they are searching, they just want a loan,they think a quick cash fix will solve the problem, so you give them what they want - The Payday Loan - and educate them to what they need ( via regular email marketing ) Debt Help. With that process I make money twice.

Selling to this customer

Potential products for this customer

Payday Loans
Logbook Loans
Cash 4 Gold type offers
Debt Management/ Advice Services
Pay As You Go Visa/Mastercard services.
Rebuild Your Credit
Reducing Monthly Bills Services

One of the easiest sales is when you can play on human emotion: In this market example, that is very easy to do.

Getting this type of customer to fill out your form is not a hard sell, they want a loan, You tell them if they fill out the form with name and email your going to present the best payday loan option for them and fast.

If you structure your landing pages in the right way, You conversion rates will be high.

In this market my lowest landing page optin rate for a keyword was 20% the Average was 45%

Because I had captured the customer, and not just sent them directly to one of the CPA offers, I know exactly what my conversion rates on each keyword are, and I have the luxury of testing different payday loan offers, to see which ones work.

I could also send weekly emails to the list including any new CPA cash advance services that came out.

I can also make my own direct lead deals with companies if my volume is high enough ( I have done this in the UK Debt Market )

I still make money off this list from users who signed up in 2007.

Has the cost of keywords gone up in this market ? Yes, but I still have a list. Can You still make money in this market ? Yes, but not if you try sending traffic direct. Why not ? Because with the system I just described I can outbid you on the words that I know work, I will make more off the customer than you will ( you are free to have the keywords that don't ! )

This actually gives you an answer to the " how are people making money in xxxx market when cost of clicks are xxxx "

Ok this may not always be true, I will explain about the Idiots in a moment, but if you keep seeing the same people in the same spots, long term, then you can be sure it is making them money.

It is not my style to band around figures of what I make, It must be my English reserve, I keep it to the facts of the work I do in terms of PPC ROI so let me just say that this market brings me over 100% ROI on PPC investment.

One thing you have to understand about PPC and especially Adwords.

There 2 types of people bidding on keywords

1 Smart Marketers

2 Idiots !

YOU CAN'T COMPETE WITH IDIOTS.

Idiots tend to be either

A ) Large corporation's with more money than sense, who bid high to be at the top of the page with no idea of if the keyword is valuable or not

B) PPC newbies, who pay any price they see for a high volume obvious keyword ( Acai Berry Anyone ? ) until they have no money left. with only 11 first page spots to go at on a competitive term, trust me, there are more Idiots than there are spots available !


Smart Markers know their ROI, they know what they can afford to bid on a keyword to purchase a customer. They know to the cent what each keyword bid is worth, they track and test everything. THEY KNOW THEIR MARKET

My advice, Choose a market where you can sell to a customer more than once, trust me, applying just that one criteria to your marketing plan will make it easier trying to pick a CPA offer to promote.

Marketing lots of different offers in different markets may work well for SEO or Article marketers, but it is not my area of expertise, Adwords pay per click is, and my advice to you is choose one market and then learn to understand who your customer is first.

To summarise If you really want to make money with PPC To CPA start thinking like the smart marketers and stop following the pack,learn to dominate one market first, if you are going to use Pay Per Click to drive traffic, you have to understand the keyword conversation. The secret... if there ever was a secret, to making money on CPA offers with PPC is not the offer, but the keywords the customer uses to search for what he or she wants.

Ok fellow Warriors, that is all from me, I hope this different view of the PPC to CPA marketing is of use to you.

Take care everyone

Dave

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TE2

Dave,

Big round of applause for your post.

The statement quoted above is what most new (and many older) Internet marketers don't understand.

It is step 1!

Regards,

John

Robyn8243

Excellent information...you just gave people the answer to how to deal with future google slaps as well.

Interesting how few of the CPA guides really emphasize the benefits of building a list.

The underlying basis of getting paid for CPA offers is that you are providing the advertisers with a list...I can't think of any CPA markets that don't have the kind of opportunities you refer to.

Thanks for a great post.

Robyn

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Dave Ward

Hi Robyn, John

Thanks for the comments. Nice to know the post is appreciated

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adtown

Excellent post, Dave!

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BruceP

BRAVO MAN!!!!

I have been trying to learn PPC marketing for awhile now, I have a whole hard drive full of ebooks to show for it. I learned more from this one post about how to look at this business than all of those ebooks combined. Great insight on how it is done!!!
I hope you do not mind but I copied it and saved to the same hard drive. It is worth more than anything else in there.

Bruce

Dave Ward

Bruce your making me blush ! Of course I don't mind.

regards

Dave

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TE2

Dave,

You gave away more in your post than what people charge for in ebooks.

The content you shared is golden!

What you revealed is the also a critical success factor using CPV traffic. I pick the market, then the offers.

Regards,

John

JayInOrlando

Hi Dave, thanks this advice does ring a bell with me. But there is one thing that I am hung up. I am promoting an offer, it's also an acai offer. I can see using keywords such as "acai" would be not worth it, as the bid price is $8.00 or $9.00 just for a click a sure way to go broke fast. But, how do I find the good keywords, without testing them and spending that $8.00 or $9.00 a click to rule out the un productive ones.

Jay

Sig Under Construction

Dave Ward

Hi Jay,

Your quoted bid prices may be due to a number of factors, but lets look at what the other options are

Again, if we look at the market, Acai is in the diet/ weight loss market, if a searcher is using that term in his/ her search, they are most likely further down the search continuum, or buying cycle.

buying cycle is

• Awareness
• Interest
• Consideration
• Purchase
• Retention
• Advocacy

If someone has put say "acai berry weight loss" in as a search, they are likely to be a more likely sale, than acai berry. The acai berry searcher is most likely wanting more information about it first before making a buying decision.

Due to the amount of marketers on these terms though, this is why I say Choose A Market. Research other diet and weight loss related keywords,, and you will find cheaper keywords than $8 and $9. The example I gave in the original post about Acai Burn for Men would apply though, my advice would be to build a list in the diet/ weight loss market. If the clicks in that market seem too expensive in terms of what you have to work with, then find a market where clicks cost less.

Hope this helps

Dave

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dropship

Excellent, excellent info here!

I can tell anyone that is questioning this method that I'm doing the exact same thing in just one niche where I constantly earn revenue from various CPA offers in the same niche over and over again from capturing user info the first time.

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Dave Ward

Thanks John, It is interesting what you say about CPV, I think this shows, that though the ways to reach a customer advance, the basic principles, of choosing your market and knowing your customer, remain the same.

Regards

Dave

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georgej

Great insight dave...

Buhry

Tight post! Even though I'm a newbie to IM this makes total sense and I've been trying to do this. Kinda like how you should always do market research first, before going ahead and creating a product for a consumer base that might not exist.

Roncham

Sound advice Dave

Just don't choose too broad of a market and don't focus on too narrow of a niche.

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itcoll

very nice.Using both the opt-in and the cpa is really cool method.Thanks

powyoung

Give that man a cigar!! Very well said and insightful. It's such common sense, but something very few people do.

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powyoung

Hey Dave I'd be interested in hearing your ideas and opinions on this. Every one says the money is in the list and to build a relationship with that list.

However if you have 10 or 15 niche websites you cannot be an expert in each of those niches. While you can get PLR or ghost written articles to stick in an auto responder you won't really be able to brand yourself except in 2 or maybe 3 of those niches, without looking like some sort of scam artist.

How do you get around this, or do you only brand yourself in 1 or 2 of those niches and not really bother with the others?

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Dave Ward

Hi

I would agree that building a relationship with the list is the best way to do it. When we buy stuff, we buy from people, not companies. If a sales person in a store is rude to us, we walk out, if they are helpful and friendly, there is more chance we make a purchase.

If you can build a relationship with your list, you have more chance they will buy something from you.

I don't think you have to be an expert in a market, so long as you present information from people who are.

If you mean 10- 15 niches as 10 - 15 markets, then I would not do it that way.

If you meant 10-15 niche sites in one market - for example Diet/ Weight Loss ( Diet and Fitness tend to go together ) could be ..

Low Carb Diets
Paleo Diet
Diet Pill Reviews
Diet Meal Plans
Fitness Plans
Muscle building
etc

That method is possible. You don't have to be an expert on muscle building for skinny guys for example, but you could get Vince Delmonte to do an article for you, but you can still build a relationship with the list.

If someone was searching google for a solution to stop their Dog attacking the Fedex guy, you don't have to put yourself out there as the dog expert, just provide them what they want in a pleasant helpful way.

In your chosen market, the more niche sites the better, this is actually what google want you to do. ( In PPC terms, Google want your page and site to be on topic in relation to the search )

Hope that answers you question

Dave

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KevScarb

Dave,

congratulations on not only an awesome post, but with the answers you are giving in the follow ups, I think an awesome thread too.

Your post stopped me lurking and finally made me join Warrior Forum because I wanted to ask you a question too.

Infact reading this thread, I agree with BruceP, I learnt more from your information , than I have from the ebooks I have bought. Thank you !

My question to you is, should the budget you have to work with, be a factor in what markets you choose to work in ? If I have say $500 a month to invest in pay per click, should this also play a part in deciding the market ?

Thanks again for sharing so much.

Kev

ChrisBa

gonna have to agree with OP on this one..

One saying which has always held true to me.. 99% of the time it's the affiliate and not the offer (when an offer doesn't convert)

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nim3

wwo great advice, will try and follow your tips

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sappire

Dave, you just shattered my IM dream. I mean the idiot one!

Great post, benefited a lot from this post!

I think I should learn some marketing basics first. Any recommendation for books?

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Tracey_Meagher

I came to this part of the forum because I'm about to get into CPA. This is the first post I read. I really don't think I need to know any more. Excellent post!

Thank you

dmail333

SUPER POST Dave... you are soooo on point, you're so cool to give away such potent info. I wish you all the best.

Dave Ward

Scientific Advertising - by Claude C HOPKINS . Written in 1926 I think,yes everything Hopkins wrote, applies today. You should be able to download it for free online. Still a must read for anyone involved in I.M.

Commonsense Direct & Digital Marketing- by Drayton Bird

Dave

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SimonHarrison

Solid Dave. Good to see some more UK folks about.

Sig Smig - I'm selling nowt.

Infinite Shades of Grey

When the Guru speaks, you better listen. Thank you for the excellent insights and information.

Dave Ward

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the kind words.

To answer your question, yes your budget will play a part in deciding your market. If you only have a small amount to work with, then you need to look at markets where bids are lower, perhaps in the 10 cent to 50 cents range. This would rule out many of the Finance niches, but there are markets where you can buy at below 50 cents per click and make money. Just don't let anyone fool you that you can spend $1000 per month, and make $50,000 off that investment.

There are still products out there you can promote where the clicks will cost you less than 10 cents.

One of the best markets out there that people don't touch is the B2B market, you can buy clicks at low prices, and sell reports that cost a $1000 +, you just have to be a creative. I buy clicks in one Industry at an avg of 8 euro cents, and sell a product that costs $2,500 ( it is not my product ) , it converts at about 1- 500 avg from the follow up mailings, I get over $800 per sale why would I bother with acai berry offers ?

We are internet marketers, and there are many, many different markets out there.

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Vocalines

Yes but this means that you are creating a list and doing the follow up... do you mean you are selling one product every 500 people in your list? Or 1 sale out of 500 clicks?

Alex Mirabeau
http://www.MakeMoneyOnlineForNewbies.com

alpha249

I think this goes for PPV too.........

Dave Ward

Vocaline,

Yes, as I explained in the first post, I always create a list in the market. To explain the 1 in 500, I meant when I track the process - from click to landing page, to optin, to email list, to the first sale, one out of 500 who clicked through will buy. Repeat business from the list itself tends to be higher.

It could be like this ( Just an example )

500 clicks

15% optin = 75 people onto list

1 out of those 75 buys the product.

Hope that makes it clearer

Dave

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KevScarb

Dave,

So when you say to choose a market is PPC to Landing Page and then building a list what you suggest to anyone using Pay Per Click to sell a product ?

Is that the method you teach you on your coaching ?

Shakeel786

AWESOME POST DAVE

Excellent information...Thanks alot

Chris Faraday

Love this thread Dave, as I join in to share our consideration.

Follow up, Follow through, Follow Forward with genuine care & concern -
With an authentic voice of authority (master your market & really help people save time, money & live better)

This is the future present of a sustainable business versus transactional quick kill which is getting harder and stops when you stop hustling the market.

Super-Conscious Affiliate

pmcheck

I couldn't agree more, thanks alot.

Dave Ward

Yes, it is, In my opinion if you are spending to get a visitor to your site, you should develop a system to capture as many as you can.

I would not say I teach a "method" as such.
What I teach in My One On One Coaching depends on the client, and what they need, but I would always advise them to focus on building a list. One On One coaching differs from a course, With One On One you focus on that clients marketplace, and the day to day problems they encounter, every client is different, so a module course does not work. So I don't say week 2 is building a squeeze page week. If somebody needs to know the theory and basics of Adwords, then there are already good books out there, they don't need me for that. My coaching in Adwords is like a Coach in sport, you work with your subject to improve their overall performance, but you focus on the biggest problem areas first. You may have a good tennis player, but he knows his back hand is weak. A tennis coach would obviously work on that. Adwords I may have a client who is getting clicks, but can't convert, it all just depends.

Hope that answers your question.

Dave

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firefly11

Dave, awesome post and responses.

Do have a favorite way of choosing a market? For instance, using a kw tool to find higher volume, lower competition kws, then looking at the larger market? Or just pick a vertical and test?

Dave Ward

I have a certain number of boxes I would like a market to tick, before I enter it.

1st No matter what market I am going to enter, I will build a list, so first thing I look at is how easy would it be to do that.

2nd If I am building a list, what products exist in the market that I could sell to the them ? I would prefer it if there were a number of different complimentary products I could offer.

As an example, think about Internet Markeing.

This is one reason the I.M market is profitable, I am an expert in PPC, but not in SEO, Copywriting, Article Writing or Web Design, but these are all complimentary services that have an interest to Internet Marketers.

3rd Is there potential in the market to make repeat sales ?


I will check the CPA networks to see what products are in the Vertical, I will also look at Clickbank to see what products are available and I will also check Amazon.com depending on the niche. Certainly if it was diet related I would use Amazon to check what is selling.

Then I will start with keyword research.

If I was looking to enter a new market, It would depend on the market how broad I would be. Again as an example, I would not choose weight loss, or fast weight loss from a PPC point of view, but I may choose Warrior Diet or Raw Food Diet as a starting point.

My keyword work is then to determine if there is enough volume on the words that best fit the product or service I am looking to sell. Based on that information I will either move forward to test the market, or find a new one.

One example of the right keyword as it would apply to me would be Adwords Consultant, or Adwords Coach, even Pay Per Click Management, but not simply pay per click which is a far higher volume term, but not as qualified.

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firefly11

perfect...thx for explaining that. the idea of not going too broad or general makes a lot of sense.

KevScarb

Hi Dave,

Yes it does. Thank you. I'm loving this tread, so much valuable information here for me.

ebuyer123

Hi, Dave

Thanks for the great post, man.

May I know that how do you go around with the many CPA offers that are NOT permitted with the use of email marketing?

Is to link your webpage/landing page from an email still be considered as direct email marketing?

(e.g. Email ----> link to your webpage or landing page ----> link to Merchant's CPA page )

Thanks.

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l23bc

dave have to applud you too for such a great post you have made some good sense on ppc an CPA,

sahanull

well said. For the long term list is a MUST

VoodooMethods

Awesome post. Going in my archives and linking every question I get on the topic to this thread

flashads

Excellent post Dave thanks a lot

l23bc

forgot to say also thank you for the read dave

Dave Ward

I think the email issue is more to stop email spam, no company wants you just emailing their offers to any email address that is not qualified, but if you send your email list to your own page first, I am not aware of anyone having a problem with that method.

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ebuyer123

Hi Dave, many thanks for the clarification and useful information

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GMBenson

Dave
Thanks for a great report. It seems quite the challenge to predict the market trends.

But there is nothing like the old standbys of health/beauty and money problems.

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