Do Angela's and Paul's links work or not, and if so, how fast?

[Tom Goodwin]

Sounds like a pre-sell on your new launch of your miracle product.

We are all waiting...

Originally Posted by Titans

Wrong.

Profile links are worthless and if a method takes you 6 months to see results, it is also worthless, this isn't 2004 anymore.

It's not in my best interest to direct newbies to the right path, but frankly I am tired of seeing the same myths being repeated over and over, so this is another myth I'll bust for free on this forum.



The profile backlink myth

The profile backlinks myth is similar to the myth working class share with each other and teach their kids: "study hard, be good, work hard 9/5 a day and one day you'll become successful."

It makes a lot of sense to most people, this is the way they want it to work, but it is not how the world really works, in the real world, these people get screwed over, and the most successful people who everyone secretly wants to be, did it by doing the exact right thing at the exact right time (factor a), knowing the right people (factor b), or inherited the success from someone else (factor c).

(Of course, when they write their biography, they'll whitewash everything and leave out all the juicy dirty little secrets, inside knowledge and connections that lead to those single tiny moments that really changed the course of their lives.)



Work smarter > Work harder

You can work hard, flip burgers 10 hours a day for 10 years, be nice to everybody, donate to the poor and help old ladies cross the streets. You can optimize your effort so you can flip an extra burger per hour, but you'll still end up getting no where.

And this is what profile building + SEO really is.

The only players you're ever going to beat with these weak profile links are other burger flippers that is lazier than you are.

Other than that these links are worthless, and have negative impact when every newbie+dog is using the same site for the links. (site admin had enough and start deleting profiles, site flagged by google for linking to bad networks, etc)

And in situations where profile links work (see below), you can easily replicate the result by getting 1 long lasting strong link, and that link is going to cost less than all these so called "profile link packages".

Every time you look at the people who posts: "profile links work!!!!11!!", you see the following pattern:

1. They can't quantify the result. I mean wtf is "it works very very well"? How does that measure to "very well" exactly?
2. They don't list the conditions, as in under what condition will these profile links work? If you think all links are created equal and any bunch of links bundled as "package" is going to boost your SERP under any competition, think again.
3. They did a 100 things to try boost the ranking, and a month later they had no idea what worked and what didn't. That's why they keep chanting "work hard", they simply have no idea what worked and how much they worked. (working harder, not smarter)
4. They don't know how to utilize the same $50/$100 to boost their rankings more effectively.



Golden facts:

1. Profile links are basically weak back links (there are exception cases, of course), the reason it's attractive to newbies is not because the links are good but because of the quantity that can be easily produced.
2. The only time you can knock your competition down with these weak links is when your competition is equally as weak as your site.
3. When I order 100 links and you tell me it is going to take a week because "slow link building appears more natural", that tells me you are doing it by hand and don't have enough time to deliver orders.



"Slow link building appears more natural" is bull**** because:

1. Real popular content often gets more than 1000 real back links within 24 hours. (see movies/tv shows download links hosted on rapidshare.com etc), they don't get deindexed.
2. 100 back links a day don't mean jack to Google.
3. I've spammed over 10k links many times to my sites and my competitors and no sites ever got deindexed because of it.



It is a science, not a religion

Assume nothing, test everything, then test everything again.

For those who really wants to see the true effect of these so called "packages", I recommend you to do your own a/b test:

1. Build 2 extremely similar sites, host them on the same ip. (ie, cheaphellticket.com/cheapheaventicket.com)
2. Get them indexed on Google at the same time (by pinging them at the same time)
3. Apply one of these "package" to one site and not another.

Do a set of a/b test on highly competitive keywords, then do another set on med competitive keywords, then do another set on made-up obsecure zero competition keywords.

Here is what you'll see from the tests:

1. Profile building don't do jack on highly competitive keywords.
2. Profile building don't do jack on med competitive keywords.
3. Profile building helps low competition keywords.
4. BUT, the low competition "b" site with zero backlinks often climbed serps simply by doing nothing.


I've had many sites (1000+) that keep climbing up the rankings with zero backlinks, I know this because these are the sites that I've decided to ditch after 10 days of launching due to various reasons. And a lot of the time they climbed up a few spots after another week, a few more spot after another week and so on, simply by being left alone. Now if people built profile links before this effect occurs, they are going to assume it's because of the backlinks, when a lot of the time the site was going to climb up anyway. That's why you have to a/b test everything to see true results.

I am not going to spill all the beans here, but if you're going to spend $50/$100 on these "packages", you're much better off with other methods. For example $100 can get you a decent PR3/4 site (factor c) and you can do whatever you want with it, it's going to work better than the "profile package", and it'll be under your complete control.



Conclusion:

Profile links are worthless, not because they have zero effect, but because with other methods, much better results can be produced with the same resource it takes to generate these links.

[GeorgR.]

I don't think they are "worthless", however their "power" is probably very overrated. Many reasons for that. But i think they have their place simply for diversifying your links.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Sounds like a pre-sell on your new launch of your miracle product.

We are all waiting...

Wrong. The only thing I was "selling" was the idea of doing your own a/b test, instead of repeating bs after bs that simply isn't true.

You'll never see me sell, advertise or even link to any product/package/service from this site. People only sell when their mechanism isn't making big enough money. Anyone making more than $5000 a day won't sell their tools or tech to the general public, it just doesn't make any business sense to do so.

[woodymcgrath]

It does work but it takes time, patience and effort like most marketing techniques. You should incorporate it as an overall plan and not solely relying on it to get results fast.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

I don't think they are "worthless", however their "power" is probably very overrated. Many reasons for that. But i think they have their place simply for diversifying your links.

diversify to do... what? The only thing that matter is rankings>traffic>revenue, and if building profile link is going to cost time and money but doesn't deliver results, then it's worthless in my book. I am sure people with an emotional baggage of feeling "complete" won't agree, but who needs 1000s of crap profile links when 1 PR6 back link will knock down all the weak competition for you.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Titans

diversify to do... what? The only thing that matter is rankings>traffic>revenue, and if building profile link is going to cost time and money but doesn't deliver results, then it's worthless in my book. I am sure people with an emotional baggage of feeling "complete" won't agree, but who needs 1000s of crap profile links when 1 PR6 back link will knock down all the weak competition for you.

To each their own, but I have >50% of the backlinks to everyone one of my 300+ domains in the form of profiles and ranking is never is an issue. My sites universally rank well.

Are high page PR links great? Of course they are. I've bought about 100 domains in the last few months building up my own network of high PR sites. But, getting decent high PR links is not easy for entry-mid level IMers. Now, on the other hand, anyone can put up large numbers of profile links relatively cheaply. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg and yes, you can rank well, even for competitive words.

Tom

[adam westrop]

Originally Posted by Titans

Wrong.

Profile links are worthless and if a method takes you 6 months to see results, it is also worthless, this isn't 2004 anymore.

It's not in my best interest to direct newbies to the right path, but frankly I am tired of seeing the same myths being repeated over and over, so this is another myth I'll bust for free on this forum.



The profile backlink myth

The profile backlinks myth is similar to the myth working class share with each other and teach their kids: "study hard, be good, work hard 9/5 a day and one day you'll become successful."

It makes a lot of sense to most people, this is the way they want it to work, but it is not how the world really works, in the real world, these people get screwed over, and the most successful people who everyone secretly wants to be, did it by doing the exact right thing at the exact right time (factor a), knowing the right people (factor b), or inherited the success from someone else (factor c).

(Of course, when they write their biography, they'll whitewash everything and leave out all the juicy dirty little secrets, inside knowledge and connections that lead to those single tiny moments that really changed the course of their lives.)



Work smarter > Work harder

You can work hard, flip burgers 10 hours a day for 10 years, be nice to everybody, donate to the poor and help old ladies cross the streets. You can optimize your effort so you can flip an extra burger per hour, but you'll still end up getting no where.

And this is what profile building + SEO really is.

The only players you're ever going to beat with these weak profile links are other burger flippers that is lazier than you are.

Other than that these links are worthless, and have negative impact when every newbie+dog is using the same site for the links. (site admin had enough and start deleting profiles, site flagged by google for linking to bad networks, etc)

And in situations where profile links work (see below), you can easily replicate the result by getting 1 long lasting strong link, and that link is going to cost less than all these so called "profile link packages".

Every time you look at the people who posts: "profile links work!!!!11!!", you see the following pattern:

1. They can't quantify the result. I mean wtf is "it works very very well"? How does that measure to "very well" exactly?
2. They don't list the conditions, as in under what condition will these profile links work? If you think all links are created equal and any bunch of links bundled as "package" is going to boost your SERP under any competition, think again.
3. They did a 100 things to try boost the ranking, and a month later they had no idea what worked and what didn't. That's why they keep chanting "work hard", they simply have no idea what worked and how much they worked. (working harder, not smarter)
4. They don't know how to utilize the same $50/$100 to boost their rankings more effectively.



Golden facts:

1. Profile links are basically weak back links (there are exception cases, of course), the reason it's attractive to newbies is not because the links are good but because of the quantity that can be easily produced.
2. The only time you can knock your competition down with these weak links is when your competition is equally as weak as your site.
3. When I order 100 links and you tell me it is going to take a week because "slow link building appears more natural", that tells me you are doing it by hand and don't have enough time to deliver orders.



"Slow link building appears more natural" is bull**** because:

1. Real popular content often gets more than 1000 real back links within 24 hours. (see movies/tv shows download links hosted on rapidshare.com etc), they don't get deindexed.
2. 100 back links a day don't mean jack to Google.
3. I've spammed over 10k links many times to my sites and my competitors and no sites ever got deindexed because of it.



It is a science, not a religion

Assume nothing, test everything, then test everything again.

For those who really wants to see the true effect of these so called "packages", I recommend you to do your own a/b test:

1. Build 2 extremely similar sites, host them on the same ip. (ie, cheaphellticket.com/cheapheaventicket.com)
2. Get them indexed on Google at the same time (by pinging them at the same time)
3. Apply one of these "package" to one site and not another.

Do a set of a/b test on highly competitive keywords, then do another set on med competitive keywords, then do another set on made-up obsecure zero competition keywords.

Here is what you'll see from the tests:

1. Profile building don't do jack on highly competitive keywords.
2. Profile building don't do jack on med competitive keywords.
3. Profile building helps low competition keywords.
4. BUT, the low competition "b" site with zero backlinks often climbed serps simply by doing nothing.


I've had many sites (1000+) that keep climbing up the rankings with zero backlinks, I know this because these are the sites that I've decided to ditch after 10 days of launching due to various reasons. And a lot of the time they climbed up a few spots after another week, a few more spot after another week and so on, simply by being left alone. Now if people built profile links before this effect occurs, they are going to assume it's because of the backlinks, when a lot of the time the site was going to climb up anyway. That's why you have to a/b test everything to see true results.

I am not going to spill all the beans here, but if you're going to spend $50/$100 on these "packages", you're much better off with other methods. For example $100 can get you a decent PR3/4 site (factor c) and you can do whatever you want with it, it's going to work better than the "profile package", and it'll be under your complete control.



Conclusion:

Profile links are worthless, not because they have zero effect, but because with other methods, much better results can be produced with the same resource it takes to generate these links.

Interesting inconclusive statements.

I personally have done my own experiment regards to profile links vs high pr blog commenting, and just commenting on PR6 + blogs and on PR4 + homepages with no spam on there.... I allocated myself 4 hours time for each task of profile backlinking and blog commenting. Now for the blog commenting, I found like 75 pages to comment on, on around 7 sites. However for profile backlinking, I managed to do over 150+ profile backlinks, and the results were that the profile backlinking method ranked higher.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

To each their own, but I have >50% of the backlinks to everyone one of my 300+ domains in the form of profiles and ranking is never is an issue. My sites universally rank well.

If it works so well why don't you use 100% profile backlinks? Why stay at ">50%"? Chances are 80% of that ">50%" profile links didn't do anything and it was the 20% that helped, and that means 80% of that resource was wasted. The worse part is you'll never know which one belongs to the 20% and which one belongs to the 80%.

I was wondering why you keep chanting the profile backlink songs until I saw your sig that is linked to a profile package that costs $37 PER MONTH.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Are high page PR links great? Of course they are. I've bought about 100 domains in the last few months building up my own network of high PR sites.

So you're moving onto a mechanism with higher efficiency, next time just reply me with "I agree" and less time will be wasted for both of us.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

But, getting decent high PR links is not easy for entry-mid level IMers. Now, on the other hand, anyone can put up large numbers of profile links relatively cheaply. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg and yes, you can rank well, even for competitive words.

Tom

Let me correct that for you:
1. Anyone can put up large nubers of profile links that cost a lot of time, most of which don't do jack, on sites that links to bad network, takes more time and effort to get them indexed and then get deleted within a month by the admin.
2. No, it's not cheap if you want results for more than 1 sites, for an entry-mid level IMers (newbies) that wants to have 10 sites to "rank well", it's going to cost him $37 x 10 = $370 PER MONTH (according to the link in your sig), with $370 a month you can do a lot more than using profile links.
3. The many posts on this forum posted by people who paid for profile backlinks and got poor results, don't agree with you.

It seems to me you don't value resource as much as I do and all you're doing is telling me it's "OK" to be inefficient, inaccurate, spend more than you should and not in complete control.

That's not how I do business.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by adam westrop

Interesting inconclusive statements.

I personally have done my own experiment regards to profile links vs high pr blog commenting, and just commenting on PR6 + blogs and on PR4 + homepages with no spam on there.... I allocated myself 4 hours time for each task of profile backlinking and blog commenting. Now for the blog commenting, I found like 75 pages to comment on, on around 7 sites. However for profile backlinking, I managed to do over 150+ profile backlinks, and the results were that the profile backlinking method ranked higher.

So you wasted even more time on blog commenting, good on you.

[adam westrop]

Originally Posted by Titans

So you wasted even more time on blog commenting, good on you.

It was comparing two methods which are easily accessible to everyone. I could of put some blog network testing in there, however some of the networks like Myarticlenetwork etc probably arent that affordable to newbies compared to what they can offer. For instance a lot of people rave about Uniquearticlewizard, however for the about of time spent on it, you could of knocked a lot of profile links and be top for a lot of profitable phrases.

I like your 'expert attitude' the thing is... When it comes to links, there isn't too much variation out there.. Whatever it is that you do, probably 99% of forum members know about it, but have chose not to do it.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by adam westrop

It was comparing two methods which are easily accessible to everyone. I could of put some blog network testing in there, however some of the networks like Myarticlenetwork etc probably arent that affordable to newbies compared to what they can offer. For instance a lot of people rave about Uniquearticlewizard, however for the about of time spent on it, you could of knocked a lot of profile links and be top for a lot of profitable phrases.

What you really wanted to say is you're offended by my post because it wasn't presented in a polite manna (it wasn't designed to be) and you believe you already know what's best out there.

When I say profile backlinks are worthless it means I've already gone through the hype and grind and did enough a/b test to know profile backlink is inferior. Obviously this is going to offend the people who's financially or emotionally attached to them. But it still doesn't change the facts and reasons I listed, profile backlinks isn't effective enough and simply don't scale.

Come back when you are up to your 500th site, then tell me how much time and money it took you to make them "rank well" with profile back links, how many of them got deleted over a 3/6/9/12 months period. Multiply that % with the time and money it took, add the risk and opportunity cost involved, and tell me with a straight face these kind of losses belong to a good business model.

Originally Posted by adam westrop

I like your 'expert attitude' the thing is... When it comes to links, there isn't too much variation out there.. Whatever it is that you do, probably 99% of forum members know about it, but have chose not to do it.

You believe you already know enough, but I believe there's always a better way and that's why I always find it. What you interpreted as "attitude" is simply my frustration towards the repeated myth being posted over and over on here.

Those posts are what killed digitalpoint, a once famous SEO forum full of pros and insights and now became a pro-less noob playground repeating ghost stories like "you need unique/quality content to rank well", "duplicate content gives penalty", "adding backlinks too quick gets you banned" and all the other nonsenses that simply don't pass the common sense test.

Somebody needs to put a stop to it or this place will suffer the same fate as dp.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Titans

If it works so well why don't you use 100% profile backlinks? Why stay at ">50%"? Chances are 80% of that ">50%" profile links didn't do anything and it was the 20% that helped, and that means 80% of that resource was wasted. The worse part is you'll never know which one belongs to the 20% and which one belongs to the 80%.

...because link diversity is a good thing. No one should get only 1 type of backlink. That's just stupid.

Originally Posted by Titans

I was wondering why you keep chanting the profile backlink songs until I saw your sig that is linked to a profile package that costs $37 PER MONTH.

*sigh* I have been using profile backlinks and discussing them on forums way before I ever got in the backlink "game". As for the package in my sig, you brag about making $5k per day (I have a $97 bridge to sell anyone who believes that), but you think $37 is a lot?

Originally Posted by Titans

So you're moving onto a mechanism with higher efficiency, next time just reply me with "I agree" and less time will be wasted for both of us.

Clearly you mis-read my post. high page PR links are not easy for novice-mid level IMers to get.

Originally Posted by Titans

2. No, it's not cheap if you want results for more than 1 sites, for an entry-mid level IMers (newbies) that wants to have 10 sites to "rank well", it's going to cost him $37 x 10 = $370 PER MONTH (according to the link in your sig), with $370 a month you can do a lot more than using profile links.

This must be the "new math" that people have been talking about for a while. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about or about how most profile packets work or you wouldn't have written that.

Originally Posted by Titans

3. The many posts on this forum posted by people who paid for profile backlinks and got poor results, don't agree with you.

Perhaps you missed the hordes of posts about people talking about the great rankings they got too?

Tom

[seoed]

to be honest I also didnt see the great effects of profile links so far. I once had a site where I built 30 of those links, strangely the site climbed up every day for this keyword (yes, I did only this kind of linking) and after it reached top30 it dropped back to nowhere!
I think doing an a/b test is what gives us the empirical evidence, everything else will just be a claim or an illusion. however, to really support this test you should also do the same test with just doing another kind of backlink building. it could be that the same bad results will show up because backlink building should always be mixed.

[inter123]

How does a new/mid level Internet Marketer go about getting one of these without their own private network?

Originally Posted by Titans

....who needs 1000s of crap profile links when 1 PR6 back link will knock down all the weak competition for you.

[supermail]

Originally Posted by ThomasTe

Hi,

I've tried their packages, but not with impressive results, for some terms with no great competition.
Also, I have a hard time finding the pages/profiles where my link should be on, in google.

I have also seen some posts about google not liking 'profile spam' and such.

What are your experiences. Does it work for you or not? Have you tried to rely solely on their packages (I know you should diversify, but am interested in this)?
How fast do you see results?

I signed up in the middle of last month to angelas list. I did half one day for one keyword and half for another keyword...

The next day i woke up I was number 1 for the first and number 2 for the second.... Seriously

Then I bought Pauls and did it for another keyword which had 10 times more competition (2.8million) - i went from nothing to page 8. Looking forward to this months installment! whoo hooo!

In January I got a page which had 228million competition to page 2... Here's how I did that - bit old now tho 975 .EDU's

[culvers]

Although im just a stupid noob, i have to agree with some of what titans is saying from my own limited experience.

3 months ago I put up a few sites in weak competition niches. I gave some of them a few backlinks, not many, but more than most of the competition had. Others i left with 0 backlinks. 3 months later, the ones with 0 backlinks have been moving up the rankings, and some are on page 1. The ones with a few backlinks have also moved up and some are on page 1.

Whats going on? I dont know, but what effect the backlinks i built had is questionable.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

...because link diversity is a good thing. No one should get only 1 type of backlink. That's just stupid.

Very often all you need is 3 strong links to rank in top 3 for years. Wtf cares about link diversity when you can rank well without it. Oh wait, I forgot, your sig is selling link packages.

You can chant "link diversity/more the better/etc" all day long but at the end of the day the time/money you wasted on all those uncertainties can be spent on building new assets that generate more revenue. It's not like profile link building doesn't cost time and/or money and it's not like there are no better alternatives.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

*sigh* I have been using profile backlinks and discussing them on forums way before I ever got in the backlink "game". As for the package in my sig, you brag about making $5k per day (I have a $97 bridge to sell anyone who believes that), but you think $37 is a lot?

What sort of BS is this? I listed clear reasons why profile links are inferior, I've listed reasons why sometimes people think they are effective when in fact they aren't. I've provided the instructions for people to a/b test it out themselves. I've hinted 1 better alternative (a mechanism which you stated you've recently started working on, which makes me at least 5 years ahead of you in this game). It has nothing to do with what I can afford and what you believe, my core focus have always been on efficiency, as in cost and return, just because I can afford something doesn't mean I should buy and use it when the ROI is low (now THAT is stupid).

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Clearly you mis-read my post. high page PR links are not easy for novice-mid level IMers to get.

Getting high PR links is easy if such person has already decided to pay for results. The reason it doesn't appear easy is because high PR links works so well that people who uses them don't talk about it often.

It's probably not so easy now on this forum since everyone is chanting how great profile links are every 5 threads and selling link packages in their sig. Then another newbie comes along and tell people to work hard and wait for 6 months to see results.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

This must be the "new math" that people have been talking about for a while. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about or about how most profile packets work or you wouldn't have written that.

We both know you're just the middle man creating profiles on sites owned by someone else and spamming them for profit, let's not pretend there is some sort of complex mechanism that require a high level of understanding.

Clearly you have no real answers that's why you skipped point 1 before quoting 2 and 3, in which I stated:
1. Anyone can put up large nubers of profile links that cost a lot of time, most of which don't do jack, on sites that links to bad network, takes more time and effort to get them indexed and then get deleted within a month by the admin.

And since you've decided to be a smart arse I'll now start talking about how ridiculous that link package in your sig is, and let the world decides if I know what I am talking about:

This is what I saw after clicking on that profile link package ad in your sig:

Monthly RECURRING Subscription
400 Checked High PR Backlinks Sites
Advanced Tactical Training
Backlinks Blackbelt Monthly
$37

One thing immediatly comes to mind:
Your package is subscription based and costs $37 a month (as in $74 for 2 months, $111 for 3 months), so tell me genius, if these links work well and last long then wtf should I be paying you every month? And if these links are not suppose to last long then what is the point of paying you for them?

Scrolling down, it gets even better:

1. Please note that we do NOT authorize our backlinks sites to be used in any way for Linkbuilding work on behalf of MULTIPLE clients – this would DESTROY the integrity of the program for ALL members. Any member found to be doing so will be IMMEDIATELY and PERMANENTLY expelled from the program.

More things comes to mind:
1. He's just the middle man but somehow he acts like he has the authority and control on what others can do on sites not owned by him, we all know that isn't true and chances are a lot of people already know about these sites, and some of them are also selling them to "x users ONLY for $x per month".

2. If someone use 10 minutes to make a crap blog, use a new paypal account, pay $37 to buy your package under a fake identity, ask noob questions to avoid suspicions, receive your list, find out where you spam the links, then resell that package to 100 people for $10, he'll make $963. What is the point of permanently "expelling" him then? And what is stopping him and everyone else from doing the same under another identity again?

For digital security reasons, this product is NOT available as an immediate download. We/our team will email your Monthly Backlinks Report to you within the next 12 hours (usually much faster) with your buyer details stamped on your individual copy.

Oh comeon, what is the point of adding security on a pdf that only the buyer is going to read, and anyone who've decided to resell your list is going to find a way to copy the text anyway, let's not pretend pdf actually has any real security built in that can't be easilly bypassed.



I can go on and on but I have no beef with Terry Kyle so I'll just stop here, but you get the idea.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Perhaps you missed the hordes of posts about people talking about the great rankings they got too?

You mean the hordes of people who also did 100s of other things within the same period (some as long as 6 months), who had no idea what worked and what didn't. I've already covered this, but just like many of the solid points I listed, you've decided to pretend you didn't see them.


Come back when you have real answers to real problems and not just defensive insults.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by supermail

I signed up in the middle of last month to angelas list. I did half one day for one keyword and half for another keyword...

The next day i woke up I was number 1 for the first and number 2 for the second.... Seriously

Then I bought Pauls and did it for another keyword which had 10 times more competition (2.8million) - i went from nothing to page 8. Looking forward to this months installment! whoo hooo!

In January I got a page which had 228million competition to page 2... Here's how I did that - bit old now tho 975 .EDU's

Hi, I see you're another link seller with ads in the sig chanting how great they are. Convincing, really.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by inter123

How does a new/mid level Internet Marketer go about getting one of these without their own private network?

I wasn't going to post this but since Mr Tom Goodwin has decided to be cocky with his inferior method, I will just post some of the juicy details here:

Buy a PR6 link from link brokers or grab a high PR expired domain with strong backlinks and build your own ad-less blog on it, you can spam as much as you want to as many sites as you want on that blog. No one else can delete your link or dilute your PR and you are in complete control at all times. For the price of 1 domain you can send link juice to multiple sites of your choice, and when you're done with the domain you can sell it for even higher price due to domain age increase. Do the maths.

Of course when you start doing it on a massive scale (spamming x sites per domain over x domains) you are going to run across the link farm issue that requires multiple adsense account , a bunch of ips, careful crosslinking management and basic footprints management to avoid being flagged.

But that's a subject for another day.

[tommy6336]

A while back I tried Angela's packets for a few months and I didn't see much. But then again I was also in a super competative niche and it would probably take a lot longer than a couple months to rank high.

[Groovystar]

Angela's backlinks have been way overused by now, I would think.

They talk about those all the time on DP too, same thing they say over there: mixed results.

....It's only $5 for the whole bunch of them though right? I guess you get what you pay for, but not really going to bust anyone's wallet.

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by Titans

You believe you already know enough, but I believe there's always a better way and that's why I always find it. What you interpreted as "attitude" is simply my frustration towards the repeated myth being posted over and over on here.

Those posts are what killed digitalpoint, a once famous SEO forum full of pros and insights and now became a pro-less noob playground repeating ghost stories like "you need unique/quality content to rank well", "duplicate content gives penalty", "adding backlinks too quick gets you banned" and all the other nonsenses that simply don't pass the common sense test.

Somebody needs to put a stop to it or this place will suffer the same fate as dp.

Why should somebody put a stop to all those nonsense? It hurts the 'economy'


Hardi

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by purple_touch

It works! But only if the profile is indexed by google.

Yes... yes, it works if it is indexed. And if it's an active link, which means the content within the profile is dynamically updated with extra things.

No...no, this doesn't work for long. Because G can't afford to keep all this data in their computers no matter how much tetrabytes they've.



Hardi

[GeorgR.]

I am hesitant with Angela/Pauls still and don't want to use them on my "good" sites. The last days i did TEDIOUS blog commenting on high PR dofollow blogs, and one of my sites shot up in Google today, position #2. I am furthermore also using articleranks (and soon SeoLinkVine).

Something i did must have boosted the site, and it was NOT profile links.

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

I am furthermore also using articleranks (and soon SeoLinkVine).

Yeah I know I know... I'd love to use this. But this technique contradicts with the data I got from experiments. And I can safely conclude this -- The accumulation of back link power IS NOT LINEAR. Mass number game doesn't necessarily works.

For example:

A site with just 5 PR-9 one-way back links could easily outrank a site with 100 PR-5 one-way back links.



Hardi

[tommy6336]

Originally Posted by ttomp13

I'm absolutely LOVING the fact that people think these links don't work.
Less competition for me.

So I agree, they don't work...

lol.

I've never used Paul's links but I've used Angela's.

I only used Angela's links for 1 month because I got to lazy and just outsourced the effort.

But I stopped everything because I had started a job and I was working 40+ hours a week.

I did see a bit of a rise in my rankings but I didn't stick with it long enough to reach the first page of google

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by tommy6336

lol.

I've never used Paul's links but I've used Angela's.

I only used Angela's links for 1 month because I got to lazy and just outsourced the effort.

But I stopped everything because I had started a job and I was working 40+ hours a week.

I did see a bit of a rise in my rankings but I didn't stick with it long enough to reach the first page of google

Your ranking will drop and drop until it ends in nowhere land

That's the problem of profile link. You see it indexed, then it disappears after a month or two.

I'm not saying that profile links don't work. It's just that one of the weaknesses is the short lifetime of the index.

That's why before you get to the top spots in the search listing, you must have a long-term plan B to make sure it stays on top for many years.

One way to do it is to create many useful blogs in many high PR web2.0 (or something) sites. Then, point the profile links to these blogs. You will get extremely powerful back links to your money sites. The ranking will stay longer.

However, a group will say this -- "That's why keep creating more profile links".

I'm not saying that this doesn't work. But one thing has to be considered --

How long can you keep it up?

More and more forum owners are beginning to aware of the loophole in profile page. Naturally, the cost and risk of doing this will increase. This, in my opinion, is not the right business model. Just by looking at the history of bulletproof mailing will tell you the possible outcome.

If someone is still clueless in this matter, perhaps Paul could re-educate him or her

So, if my argument doesn't make sense and cents at all, I rest my case. After all, I'm not like those SEO experts. I just own them.


Hardi

P.S.

Let's do a challenge ok?

Get a profile link indexed in G. Find out how long it stick in the cache.

[anjaneyulu]

Angelas and pauls links indexing site very fast,it is one of the best in seo these days.

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by anjaneyulu

Angelas and pauls links indexing site very fast,it is one of the best in seo these days.

The real truth is out there in other discussions, pal.

But would you please stop parroting this because the mod doesn't want it to be a part of the forum. It's rule#7.


Hardi

[adesbarats]

George - I agree with you. But I still think A and P's packets have value but they do need to be put in perspective. I only use those links that make sense. My web site is about organic clothing so finding links that relate to fashion, womens topics, beauty, environmental issues, etc are golden. I build a profile in these and trash the rest. And I don't just place my links in there for two reasons: a) Google will smell a rat and b) the mods might delete it. I invest the xtra time and add all the data, build a complete profile and add lots of contextual value which I can do readily since the site is relevant to my web site.

I am early into the A+P packets so even following this procedure I am not sure how well it will work - we'll see.

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

My pesonal guess is that 90% of people raving about A+P backlinks HAVE NO CLUE and simply echo what they hear from others, "how great angela and pauls links are".

the truth is, its links ON TOTALLY UNRELATED sites, do i want link to my health site from a sports site or from a ozzy osborne site?

YOU DECIDE.

In fact, i once had a site penalized for 3 months and the only thing i did which PROBABLY caused the penalty was A/P links.

You know, i know a bunch of indian guys which are on messenger RIGHT NOW. I could tell them RIGHT NOW to build a zillion Angela links to some of my sites. But i dont.

I think those links are over rated, may even harm your rankings. Proof me its not the case.

Another proof for the fact that some of the so called "link builders" have no clue is statements like "PR5 link" etc. if in fact only the MAIN PAGE has that PR while the actual profile page has PR 0...i see this all the time.

[4morereferrals]

Perhaps out of all your 1000's of sites - that easily rank with just a few HIGH PR links ... you could show us one that ranks for a competitive term, that isnt a money maker?

There are millions of competitive keywords to rank for that arent money making keywords - and of course all it would take is a few links from your numerous self owned PR6 blog sites.

I'll help. Tell me the keyword, and what content you want on it - I'll buy the domain name you request and get the content on it and. You supply the high pr links to it. You can - obviously- pull them at anytime.

Lemme know ...

Originally Posted by Titans

I wasn't going to post this but since Mr Tom Goodwin has decided to be cocky with his inferior method, I will just post some of the juicy details here:

Buy a PR6 link from link brokers or grab a high PR expired domain with strong backlinks and build your own ad-less blog on it, you can spam as much as you want to as many sites as you want on that blog. No one else can delete your link or dilute your PR and you are in complete control at all times. For the price of 1 domain you can send link juice to multiple sites of your choice, and when you're done with the domain you can sell it for even higher price due to domain age increase. Do the maths.

Of course when you start doing it on a massive scale (spamming x sites per domain over x domains) you are going to run across the link farm issue that requires multiple adsense account , a bunch of ips, careful crosslinking management and basic footprints management to avoid being flagged.

But that's a subject for another day.

[Titans]

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Perhaps out of all your 1000's of sites - that easily rank with just a few HIGH PR links ... you could show us one that ranks for a competitive term, that isnt a money maker?

There are millions of competitive keywords to rank for that arent money making keywords - and of course all it would take is a few links from your numerous self owned PR6 blog sites.

I'll help. Tell me the keyword, and what content you want on it - I'll buy the domain name you request and get the content on it and. You supply the high pr links to it. You can - obviously- pull them at anytime.

Lemme know ...

WIIFM?

I spent years covering my tracks from competitors (I had my fair share of fun with dirty gxxxle employees), so why would I expose my network here?

I won't share mine but I can direct you to another pro, how much you can learn from this guy depends on your talent.

famouswatchbrands.com,
created in oct 2008, 1,000,000+ exact searches per month.

.net and .org is still available, grab it while it lasts.

[dsmpublishing]

Hi guys

i have stopped using the angelas packets but i do use pauls and use them as part of my seo strategy. Though when i started social bookmarking them i got a much better response.

kind regards


sam
X

[Titans]

Originally Posted by Hardi Wijaya

The real truth is out there in other discussions, pal.

But would you please stop parroting this because the mod doesn't want it to be a part of the forum. It's rule#7.


Hardi

He's probably just some guy from india they outsourced the workload to.

Right after I made the bust on these links, this "anjaneyulu" guy with 0 posts created a thread called "[WTB] April Angela's and Paul's Links", then in 25 hours he started posting how great they are.

So this guy magically transformed from not knowing where to buy these links to "omg they are the greatest!!!11!!" in just one day. (see references below)

References:

04-30-2010, 05:16 AM

"I am looking to buy Angela and pauls April link package. If anyone can do it,Pm me. "

[WTB] April Angela's and Paul's Links

05-01-2010, 06:18 AM

"Angelas and pauls links indexing site very fast,it is one of the best in seo these days. "

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ml#post2048114

[mr2020]

There are no shortcuts...

But there are expressways.

Putting links in forum profiles and taglines is a great idea. I own a forum, the link is below, and in every post I have here in this forum, and I encourage people to join, join in a conversation or two, and put your links in your profile, tag line etc.

But don't just show up, and spam my forum, or place a profile there and run, I'll ban you and delete your links.

I share this because THAT is what too many people are doing with the Link Packets. It hurts everyone.

So... join a forum, join my forum, join THIS forum. Follow thier rules. Join in a converstaion.

You'll not only get links, you'll make friends, and maybe get customers.

Because....

At the end of the day, it's still PEOPLE that matter.

"Backlinks DON'T BUY!"

Mr Twenty Twenty

[trytolearnmore]

Right now i'm testing the package. If i will see some improvements, i will let you know

[AllAboutAction]

Originally Posted by Titans

famouswatchbrands.com,
created in oct 2008, 1,000,000+ exact searches per month.

.net and .org is still available, grab it while it lasts.

Looks like some crafty warrior took your advice.

[Tom Goodwin]

Lets look at the real search volume here:

If one looks at the Google keyword tool for this keyword, something is clearly not right here:


Keyword Local Search volume Global Search Volume
watch brands 4400 9900
watch 450,000 1,000,000
famous watch brands Not En. Data 1,500,000
famous watch brand Not En. Data 110
famous brand watches 320 480
expensive watches 6600 12100
designer watch 2900 8100
men's watch 14800 22200

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the one number in that mix that does not compute.

So, based upon this data, "famous watch brands" hardly gets searched at all in the U.S., yet is at 1.5M global (most of the other keywords are in the 1/4 -3/4 ratio). This miraculous keyword gets searched 50% more than just "watch"? This plural gets searched 13,636 times as much as the singular?

There is just no way. Either Google let in one malfunctioning number, or else someone screwed with the searching for that keyword in March.

Extrapolating from the other numbers, I would guess that this keyword might get searched, maybe 30-40 times a day, globally.

Now lets look at actual competition. This is one of those types of keywords that seo gurus love to claim that they rank well for, because if one does a general Google search you get back a high number. Its the kind of keyword that might appear sexy at first until you peel back the layers.

But, when you look at the actual competition, that is, sites that are targeting this exact keyword phrase:

inurl:"famousbrandwatches" -- 326
inurl:"famous-brand-watches" -- 6,380
inurl:"famous brand watches" -- 284


Basically, this is the exact type of keyword where one would expect the exact match (keyword) domain (with proper on-page SEO) to rank at the top of Google with zero backlinks.

Originally Posted by Titans

WIIFM?

I spent years covering my tracks from competitors (I had my fair share of fun with dirty gxxxle employees), so why would I expose my network here?

I won't share mine but I can direct you to another pro, how much you can learn from this guy depends on your talent.

famouswatchbrands.com,
created in oct 2008, 1,000,000+ exact searches per month.

.net and .org is still available, grab it while it lasts.

[shaktimaan]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

So, based upon this data, "famous watch brands" hardly gets searched at all in the U.S., yet is at 1.5M global (most of the other keywords are in the 1/4 -3/4 ratio). This miraculous keyword gets searched 50% more than just "watch"? This plural gets searched 13,636 times as much as the singular?

I have found that Global Monthly Search Volume is more accurate than Local Search Volume.

for [watch bands] Global Monthly Search Volume and Local Search Volume are showing the same figures, 60,500

If [watch bands] is highly searched the in us, then [famous watch brands] must be also popular. It is quite clear that Local Search Volume is not accurate for [famous watch brands].

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by shaktimaan

If [watch bands] is highly searched the in us, then [famous watch brands] must be also popular. It is quite clear that Local Search Volume is not accurate for [famous watch brands].

As an American, I could see my self searching for "watch brands" or something. But, "famous watch brands"? Perhaps, "designer watch brands", but who would search for famous watch brands? Its a very odd search, at least to me.

In any event, if the global is good, then the singular version of the keyword gets searched 13,000+x less than the plural? This just does not add up at all. This looks to perhaps be a good xfactor type micro niche site.

[LocoDice]

Hi all,

Just wanted to thank all those who have participated in this for really bringing a lot to the table in debate.

I am trying different things while getting my start in IM and I've really wondered how well these packets go.