Google is Flawed - You Can Influence Other Sites’ Rankings With Backlinks

[neil_patmore]

How do I know? Because I totally messed up 2 of my smaller money sites by creating backlinks to them recently.

I mean totally messed them up, last page of the serps in the supplemental index and not appearing in the search results when I search for the domain without the domain extension. All the hallmarks of a ‘last page of results’ AKA the ‘-950 Google penalty’.

It seemed like a good idea at the time, after all, you can’t hurt a site with backlinks right?

I didn’t just blast the sites with low quality backlinks, but I’m sure the way in which I created around 6k links caused such a drastic penalty.

Well, I could have kicked myself when the sites disappeared.

However I soon realised I've learnt a valuable lesson and possibly acquired something far more powerful than a small money site in #1 spot on Google.

I’ve since removed the backlinks and I’m currently waiting to see if the penalty expires and the sites bounce back. The penalty is an algorithmic penalty, a reply to a reinclusion request confirmed this.

In the wrong hands, this method of backlinking could create carnage for new sites in Google Serps.

Moral of the story? Don’t listen to those that say you can’t hurt a site with backlinks. Instead, be VERY careful with your backlinking.

Want proof? If you have site less than 6 months old, PM me your domain and main keyword and I'll give you the same backlinks.

[33centsaday]

Amen brother. I picked one of the best performing pages on my site (it was in the top 10 but I can't remember where exactly) and decided to follow the backlinking advice on this forum to get it to #1. Instead it disappeared into total obscurity. It took 8 months for it to finally return to page 1, and that's in a very very low competition environment.

[BarryOnline]

What kind of back links did you use & how did you manage to remove 6k?

[cagliostro]

Not true. It just can't happen. Use your logic please.

[neil_patmore]

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

[cagliostro]

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

No need for you to do that, because i have done it myself already. Apart from some up and down, didn't do anything huge.

I have send all kind of Fiverr EDU, Pyramids etc etc.

[33centsaday]

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

I think that's the main issue. I've never seen a link coming from someone else have this effect. It's all this artificial link building stuff we do to ourselves, I think google can tell the difference between 10k people creating 1 link to your site each vs. you creating 10k links to your site. At best google ignores them, at worst they punish you for trying to manipulate the algo.

However, google doesn't mind at all if you create a good internal link structure. Internal links are some of the best you can get too.

[neil_patmore]

I think that's the main issue. I've never seen a link coming from someone else have this effect. It's all this artificial link building stuff we do to ourselves, I think google can tell the difference between 10k people creating 1 link to your site each vs. you creating 10k links to your site.

You'd think so wouldn't you? But the inbound links came from sites hosted in a completely different Geo-location, on a different IP address and using a different CMS platform to the 2 money sites. All sites have Whois Guard and there is absolutely nothing linking the sites together.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by cagliostro

Not true. It just can't happen. Use your logic please.

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end. You'll be able to knock a page out and into oblivion for awhile but heres the key… IT WILL ALWAYS COME BACK, and when it does those links will count. Ive shown this proof a ton of times on this forum.

Google will penalize a page but all their penalties decay. How long does the penalty last? Depends usually between 30-60 days but sometimes can be up to 6-9 months. Just mark my words, you will be making this domain stronger in the long run.

[neil_patmore]

Oh it absolutely can happen. Just a word of advice from a guy who has posted many threads with proof on the subject. You will be making the page more valuable in the end.

Thanks dp40oz.

[PatrickP]

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Barry, the links where from other properties I own on the internet.

Cagliostro, do you have a site less than 6 months old that I can send links to?

NICE!

It is called put up or shut up. Let him send you back links so you can find out for yourself.

If you wont let him prove it then I guess you are afraid it actually COULD happen.

[paulgl]

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

[neil_patmore]

Wow Paul, I sense a stressed man behind your post.

A tad harsh, not to mention pointless don't you think? Is your blood pressure and the risk of a stroke not important to you?

Same offer to you my stressed little friend. Give me a site less than 6 months old and lets find out.

Oh and just so you and I are clear, I've never once claimed that Google owed me or my 'piddly' little site anything. If you carefully read back over my initial post, maybe take a deep breath and relax before you do though, you'll see that this isn't a rant about how my life is now doomed because my 'piddly little site' has vanished.

I have no interest in how many billions 'silly flawed Google' has made either.

I do however, have a huge amount of interest in wether or not I can have a direct impact on competitors rankings for personal profit and gain.

Just so we are clear.

[paulgl]

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

[36burrows]

Look I know there are mixed opinions on this so I can only provide my own experience.

I had also had a site ranked on page 1 getting over 600 visitors per day. I decided to try an "Xrumer" blast to try and solidify the ranking.

Within 24 hours after the "Xrumer" blast, my site was gone. All my traffic was gone as well.

It stayed this way for about 6 months before it finally returned.

Call it "Google Dance" or whatever you want, but the fact is that the site vanished and therefore all revenue stopped for 6 months and the only cause is the xrumer blast.

So anyone claiming that these backlink blasts don't affect your site, I'm sorry but you're wrong.

[unnatural]

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

You'd think so wouldn't you? But the inbound links came from sites hosted in a completely different Geo-location, on a different IP address and using a different CMS platform to the 2 money sites. All sites have Whois Guard and there is absolutely nothing linking the sites together.

Whois Guard doesn't do any good for protecting against Google's eyes - they are a registered domain registrar.

[neil_patmore]

Unnatural, thank you. That is something I didn't know.

[ryanjk13]

Wow! 6 months!

I blasted my site with scrapebox and it disappeared for a couple of days.. Then came back stronger than ever!

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

Paul you are just straight up wrong about this! If you really believe this then put up or shut up. I will guarantee I can get a page on one of your sites penalized easily. Give me any page that is less then 9 months old. Lets do it, because you are SOOOO CONFIDENT!

You can sit behind your computer and keep making irrelevant, uneducated posts that blatantly lie with no factual basis to other members of this forum or you can do actual tests and show results. Google absolutely does penalize websites. They do it constantly. This has been proven many times and you have commented on these particular threads as well saying the same old "blah blah blah proof means nothing, Google is rich and the most brilliant thing in the world and is never wrong, they owe you nothing, stop whining and just do nothing to promote your websites because it bothers me blah blah".

JESUS man you even admit that you don't build backlinks yet somehow you are an authority on how Google reacts to link building. You never offer anything constructive to anyone here. You complain that everyone is wrong and you never prove any of your points other then just screaming your cranky old man opinions. If you want to keep spreading lies fine. If you want to help others out and tell them the truth, give me a page and let me show these other guys how a penalty really works sir. I am confident I will prove my point. I am also so confident that not only will you be penalized but a month or so from now you'll be thanking me for the ranking boost. I KNOW THIS AS FACT BECAUSE IVE TESTED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

[neil_patmore]

Wow! 6 months!

I blasted my site with scrapebox and it disappeared for a couple of days.. Then came back stronger than ever!

I'd just like to point out that this wasn't the result of any sort of blast, Xrumer, Scrapebox/board or anything similar.

The site was around 6 months old, QDF effect had long died off, Google dance from initial backlinking had settled and the site was enjoying a steady #1 ranking in Google.

You can see from the stats below that the site flatlined from around 400 uniques per day to 0. Pretty amazing really!! It's not a google dance where you'd expect to see some spikes here and there. Also, searching for the domain without the suffix doesn't show the site in the results:

[mattlaclear]

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

It is impossible to be penalized by Google from backlinking. Period.

[neil_patmore]

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

The amount of campaigns you've executed is irrelevant. You no doubt have tried and tested methods that work.

Same offer goes out to you and your comrades my friend. Give me a domain to target. One that's ranking #1 and less than 6 months old and lets find out.

[PatrickP]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

See here is proof they do not. A google employee telling how it really is so don't blame google.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

The premise of the OP is utter nonsense. We have run over 5000 successful seo campaigns in the last 15 months and nothing we have seen supports the claims being made by OP.

It is impossible to be penalized by Google from backlinking. Period.

Really, would you like me to show you proof?

Did a Massive Senuke run in 1 day after no link building for weeks. I did this run on June 10th and July 10th.



On June 28th I was testing an auto approve Scrapebox list.



Article Marketing robot blast all in 1 day on June 13th after very little link building the last few months.



This my friends is what they call the "Sandbox". These gentlemen don't have to believe it but it does exist and it is very real. Also notice the last example. I put this in just to show how once the penalty does "decay" you get the link power from those links that penalized you.

The misconception is that there is a "link penalty", there is only an "unnatural link building penalty". You get penalized for building links unnatural and its like going to the penalty box in hockey. They keep you locked up for a little bit then let you loose, the type of links you build will never effect your site its how fast and when you build those links.

[mattlaclear]

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

[PatrickP]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

100% true. If you don't know how to resize pics then you obviously do not know what you are talking about. harumpffffffffffff

[neil_patmore]

Resizing my image will add to an argument about SEO?

Thank you for your constructive addition to this thread.

[trytolearnmore]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

Easy there Matt... there is no need for this language (even if he is wrong).

King regards,
Andrii

[mattlaclear]

Originally Posted by PatrickP

100% true. If you don't know how to resize pics then you obviously do not know what you are talking about. harumpffffffffffff

And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.

[commoditytrainer]

Google doesn't penalize many sites as so many claim, but one thing I would never ever do is get 6000 backlinks to a site in six months. I don't care how great it is, my buddy does the same and runs into some trouble with Google Serps.

[PatrickP]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.

WHAT?

I was agreeing with you ya guru you.

We gotta get rid of the damn sh1t talkers Mark. Together we can clean up WF!

[neil_patmore]

Here you go Boss Man. I hope this meets with your approval:



If you click on it something really really clever happens :-)

Do you want me to add a little unsharp mask to the image? Maybe a bit of Gaussian Blur or perhaps you'd like me to convert it to duotone to print on a two colour lithographic press?

Anything else you'd like just ask :-)

Do you have a domain for me yet?

[mattlaclear]

Originally Posted by neil_patmore

Here you go Boss Man. I hope this meets with your approval:



If you click on it something really really clever happens :-)

Do you want me to add a little unsharp mask to the image? Maybe a bit of Gaussian Blur or perhaps you'd like me to convert it to duotone to print on a two colour lithographic press?

Anything else you'd like just ask :-)

Do you have a domain for me yet?

Much better. See how easy it is to learn something new?

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

And the fact that I have grabbed 5000+ page one rankings in 15 months obviously proves I know very little on the topic.

No, its the fact that you say there is absolutely no such thing as a link penalty which is not true, there is. That does not diminish your skills at SEO 1 bit. You are clearly accomplished just not fully accurate in this 1 instance. Thats all. Just like resizing an image shows nothing about someones intelligence when it comes to link building penalties.

I too have hundreds of page one rankings, not thousands just yet but I swear to god I still don't know exactly what an RSS feed really does in the real world even though I deal with them everyday. Its just 1 thing I am not that well versed in. Doesn't really make me any less competent.

[billaaa777]

Sorry to tell that your logic is wrong. If Google would penalize a site for blasting to many backlinks in a short period, there would be blasting wars taking place.

All you would have to do is send a few Xrumer blast at your competitors to take them do. Google doesn't penalize sites for too many links too quickly for that reason.

[yukon]

The only thing that you'll get is short term SERP bounce from crappy backlinks, so what's the big deal?

50 hand built PR5+ backlinks will counter the silly link blast of profiles, & bring the page right back to page #1 in the SERPs.

As far as the OP challenge, If a site is six months old or less & ranking #1 in the SERPs for their keyword, that tells me the keyword was easy to rank for to begin with. That also tells me that chances are very high they didn't have to do much work building the backlinks it took to rank #1 in the SERPs.

So your going to bounce a site that already has weak backlinks?

It's not a penalty!

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by billaaa777

Sorry to tell that your logic is wrong. If Google would penalize a site for blasting to many backlinks in a short period, there would be blasting wars taking place.

All you would have to do is send a few Xrumer blast at your competitors to take them do. Google doesn't penalize sites for too many links too quickly for that reason.

For new sites with not much trust it does. Send me some of your competition for easy to medium keywords i'll let you know if there is some I can knock out for you. It does work, ive done it. Like I said though they usually come back stronger when the penalty decays. I originally learned that the hard way.

[theverysmartguy]

The people who are saying that they get a penalty from blasting a bunch of links towards a page see it drop off. Sure it does, then it comes back even STRONGER; which is what you were saying as well.

How is that really a penalty? Sure, it drops off for a bit; that is what people call "the google dance".

I have never seen "the google dance" happen with a consistent building of high quality links.I've only seen a steady increase in rankings, never a downward spiral. And with these quality links that I build, I see myself rise higher than the ones with thousands or even tens of thousands of links. Most of those links are obviously low quality, which is what you get with those link blasts anyways.

So if you don't want to see yourself get "sandboxed" or a drastic dip in rankings, then why not just get high quality links to your site instead of these link blasts?

-- Jeff

[cagliostro]

I always enjoy such posting as the original.

Reminds me of threads like "if i don't check my adsense account for days ... it seems i get more clicks and money".

[rahmanpaidar]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

I am also so confident that not only will you be penalized but a month or so from now you'll be thanking me for the ranking boost. I KNOW THIS AS FACT BECAUSE IVE TESTED IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

You complain about Paul is confident while you are also yourself confident

Ok, let's take a breath. Seriously I think this can't be called "penalize".
As you stated you can penalize a page for a month then it will boost.
So I won't call it penalize. This seems to me an algorithmic ways of google life.

The similar situation is also happening for Google +1 in GWT. When a new
visitors vote your pages, you will see a fallen down to zero graph for a
few days in GWT then all things get back to normal leaving you a few more votes
showing up in the graph.

People are right to name this unnamed phenomenas as "penalize", "google dance",
and any other fancy names they like since google was unable to name them

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by rahmanpaidar

You complain about Paul is confident while you are also yourself confident

Ok, let's take breath. Seriously I think this can't be called "penalize".
As you stated you can penalize a page for a month then it will boost.
So I won't call it penalize. This seems to me an algorithmic ways of google life.

The similar situation is also happened for Google +1 in GWT. When a new
visitors vote your pages, you will see a fallen down to zero graph for a
few days in GWT then all things get back to normal leaving you a few more votes
showing up in the graph.

People are right to name this unnamed phenomenas as "penalize", "google dance",
and any other fancy names they like since google was unable to name them

I see your point but it is a penalty. Since when does a penalty have to last forever to be a penalty? I use the timeframe of a month just as an example. Sometimes it can last 6 months. Sometimes 4 months depends. It is Googles version of jail. Thats the same way it works in the regular world. You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty? Also a month is a huge amount of time when one of those pages is making you $50-60 a day.

[rahmanpaidar]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty? Also a month is a huge amount of time when one of those pages is making you $50-60 a day.

Let's not forget that our sites are part of a network of billions websites
and pages. Your ranking is dependent on other sites ranking.
When a site linking to your site lose its ranking, your site will also hit
depends on how your site is dependant to that site. This is one of the
reasons why people can not see any improvement after a lot of hard
working.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

Before talking **** about a topic you obviously know very little about you should at least learn how to resize your images so they fit the formatting of the thread.

It will make your argument at least look intelligent.

No offense, but didn't I see you asking people in another thread just a few days ago how to embed a video into a message? And I believe that people were all too quick to jump in and help you out.

I don't think the size of the image or layout of the thread had anything to do with the argument.

[jasonthewebmaster]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google does not give as many "penalties" as people dream up.
Very seldom, if ever, anything resembling a penalty even comes
up.

But people use these fantasies as an excuse for any search results
being changed. Google changes on split second basis. The results
are dynamic. There is nobody watching and making sure your site
falls. Even though many people think they are that important to
the web. They're not.

Cause and effect are so friggn' mixed up here...it's pathetic.

It can't be because google discovered better sites at the moment.

It can't be because other sites got updated.

It can't be because dynamics in searching changed.

It can't be because a tweak in an algorithm.

It can't be anything else except google penalizing my site.

Dream on. Google does not take a personal interest in YOUR site no
matter how important you think you are.

It just has to be that big, bad, flawed google *sniff* I just know I
have the best site *whimper* and if they don't like it, I must be
*wiping tear drop* getting penalized!

Paul

I totally agree. The "Penalties" everyone complains about are usually not true. In fact, Google has NEVER publicly said their algorithm's penalize sites... yet everyone thinks they do.

The fact is, your backlinks probably have nothing to do with your loss in rankings. It could be a million other factors. Most likely, your competition is doing something right that you are not, and that is why your site is now lower in rankings.

[36burrows]

I don't think we will come to a conclusive agreement here. Too many mixed opinions.

But I think we can all agree on this: don't buy 20k spammy backlinks and expect anything good to come out of it.

consistent quality links > short-cut spammy links

[Nero Arcnumé]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

It is Googles version of jail. Thats the same way it works in the regular world. You do your time then you go back to where you started. Why can't this be called a penalty?

The reason it can't really be called a penalty is that you get to "keep the spoils garnered from the crime" so to speak. If you rob a bank in real life and get out of jail, can you just go on with your life and enjoy the millions you stole? Usually not. But after you get out of Google's prison, you get to keep the power of the backlinks as the profits start trickling in.

I suppose it could be seen as a penalty if you're blasting a page from #10 to #8, seeing only a marginal increase in profits eventhough you had a month or more downtime. But if you're going from #3 to #1, I'd say a month or in some niches even months of downtime can be worth the increased visitors, profits and the potential for expanding the website.

[Kiril S]

It is because people only get low quality backlinks that are mostly spam, and that influences their sites rankings.

Google is smart, and if a steady website that is already getting high quality natural backlinks gets bombarded by his competitor with spammy backlinks, he will experience a small Google dance which will probably improve his ranking. The key here is diversity.

[beakon]

This has been a controversial topic for me over the past few months post panda. Im still doing some extensive testing but so far I have not been able to identify a pattern that obviously hurts a site that I wouldn't attribute to just a dance.

Ive managed to sandbox a few of my sites, but I have no clue what did it as there were many plausible variables.

[ExploringInfinity]

Originally Posted by paulgl

You people mix up cause and effect so many times....

Backlinking causes your site to sink in ratings.

Such BS.

**You get piddly backlinks to your piddly sites, and come
up with all sorts of hallucinations.

Please. Stop backlinking. You will make the internet a better place,
and the rest of us will benefit from your lack of effort.

People just can't get over the fact that google owes you nothing,
could care less about you and your sites. And they don't
take you personally. Period. They don't have a man behind the
curtain following your every move. No matter how important on
the internet you think you and your websites are.

Anybody who peddles this nonsense is just pushing more voodoo
SEO.

You people need to get a grip on reality.

Repeat: Please. Stop backlinking.

Google is flawed - to the tune of billions of dollars in record profits.
If only they would hire their engineers from here....they would be so much
more successful....silly flawed google...

Paul

**Feel free to copy this anywhere.

Copy and paste. / quote.

Thanks for posting it Paul

[John Williamson]

I won't recycle what Paul, Matt, and Yukon have said already (I agree with them completely on this), but here's some math for you folks...

Having a math degree, there are a couple things that come to mind related to this topic, the first being a "conditional" statement in regards to propositional logic. As Matt said, the OP assumes a false premise. The main thing to remember is that correlation does not imply causation.