Best Copywriting Course.

GlenH · 02-04-2011, 07:36 AM

Hey Guy,

What is the best copywriting course on the market?

I think I've narrowed it down to two...

Clayton Makepeace's - Quick-Start Copywriting System

Or John Carlton's Simple Writing System

--Glen

AM Faisal · 02-04-2011, 07:55 AM

Greetings GlenH,

Both the courses you have mentioned are among the best courses on writing copy.

But, for me it has to be Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System just for the sheer quality of swipe materials in there.

Hope that helps..

Kevin Rogers · 02-04-2011, 11:09 AM

Simple Writing System changes lives. Not for all, but for many who enter.

I've been an instructor for John since day one and I've seen more light bulbs go off during those mentoring sessions than with anything else.

I highly recommend the mentoring if you're going to invest though. The course alone is great, but the one-on-one you'll have with your personal instructor (a top level copywriter), plus the ability to lurk over and interact with the other 8-10 best copywriters on the planet (including John) is easily the best education you can get in six weeks.

Side note: The mentoring only happens twice a year (providing John can pull the staff together) but if you get the course beforehand, you get the price reduced from the mentoring if you choose to sign up later.

Clayton's stuff is great as well. Could come down to which style you prefer.

All the best,

Kevin

kellyburdes · 02-04-2011, 12:24 PM

I suspect most people who have purchased a lot of copy courses would agree that either Clayton's Desktop Copy Coach (renamed the Quickstart) or Carlton's Simple Writing System are the best out there.

Clayton has stopped selling products though, so it's not available anymore unless you buy it from someone else.

briancassingena · 02-04-2011, 05:35 PM

I'd like to step in for the Aussies here and recommend Pete Godfrey's stuff, his masterclass course is the best of it's kind down under, Trevor Crook is the other one even though he is hanging out under the Mediterranean sun these days

GlenH · 02-04-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briancassingena

I'd like to step in for the Aussies here and recommend Pete Godfrey's stuff, his masterclass course is the best of it's kind down under, Trevor Crook is the other one even though he is hanging out under the Mediterranean sun these days

Half his luck..

I suppose everyone, including Peter and Trevor learned and honed their skills from someone (or multiple someone's)

Bill Jeffels · 02-04-2011, 06:00 PM

Can't go wrong with John Carlton.

There are some great copywriters. But , I find there are a select few great copywriting teachers. Nothing against , Clayton. He's great. I find Carlton fits my style better. That's me.

Also, as Kevin pointed out if you go for the SWS mentoring program You'll get one on one attention. I just wish I had of been lucky enough as Scott Haines. And spent a month with Gary Halbert.

Carlton is Awsome. Solid material.

Best,

Bill Jeffels

.

Johnny12345 · 02-04-2011, 07:33 PM

Buy Victor Schwab's "How to Write a Good Advertisement." It's about $14.

But, wait, here's the important part...

After you receive the book, place a piece of tape on the cover and write the words "A Complete Copywriting Course!" There... now it's a "course" (and you saved a grand or two).

John

ARSuarez · 02-04-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Buy Victor Schwab's "How to Write a Good Advertisement." It's about $14.

But, wait, here's the important part...

After you receive the book, place a piece of tape on the cover and write the words "A Complete Copywriting Course!" There... now it's a "course" (and you saved a grand or two).

John

That's a great book. Every copywriter should have it.

But comparing it to something like Clayton's course or Carlton's is a poor choice.

Schwab's book says "A Short Course In Copywriting" that gives a brief, albeit detailed, overview of many aspects of copywriting. But John and Clayton offer EXTREMELY DETAILED, lengthy courses that cover pretty much every aspect of the copywriting process. Including creating bonuses, writing deck copy, bullets/fascinations, themes, and a whole assortment of other things Schwab never touches on.

Not meant to argue. But comparing Schwab's book to Makepeace's course, for example... is like comparing a garden hose to a fire hydrant.

Warm regards,

Angel

MikeHumphreys · 02-04-2011, 08:24 PM

My vote would be Clayton Makepeace's course.

I shared my reasons why in this older thread here:

Best Education For Copywriters?

I do like Carlton's Kick-Ass Copywriting Secrets of A Marketing Rebel, especially the sections on bullet writing.

Johnny12345 · 02-04-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARSuarez

Not meant to argue. But comparing Schwab's book to Makepeace's course, for example... is like comparing a garden hose to a fire hydrant.

Not really. I was actually talking about "bang for the buck." In my view, dollar for dollar, Schwab's book represents the best value.

Not convinced? OK, ask yourself this question...

How many classic copywriting books could you buy for the cost of a single guru's "course"?

The answer? A HUGE stack of them.

Personally, I'd rather have the books.

John

briancassingena · 02-04-2011, 10:04 PM

I am wondering - whose course has the best swipe files? Are swipe files really that important? Who has the best ad & sales letter examples in their package?

Rich Lowe · 02-05-2011, 03:48 AM

Hi,

The course Scott Haines put out is pure gold. I also suggest following Kenneth Strong who is a fellow warrior.

The "Motherload" collection by Gary Halbert has to be up there too.

Rich

methomas · 02-05-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny12345

Buy Victor Schwab's "How to Write a Good Advertisement." It's about $14.

But, wait, here's the important part...

After you receive the book, place a piece of tape on the cover and write the words "A Complete Copywriting Course!" There... now it's a "course" (and you saved a grand or two).

John

I have Victor Schwab's "How to Write a Good Advertisement." and it is a very good book!

You can't beat it for the money.

Also, check out Paul Hancox, on this forum...

M E

W.P. Allen · 02-05-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Clayton Makepeace's - Quick-Start Copywriting System

Where would you find this? It's not for sale on his website any more and I couldn't find it on eBay.

The Blueprinter · 02-06-2011, 03:57 AM

I think that John Carlton's Simple Writing System is really great and you can learn so much from that.

Paul Hooper-Kelly · 02-07-2011, 01:11 AM

Hi W P,

Quote:

Where would you find this? It's not for sale on his website any more and I couldn't find it on eBay.

Clayton is now winding down his operation, in readiness to retire to Arizona.

So your best bet is to either haunt eBay or request a used copy here from other Warriors - or both.

Warmest regards,

Paul

ARSuarez · 02-07-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

Where would you find this? It's not for sale on his website any more and I couldn't find it on eBay.

Hey W.P.,

Paul's right. Clayton's course is off the market right now. But, you can try googling it, along with the original version (Desktop Copy Coach).

I'm expecting we might see it resurface in the near future. Clayton might do the same as Brian Keith-Voiles and just sell of the license to the product and lets others reproduce it.

Who knows?

For now, you could try a national search of craigslist

, ebay, maybe Amazon... OR, you can try emailing Clayton's office and see if they can steer you in the right direction. Maybe a returned copy they can sell you.

Best,

Angel

wvcopywriter · 02-08-2011, 10:10 AM

I have read alot of Claytons and John Carlton's articles. I love their writing styles. I have not taken any of their courses yet.

I got started with AWAI's products before I even heard of these guys. I love every course I have taken through AWAI.

I would like to take some course eveually through Clayton and Carlton. You can never learn enough about writing good copy.

Markus Mar · 02-08-2011, 06:37 PM

Bob Serling's Power Copywriting for the Internet is a great course.

Jay Cummins · 02-13-2011, 12:42 AM

Paul Hancox's course is the best out there. You have to actually do the work to get the next lesson. IMO

Jecco

Len Bailey · 02-14-2011, 06:02 PM

Hi Glen,

Both courses are solid, but in my opinion Clayton's is the best out there. Not sure if it's still available, though ... he recently shut down his online store. If you can get your hands on either version (Ultimate Desktop Copy Coach or Quick-Start Copywriting System), you won't regret it. I actually have one of each, so I don't have to carry the monster from one desk to the other. lol

Of course, even Clayton would be the first to agree with Johny12345 -- the first thing you should do is read the masters. Schwab, Hopkins, Ogilvy, etc.

@Methomas - A few years back, I stumbled on a 1962 hardcover of Schwab's How to Write a Good Advertising: A Short Course in Copywriting ... complete with dust jacket and "$5.95" price tag!

Note Taking Nerd #2 · 02-15-2011, 09:20 AM

One of the things that's always occurred to me was that either Clayton's "Ultimate Desktop" or Gary Bencivenga's "100 Seminar" couldn't be beat for sheer brilliant advice on salesmanship in print.

One thing that might slow some IMer's down is the fact that all of their examples of making copy work are from the offline world where those pieces they show you went to huge optimized lists of BUYERS.

Of course the copy was amazing and the tutelage is stellar but one thing people might let stop them is the fact that, "No, I'm not working with Boardroom reports putting together a magalog. No, I'm not a copywriter nor do I want to be a copywriter full time. I know it's important to hone the skill but I'm more interested in becoming the best marketer that I can be. And, I'm starting at zero with no list, no product, and I'm interested in this online marketing thing. Where do I start?"

For this guy, I would immediately turn him to Eben Pagan. His Guru Blueprint course, or Ignition course or his his Guru Mastermind homestudy programs are all A-Z information product business programs but he goes so deep into figuring out what makes your prospect tick, taking principles from Carlton, Bencivenga, and Makepeace and more and making you look at your business and answer questions the way an elite copywriter should but in the whole of the business.

I just finished taking 40+ hours of notes on the Guru Blueprint course and I'd have to say that almost every week of the 12 it was comprised of had copywriting lessons woven into it but they were fed to you in the interest of moving you to the next step in building your business.

He's giving what they need (copywriting coaching) but he's wrapping it in a package that people see themselves as getting closer to the outcome that getting a copywriting course is really about which is getting more freedom for yourself. Not just a box of **** that you need to study.

It's the same thing Frank Kern did with Mass Control. I'd venture to say that course was 90% copywriting coaching and 10% how to put tools to work. And it's not hard to see why he sold a ****-ton of those boxes because he promised the ultimate outcome people wanted... freedom from being scared of their business or the idea of getting money so they can have more awesome choices in their life.

But for any copywriter looking for just plain copywriting advice, I'd have to say that Clayton's Quick Start delves the deepest compared to Carlton's or Bencivenga's products.

Len Bailey · 02-16-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.P. Allen

Where would you find this? It's not for sale on his website any more and I couldn't find it on eBay.

OK, I talked to Wendy and Clayton ... and it turns out that while they shut down the store, they do have a limited amount of inventory left including Clayton's Quick-Start Copywriting System and Online Profit Multiplier.

They aren't advertising this, but if you're interested e-mail them at support@makepeacetotalpackage.com.

Hope this helps,

Len

ARSuarez · 02-18-2011, 03:04 PM

Hi all,

I just wanted to come back and say this:

Clayton's course is awesome, but don't expect to get it on the first go.

Someone once said it would take a year or more to digest everything. I think I agree. I've gone through the course twice now, and I've just begun to master the first 8 chapters (and I believe there are 24, if I'm not mistaken).

Anyway, it's a great course. Get it. But just understand it will take REAL intense study to master it. Like you're actually going to college and have to seriously scrutinize the text for details and scribble hundreds of notes.

It's wonderful.

Best,

Angel

Memaximum · 02-20-2011, 03:10 AM

You know, I cannot imagine how you can become a good copywriter without some linguistic education. Any way you should know some basics to be able to operate them in your texts.

kellyburdes · 02-20-2011, 05:53 AM

Thanks for getting in touch with them to find this out for us Len. I heard back from Wendy on Friday and have ordered OPM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len Bailey

OK, I talked to Wendy and Clayton ... and it turns out that while they shut down the store, they do have a limited amount of inventory left including Clayton's Quick-Start Copywriting System and Online Profit Multiplier.

They aren't advertising this, but if you're interested e-mail them at support@makepeacetotalpackage.com.

Hope this helps,

Len

02-04-2011, 07:36 AM	#1
GlenH HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney - AUSTRALIA. Posts: 454 Thanks: 0 Thanked 35 Times in 24 Posts Contact Info	Best Copywriting Course. Hey Guy, What is the best copywriting course on the market? I think I've narrowed it down to two... Clayton Makepeace's - Quick-Start Copywriting System Or John Carlton's Simple Writing System --Glen
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02-04-2011, 11:09 AM	#3
Kevin Rogers HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 308 Thanks: 156 Thanked 306 Times in 86 Posts Social Networking	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Simple Writing System changes lives. Not for all, but for many who enter. I've been an instructor for John since day one and I've seen more light bulbs go off during those mentoring sessions than with anything else. I highly recommend the mentoring if you're going to invest though. The course alone is great, but the one-on-one you'll have with your personal instructor (a top level copywriter), plus the ability to lurk over and interact with the other 8-10 best copywriters on the planet (including John) is easily the best education you can get in six weeks. Side note: The mentoring only happens twice a year (providing John can pull the staff together) but if you get the course beforehand, you get the price reduced from the mentoring if you choose to sign up later. Clayton's stuff is great as well. Could come down to which style you prefer. All the best, Kevin
	The Conversion Kings

02-04-2011, 12:24 PM	#4
kellyburdes HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 321 Thanks: 114 Thanked 77 Times in 57 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. I suspect most people who have purchased a lot of copy courses would agree that either Clayton's Desktop Copy Coach (renamed the Quickstart) or Carlton's Simple Writing System are the best out there. Clayton has stopped selling products though, so it's not available anymore unless you buy it from someone else.

02-04-2011, 05:35 PM	#5
briancassingena Copywriting Strategy War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Down Under Posts: 347 Thanks: 156 Thanked 92 Times in 50 Posts Social Networking	Re: Best Copywriting Course. I'd like to step in for the Aussies here and recommend Pete Godfrey's stuff, his masterclass course is the best of it's kind down under, Trevor Crook is the other one even though he is hanging out under the Mediterranean sun these days
	Copywriting Secrets Of Million Dollar Marketers Revealed: With Bond & Kevin Halbert, Pete Godfrey, Mitch Carson, Trevor 'ToeCracker' Crook & More...Launching Soon-To get on the earlybird VIP Pre-Notification list and get $884 in FREE gifts CLICK HERE

02-04-2011, 06:00 PM	#7
Bill Jeffels Copywriter / Marketer War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 377 Thanks: 143 Thanked 92 Times in 82 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Can't go wrong with John Carlton. There are some great copywriters. But , I find there are a select few great copywriting teachers. Nothing against , Clayton. He's great. I find Carlton fits my style better. That's me. Also, as Kevin pointed out if you go for the SWS mentoring program You'll get one on one attention. I just wish I had of been lucky enough as Scott Haines. And spent a month with Gary Halbert. Carlton is Awsome. Solid material. Best, Bill Jeffels .
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02-04-2011, 07:55 AM	#2
AM Faisal Mr. Action Taker War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 269 Thanks: 94 Thanked 158 Times in 25 Posts Contact Info	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Greetings GlenH, Both the courses you have mentioned are among the best courses on writing copy. But, for me it has to be Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System just for the sheer quality of swipe materials in there. Hope that helps..

02-04-2011, 07:33 PM	#8
Johnny12345 John Palmieri, Copywriter War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 797 Thanks: 134 Thanked 118 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Buy Victor Schwab's "How to Write a Good Advertisement." It's about $14. But, wait, here's the important part... After you receive the book, place a piece of tape on the cover and write the words "A Complete Copywriting Course!" There... now it's a "course" (and you saved a grand or two). John
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02-04-2011, 08:24 PM	#10
MikeHumphreys Copywriter and Marketer War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Philly Suburbs, USA Posts: 2,831 Thanks: 873 Thanked 776 Times in 406 Posts Social Networking	Re: Best Copywriting Course. My vote would be Clayton Makepeace's course. I shared my reasons why in this older thread here: Best Education For Copywriters? I do like Carlton's Kick-Ass Copywriting Secrets of A Marketing Rebel, especially the sections on bullet writing.
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02-04-2011, 10:04 PM	#12
briancassingena Copywriting Strategy War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Down Under Posts: 347 Thanks: 156 Thanked 92 Times in 50 Posts Social Networking	Re: Best Copywriting Course. I am wondering - whose course has the best swipe files? Are swipe files really that important? Who has the best ad & sales letter examples in their package?
	Copywriting Secrets Of Million Dollar Marketers Revealed: With Bond & Kevin Halbert, Pete Godfrey, Mitch Carson, Trevor 'ToeCracker' Crook & More...Launching Soon-To get on the earlybird VIP Pre-Notification list and get $884 in FREE gifts CLICK HERE

02-05-2011, 03:48 AM	#13
Rich Lowe Rich War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 172 Thanks: 2 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Hi, The course Scott Haines put out is pure gold. I also suggest following Kenneth Strong who is a fellow warrior. The "Motherload" collection by Gary Halbert has to be up there too. Rich

02-06-2011, 03:57 AM	#16
The Blueprinter HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: USA Posts: 170 Thanks: 28 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. I think that John Carlton's Simple Writing System is really great and you can learn so much from that.
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02-08-2011, 10:10 AM	#19
wvcopywriter Email Autoresponder Copy Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: WV Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Best Copywriting Course. I have read alot of Claytons and John Carlton's articles. I love their writing styles. I have not taken any of their courses yet. I got started with AWAI's products before I even heard of these guys. I love every course I have taken through AWAI. I would like to take some course eveually through Clayton and Carlton. You can never learn enough about writing good copy.
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02-08-2011, 06:37 PM	#20
Markus Mar Active Warrior Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 86 Thanks: 20 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Bob Serling's Power Copywriting for the Internet is a great course.

02-13-2011, 12:42 AM	#21
Jay Cummins I'm just here 4 the water War Room Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 50 Thanks: 54 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Paul Hancox's course is the best out there. You have to actually do the work to get the next lesson. IMO Jecco

02-14-2011, 06:02 PM	#22
Len Bailey Copywriter, Consultant War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 107 Blog Entries: 13 Thanks: 41 Thanked 71 Times in 37 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Hi Glen, Both courses are solid, but in my opinion Clayton's is the best out there. Not sure if it's still available, though ... he recently shut down his online store. If you can get your hands on either version (Ultimate Desktop Copy Coach or Quick-Start Copywriting System), you won't regret it. I actually have one of each, so I don't have to carry the monster from one desk to the other. lol Of course, even Clayton would be the first to agree with Johny12345 -- the first thing you should do is read the masters. Schwab, Hopkins, Ogilvy, etc. @Methomas - A few years back, I stumbled on a 1962 hardcover of Schwab's How to Write a Good Advertising: A Short Course in Copywriting ... complete with dust jacket and "$5.95" price tag!
	Len Bailey Copywriter, Consultant http://twitter.com/LenBailey http://www.linkedin.com/in/lenbailey

02-15-2011, 09:20 AM	#23
Note Taking Nerd #2 Active Warrior Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts Social Networking	Re: Best Copywriting Course. One of the things that's always occurred to me was that either Clayton's "Ultimate Desktop" or Gary Bencivenga's "100 Seminar" couldn't be beat for sheer brilliant advice on salesmanship in print. One thing that might slow some IMer's down is the fact that all of their examples of making copy work are from the offline world where those pieces they show you went to huge optimized lists of BUYERS. Of course the copy was amazing and the tutelage is stellar but one thing people might let stop them is the fact that, "No, I'm not working with Boardroom reports putting together a magalog. No, I'm not a copywriter nor do I want to be a copywriter full time. I know it's important to hone the skill but I'm more interested in becoming the best marketer that I can be. And, I'm starting at zero with no list, no product, and I'm interested in this online marketing thing. Where do I start?" For this guy, I would immediately turn him to Eben Pagan. His Guru Blueprint course, or Ignition course or his his Guru Mastermind homestudy programs are all A-Z information product business programs but he goes so deep into figuring out what makes your prospect tick, taking principles from Carlton, Bencivenga, and Makepeace and more and making you look at your business and answer questions the way an elite copywriter should but in the whole of the business. I just finished taking 40+ hours of notes on the Guru Blueprint course and I'd have to say that almost every week of the 12 it was comprised of had copywriting lessons woven into it but they were fed to you in the interest of moving you to the next step in building your business. He's giving what they need (copywriting coaching) but he's wrapping it in a package that people see themselves as getting closer to the outcome that getting a copywriting course is really about which is getting more freedom for yourself. Not just a box of ** that you need to study. It's the same thing Frank Kern did with Mass Control. I'd venture to say that course was 90% copywriting coaching and 10% how to put tools to work. And it's not hard to see why he sold a **-ton of those boxes because he promised the ultimate outcome people wanted... freedom from being scared of their business or the idea of getting money so they can have more awesome choices in their life. But for any copywriter looking for just plain copywriting advice, I'd have to say that Clayton's Quick Start delves the deepest compared to Carlton's or Bencivenga's products.
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02-18-2011, 03:04 PM	#25
ARSuarez HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL Posts: 403 Blog Entries: 4 Thanks: 413 Thanked 213 Times in 129 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. Hi all, I just wanted to come back and say this: Clayton's course is awesome, but don't expect to get it on the first go. Someone once said it would take a year or more to digest everything. I think I agree. I've gone through the course twice now, and I've just begun to master the first 8 chapters (and I believe there are 24, if I'm not mistaken). Anyway, it's a great course. Get it. But just understand it will take REAL intense study to master it. Like you're actually going to college and have to seriously scrutinize the text for details and scribble hundreds of notes. It's wonderful. Best, Angel

02-20-2011, 03:10 AM	#26
Memaximum Warrior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: London Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Best Copywriting Course. You know, I cannot imagine how you can become a good copywriter without some linguistic education. Any way you should know some basics to be able to operate them in your texts.
	Last edited by Memaximum; 03-06-2011 at 03:37 AM. Reason: spelling