Long Copy - How long is too long?

[Ed H]

Hi Warriors,

I'm working on the sales page for my first product (an ebook on a medical treatment).

Since this is a condition I've faced myself, and cured, I am recounting my trials and tribulations with the condition, and am writing quite a bit. I just pasted the draft into word (I've been working in Evernote which has no page or word count), and I am at 3000 words, and 6 pages. I am probably 75% done at this point.

I know the length is a very subjective item, but would love to get some thoughts from folks with more experience than me (which is anyone here!)


Questions:
1. I've heard the advice, it can't be too long, just too boring. I think what I have so far is entertaining, as I am telling a story many can relate to. But, is it going to be too long for a sales page? At this pace, I will be at over 5000 words before I am done.

2. if this is too long, is it better to start trimming now, or should I finish the full story and then go back and trim?

Any constructive feedback is really appreciated! Thanks!

UPDATE: Here is the sales page, feedback appreciated.
Long Copy - How long is too long?

-Ed

[lemonarian]

Write until you're done, and then cut out everything that isn't necessary. Take Stephen King's advice... The second draft is the first draft -10%.

As far as too long goes... it's true that it can never be too long, only too boring. Use as many words as you need to make a complete case for your offer. Case in point: one of John Carlton's most famous, and brilliant ads is the one he wrote to bodybuilders... "An Open Letter To Every Bodybuilder Who Secretly Believe Most Nutritional Supplements Are Garbage" ... it was 16 pages.

Much of the magalog-type stuff go on for 20 pages or more.

The lesson here is that it can't be too long... but it shouldn't be too long either. If that makes sense. It should be as long as it needs to be and no longer.

[adamlantelme]

I'm going to agree with lemonarian.

Long copy seems to pull very well for certain types of products. It's obvious why an 18 page letter written to a highly targeted audience interested in Mutual funds would do much better than a space ad.

Likewise, if a store has BF goodrich Mud terrains at 30 dollars off per tire, well a space ad would do a fine job of getting attention and bringing customers in. No need for anything more than a just over one hundred words at the very maximum.

All the greats know and write long copy, because they know it provides the best possible way of persuading someone to buy. So, if it literally does take 5,000 words, and you aren't just rambling and aimless, then go with it.

[Ed H]

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for the feedback, and quick response. I'll keep going with the writing, and then start snipping where it make sense.

I'm hoping to finish this up in the next day, and then of course I'll post a link and ask for even more feedback :-)

Best,
-Ed

[ThomasOMalley]

Hi Vans,

Definitely write your first draft and then edit later.

Most information marketers have found that longer copy is required for most expensive info. products. It's pretty hard to sell a $300 plus product in just one or two pages.

But if you have a $29 ebook, for example...15 pages seems like overkill.

Best,

Thomas O'Malley

[Stephen Dean]

I can't remember the name...

...but there was a quote from a director that said one of his best talents was his ability to cut scenes he loved from a film. Even though he liked the scene, he knew it wasn't right for the movie.

You've gotta be willing to do that for your copy as well. Read it out loud several times, you'll find the boring spots and know what to cut - if you're willing to trust your gut.

Cheers,
Stephen Dean

[Ed H]

This is a good point, and I should have included this in the initial post. The price point for this product will be in the $19-$35 range.

Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley

Hi Vans,

Definitely write your first draft and then edit later.

Most information marketers have found that longer copy is required for most expensive info. products. It's pretty hard to sell a $300 plus product in just one or two pages.

But if you have a $29 ebook, for example...15 pages seems like overkill.

Best,

Thomas O'Malley

[MissLauraCatella]

Whose the market? Is it people who like to read a lot?

The length of my pieces is always proportionate to my estimate of the market's attention span. Some spans are much longer than others.

The more aware your incoming readers are about the condition, the stresses of it, possible cures, etc., the less telling they need...

But! The better the telling, the more they'll appreciate it.

Of course, I still suggest just keeping it to what they need and nothing more.

You're writing copy for them, not for yourself. If you want to really share your story, you can work that into your product or sales funnel plenty of other ways - special report, case study, 5 part e-mail newsletter all come to mind. Good luck

[Samuel Mitaro]

I think copy length should be loosely based on four factors...
1. Subject. A laptop requires more selling than skin lotion does.
2. Audience type. A prestige-seeking executive will shop harder than a teen.
3. Environment. If a prospect clicks on a link to a landing page, he has already demonstrated his interest, while a person sifting through his overflowing inbox is in high gear and is likely to make a quick decision.
4. Purpose. More length is required to turn mild interest into a sale, while less is required to capture an email address or get a click-through.

This system isn't perfect, but it should give you a hint.

Never stop drafting to edit! Plow your way through until you're done, then slice and dice. Have fun!

[TN3Gallery]

Depends on the topic and its audience. The less educated the audience is, usually, the more text they need (my own experience). Techies need short snappy copy and the bare facts.

[Ed H]

Thanks again for all the thoughts everyone.

I finished up the copy last night, and have started formatting it into a sales page. It really does seem way to looooooong. I'm going to work on a major trim today, and see how it looks.

I think I'll wind up using most of it inside the book, or as a bonus somehow. I'm not sure where it will end up, but my gut tells me ~2500 words is where I should be now that I've looked at all of it on a single sales page.

I'll share out a link once it is cleaned up.

[travlinguy]

If you're hung up on how long it is while you're still writing chances are it's not going to work. Just write. When you're finished edit with this in mind: Does this bit advance my cause. Your cause is to sell.

If you need to develop an example or personal account that ends up being 1000 words, do it. But remember there has to be a purpose to it. It's hard to comment without knowing what you're selling.

If you have a story that continues to subtly (or maybe not so subtly) sing the praises of whatever you're promoting then the length won't matter. Formatting will matter. You'll break that sucker into short paragraphs with compelling paragraph headlines. You’ll continue to summarize each point with bullets and highlighted benefits. Each chunk will be written to make the reader crazy to read the next one.

If you're good at this people who claim they hate long copy will read the whole thing and not even realize it. I have a sales letter right now that's over 8000 words. When I sent it around to my critique buddies they said they couldn't stop reading because they wanted to know how it came out! Duh. It comes out with the underdog winning because he bought the freekin' product. That's the only way it can come out.

Forget about how long it is and just sell.

[michaelgrisso]

Yea I tend to agree with the fact that it depends on the target audience and the product.

You're going to have the people out there who are looking to invest money and know this will be a long term venture. These will be the individuals looking for as much information as possible.

Then you will have the people on tighter budgets who don't want to spend a lot, but still want plenty of value for a cheap price. These are your "in-betweeners" where some will want tons of information and others will read part of it and scroll to the bottom of the page.

Then of course you have the individuals who have no idea what they're doing. They are hooked by the hype and just see that you are going to help them make money.

The whole "Stephen King" quote from earlier is definitely the best way to go. Taking out an additional 10% after your initial draft will make it more compact, keep readers interested, and get them to the payment area more frequently.

Good luck!

[Ed H]

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Forget about how long it is and just sell.

I might print this out and tape it on my wall :-)

[OnlineMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Stephen Dean

Read it out loud several times, you'll find the boring spots and know what to cut - if you're willing to trust your gut.

This is a simple yet great tip.. It baffles me how many people never do this. For so many pieces, if someone was just to just read it out loud before launching it, they'd realize that a lot of it sounds flat out silly and jagged. (like this previous sentence lol)

It needs to read like a conversation and this is the best way to ensure exactly that. Of course, this is even more critical for video sales letters.

[David Hooper]

It's never too long, only too boring.

[Cam Connor]

Originally Posted by Ed H

Questions:
1. I've heard the advice, it can't be too long, just too boring. I think what I have so far is entertaining, as I am telling a story many can relate to. But, is it going to be too long for a sales page? At this pace, I will be at over 5000 words before I am done.

2. if this is too long, is it better to start trimming now, or should I finish the full story and then go back and trim?

Don't worry about the word count, just focus on covering the topic, and saying everything you need to say, and you'll be fine. :-) Don't let anyone get into your head on this n' that... you just gotta use your intuition to a degree, that's why us Copywriters make the big bucks, this isn't something that a certain code you can punch in, and an exact formula all the time... so, sometimes you've just gotta use you're better judgment.

But solid copy always prevails, as long as it's long enough to cover everything you needed to say, and in a way that's fun, interesting and grabs your reader and glues them steadfast to your page. ;-) Keep at it. I'm sure it will turn out great.

[ahmadbasyir]

If it's too long, you may change the text into graphic text with some highlighted words...
It would be nice.. ;-)

[rayleighlord]

I recommend you to write everything you want to share, then after you have already wrote what you think "needs" to be in your ebook, then start trimming by removing all the unwanted words, wrong grammars (if there is), unimportant notes or paragraphs. Just leave what is important and that make sense.

Sometimes, I make an outline of what I am going to write. At least I have something to follow when writing and that I wouldn't lost track of it. Ponder on some good points, explain it well too. You shouldn't also go around the bush.

[Enis]

Imagine yourself as a customer or just look into other similar products to yours that have done well and model after those.

[AdilAmarsi]

I'm sure someones already said this but I'll reiterate but when I spoke with John Carlton on the matter, too long is when you say more than you need to, meaning if I wrote out a bar room convo with you and it was 3 pages and that's all but I got out everything I wanted to say to you. Well then I've done my job, that sales letter would do... of course you go back to edit it to change out words so they are more hard hitting.

I usually write (now a days) like if it was for a news paper and i was paying per line of text.

Hope this helps.

[Mel White]

Speaking from the reader's point of view, the moment I hit what's very obviously a long sales copy, I click away. I hate the long buildup.

And if you're looking for solutions, you'd really rather have someone "cut to the chase" rather than spin out feel good stories and things like that. Imagine you're back in your old urgent "I need to FIX this state!" Did you read every single word of every article you found, or did you start with the first few paragraphs and click away if it didn't start offering you help and new information within 100 words or so?

Long articles work on people trained to believe in long articles. But if you look at articles on self help websites and on medical websites, you will see that they're short (but contain links to more in depth info.)

Just my 2 cents' worth. And, remember -- I hate long articles that are full of testimonials.

[Tedel]

As a rule of thumb, if the product is cheap or necessary, keep your copy short and to the point. If it is expensive or not necessary, make your copy longer and more informative.

My .02

[Alex Cohen]

Long Copy - How long is too long?

Anything over three words ("Claim my stuff") and a buy button is too long. Well, if you want to add "please" that would be okay.

And be sure to make the words and button as small as possible. As difficult to read as you can.

Alex

[Shawn Lee]

When I write my sales copy, I don't really care how long it is. The length of the sales copy is not the deciding factor whether your prospect will buy your product.

Usually sales copy tend to be long because it has to include all that is required to convince your reader to make that purchase.

For me, I will list down as many benefits as I can think of, and write it as long as I want to. After which, I'll cut out all the unnecessary details and make it as concise as possible.

However, your sales copy cannot be boring. You must constantly compel your readers to continue reading on, throughout the entire sales copy, or else you'll start losing them.

Hope this helps.

[Ed H]

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I got sidetracked on a more pressing project, but now have the sales page (mostly) up for this (though I have not been driving traffic yet). Still need to add images and some formatting.

Anyway, the long copy is here:
Stop Plantar Fasciitis | The Simple, Fast Cure for Plantar Fasciitis and Heel Pain
I'd appreciate any constructive feedback and suggestions.

Based on the previous feedback here, I plan to trim this version dramatically, and then do some A/B testing.

Thanks again!
-Ed

[DougHughes]

How long is too long?

If you're doing space ads you only have a limited space

Copy that doesn't sell is always too long, too short, or too boring depending on how customers perceive it.

But...can you sell with short copy? Yes, absolutely, and price has a lot to do with it. I have one product that sells for $9.99. I have been selling the heck out of that product with fewer than 250 words.

Whatever it takes to get the sale.