Why Didn't I Do This Earlier!? (100 New Subscribers In 7 Hours)

96 replies
Hi Warriors

Today I did something that I've been meaning to do for a while, but was either too lazy to do it, or was worried I didn't have the technical ability to implement it.

All I did today was:

1. Pay $67 for a popular exit pop up script

2. Watched a 15 minute instructional video

3. Spent about two minutes inserting the code

4. Spent one minute uploading the new page

5. Went to the pub

6. Came back later a bit worse for wear but with 100 brand new subscribers to a brand new email list that I set up specifically for this experiment.

Those 100 brand new subscribers have come from about 1,000 visits to my salespage.

I have another site that has had 277,000 visits over the last 18 months (although some have been junk traffic). If I'd had an exit pop up that converted the same amount, I'd have an extra 27,000 subscribers.

What a missed opportunity!

Are any other Warriors using exit pop ups effectively? Or any other strategies that you wish you had implemented earlier?

James
#100 #earlier #hours #subscribers
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

    Are any other Warriors using exit pop ups effectively?
    Good success. Personally, I won't use them under any circumstances.
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    • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Good success. Personally, I won't use them under any circumstances.
      Just curious as to why not.

      Is it because you personally don't like them? If yes, big mistake.

      I was watching a great webinar on video sales letters featuring Chris Haddad and he was saying how he has serious ADD (not sure if it was for real, or just when it comes to online stuff).

      Chris also said how that means never watching video sales letters because he never has the patience to watch them in their entirety.

      However, he understands that VSLs are excellent means of selling online products and services. If you don't know Chris, he's one of the best copywriters out there, both for traditional long form sales letters and VSL scripts.

      Wouldn't it have been silly for him not to use or write VSLs simply because he personally doesn't have the patience to watch them?

      He would personally have lost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in sales, had he not ever used VSLs in his business.

      Now as for exit pop-ups, when used properly, they're effective, as James has shown quite well. I know they get a bad name when idiots use half a dozen of them on the same website. But by simply refusing to use them, you're losing lots of traffic (and later, sales) that you would have otherwise gotten.

      Granted, exit traffic subscribers aren't as valuable as paying customers, but it's better than losing them altogether, isn't it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

        Is it because you personally don't like them? If yes, big mistake.
        Big mistake? Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

        If standing for what you believe in is a mistake, then I'll be wrong all day long. I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

        Period.
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        • Profile picture of the author HigherPrThanGod
          Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

          Big mistake? Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

          If standing for what you believe in is a mistake, then I'll be wrong all day long. I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

          Period.
          You go boy. I have a tendency to think the same way. The moment I see a pop up on ANY SITE, I'm gone. There's something so bitchy about it.

          But that's just me.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
            Pardon me for pointing out the obvious...

            Originally Posted by HigherPrThanGod View Post

            The moment I see a pop up on ANY SITE, I'm gone.
            We're discussing "Exit-Pops" and, by their very nature, you were
            going before you saw it.

            John
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        • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
          Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

          Big mistake? Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

          If standing for what you believe in is a mistake, then I'll be wrong all day long. I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

          Period.
          I understand that you have your principles and I respect that.

          But I presented an argument to go along with my opinion.

          Here are some more facts:
          -many people hate upsells (all of them), but it would be stupid to NEVER use them
          -most people who hate exit pops only hate them because they've never encountered one that was used properly
          -exit pop-ups are most effective when offering something of value - namely, a valuable freebie
          -if you are within the target audience, one or (max) two properly crafted exit pops should not annoy you at all because it'll offer something you're at least somewhat interested in
          -if you use exit pops properly, you may still piss off a few people, but you'll gain valuable subscribers who may eventually turn into loyal customers and followers
          -many people who say they hate exit pops do not fully understand, if at all, why they are used or how they are supposed to be used (and therefore, their opinions are unsupported)

          I'm not trying to come off as offensive or insulting. But whenever a thread gets started about upsells or pop-ups, we always get the bandwagoners who say nothing until something negative pops up (pun somewhat intended), and then the comments come rolling in:

          "Yeah, I hate them too!"
          "I never buy from upsells because they're evil!"
          "Pop-ups totally turn me off!"

          You know what? You're entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is less valid (i.e. is poorly supported) than a different opinion, maybe it's time to take the time to understand the other position.

          I wasn't exactly addressing you in particular all throughout this post, Steven. Just to people in general.
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          • Profile picture of the author Itachi
            wow i never thought an exit popup would have so much impact , altought for a sale page i think it make sense , if you put an exit popup with an opt-in form you will be able to establish a relationship and build more confidence , and then maybe the person will buy the product .

            To be honest i was curious about a product , so i visited the sale page , then i registered to the mailing list after an exit popup , and after viewing the content from his mailing list im getting tempted to buy it . if you wanna ask me about the product you can ask me by PM , i just don't wanna do advertising =) . If i do purchase it i might put my review on the review sections , there is already a thread about it .
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            • Profile picture of the author entry
              Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

              Big mistake? Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

              If standing for what you believe in is a mistake, then I'll be wrong all day long. I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

              Period.


              Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

              I understand that you have your principles and I respect that.

              But I presented an argument to go along with my opinion.

              Here are some more facts:
              -many people hate upsells (all of them), but it would be stupid to NEVER use them
              -most people who hate exit pops only hate them because they've never encountered one that was used properly
              -exit pop-ups are most effective when offering something of value - namely, a valuable freebie
              -if you are within the target audience, one or (max) two properly crafted exit pops should not annoy you at all because it'll offer something you're at least somewhat interested in
              -if you use exit pops properly, you may still piss off a few people, but you'll gain valuable subscribers who may eventually turn into loyal customers and followers
              -many people who say they hate exit pops do not fully understand, if at all, why they are used or how they are supposed to be used (and therefore, their opinions are unsupported)

              I'm not trying to come off as offensive or insulting. But whenever a thread gets started about upsells or pop-ups, we always get the bandwagoners who say nothing until something negative pops up (pun somewhat intended), and then the comments come rolling in:

              "Yeah, I hate them too!"
              "I never buy from upsells because they're evil!"
              "Pop-ups totally turn me off!"

              You know what? You're entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is less valid (i.e. is poorly supported) than a different opinion, maybe it's time to take the time to understand the other position.

              I wasn't exactly addressing you in particular all throughout this post, Steven. Just to people in general.
              There are 2 sides to a story, and there are pros and cons in this.

              boys, please dont fight lol
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
            Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

            You know what? You're entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is less valid (i.e. is poorly supported) than a different opinion, maybe it's time to take the time to understand the other position.
            My opinion is, indeed, MUCH more valid than yours -- or anyone else's -- because my opinion applies to ME. So there's no need for support other than the pure fact that my principles won't permit me to do something that I feel is disrespectful to the majority of the users of all of my sites.

            Understand, of course, that I'm not saying anyone else should take the same approach that I have. Site owners should make that decision for themselves. Like I've stated, I won't buy from any IMer's site that uses popups, and I won't sign up for their mailing list, either. If they want me to subscribe, then they need to do a better job up front instead of trying to derail me when I'm trying to leave.

            If I went into the grocery store to buy milk and found out that they didn't have the brand of milk I wanted to buy, and as I was going out the door a clerk from the store accosted me, dragged me back in, and shouted at me that I really, really, REALLY don't want to miss this incredible opportunity to buy milk at a RIDICULOUSLY LOW PRICE, I can assure you that not only wouldn't I buy their milk, but I'd never return to that store again.
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            • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
              Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post


              If I went into the grocery store to buy milk and found out that they didn't have the brand of milk I wanted to buy, and as I was going out the door a clerk from the store accosted me, dragged me back in, and shouted at me that I really, really, REALLY don't want to miss this incredible opportunity to buy milk at a RIDICULOUSLY LOW PRICE, I can assure you that not only wouldn't I buy their milk, but I'd never return to that store again.
              What if they simply said.

              "Hi Sir, while we don't have the brand you want, perhaps you'd be interested in this brand of milk instead?"

              That's what I'm doing.

              I'm not dragging anyone back into my site, I'm simply intercepting them.

              In both examples, you can simply say "No thanks" in half a second and be away.

              I appreciate your opinion though. There's many things my morals won't allow me to do, but this I'm okay with if done tactfully.

              James
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

                What if they simply said.

                "Hi Sir, while we don't have the brand you want, perhaps you'd be interested in this brand of milk instead?"
                I'd respectfully tell them that if I wanted the other brand of milk, I would have chosen it without their recommendation -- and left quietly, never to return to their store again.
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                • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
                  Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                  I'd respectfully tell them that if I wanted the other brand of milk, I would have chosen it without their recommendation -- and left quietly, never to return to their store again.
                  What if you weren't aware the other brand of milk was available because it wasn't visible to you? For example, it was out the back.

                  For example, a prospect comes to my site where they can buy my list building report for $9.95. That's the only thing they can do on that page. They might not have $9.95, but want to read some good quality list building info.

                  So when they press the X and get offered a free list building report, maybe they'd be happy to download it?

                  Anyway, I never thought this thread would descend into a discussion about the availability of certain brands of milk

                  I appreciate your opinion greatly, Steven. If it's something you aren't cool with doing, that's fine.

                  But I am, and I will, and it works.

                  James
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                    James:

                    Please understand, each marketer must decide for themselves what methods they are comfortable with. Not seller is the same, not every customer is the same. In the end, if I use a tactic that I couldn't respect as a consumer, then I can't in good conscience use that tactic just because it happens to get me a few more sales/sign ups.

                    Everyone is entitled to run their enterprise the way they see fit.

                    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

                    For example, a prospect comes to my site where they can buy my list building report for $9.95. That's the only thing they can do on that page. They might not have $9.95, but want to read some good quality list building info.

                    So when they press the X and get offered a free list building report, maybe they'd be happy to download it?
                    Maybe they would. But how about taking another approach? How about selling your report for $9.95 and offering a "buy" button and a "no thanks" button? No thanks --> new page offering the free report.

                    How about a "sorry, I don't have $9.95 right now" button?

                    Many marketers don't disclose the "free" option because they fear it will (gasp!) reduce their conversion rate.

                    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

                    I appreciate your opinion greatly, Steven. If it's something you aren't cool with doing, that's fine.

                    But I am, and I will, and it works.
                    And isn't that the bottom line? We're each free to do what we feel is best for OUR OWN business.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
                      Steven

                      I can appreciate your anology etc and respect your reasons for them but any tool used unwisely is going to cause dissent. Exit pop ups are a case in point.

                      There is nothing wrong in using exit pop ups, it's how they are used that cause the problem and the reasons why many folks dislike them so much.

                      I don't use them very often but when I do I always set them so they don't pop again for that particular person within a set time. It's obvious to me that if someone hasn't responded to it at first, they won't respond to it 10 secs later.

                      Also think your analogy re the milk is slightly off kilter. If I went to my local shop and they didn't have my usual brand but suggested another one was just as good then I'd be really pleased and would most likely buy it. I certainly wouldn't want to boycott them because of their helpful suggestion. (I need my milk to help flavour my coffee addiction :rolleyes

                      Kim

                      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                      James:

                      Please understand, each marketer must decide for themselves what methods they are comfortable with. Not seller is the same, not every customer is the same. In the end, if I use a tactic that I couldn't respect as a consumer, then I can't in good conscience use that tactic just because it happens to get me a few more sales/sign ups.

                      Everyone is entitled to run their enterprise the way they see fit.



                      Maybe they would. But how about taking another approach? How about selling your report for $9.95 and offering a "buy" button and a "no thanks" button? No thanks --> new page offering the free report.

                      How about a "sorry, I don't have $9.95 right now" button?

                      Many marketers don't disclose the "free" option because they fear it will (gasp!) reduce their conversion rate.



                      And isn't that the bottom line? We're each free to do what we feel is best for OUR OWN business.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                        Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

                        Also think your analogy re the milk is slightly off kilter. If I went to my local shop and they didn't have my usual brand but suggested another one was just as good then I'd be really pleased and would most likely buy it. I certainly wouldn't want to boycott them because of their helpful suggestion. (I need my milk to help flavour my coffee addiction)
                        Kim:

                        If I was standing in the dairy section and some helpful clerk offered me that suggestion, then I wouldn't think twice about it -- but if they stood in my way and blocked the door as I tried to leave so that they could try to sell me that milk, I guarantee you that I would become extremely perturbed.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                          Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                          Kim:

                          If I was standing in the dairy section and some helpful clerk offered me that suggestion, then I wouldn't think twice about it -- but if they stood in my way and blocked the door as I tried to leave so that they could try to sell me that milk, I guarantee you that I would become extremely perturbed.
                          You must hate most of the tech stores when they sell their extended warranties or McDonalds asking if you want fries.

                          Seems your example is changing somewhat.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                            You must hate most of the tech stores when they sell their extended warranties or McDonalds asking if you want fries.

                            Seems your example is changing somewhat.
                            No, its the same. Yeah, I do hate the extended warranty sales crap. I don't eat at McDonald's.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                              Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                              No, its the same. Yeah, I do hate the extended warranty sales crap. I don't eat at McDonald's.

                              I don't like them either but still shop at those stores.

                              From my experience, most people won't like like offer, product, sales page, videos, domain name, photo of me (hard to believe ), or whatever.

                              So I am not bothered if someone hates a pop up (I am not using any at this time).

                              If my conversions increase then that means more people are liking what I am doing which is good enough for me.

                              I never understood how some people can make these types of things an ethical argument. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves but still don't see the ethics side of it.

                              I hate watching commercials but if I want to watch television I have to put up with them. How dare they treat me that way! :p
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
                                I agree Tom, I don't think this particular argument is a case of ethics either, its just about whether you want to take the risk of royally piss your customers off.

                                I've used exit pop ups very successfully (and I've tested both) and yes they work. However I ensure they don't pop continually etc, I think it's that which tends to upset folks more than anything.

                                Kim

                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                I don't like them either but still shop at those stores.

                                From my experience, most people won't like like offer, product, sales page, videos, domain name, photo of me (hard to believe ), or whatever.

                                So I am not bothered if someone hates a pop up (I am not using any at this time).

                                If my conversions increase then that means more people are liking what I am doing which is good enough for me.

                                I never understood how some people can make these types of things an ethical argument. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves but still don't see the ethics side of it.

                                I hate watching commercials but if I want to watch television I have to put up with them. How dare they treat me that way! :p
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                                • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                                  Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

                                  I agree Tom, I don't think this particular argument is a case of ethics either, its just about whether you want to take the risk of royally piss your customers off.
                                  Actually, rather than customers they might be missed customers -- because we know as marketers that generally speaking people don't say anything when they get annoyed during the sales process, they just quietly go away and never come back.

                                  Lack of complaints doesn't mean lack of lost conversions.

                                  And yes, I don't the exit pop-up debate this as a case of ethics, either. I don't consider them unethical.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                                    Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                                    Actually, rather than customers they might be missed customers -- because we know as marketers that generally speaking people don't say anything when they get annoyed during the sales process, they just quietly go away and never come back.

                                    Lack of complaints doesn't mean lack of lost conversions.

                                    And yes, I don't the exit pop-up debate this as a case of ethics, either. I don't consider them unethical.

                                    I agree that testing both ways should be done if you are planning on using them. You could lose customers or even lose more longer term customers.

                                    Personally, they don't bother me too much unless there are 20 of them. Now that does make you feel like a hostage. haha
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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                I don't like them either but still shop at those stores.
                                Yeah, but if you go back to my analogy, you'll see an important distinction. No electronics store rep has blocked the door to the parking lot and prevented me from leaving before they tried to push an extended warranty on me.

                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                I hate watching commercials but if I want to watch television I have to put up with them. How dare they treat me that way!
                                I don't watch many commercials any longer. I have a DVR.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                                  Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                                  Yeah, but if you go back to my analogy, you'll see an important distinction. No electronics store rep has blocked the door to the parking lot and prevented me from leaving before they tried to push an extended warranty on me.
                                  They won't let me check out until I say no to the opening up a credit car, purchasing an extended warranty. I just want to check out and not be bothered, so in a way, yes, they are preventing me from leaving.

                                  I don't watch many commercials any longer. I have a DVR.
                                  If everyone did that then no more free television.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
                                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                    They won't let me check out until I say no to the opening up a credit car, purchasing an extended warranty. I just want to check out and not be bothered, so in a way, yes, they are preventing me from leaving.
                                    Not me. If I were to get that annoyed with the clerk I'd just walk out without completing the transaction. Standing in my way and blocking the door, however (like an exit pop-up) is a whole different story.

                                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                    If everyone did that then no more free television.
                                    TV is free? I pay for my TV programming, so if everyone were to have DVR's that would be with me.
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                              • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                From my experience, most people won't like like offer, product, sales page, videos, domain name, photo of me (hard to believe ), or whatever.
                                If you don't take down your avatar, I'm going to strongly consider boycotting this forum!


                                I never understood how some people can make these types of things an ethical argument. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves but still don't see the ethics side of it.
                                That's because it's a nonmoral issue, just like reading a book during a long subway ride, brushing one's teeth in the morning, and picking vanilla over chocolate.

                                You are not morally bound to do these things, but you can if you want, and it wouldn't be morally right or morally wrong either way.

                                And in this example, you have the choice to run your business in one way or another. One way pleases more people, but prevents others from receiving value, and does not increase conversions. The other makes certain people unhappy, but adds value to others, and does increase conversions (assuming proper use).

                                Either way is fine and there are no ethical issues involved.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                                  Originally Posted by CurtisN View Post

                                  If you don't take down your avatar, I'm going to strongly consider boycotting this forum!

                                  You're not the first to say that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

          Big mistake? Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

          If standing for what you believe in is a mistake, then I'll be wrong all day long. I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

          Period.

          That's a huge business mistake... Putting your personal beliefs and feelings into a business decision is the fastest way to sabotage your livelihood.

          Everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs but wow, a little overboard in my opinion.
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          • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
            Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

            That's a huge business mistake... Putting your personal beliefs and feelings into a business decision is the fastest way to sabotage your livelihood.

            Everyone is entitled to their opinion and beliefs but wow, a little overboard in my opinion.
            I read every response on this thread because I've been thinking about using an exit pop- and I think you're right... like everything else, you can can use it in a transparent, honest way... instead of the normal exit pop that says WAIT!!!! bsbsbsbsbsbsbsbs....

            They're proven to work... what else is there to talk about?
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          • Profile picture of the author MarthaD.
            I'm really glad this is working so well for you but I'm afraid I'm another one that hates pop-ups! I understand them, and know they probably work pretty good for a lot of marketers but they really annoy me - especially when you get the ones that never seem to quit, it's one after another after another. The more there are the more I can't wait to get off their site. The absolute worse offenders are the ones that no matter how many times you continue to say "OK" to leave you end up on a payment page as though you were agreeing to purchase!!!! UGHHHH!!!
            I think those are the most arrogant and sleezy of all.
            And while I'm on a rant, let me add one other big annoyance that seems to be appearing more and more recently - those damn videos that don't give you a time line!!!! You don't know if it's a 3 min. video or a 30 min. video. I listen for maybe the first 2-3 minutes and if they haven't captured my attention and there's no way of knowing how long it's going to be, I exit - knowing I'm going to spend the next few minutes anyway in trying to close out all their annoying exit pop-ups!
            I've promised myself that no matter how good someone tells me they are I will never use them and I will always show a time line on any video I make.
            Of course I haven't made any money yet either but... thems my rules and I'm sticking to them!!!
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            MarthaD.

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            • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
              Originally Posted by MarthaD. View Post

              I'm really glad this is working so well for you but I'm afraid I'm another one that hates pop-ups! I understand them, and know they probably work pretty good for a lot of marketers but they really annoy me - especially when you get the ones that never seem to quit, it's one after another after another. The more there are the more I can't wait to get off their site. The absolute worse offenders are the ones that no matter how many times you continue to say "OK" to leave you end up on a payment page as though you were agreeing to purchase!!!! UGHHHH!!!
              I think those are the most arrogant and sleezy of all.
              And while I'm on a rant, let me add one other big annoyance that seems to be appearing more and more recently - those damn videos that don't give you a time line!!!! You don't know if it's a 3 min. video or a 30 min. video. I listen for maybe the first 2-3 minutes and if they haven't captured my attention and there's no way of knowing how long it's going to be, I exit - knowing I'm going to spend the next few minutes anyway in trying to close out all their annoying exit pop-ups!
              I've promised myself that no matter how good someone tells me they are I will never use them and I will always show a time line on any video I make.
              Of course I haven't made any money yet either but... thems my rules and I'm sticking to them!!!
              Hi Martha

              I agree on both counts.

              My exit pop up only displays once. If the visitor wants to leave my site, they press one button and they can. Not 10 buttons.

              Plus I HATE videos with no timeline. It must work, but I can't imagine why.

              James
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              • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
                Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post


                Plus I HATE videos with no timeline. It must work, but I can't imagine why.
                A properly done video sales letter will pretty much force you to watch it in its entirety.

                Out of all the VSLs I've ever come across, I've only been compelled to watch one in its entirety, and it happened to be for Chris Haddad's VSL Workshop

                So, if the video is really well done, you won't even notice or care that the controls aren't there because you'll be glued to the screen.

                Too bad most people who use VSLs don't bother using them properly. And of course, this gives VSLs a bad rep.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
            Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

            That's a huge business mistake... Putting your personal beliefs and feelings into a business decision is the fastest way to sabotage your livelihood.
            I do my best to build my business on practices that I would want as a consumer. The best way to understand my customers is to put myself in their shoes.

            But if it's true that my business decision is going to sabotage my business, then maybe I'd better shut it down and tell the staff next month's product launch is off.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
          Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

          Sorry, I won't compromise my principles -- that's an important stance that believe, and something I teach each of my mentoring students.

          I won't buy from a page that uses them, and I absolutely WILL NOT use a disruptive and intrusive technique aimed at derailing a person's wish to go to another site.

          Period.
          I see the principles part, yes. However, I agree with Dan Kennedy: "When marketing, if you're not pissing off a certain % of your audience, you're doing something wrong." Of course, one wouldn't want to piss people off just for the sake of it -- but that's not Dan's point. Effective marketing does tend towards intrusiveness of one kind or another.

          As long as the backlash isn't too severe, if the numbers say "go," then I'd go.

          What if the #'s said a headline you HATED pulled 29x better -- should you use it?

          Of course!

          Here's an analogy: Why is telemarketing a $$-multi-billion industry (read: sells billions in products + services), EVEN THOUGH "everyone hates it" and "no one buys that way."

          The numbers are the numbers. Use them to your advantage, I say!

          How many copies of The National Enquirer get sold on supermarket checkout lines -- even though "no one" buys that "obviously absurd" newspaper!

          So, perhaps the visitors don't mind the intrusiveness as much as you assume they do. Just a thought.

          Cheers.

          -- TW
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Good success. Personally, I won't use them under any circumstances.
      Thank you, seriously.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    Exit pops can be effective but their also a bit tacky...

    Personally I will use them, but instead of trying to capture an email or offer a discount right off the bat, I'll ask a simple 1-3 question survey on why the user is leaving the page or why the didn't subscribe/buy and than maybe offer them something in return (with or without an opt-in).
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  • Profile picture of the author rcritchett
    Awesome job man!

    Unfortunately, I totally hate any kind of pop up opt ins, whether it's entrance or exit.

    It's simply a way of interrupting users. Yea, you can benefit from that, if you're ok with taking away from quality.

    NOTE
    That's just my opinion. Take your own word for it!

    At any rate, good job man, wish you the best in your endeavors! Thanks for letting give my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by rcritchett View Post

      Unfortunately, I totally hate any kind of pop up opt ins, whether it's entrance or exit.

      It's simply a way of interrupting users. Yea, you can benefit from that, if you're ok with taking away from quality.
      Yep. I could benefit from installing rogue affiliate code re-writing software on the PC's of people who visit my site... but right is right and wrong is wrong. I say if you do a better job of selling your product/service you don't need to resort to annoying and disruptive techniques to get your pages to convert better.

      But I'm kind of old fashioned, I believe in building positive relationships rather than the "churn and burn" attitude that is so common among a lot of IMers.
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      • Profile picture of the author ValWu
        I don't know....

        For me, it's just a habit that I X it out any pop up. Can't recall when it's the last time I put in my email in a pop up optin form.
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by ValWu View Post

          I don't know....

          For me, it's just a habit that I X it out any pop up. Can't recall when it's the last time I put in my email in a pop up optin form.
          Yes, but you are all Internet Marketers at the end of the day. You are seeing tons of these things on a daily basis.

          The average Joe Smith visiting a Dog website who sees a popup for a free report is not going to have the same feeling towards that popup as those of you who are closing these popups all day long.

          Don't build the web site to suit you - it's a big mistake. Your views are tainted.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
        Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

        Yep. I could benefit from installing rogue affiliate code re-writing software on the PC's of people who visit my site... but right is right and wrong is wrong. I say if you do a better job of selling your product/service you don't need to resort to annoying and disruptive techniques to get your pages to convert better.

        But I'm kind of old fashioned, I believe in building positive relationships rather than the "churn and burn" attitude that is so common among a lot of IMers.
        Hey Steven,

        I agree with you on the churn and burn but I don't see how popups used legit (we all hate the 10 popup messages on CB launches...ughh).

        But let me give you an example where exit pops can be not only beneficial to the vendor but also to a visitor.

        Let's say that someone visits your product and says.."hey I can't do this right now..." and leaves the page. If you hit them with an effective exit pop that says something like

        "Hey sorry to see you go...I'd like to give you a free report showing you how to solve 'insert small problem in niche' absolutely free..."

        And do this in a respectful way...how is that not helping the reader?

        I'm a VERY VERY principled person (Eagle Scout here...A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly , courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent..my moral code and biz principles summed up) but I don't see how principles on specific tactics like "do or do not use exit pops" are relevant instead of things like "I won't be deceitful and try to send them through 10 hoops to leave."

        I think it's the implementation rather than the tool that is the "unprincipled" component here.

        That's just my opinion and with all due respect, I must disagree with you.

        Cheers,

        Brad
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  • Profile picture of the author mlord10
    Awesome work James!

    Whether it be a plugin, script, or something else there are soooo many golden nuggets that can make this whole internet marketing profession a lot easier and more rewarding!
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I use an exit popup on most of my blogs. I don't see the problem as long as the following is adhered to.

    1. The visitor will only see this popup the first and maybe second time they visit the blog. After that they will never see it again - that is unless they delete their cookies but that can't be helped.

    2. I do not try to sell anything through the popup. All I offer them is a chance to be updated on further blog posts and the like. This is an obvious offer to make them when leaving the blog.

    3. This is just a regular popup that is triggered when they move the mouse out of the main window - ie, they are about to leave the page. They can still close the window or type in another web address without having to click on 'Ok' or 'Cancel'. I don't agree with using those popups where a user HAS to choose something just to leave your page - that is wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      2. I do not try to sell anything through the popup. All I offer them is a chance to be updated on further blog posts and the like. This is an obvious offer to make them when leaving the blog.
      Will,

      do you have them sign up to your list or your blog's RSS feed?

      Thanks,
      Merlyn
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McAleer
    That is great. I do notice that when I am on sites that have email optin pop ups I will sign up half of the time if I think the freebie/offer is interesting
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
    I knew this would divide opinion.

    But if you do it right, and you offer a quality freebie or survey instead of a discount, then it can actually benefit your visitor.

    It's a good way to capture more subscribers from people who weren't going to buy your product.

    About 7% of people who try to leave my salespage are now becoming subscribers and I've yet to have a complaint.

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Nothing wrong with exit pop ups as long as they are used correctly, IMHO anyway. At the end of the day its all a matter of taste, if you don't like them well thats ok, and if you do, then that's ok as well :rolleyes:

    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    I've been on the net for what seems like hundreds of years now and there is one thing I can tell you from direct experience...

    The things that convert the best are the very things that are most hated...

    I've put up ads that I thought at first were a failure, changed tactics and made the ad obnoxious and in your face and it sold like crazy, even though many people bitched about it.

    Your experience may differ, I can only tell you what I've seen again and again over the years. I don't particularly like pop ups myself but I have used them on here before and will in the future.

    Edit: I'm talking about basic pop ups here, not exit pop ups. I'd rather get them coming in while they have some interest, not going out. I prefer to let them leave if that is their choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulie888
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I've been on the net for what seems like hundreds of years now and there is one thing I can tell you from direct experience...

      The things that convert the best are the very things that are most hated...

      I've put up ads that I thought at first were a failure, changed tactics and made the ad obnoxious and in your face and it sold like crazy, even though many people bitched about it.

      Your experience may differ, I can only tell you what I've seen again and again over the years. I don't particularly like pop ups myself but I have used them on here before and will in the future.

      Edit: I'm talking about basic pop ups here, not exit pop ups. I'd rather get them coming in while they have some interest, no going out. I prefer to let them leave if that is their choice.
      Thanks for jumping in, Allen. Controversy and standing out (sometimes not in a good way) typically tend to increase conversions. Being polarizing and different almost always does, as opposed to being the anodyne and anonymous figure that doesn't arouse any passion or emotion.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by admin View Post

      I've been on the net for what seems like hundreds of years now and there is one thing I can tell you from direct experience...

      The things that convert the best are the very things that are most hated...

      I've put up ads that I thought at first were a failure, changed tactics and made the ad obnoxious and in your face and it sold like crazy, even though many people bitched about it.

      Your experience may differ, I can only tell you what I've seen again and again over the years. I don't particularly like pop ups myself but I have used them on here before and will in the future.

      Edit: I'm talking about basic pop ups here, not exit pop ups. I'd rather get them coming in while they have some interest, no going out. I prefer to let them leave if that is their choice.
      Nice tip on the type of popup you use and why. Much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author BenSalez
    Can you point me in the direction of the script?

    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

    Hi Warriors

    Today I did something that I've been meaning to do for a while, but was either too lazy to do it, or was worried I didn't have the technical ability to implement it.

    All I did today was:

    1. Pay $67 for a popular exit pop up script

    2. Watched a 15 minute instructional video

    3. Spent about two minutes inserting the code

    4. Spent one minute uploading the new page

    5. Went to the pub

    6. Came back later a bit worse for wear but with 100 brand new subscribers to a brand new email list that I set up specifically for this experiment.

    Those 100 brand new subscribers have come from about 1,000 visits to my salespage.

    I have another site that has had 277,000 visits over the last 18 months (although some have been junk traffic). If I'd had an exit pop up that converted the same amount, I'd have an extra 27,000 subscribers.

    What a missed opportunity!

    Are any other Warriors using exit pop ups effectively? Or any other strategies that you wish you had implemented earlier?

    James
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    • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
      Originally Posted by BenSalez View Post

      Can you point me in the direction of the script?
      Just a guess, but I think it's:

      Dave Guindon's Exit Splash | Exit Page Software | Increase Sales

      Edit: Ah, James beat me to it

      Also, I totally understand the point Allen made about letting people leave if they want to. If you feel that strongly about it and maintain that position even knowing how beneficial an exit pop-up might be to your business, then I would have no problem with it.

      I guess my beef is with people who say they hate them, and therefore will not use them, all the while not understanding the value of pop-ups (exit, or otherwise).

      Ultimately though, it's a personal choice, and I don't want to be going around trying to force my views on others. I'm not a huge fan of pop-ups either, but I wouldn't completely rule out using them simply because I'm not in love with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimotman
    me too, personally, hate popup whether it's entry or exit popup.. but if it can have better results, why not? I may want to try it now
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  • Profile picture of the author askmrgramson
    Can you point me to a good site to access pop up scripts?
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
    I used Exit Splash from Dave Guindon.
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  • Profile picture of the author RossChops
    If I was about to leave a website without buying anything then that would be because that website didn't offer me anything of value. Instead of offering a freebie on exit, why dont you just offer it as a matter of course on your website.

    Having said that i am really thinking about trying a popup myself just as an experiment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    The one thing people have to understand... You personally hating something should not even be in the equation. You're not in business to give yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling, you're in business to make money.

    Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered. The only thing that should be considered is:

    1) Is it legal
    2) Is it working

    That's it...
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    • Profile picture of the author MarthaD.
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      The one thing people have to understand... You personally hating something should not even be in the equation. You're not in business to give yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling, you're in business to make money.

      Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered. The only thing that should be considered is:

      1) Is it legal
      2) Is it working

      That's it...

      Legal and working? That's it?? How about worthwhile and respecting your potential customer?
      I was in sales for years and there were plenty of times I could have made a legal and workable sale but I wasn't able to cope with using some of the sleezy tactics I watched others do - pop-ups may be legal and they may work and I'm aware that a business doesn't always have to be selling what "they" like but what their customer may like - but that's not the "only" way to have a successful business. If it were and I could stomach it, I could probably be one hell of great, but sleezy, saleswoman.
      Sorry but I think in this case, you CAN have it both ways! I could never sell or use tactics that I didn't like myself, regardless of their legality or workability.
      I was successful enough treating others as I wanted to be treated and I hope to reach that level of success again in the same manner.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
        Originally Posted by MarthaD. View Post

        Legal and working? That's it?? How about worthwhile and respecting your potential customer?
        I was in sales for years and there were plenty of times I could have made a legal and workable sale but I wasn't able to cope with using some of the sleezy tactics I watched others do - pop-ups may be legal and they may work and I'm aware that a business doesn't always have to be selling what "they" like but what their customer may like - but that's not the "only" way to have a successful business. If it were and I could stomach it, I could probably be one hell of great, but sleezy, saleswoman.
        Sorry but I think in this case, you CAN have it both ways! I could never sell or use tactics that I didn't like myself, regardless of their legality or workability.
        I was successful enough treating others as I wanted to be treated and I hope to reach that level of success again in the same manner.
        If it's legal and working then I'm sure it will be respectful. Don't make it harder than it has to be...

        There are winners and their are losers ... You can still be respectful and employ what works.
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      • Profile picture of the author immeanyway
        Originally Posted by MarthaD. View Post

        Legal and working? That's it?? How about worthwhile and respecting your potential customer?
        I was in sales for years and there were plenty of times I could have made a legal and workable sale but I wasn't able to cope with using some of the sleezy tactics I watched others do - pop-ups may be legal and they may work and I'm aware that a business doesn't always have to be selling what "they" like but what their customer may like - but that's not the "only" way to have a successful business. If it were and I could stomach it, I could probably be one hell of great, but sleezy, saleswoman.
        Sorry but I think in this case, you CAN have it both ways! I could never sell or use tactics that I didn't like myself, regardless of their legality or workability.
        I was successful enough treating others as I wanted to be treated and I hope to reach that level of success again in the same manner.

        I agree with you. I think our reputation as an industry is also an important consideration. After all, some professions have a bad reputation for a reason. There is a lot to be said for being ethical and having a customer who is happy with the way they have been treated. Personally, I get annoyed at pop-ups and being asked 2 or 3 times if I'm sure I want to leave a website. I would be unlikely to buy from such a website. If someone opts in just because of the annoyance factor are they likely to spend any money
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered. The only thing that should be considered is:

      1) Is it legal
      2) Is it working
      I can't appreciate this line of thinking. For instance, I can auto-spin one article into 10,000 of them and auto-post them to hundreds of article sites.

      It's legal.
      It works.

      It may be okay for some people, but it isn't for me.

      I can set up a new Web site, pay for junk traffic, post that site and stats showing 500,000 visitors over the past 90 days, and sell the site on Flippa.

      It's legal.
      It works.

      It may be okay for some people, but it isn't for me.

      I can set up a hosting company and advertise unlimited storage and unlimited bandwidth. Neither of those things currently exist on this planet.

      It's legal.
      It works.

      It may be okay for some people, but it isn't for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      You're not in business to give yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling, you're in business to make money.
      Don't tell ME what I'm in business - or not in business - for.

      Maybe you and many other people are not in business to give
      yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling and that's your choice.

      But I am in business for how it makes me - and others - feel.

      I'm in business to make money too and it's possible to have
      both. It's not an either/or situation.

      I create my businesses based upon passion and soul.

      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered.
      I'm the one in charge of MY business and I'm the one who
      decides if a tactic is suitable for me, my business and my
      customers.

      I don't just use something because 'it works'

      I pass it through my value system first and decide if
      I would like to use a particular tactic and if I want my
      visitors to be exposed to the method.

      For example, as long as I've got a hole in my arse, I'll
      NEVER use multiple exit pops with banal scripts like
      Exit Splash (aka Dick Splash). Nor will I force my
      customers through multiple upsell hell.

      One exit pop or upsell may be OK in certain situations but
      I won't just use a tactic just that supposedly works (based
      upon short-term conversion stats).

      There's more to it than that for me. It's not so black and
      white.

      Each to their own.

      I treat my prospects and customers as I'd like to be treated
      and don't give two flying fecks if that means lower conversions
      in the short-term.

      I run a principle-led business rather than just a profit-led
      business.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      .

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      • Profile picture of the author Sandor Benko
        Reading through all the different angles is interesting. I never had much success with exit popups - got a handful of leads this way but nothing big.
        I get annoyed too when there's more than 1 exit popup.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by Sandor Benko View Post

          Reading through all the different angles is interesting. I never had much success with exit popups - got a handful of leads this way but nothing big.
          I get annoyed too when there's more than 1 exit popup.
          This is certainly a hot-button topic, and it seems like the discussion is starting to get really heated here. I agree that having more than one exit popup is probably the easiest way to annoy potential customers and lose sales, but beyond that, if your intention is solely to maximize profitability, then split-testing will ultimately reveal which approach works better with your site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        I treat my prospects and customers as I'd like to be treated and don't give two flying fecks if that means lower conversions in the short-term.
        That's really the way I feel about it, Shaun. If I had to run my business in a way that didn't make me happy because I was fretting over the short-term conversion rate, then I'd just shut it down.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        Don't tell ME what I'm in business - or not in business - for.

        Maybe you and many other people are not in business to give
        yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling and that's your choice.

        But I am in business for how it makes me - and others - feel.

        I'm in business to make money too and it's possible to have
        both. It's not an either/or situation.

        I create my businesses based upon passion and soul.


        I'm the one in charge of MY business and I'm the one who
        decides if a tactic is suitable for me, my business and my
        customers.

        I don't just use something because 'it works'

        I pass it through my value system first and decide if
        I would like to use a particular tactic and if I want my
        visitors to be exposed to the method.

        For example, as long as I've got a hole in my arse, I'll
        NEVER use multiple exit pops with banal scripts like
        Exit Splash (aka Dick Splash). Nor will I force my
        customers through multiple upsell hell.

        One exit pop or upsell may be OK in certain situations but
        I won't just use a tactic just that supposedly works (based
        upon short-term conversion stats).

        There's more to it than that for me. It's not so black and
        white.

        Each to their own.

        I treat my prospects and customers as I'd like to be treated
        and don't give two flying fecks if that means lower conversions
        in the short-term.

        I run a principle-led business rather than just a profit-led
        business.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
        I think Mike's just trying to help you dude.

        He's a HEAVY HITTER telling you, "This is what's going to make you the most money."

        Arguing with you isn't worth his time and energy probably... so just see the advice for the good-natured it's intended to be and take it or leave it.

        It's rare to have a few of these guys taking the time to post on Warrior Forum so try not to scare them off lol...

        I don't know Mike, but I know he's seen tens of millions of visitors to his websites during a single day.

        Guys like him come out of their hole to help people in here and get shot down, then go back into the shadows... so just please take it for what it is... a well-meaning gesture. We're all here to help one another.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          I think Mike's just trying to help you dude.
          I think Shaun was perfectly right to react the way he did. It is pretty insulting and completely inappropriate to presume to tell another person what THAT PERSON is in business for.
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

            I think Shaun was perfectly right to react the way he did. It is pretty insulting and completely inappropriate to presume to tell another person what THAT PERSON is in business for.
            Fair enough friend.

            All I'm saying is guys like Mike drop in here every once in a while to teach you how to make the most money and they have no other reason than trying to help you, so try not to shoot them down. They want to see you succeed and are just lending a hand out of the goodness of their hearts. That's all I'm saying.

            Let's not argue. Let's make money.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
              Banned
              Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

              Fair enough friend.

              All I'm saying is guys like Mike drop in here every once in a while to teach you how to make the most money and they have no other reason than trying to help you, so try not to shoot them down. They want to see you succeed and are just lending a hand out of the goodness of their hearts. That's all I'm saying.

              Let's not argue. Let's make money.
              You sure you got the correct Mike?

              I don't think it is the same Mike Hill who created CPA Tsunami.
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              • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                You sure you got the correct Mike?

                I don't think it is the same Mike Hill who created CPA Tsunami.
                ha... ya good point. Might be the other Mike Hill. Didn't think of that (sorry if you're the other Mike). He has no sig, so I guess I don't know.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
              Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

              All I'm saying is guys like Mike drop in here every once in a while to teach you how to make the most money and they have no other reason than trying to help you, so try not to shoot them down.
              I so badly wanted to respond to all the things that are wrong with this post, but I think I'd better be quiet now.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

                I so badly wanted to respond to all the things that are wrong with this post, but I think I'd better be quiet now.
                I better increase my traffic so you have to be nice to me. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I personally do not use pop ups.

        Having said that, at the end of the day, what each person does with their
        business is perfectly fine as long as the tactic is legal and ethical.

        I can make laundry list of things that many IMers hate. If we didn't do any
        of these, we'd end up with no means of marketing.

        Trust me on that. There is no one form of marketing that everybody loves.

        Hell, take something as simple as video sales pages with no video controls
        to stop the video.

        Know how many people TOTALLY DESPISE THEM?

        But until you use them and judge their effectiveness for closing the
        sale or whatever it is that page is trying to do, all it is, is YOUR opinion.

        And in the grand scheme of things, if that tactic is making the business
        owner 10K or month or more and it's something that they can honestly
        say is legal and ethical, then YOUR opinion is just that and irrelevant to
        THAT person's business.

        Don't want to use the tactic? No problem. But please understand that
        trying to make somebody feel like a scum bucket because they DO use
        it is plain wrong.

        Comments like, "Well, if you have respect for your prospects" have no
        place here when talking about legal and ethical means of marketing because
        as I said...name something, anything, and there is somebody out there
        who hates it.

        Something to think about before you start throwing stones at people.

        My 2 cents on the subject...for whatever they're worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
          Well said Steve

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I personally do not use pop ups.

          Having said that, at the end of the day, what each person does with their
          business is perfectly fine as long as the tactic is legal and ethical.

          I can make laundry list of things that many IMers hate. If we didn't do any
          of these, we'd end up with no means of marketing.

          Trust me on that. There is no one form of marketing that everybody loves.

          Hell, take something as simple as video sales pages with no video controls
          to stop the video.

          Know how many people TOTALLY DESPISE THEM?

          But until you use them and judge their effectiveness for closing the
          sale or whatever it is that page is trying to do, all it is, is YOUR opinion.

          And in the grand scheme of things, if that tactic is making the business
          owner 10K or month or more and it's something that they can honestly
          say is legal and ethical, then YOUR opinion is just that and irrelevant to
          THAT person's business.

          Don't want to use the tactic? No problem. But please understand that
          trying to make somebody feel like a scum bucket because they DO use
          it is plain wrong.

          Comments like, "Well, if you have respect for your prospects" have no
          place here when talking about legal and ethical means of marketing because
          as I said...name something, anything, and there is somebody out there
          who hates it.

          Something to think about before you start throwing stones at people.

          My 2 cents on the subject...for whatever they're worth.
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        • Profile picture of the author paulie888
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I personally do not use pop ups.

          Having said that, at the end of the day, what each person does with their
          business is perfectly fine as long as the tactic is legal and ethical.

          I can make laundry list of things that many IMers hate. If we didn't do any
          of these, we'd end up with no means of marketing.

          Trust me on that. There is no one form of marketing that everybody loves.

          Hell, take something as simple as video sales pages with no video controls
          to stop the video.

          Know how many people TOTALLY DESPISE THEM?

          But until you use them and judge their effectiveness for closing the
          sale or whatever it is that page is trying to do, all it is, is YOUR opinion.

          And in the grand scheme of things, if that tactic is making the business
          owner 10K or month or more and it's something that they can honestly
          say is legal and ethical, then YOUR opinion is just that and irrelevant to
          THAT person's business.

          Don't want to use the tactic? No problem. But please understand that
          trying to make somebody feel like a scum bucket because they DO use
          it is plain wrong.

          Comments like, "Well, if you have respect for your prospects" have no
          place here when talking about legal and ethical means of marketing because
          as I said...name something, anything, and there is somebody out there
          who hates it.

          Something to think about before you start throwing stones at people.

          My 2 cents on the subject...for whatever they're worth.
          Steven, I couldn't agree more. We all have differences in opinion when it comes to what we do in our internet marketing, but it's best just to agree to disagree especially when it comes to contentious issues like this, and not resort to disparaging one another.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      The one thing people have to understand... You personally hating something should not even be in the equation. You're not in business to give yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling, you're in business to make money.

      Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered. The only thing that should be considered is:

      1) Is it legal
      2) Is it working

      That's it...
      Thanks for the insights.

      I used to think exactly like that (and maybe I should start too again haha)... then again, there are some things I've found --in the CPA world especially-- that are totally legal but make my stomach turn so I won't do them.

      But you're absolutely right I think... the easiest way to make money is to just do what works. To pay attention to the numbers, not your opinions or other people's opinions.

      The people I know who make the most money are blind to everything except what the numbers say.
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    • Profile picture of the author Laura B
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      The one thing people have to understand... You personally hating something should not even be in the equation. You're not in business to give yourself a warm and fuzzy feeling, you're in business to make money.

      Your opinion about a marketing tactic as a business owner should never be considered. The only thing that should be considered is:

      1) Is it legal
      2) Is it working

      That's it...
      I have to respectfully disagree. If those are the only issues you choose to consider, I have no problem with that. But for others of us, there are more criteria. I don't think a business should be run on emotions, but personal ethics and feelings have their place. Allowing them to be part of the decision does not automatically equal bad business.
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  • Profile picture of the author emjo
    It's funny how the IM techniques that most annoy me seem to work.
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  • Profile picture of the author floydjr32
    I have gained 100 new subscribers in 7 days making youtube videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrea Wilson
    I agree that such exit pop-ups are annoying but entrance pop-ups are worst. I can say that this exit pop-ups are really good in getting emails from my visitors because it does catch attention than the right hand widget in a simple wordpress blog of course.

    Andrea
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Andrea Wilson View Post

      I agree that such exit pop-ups are annoying but entrance pop-ups are worst. I can say that this exit pop-ups are really good in getting emails from my visitors because it does catch attention than the right hand widget in a simple wordpress blog of course.

      Andrea
      A method that I like better is the slide up footer. It seems to do a great job capturing e-mail addresses, but doesn't pop and doesn't prevent the user from clicking off your site and forcing them to go through another click just to move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author lesterlim85
    Hi guys

    I have not used exit pop-ups before and might consider using it in the future to see how great a conversion it will bring, but only a one-time pop-up that is. I get extremely annoyed when I try to exit a page, and encounter multiple exit pop ups urging me to stay and tell me how much I will miss if I leave.

    However, I kind of fancy the idea of slide up footer because in my opinion, it is more "friendly" and is giving you a friendly reminder, urging you to sign up before you leave instead of stopping you from leaving when you seriously want to leave. People who sign up with the slide up footer might be better prospects than the ones gotten from exit pop-up I guess? Just my 2 cents. It has been really useful reading the posts here so far.

    Case in point is, I do not object to using exit pop-up because I think it helps in conversion but I just want to use it in an "ethical way" if I were to use it one day.

    May i just sidetrack a little? What do you guys think of direct linking a prospect to an affiliate product, right after they have signed up to your free report and will soon be receiving your autoresponder sequence? I have forgotten which report I have read about this example from, but this case study shows that by doing this, sales actually occur and some people became immediate buyers even before being pre-sold by your autoresponder sequence.

    Best of all, they are also on your list now and you can continue to pre-sell them on other affiliate products. Of course, the idea is you must be providing value to them via free reports and valuable tips as well. I have gotten this free report from a fellow warrior here but I can't recall who he is.

    I'm not sure how effective this can be, but if I am the prospect I will not be really happy about it. What do you guys think?

    Cheers,
    Lester
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    Here are some more facts:
    -many people hate upsells (all of them), but it would be stupid to NEVER use them
    Sorry, the first part may be a fact but the second part is an opinion. It is also offensive but at the same time almost comical that you would call me and others "stupid."

    I have never used an exit pop-up or an upsell with any of my sites or with any of my niches. Am I stupid? Am I losing sales or capturing fewer emails? Are you making more money than me per visitor? Are you capturing more email addresses? None of the pop-up preachers can say for a fact one way or the other because they have not tested on any of my sites.

    All the claimed stats I ever see are only immediate calculations. I never see long-term data since it is almost impossible to tabulate. There can be two marketers using completely different methods. Short term analisys might tell you something but what if these two methods were tested for five years? What if they were tested in a hundred different niches. I just can't believe when people get so adamant about such subjective things. My favorite is the marketer with lots of "scientific stats" that is selling pop-up script.

    I know right now there are a lot of marketers that only care about numbers. Their only goal is to have conversions higher than refunds and they don't care how they get them. That is fine for those that want to operate that way.

    I told a car salesman "no" one time and he literally kept following me and trying over and over to get a sale. Until I actually got in and closed the door he did not stop. That tactic must work because some are apparently trained to do that. He might even be the best salesman at the dealership. Sorry but I could not do that. There are more important things to me than "the bottom line." My mother-in-law over the decades bought 4 new cars from the same salesman. She always went right back to him because he did not push her.

    Did he ever have the most sales in a day or in a month? Probably not. I do know he was a happy man that had a good career for many, many years. He was well respected and liked by many people in three adjoining cities. Could he have made a lot more money with some obnoxious tactics? maybe so. He made a choice to be different and I for one think he made the right choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      Sorry, the first part may be a fact but the second part is an opinion. It is also offensive but at the same time almost comical that you would call me and others "stupid."
      Yes sorry, poor choice of words on my part.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

    Are any other Warriors using exit pop ups effectively? Or any other strategies that you wish you had implemented earlier?

    James
    Here's an exit strategy I used that has worked well for me...

    When the visitor closes the page without opting-in, an exit splash or exit pop-up comes out saying that they can download the first half of the report or e-book you're giving away for free.

    It's important to note that "No Email is Required." They can simply download it immediately without having to give out their email.

    In the report and download page itself, put a note that says if they want the second half of the report, e-book or whatever (and more if possible), they need to subscribe on your squeeze page.

    That's it. Most people who downloaded the first half of the report would want to finish reading it. It's the Zeigarnik effect in action (just do a Google search if you're not aware of it).

    Check out how I did it with my site:
    Achieve Your Dreams | Best Free Self-Help Ebooks and Products
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
    From the angle of someone who is not an IMer, if you ever throw a popup at me, whether it be on arrival or exit, I will never visit your site again.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesPenn
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    Hi James,

    This sales page you are running the exit pop on - are affiliates driving traffic to it?

    If so, how are they reacting to the popup? They should be with glee but affiliates (or anyone for that matter) don't always know what's good for them.
    Hi Chris

    Yes, most traffic is from affiliates.

    No complaints from them so far. I reckon they'll be pleased that I'll convert some of those that never planned on buying into commissions for them.

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Originally Posted by JamesPenn View Post

    Hi Warriors

    Today I did something that I've been meaning to do for a while, but was either too lazy to do it, or was worried I didn't have the technical ability to implement it.

    All I did today was:

    1. Pay $67 for a popular exit pop up script

    2. Watched a 15 minute instructional video

    3. Spent about two minutes inserting the code

    4. Spent one minute uploading the new page

    5. Went to the pub

    6. Came back later a bit worse for wear but with 100 brand new subscribers to a brand new email list that I set up specifically for this experiment.

    Those 100 brand new subscribers have come from about 1,000 visits to my salespage.

    I have another site that has had 277,000 visits over the last 18 months (although some have been junk traffic). If I'd had an exit pop up that converted the same amount, I'd have an extra 27,000 subscribers.

    What a missed opportunity!

    Are any other Warriors using exit pop ups effectively? Or any other strategies that you wish you had implemented earlier?

    James
    Yeah James, that sounds exactly accurate to me too. When I put an exit pop-up on a sales page that leads to a squeeze, I get 10% opt-in or so from it.

    I had to kick myself before too when I figured out how much money I left on the table!

    Now think about what other integrations you're not using that are leaving heapings of cash on the table It can drive you crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
    I applaud people for their success using popups, shock advertising, and whatever other tactics they choose to employ.

    And I admire people who refuse to stoop to what they see as shady and inappropriate levels of manipulation and intrusiveness to acquire a sale.

    What I neither applaud nor admire is when members of the first group resort to telling members of the second that they are being "stupid," or "foolish," or are "losers."

    It's inappropriate. And moreover, it's not by any means necessarily correct.


    True story:

    I was working on copy for a seed catalogue a number of years ago. And the head decision-making honcho, against the wishes of his somewhat more reserved partners, agreed with me to make a switch to a richer, folksier, J. Peterman style copy. For both the catalogue, and the promotional materials.

    It made sense to us both, based on both the nature of their product (organic, heirloom seeds), and the nature of the sales material (photo-heavy, magazine style annual catalogue).

    The partners said they had done split testing in previous years' rollouts, with a one page catalogue-request letter done in two different styles. And the more hype-y, beat-you-over-the-head style copy had converted some percentage better.

    The numbers were the numbers, and the honcho would be foolish to ignore them.

    Despite that, the honcho agreed to take a year, and give the new way a try. He, himself, had been on multiple mailing lists...including the J. Peterman catalogue itself...and he believed in the power of that voice and style. He wanted to create something people *enjoyed* receiving.

    What happened?

    New promo materials went out. And sure enough...catalogue requests went down. Just like the partners said. In terms of % of letters converted to actual catalogue-owning customers, it was a definite downturn.

    But a funny thing happened during the catalogue's sales season.

    Even though there were fewer buyers, the buyers that DID materialize became repeat customers in record numbers. There was an all-time high in unprompted catalogue renewal requests. And there came a flood of requests completely unsolicited, from people who had heard the gospel through word of mouth.


    Point is, ignoring the numbers turned out to be the most profitable thing they could possibly do. Knowing the demographic, treating them as human beings, and giving them something they couldn't get from the forced and brutal sales process they found everywhere else proved to create goodwill and buzz that went far beyond the simple first-iteration gatekeeping numbers.

    So don't lay into people who are committed to doing things the way they, themselves would prefer to be treated. There's more to this game of marketing than there appears to be at first blush. It can be about more than raw conversion data...and that "more" doesn't even necessarily have to do with the ethics of the thing. That "more" can also affect the bottom line once you get past the initial data.

    There's more than one way to skin the capitalist cat.
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  • Profile picture of the author iw433
    I don't care for pop-ups, but hey if they work.............use 'em.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigjara
    I also hate pop ups, so it would be a difficult chose for me to use them or not. However, if i feel that the monetary value will out weigh my ethics, then it just might be something that I would do.
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  • Profile picture of the author daddykool
    Cool, there seems to be a mix of opinions as to "do popups work" and if so "are they ethical" we use a smooth footer slider on some sites as opposed to a "popup" and works very well, still have the issue with a few mickey mouse emails entered, but solve that by verifying the emails entered on the fly, so the optins collected are pretty genuine and are most of the time intested in the acutal site they were on
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  • Profile picture of the author andreasnrb
    You guys that use various popups do you have double optins?
    I've seen some stats that the number of sign ups increase but they are not verified in the end. Basically people sign up to get rid of the pop up.
    Is this the same for exit popups?
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  • Profile picture of the author MarthaD.
    James, I hope you and others here understand - my post which I suppose turned into more of a rant, was not meant to offend or condemn you or anyone else. As I said, I am really happy for your success and wish you much more.
    I was only speaking of how I feel about this topic but... "to each his own" - whatever works, whatever you are comfortable with, go for it! It's for each to decide for themselves.
    Again, congratulations on your success!
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