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Spinning - why we are doing it wrong ?

by dotgirish
22 replies
Many of us spin article for building backlinks (because its good to get it indexed), but are we doing it right ? Isn't it a big footprint if we use one single spun article for a large campaign. Even I know people using same spun article for multiple campaigns which is even more dangerous. I was reading an article about this and few points which i noted for easy digestion is as follows.


What are the problems with current spinning methods? (doesn't mean everyone is doing this)
  • We are mostly spinning words so finally all the variations may end up in almost same number of words
  • We use same structre and layout so final version of all the articles from the seed would looks similar.
  • Article creation date seems to be almost the same with some seconds difference, many of the articles directories and web 2.0 have a posting date.
  • Same number of paragraphs, same layout, same structure , what a big footprint..
  • Anchor text placed in same location , say end of first paragraph
  • Same author name/ Pen name used
  • Number of boldings, images, h2 tags, tables remains same
I was wondering whether TBS or spinner chief or any such tool can take care of these and give a really unique article in terms of paragraph length, sentence length, image count , html structure and all or many of the above problems mentioned in near future.

Update: Many were showing concerns about my first line, so I modified the wording a bit ..
#spinning #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    Originally Posted by dotgirish View Post

    We all use spun article for building backlinks, but are we doing it right ?
    Since when has everyone been using spun articles for backlinks? What a huge and inaccurate generalisation.

    I certainly haven't, which is why I won't comment on the rest of your post.
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    • Profile picture of the author dotgirish
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      Since when has everyone been using spun articles for backlinks? What a huge and innacurate generalisation.

      I certainly haven't, which is why I won't comment on the rest of your post.

      Agreed , and made the changes in the OP accordingly. Would like to get more attention on the later part of the post...
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by dotgirish View Post

        Agreed , and made the changes in the OP accordingly.
        Unfortunately, however, what you changed it to, after others commented on it (appalling "netiquette", by the way, to let people comment and then amend your OP after they've done so, taking away the very sentence some of them have "quoted"!!) made no more sense.

        The point you're missing is that an unpsun article gets indexed exactly the same as a spun one does. Nobody (apart from possibly one or two schlemiels selling spinning software and services, and their brothers-in-law) is seriously alleging that spinning an article makes it somehow "more likely to be indexed" - this is just completely unfounded nonsense!
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        • Profile picture of the author dotgirish
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          The point you're missing is that an unpsun article gets indexed exactly the same as a spun one does. Nobody (apart from possibly one or two schlemiels selling spinning software and services, and their brothers-in-law) is seriously alleging that spinning an article makes it somehow "more likely to be indexed" - this is just completely unfounded nonsense!

          My experince don't allow me to believe so .. sorry .. meanwhile I am reading other posts made by you to understand your point about article syndication. (meanwhile wondering why google need to keep syndicated articles on its index ) I love to see others comment on this who do spinning articles for backlinks (not on main site) ..
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by jolarry View Post

            With a good spin you can change the structure and length of the text.
            You say that almost as if it's by definition of some intrinsic benefit to "change the structure and length"?!

            Originally Posted by dotgirish View Post

            I love to see others comment on this who do spinning articles for backlinks
            Ah, I see ... you want opinions only from people whose activities reveal them to have one specific perspective about this subject. Now I understand ...

            Meanwhile, for anyone else who might (it can only be hoped!) be a little more open-minded than that, I can suggest six items to read, which collectively offer both a great deal of insight into this subject and actually quite a wide variety of perspectives ...

            (i) This post explains the benefits of spinning;

            (ii) This post, and its links, explain how article directories really work and why they exist;

            (iii) The first half (or so) of this thread contains a good discussion of what you can gain from spinning articles;

            (iv) The advice on this subject given by so many people throughout most of this thread has been really helpful to many people here;

            (v) On the meaning and significance of "duplicate content", in this context, this little post from expert article marketer Anne Pottinger includes direct quotations from Google's WebMaster Central Blog on the subject (not easy to find a more authoritative source than that!);

            (vi) This little article is also a very useful and accurate explanation of the subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeraldNitram
    I remember one post from the SEO Moz blog which has an example of a spun title. It made me laugh because it was really out of this world. Some people are using spinners and think that whatever comes out would be the best possible content that one can use. That example I was talking about: Salt Lake City -> Sodium Body of Water Town.

    Oh, and I agree with Richard. Not ALL people use spun articles for their link building efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author tweettweet
    I would rather spend time and effort writing original articles. Yes, it will only take a few minutes to spin articles and voila! you already have an "article" that you can post on your site. But what happens to the grammar, content, and content? Sacrificed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by dotgirish View Post

    We all use spun article for building backlinks
    Apart from the growing minority of us who understand that the linkjuice value of any given backlink, on any given page of the web, has absolutely nothing to do with whether the content to which it's attached has been "spun". :rolleyes:

    Once you understand the difference between "duplicate content" and "syndicated content", and the difference between "original content" and "unique content", it becomes easy to appreciate that you don't need to use spun articles "for building backlinks", and that it doesn't actually help you in any way to spin them.

    Article Marketers - Lay the Duplicate Content Myth To Rest Once and For All | Internet Marketing and Publishing

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5068872

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6012592
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    • Profile picture of the author paulpower
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Apart from the growing minority of us who understand that the linkjuice value of any given backlink, on any given page of the web, has absolutely nothing to do with whether the content to which it's attached has been "spun". :rolleyes:

      Once you understand the difference between "duplicate content" and "syndicated content", and the difference between "original content" and "unique content", it becomes easy to appreciate that you don't need to use spun articles "for building backlinks", and that it doesn't actually help you in any way to spin them.

      Article Marketers - Lay the Duplicate Content Myth To Rest Once and For All | Internet Marketing and Publishing

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5068872

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6012592
      Sadly, too many marketers out there use spun articles and they really do not do you any good.

      Apart from the fact that most times the spun article has used sysnonyms on a word, and made the content unreadable, which Google then realises is "spun", and penalises the website, it also helps to devalue the power of article marketing.

      Concentrate on researching and writing your own articles, and you will soon see better quality backlinks, as the content you have created is being picked up by the correct people and shown on their sites (quality backlink).

      Just my thoughts.

      Paul.
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  • Profile picture of the author the goat
    If you are spinning, you are spamming, and eventually you will be penalized. If a human can't read it and won't benefit from it then you will not gain from it in the long term.
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    • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
      What people still spin content and use it to try to get backlinks? How very 2011
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    • Profile picture of the author dotgirish
      Originally Posted by the goat View Post

      If you are spinning, you are spamming, and eventually you will be penalized. If a human can't read it and won't benefit from it then you will not gain from it in the long term.

      THANKYOU ...
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    • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
      Originally Posted by the goat View Post

      If you are spinning, you are spamming, and eventually you will be penalized. If a human can't read it and won't benefit from it then you will not gain from it in the long term.
      Sticking to the theme of generalisations in this thread then I guess...

      Since when does spinning mean that the article isn't quality/readable by humans?
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      • Profile picture of the author the goat
        Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

        Sticking to the theme of generalisations in this thread then I guess...

        Since when does spinning mean that the article isn't quality/readable by humans?
        Oh here we go. You are going to start spouting about human spinning? And spintax? That isn't spinning, it is plagiarism.
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        • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
          Originally Posted by the goat View Post

          Oh here we go. You are going to start spouting about human spinning? And spintax? That isn't spinning, it is plagiarism.
          Wow, responding to accusations of generalising with another generalisation- good going.

          As I stated in this post, in situations when I deem it prudent to use a spinner, I never use anything but my own content. So no, it isn't plagiarism.

          Secondly, yes, I am going to 'spout' about human spinning since it is worth mentioning. Again as I described in the post linked to above, I can create several completely rewritten, high quality articles that read well by using a spinner properly.

          As I always mention on any thread to do with spinning, why I might choose to use a spinner is irrelevant, (hint, it's nothing to do with backlinks) but I will defend the practice to the end in the face of constant linkages to spam. The tool/method itself is perfect for rewriting articles, the fact that some people use it for spamming does not change that.
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          • Profile picture of the author the goat
            Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

            Wow, responding to accusations of generalising with another generalisation- good going.

            yes, I am going to 'spout' about human spinning since it is worth mentioning.
            And I was exactly right, you did exactly what I said you would. Human spinning is not spinning. In the case of using others content it is plagiarism, in the case of using your own content it is re-writing.

            You are re-writing your articles, you are not spinning them, humans don't spin.
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            • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
              Originally Posted by the goat View Post

              And I was exactly right, you did exactly what I said you would. Human spinning is not spinning. In the case of using others content it is plagiarism, in the case of using your own content it is re-writing.

              You are re-writing your articles, you are not spinning them, humans don't spin.
              Well yes, though my point wasn't to debate the semantics of it with you .

              'Human Spinning' just seems like a more convenient term to use than 'Using spinning software properly to create multiple rewrites of an article'.

              The point is, a spinner allows the user to create a bunch of different rewrites in one go, rather than rewriting the article several times over. Again, I acknowledge that it takes significantly longer to do it properly, and the user must ensure that every single variation possible within the article will make sense, no matter what order the spinner churns it out in.

              No bot/software can do this- which is why I insist that there is a difference between using a spinner and 'human spinning'.
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              • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
                Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

                Well yes, though my point wasn't to debate the semantics of it with you .

                'Human Spinning' just seems like a more convenient term to use than 'Using spinning software properly to create multiple rewrites of an article'.

                The point is, a spinner allows the user to create a bunch of different rewrites in one go, rather than rewriting the article several times over. Again, I acknowledge that it takes significantly longer to do it properly, and the user must ensure that every single variation possible within the article will make sense, no matter what order the spinner churns it out in.

                No bot/software can do this- which is why I insist that there is a difference between using a spinner and 'human spinning'.
                I'm not going to follow suit with the rest of this thread and just outright tell you spinning is stupid...If you rewrite your articles then you may as well spin them IMHO. If you like original and unique content and think it's important, then whether right or wrong you're obviously not going to like spinning.

                I'm curious, though, as to how you leverage your spun articles. You mentioned you don't do mass submission, so what all do you do? I'd love to hear what the life of a given article looks like...What makes it worth it to take time spinning an article to the degree necessary?

                Wow, what a constructive question...Good ol' Socratic method.

                For the record, I think anything less than 3 levels deep (paragraph->sentence->synonym) doesn't truly create unique versions in Google's eyes.
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              • Profile picture of the author the goat
                Originally Posted by MidlandsMarketer View Post

                Well yes, though my point wasn't to debate the semantics of it with you .

                'Human Spinning' just seems like a more convenient term to use than 'Using spinning software properly to create multiple rewrites of an article'.

                The point is, a spinner allows the user to create a bunch of different rewrites in one go, rather than rewriting the article several times over. Again, I acknowledge that it takes significantly longer to do it properly, and the user must ensure that every single variation possible within the article will make sense, no matter what order the spinner churns it out in.

                No bot/software can do this- which is why I insist that there is a difference between using a spinner and 'human spinning'.
                Gotcha on the semantics thing, but I still don't get why you would use such a labor intensive method in order to avoid the labor of writing. Why not just write?

                This is from the post you linked to: "This isn't the easiest task, but for those who are willing to put in the time and effort (a 500 word article can take me up to an hour to properly setup), the result is a set of high-quality articles that allow a degree of uniqueness to be retained"

                I could write 4 original content 500 word articles in an hour, why spend that much time spinning one?
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  • Profile picture of the author jolarry
    Originally Posted by dotgirish View Post

    • We are mostly spinning words so finally all the variations may end up in almost same number of words
    • We use same structre and layout so final version of all the articles from the seed would looks similar.
    • Article creation date seems to be almost the same with some seconds difference, many of the articles directories and web 2.0 have a posting date.
    • Same number of paragraphs, same layout, same structure , what a big footprint..
    • Anchor text placed in same location , say end of first paragraph
    • Same author name/ Pen name used
    • Number of boldings, images, h2 tags, tables remains same
    With a good spin you can change the structure and length of the text.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Words have specific meanings. When a real writer uses a specific word he or she often takes a lot of time to select that word. No other word will do. No other even comes close to conveying the message the writer intends.

    There may or may not be synonyms for that word but it doesn't matter. When someone decides they want to manually rewrite or digitally spin something it or s/he plugs in various words with similar meanings. Many people calling themselves writers along with the various software programs out there designed to substitute words don't and never can do justice with their word substitutions. Spun and rewritten articles are NEVER as good or even as close to as good as the originals. The only way to get something as good as the original is for a qualified writer to write something unique and original from scratch.

    But advocates of spinning don't care because they aren't writing for people they're most often writing for software. Isn't that nice? Human robots and actual software writing for software. This is the real problem because all of this "manufactured" content is almost literally useless to people who go online to actually learn stuff. That's the problem with spinning and rewriting by people who don't know or care about what they're doing.

    But selfish people continue to litter the Internet with spun junk for the almighty backlink not caring that they leave nothing good behind. They are in it only for themselves.

    The good news is that Google and other SEs are getting hip to this and penalizing the hacks and the spinners. Why are they doing this? So people who come online to actually get real information have a real chance of coming away with real information. I'm all for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author MidlandsMarketer
    I'm curious, though, as to how you leverage your spun articles. You mentioned you don't do mass submission, so what all do you do? I'd love to hear what the life of a given article looks like...What makes it worth it to take time spinning an article to the degree necessary?
    Ack, the dilemma of wanting to keep your methods close to your chest whilst wanting to be a helpful WF member!

    Ok, I'd like to clear things up by saying the utilisation of spun/rewritten/magically transformed (hey, why not?) articles is not something I do on even a semi-regular basis.

    As a scenario that may or may not have happened in the past, say you have a deep-content authority site that is ranking in the top spots on G for your desired term(s). If, say, you were fed up of losing traffic to the other sites in the top spots, you may deem it appropriate to create a new site (hosted of course on a completely seperate server).

    Seeing as you already have a site filled with content that Google clearly likes, and that discusses most everything possible within the niche, writing a bunch of new articles discussing the same things from scratch doesn't appeal to you.

    Instead, you feed your articles into spinning software, and come up with 4/5 different variations of each paragraph, sentence, and word (where possible.. of course leaving the KWs intact). You hit the spin button and bang, you have 10 quality articles that Google will love ready to go. Rinse and repeat with different seed articles and you have a ton of content for your new site. Hey, there's some spill over so maybe you decide to set up another website to grab other front page spots?

    I could write 4 original content 500 word articles in an hour, why spend that much time spinning one?
    Because, done properly, and if you have call for it, this method can turn out 10 (perhaps more if you're willing to do more editing) unique articles.

    Look, I get that some people won't like or appreciate my appreciation of spinning for some purposes. (and I TOTALLY get the hate directed towards articles that are stolen and poorly spun, it's deserved) That said, I hope this post goes to explaining it to some extent.
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