Increasing Conversion Thoughts

4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

they never come back though they leave to think about it or to come back with mom or a friend.

The absolute first question out of my mouth - What is the percentage of dresses sold with just the bride vs bride and mom or bride and friend?

The 25 to 33% conversion I will BET MY LIFE ON Is bride with mom and or friend, and damn near NEVER Bride alone.

Women cant go to the bathroom alone... and we are expecting them to pick a wedding dress?

I would suggest you don't need "More" appointments, or you don't need to select "fewer dresses". You need to as Claude mentions here ( https://www.warriorforum.com/copywri...l#post11554450 ) identify the greatest percentage of buyers and target them.

In this case its not so much The buyer.. but creating an atmosphere that invites the mom and friends for a 2 hour session that includes light hors d'oeuvres and coffee and tea ( Keurig ) or bottled water and rice cakes

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DABK

4 years ago

I thought of that too. But they do have not kept track prior to me getting into the picture, so a few years of data is gone and I cannot show them proof yet.

From the little data we have:
The best way is when moms are involved by not able to be physically present (they're out of the country or in another state and cannot come).

Second best is when mom and daughter come together to the first appointment.

The biggest time saver in these 2 instances is that no second appointment is required. (The negative? Moms sometimes overrule daughters and daughters who'd have bought do not buy or they want to come back.)

I am expecting that the data will show that it's not a good idea to advertise to Pentecostal churches (they have a few in the immediate area and, of course, they thought: Proximity! Whoo-hoo!

Seems Easter Europeans (if not Pentecostal) are more easily convinced to buy than anyone else except Armenians.

I have some indication that older brides are easier to sell to than younger ones. Possibly because they're more likely to come by themselves. They have no data but they do remember that some 6 months ago an attorney in her early 30's came by herself and bought one of their most expenses without much fuss.

But they just don't have data.

I have a bunch of ideas on things to change, but Sister 1 is opposed to change, though she wants more sales.

And, I have now a bit more info. She worked in a bridal store in the coolest / richest part of the city. The owner there told her it had taken her store 6 years to not lose money and now, it seems, that owner is making 60k for herself and 50k for her daughter each year, and Sister 1 considers them to be a great store so, since her store got to break even within 1 year of opening either makes change a thing to be afraid of or makes her sure she's doing everything right.

Originally Posted by savidge4

The absolute first question out of my mouth - What is the percentage of dresses sold with just the bride vs bride and mom or bride and friend?

The 25 to 33% conversion I will BET MY LIFE ON Is bride with mom and or friend, and damn near NEVER Bride alone.

Women cant go to the bathroom alone... and we are expecting them to pick a wedding dress?

I would suggest you don't need "More" appointments, or you don't need to select "fewer dresses". You need to as Claude mentions here ( https://www.warriorforum.com/copywri...l#post11554450 ) identify the greatest percentage of buyers and target them.

In this case its not so much The buyer.. but creating an atmosphere that invites the mom and friends for a 2 hour session that includes light hors d'oeuvres and coffee and tea ( Keurig ) or bottled water and rice cakes

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savidge4

4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

From the little data we have:
The best way is when moms are involved by not able to be physically present (they're out of the country or in another state and cannot come).

Second best is when mom and daughter come together to the first appointment.

Something I have done with the 1 or 2 shops I deal with... In both cases there are "Booths" aka lounges for each bride, and in each booth we mounted a TV vertically that was connected with AppleTV so that an iPhone could be "connected" and when the fittings take place, a distant mom could be facetimed and be a part of the experience.

Originally Posted by DABK

Seems Eastern Europeans (if not Pentecostal) are more easily convinced to buy than anyone else except Armenians.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that the "Sisters" are eastern European in decent.. and with that comes a level of trust, and their ability to understand traditions, and etiquettes

Originally Posted by DABK

I have some indication that older brides are easier to sell to than younger ones. Possibly because they're more likely to come by themselves. They have no data but they do remember that some 6 months ago an attorney in her early 30's came by herself and bought one of their most expenses without much fuss.

Older vs younger - 2nd marriage vs 1st marriage. I will presume the 1st marriage dresses cost a whole lot more. In terms of the 30 yr old that comes in without much fuss and buys the most expensive dress they have.. that was once in 6 months... a business can not be built on that - unless you are building homes or something LOL.

You do have to keep in mind as Millenials start "Maturing" (yeah right ) 30 becomes the new 20's. So brides are getting older. A part of this is they are waiting to have the education the job the house and the car in place before they get married. The down side of this is they are in debt up to their eyeballs once they get there.

Originally Posted by DABK

I also noticed that, though the general population here has over 30% fat people, and something like 20% obese, bridal stores cater only to women that are thin or average.

Have you been to the store? have you looked at the prices of the dresses? DATA would suggest this would not be such a wise move. With Obesity comes not being as well off ( all of this being as it relates to women ) Here is a round up of 21 studies ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5781054/ ) You can search more on this if you like.

Generally speaking unless you are targeting fat loss.. plus sizing is something in retail that is associated to volume sales IE look at all of the stores that cater to this and they tend to be discount type stores. YES, they are some market changes taking place for more expensive offerings, but in this case if there is a store 20 miles away that specializes in this... I would stray away.

( Just want to note here I am not expressing my own personal opinion here - Obesity is hard enough as it is, you don't need some guy on a marketing forum painting this whole bleek picture... but facts are facts - sorry )

Right now you need to be looking for who the ideal customer is - we say that here all of the time. Is it the 30 something with a power job? Is it the 20 something that has rich parents and is going to have the dream wedding? Is it the young lady that is getting married for the 2nd time?

Each of those targets in terms of sales process are way different... the Attorney was no fuss try this and this and this.. Ill take this one please ( the most expensive dress on the racks ) Or its the 2nd marriage type that has been there done that and is not buying the most expensive... or its the young bride that is living out her childhood dream - more work overall but I would bet the price tags in at the end of the day are generally higher.

Right now it seems they are trying to be all things to everyone, and generally when this happens things will decline over time - for better or for worse this is just how things work. THEY ( the sisters ) need to figure out where the least amount of work and the greatest amount of profit sits, and focus on that

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DABK

4 years ago

Thanks.

They are Eastern European but it's more than that: the style of the dresses appeals more to Eastern Europeans... most of their designers are form that part of the world and Spain and Italy.

I talked to Sister number 2 or 3 years ago, before they opened the store: She wanted everybody. Sister #2, because she was new to the business, deferred to Sister #1.

I let them be. And now, we're talking again. Since then, they paid for a lot of advertising that did not work and hired marketers that told them the same things (you need a great usp, you're targeting too broadly, etc.) but did not deliver. So, they've learned some, but not as much as I thought they would.

Now, Sister #1 still insists that once a bride-to-be falls in love with a dress, she'll find the money for it. Sister #2, looking at their experiences, has concluded that, when a bride-to-be falls in love with a dress, she'll find a couple of hundred extra but no bride whose budget is $1500 will go to $3500, for instance.

Still, even Sister #2, until recently thought her ideal customer is 24-35 years old and college-educated. But I did get her to think some more and collect data. We'll get there but

It's a slower than I expected learning process.

But, since when it comes to getting them more appointments they agreed with me and are paying, I will work with them.

Eventually, they reach capacity and accept that ceiling or do not. If they do not, we talk about their sale processes.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Something I have done with the 1 or 2 shops I deal with... In both cases there are "Booths" aka lounges for each bride, and in each booth we mounted a TV vertically that was connected with AppleTV so that an iPhone could be "connected" and when the fittings take place, a distant mom could be facetimed and be a part of the experience.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that the "Sisters" are eastern European in decent.. and with that comes a level of trust, and their ability to understand traditions, and etiquettes

Older vs younger - 2nd marriage vs 1st marriage. I will presume the 1st marriage dresses cost a whole lot more. In terms of the 30 yr old that comes in without much fuss and buys the most expensive dress they have.. that was once in 6 months... a business can not be built on that - unless you are building homes or something LOL.

You do have to keep in mind as Millenials start "Maturing" (yeah right ) 30 becomes the new 20's. So brides are getting older. A part of this is they are waiting to have the education the job the house and the car in place before they get married. The down side of this is they are in debt up to their eyeballs once they get there.

Have you been to the store? have you looked at the prices of the dresses? DATA would suggest this would not be such a wise move. With Obesity comes not being as well off ( all of this being as it relates to women ) Here is a round up of 21 studies ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5781054/ ) You can search more on this if you like.

Generally speaking unless you are targeting fat loss.. plus sizing is something in retail that is associated to volume sales IE look at all of the stores that cater to this and they tend to be discount type stores. YES, they are some market changes taking place for more expensive offerings, but in this case if there is a store 20 miles away that specializes in this... I would stray away.

( Just want to note here I am not expressing my own personal opinion here - Obesity is hard enough as it is, you don't need some guy on a marketing forum painting this whole bleek picture... but facts are facts - sorry )

Right now you need to be looking for who the ideal customer is - we say that here all of the time. Is it the 30 something with a power job? Is it the 20 something that has rich parents and is going to have the dream wedding? Is it the young lady that is getting married for the 2nd time?

Each of those targets in terms of sales process are way different... the Attorney was no fuss try this and this and this.. Ill take this one please ( the most expensive dress on the racks ) Or its the 2nd marriage type that has been there done that and is not buying the most expensive... or its the young bride that is living out her childhood dream - more work overall but I would bet the price tags in at the end of the day are generally higher.

Right now it seems they are trying to be all things to everyone, and generally when this happens things will decline over time - for better or for worse this is just how things work. THEY ( the sisters ) need to figure out where the least amount of work and the greatest amount of profit sits, and focus on that

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DABK

4 years ago

Regarding fat: that depends who you target.

Many have Mom and Dad or the future husband pay. So, the bride being fat is a non-issue. Thing to figure out is how do you know if the parents/future husband are or not.

Their site states the price range of their dresses. Most brides seem to pay attention... I mean, they seem to have rarely have someone come in asking for a dress cheaper than the cheapest price they have (They have for each designer the price range, some designers are cheaper than others. but not by much.)

Me, I think they should go for the older brides, the ones that have a good-paying careers... From the summaries of various sales they've had, their Mom's are less likely to over-rule them, or even try to, and they seem to have a better idea of what they want and what they can afford, which seems to translate into them wanting to try on fewer dresses and not needing to come back.

But, it's anecdotal at this point... Still, I think their data is going to back me up on this.

I appreciate your input.

Originally Posted by savidge4

Have you been to the store? have you looked at the prices of the dresses? DATA would suggest this would not be such a wise move. With Obesity comes not being as well off ( all of this being as it relates to women ) Here is a round up of 21 studies ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5781054/ ) You can search more on this if you like.

Generally speaking unless you are targeting fat loss.. plus sizing is something in retail that is associated to volume sales IE look at all of the stores that cater to this and they tend to be discount type stores. YES, they are some market changes taking place for more expensive offerings, but in this case if there is a store 20 miles away that specializes in this... I would stray away.

( Just want to note here I am not expressing my own personal opinion here - Obesity is hard enough as it is, you don't need some guy on a marketing forum painting this whole bleek picture... but facts are facts - sorry )

Right now you need to be looking for who the ideal customer is - we say that here all of the time. Is it the 30 something with a power job? Is it the 20 something that has rich parents and is going to have the dream wedding? Is it the young lady that is getting married for the 2nd time?

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misterme 4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

You are very right, Mr. M... They have not done so... Sister 1's reason: she already knows what she'll find. Sister 2: too busy.. Pride, stubbornness and blinders

I'd wish them good luck and walk away. When patients with dire circumstances don't follow their doctors' instructions, the doctors can't help them and fire their patients. If a doctor can do that with someone under life and death circumstances, how much more so does it matter that it's a dress shop?

Because what will probably happen to you is, it won't work out for them and guess who'll get the blame on their reputation? Not them. Noooo, "I told DABK it wasn't going to work" they'll say.

Originally Posted by DABK

Me, I think they should go for the older brides, the ones that have a good-paying careers

That's one good reason out of many why older brides make much better customers.
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savidge4

4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

Me, I think they should go for the older brides, the ones that have a good-paying careers... From the summaries of various sales they've had, their Mom's are less likely to over-rule them, or even try to, and they seem to have a better idea of what they want and what they can afford, which seems to translate into them wanting to try on fewer dresses and not needing to come back.

I see the logic in this but it becomes a targeting nightmare. Bypassing the 20 something bride and targeting the mom of a bride is S O O O much easier, and more efficient ( or that is my experience )

The only thing that comes to mind is identifying the smaller venues in your area that do receptions / weddings and speaking with the events coordinator or the like to get on a "Preferred Vendors" List or the like. If you can actually get your hands on the list you then would have a list of Wedding planners to approach.

30 somethings that are well off are in general going to have smaller more intimate weddings - or that is what I have seen in terms of being a cool 50 something and invited to a lot of 30 something weddings.

In terms of Obesity - They might have parents, they might have future husbands - it just goes against the data. Yes I am sure it happens, but by enlarge ( no pun intended ) the data says no. There are actually a ton of studies on the topic you can look them up and read a ton of them for yourself. But the more of them you read the more you understand for whatever reason a families wealth is often related to the wifes weight weight. Men are actually the exact opposite... "Fat" equates to income. BUT fat men with Obese wifes - poor.

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Jeffery

4 years ago

^ What Savidge4 said ^
Two sisters with two different ways of selling to an individual(s) creates an atmosphere of confusion and awkwardness for a future bride. I bet the customer and/or friends (influencers) are overwhelmed and that leads to doubts and walk-outs.

That is fundamental and has to be resolved before anything else can happen. Once it is resolved I am confident there will be increased sales.

My experience with Wedding Boutiques is not extensive, but I have a lot of clients that own boutiques offline and I have observed many. The ones that make sales have 1-2-3-knock-em-out approach:

1 Salesperson greets and introduces the client and any influencers to the store and staff.

2 Salespeople indiscreetly split the bride and the influencers into two groups while creating and maintaining an atmosphere of closeness/unity (divide & conquer).

The third salesperson only enters the picture after the first salesperson makes a secret gesture. This individual politely approaches the influencers with "upsales" and makes the influencers think it is their own idea.

In this case its not so much The buyer.. but creating an atmosphere that invites the mom and friends for a 2 hour session that includes light hors d'oeuvres and coffee and tea ( Keurig ) or bottled water and rice cake.

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DABK

4 years ago

It's set up badly, what you suggest is right but cannot be done due to space constraints. However, I've been thinking about ways of achieving something like that with distractions for the rest of the people in the bride's party.

I also noticed that, though the general population here has over 30% fat people, and something like 20% obese, bridal stores cater only to women that are thin or average.

You'd have to drive 22 miles from their store (in a densely populated area) to get to a store that has dresses in size 14 or larger.

I've got them convinced to start buying larger sizes and got them to talk to the owner of the store 22 miles away... Who, among other things said, bigger brides are easier to deal with and sell to... The last part would be obvious: she really is the only one within a very large area that has what those brides want.

Originally Posted by Jeffery

^ What Savidge4 said ^
Two sisters with two different ways of selling to an individual(s) creates an atmosphere of confusion and awkwardness for a future bride. I bet the customer and/or friends (influencers) are overwhelmed and that leads to doubts and walk-outs.

That is fundamental and has to be resolved before anything else can happen. Once it is resolved I am confident there will be increased sales.

My experience with Wedding Boutiques is not extensive, but I have a lot of clients that own boutiques offline and I have observed many. The ones that make sales have 1-2-3-knock-em-out approach:

1 Salesperson greets and introduces the client and any influencers to the store and staff.

2 Salespeople indiscreetly split the bride and the influencers into two groups while creating and maintaining an atmosphere of closeness/unity (divide & conquer).

The third salesperson only enters the picture after the first salesperson makes a secret gesture. This individual politely approaches the influencers with "upsales" and makes the influencers think it is their own idea.

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umc

4 years ago

In answer to your question at the end about meeting people opposed to testing, sure. If a person is more interested in being right than being happy then they won't listen to feedback. That sister's ego is tied up in her conversion rate as a reflection on her personally and is resistant to change because it means she wasn't right all along or doing it the best way. It's often a sign of something like perfectionism. If she doesn't change that quality and work on it she will be one miserable person because she can't admit that there might be a better way. A growth mindset looks for ways to grow, a fixed mindset will cripple a person's growth and cause them to maintain misery because they see indications of needed growth as an indictment on their self and would rather protect the ego than be humble enough to grow.

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DABK

4 years ago

After finding more info, it seems it is mostly fear of change.

Couple with herself comparing everything with the store where she worked for 6 years prior to opening her own.

Seems she's copying everything those people did but is a better sales person than them. It never crossed her mind that those people (they've been in business for 20 years, downtown!) could not be perfect.

Originally Posted by umc

In answer to your question at the end about meeting people opposed to testing, sure. If a person is more interested in being right than being happy then they won't listen to feedback. That sister's ego is tied up in her conversion rate as a reflection on her personally and is resistant to change because it means she wasn't right all along or doing it the best way. It's often a sign of something like perfectionism. If she doesn't change that quality and work on it she will be one miserable person because she can't admit that there might be a better way. A growth mindset looks for ways to grow, a fixed mindset will cripple a person's growth and cause them to maintain misery because they see indications of needed growth as an indictment on their self and would rather protect the ego than be humble enough to grow.

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Jeffery

4 years ago

Taking everything into consideration the store owner has to realize that more sales will not be achieved if she does do not change her mindset. The worse that can happen is a competing store of a much larger size moves into the area and puts her out of business. That may be your only leverage to convince her to change her mindset.

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tryinhere

4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

I work with a bridal dress store. It is owned by 2 sisters. Who are having lots of fights.
Sister 1 wants me to get them more brides to visit them; which is not a bad idea.
Sister 2 wants to sell more dresses without having more appointments.

Why can you not do both ? test more visits and test > conversions ?

Also from the other side if I had a business and was wonky on my knees in decision making, I would probably be stone walled and rock solid with an outsider telling me how to change my business for the reasons you suggested.

So why not softly softly, and instead of trying to go we Will Do This, move to we will quietly test one thing at a time in the background and monitor results, then as we move forward we can then try xyz / the other idea and rinse and repeat, what works we will expand on slowly and what does not we will Can.

Somehow getting them both at each other with you as piggy in the middle seems a tough gig and I for one would walk away from as well, as who needs to deal with that shit, so by looking for a soft approach where all parties feel non threatened and all can test their idea would be where you could start to open the doors of trust. ?

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DABK

4 years ago

I have gotten them a lot of business already. They are about to reach capacity (not a big store); designed to have only 6 appointments at the same time. But if you have more than 3, it feels crowded.

So, I am working on getting them more appointments, but if I keep at the rate I am going, in about 3 months, the only way to increase income without moving to a larger location is to increase conversions. Plus, what is wrong with making 10-30% more for the same effort?

Originally Posted by tryinhere

Why can you not do both ? test more visits and test > conversions ?

Also from the other side if I had a business and was wonky on my knees in decision making, I would probably be stone walled and rock solid with an outsider telling me how to change my business for the reasons you suggested.

So why not softly softly, and instead of trying to go we Will Do This, move to we will quietly test one thing at a time in the background and monitor results, then as we move forward we can then try xyz / the other idea and rinse and repeat, what works we will expand on slowly and what does not we will Can.

Somehow getting them both at each other with you as piggy in the middle seems a tough gig and I for one would walk away from as well, as who needs to deal with that shit, so by looking for a soft approach where all parties feel non threatened and all can test their idea would be where you could start to open the doors of trust. ?

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misterme

4 years ago

Originally Posted by DABK

They are about to reach capacity (not a big store); designed to have only 6 appointments at the same time. But if you have more than 3, it feels crowded.

Being seen as busy and in-demand, is a good thing.

Originally Posted by DABK

Couple with herself comparing everything with the store where she worked for 6 years prior to opening her own

The last place's earnings unfortunately have set a ceiling in her mind. Her "sales thermostat" needs resetting. Take them to visit a more lucrative (think "Kleinfeld") shop so they can get the look, feel, sound of what a more successful operations sounds and looks like. What do those salespeople say? What do those salespeople do? How does the place look, feel?

Originally Posted by DABK

Right now, they start each appointment with 6 to 10 dresses.

The biggest hurdle. You give people too many choices at once and they cannot choose. Often, brides leave living 2 dresses, really loving them; and they never come back though they leave to think about it or to come back with mom or a friend.

So this sounds like they could be more efficient in the closing process. They need to sell the decision makers for sure, not get rid of them. And given the final two selections of dresses this should be a matter of focusing in on the ol' Elmer Wheeler "which one?" rather than on yes or no and getting stalls. Maybe incentives to help close?

Originally Posted by DABK

I suggested they start with an introduction, describing their process, which would be: We will start by asking you questions to figure out what you like; then we start bringing dresses that match out to you. Because of space constrains, we will bring them out in sets of 3, till you find the One.

Instead of talking at the customers in this way, instead, have them involving the customers to co-create the solution.

Yeah, when a salesperson or business owner's ego gets in their way, remember what Jon Taffer says, it starts with acknowledging that the problem is with the person you see in the mirror. Until and unless the person acknowledges that they will blame everything and everyone else and that's why it can't get fixed until they realize they're the problem.

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Claude Whitacre

4 years ago

Originally Posted by misterme

The last place's earnings unfortunately have set a ceiling in her mind. Her "sales thermostat" needs resetting. Take them to visit a more lucrative (think "Kleinfeld") shop so they can get the look, feel, sound of what a more successful operations sounds and looks like. What do those salespeople say? What do those salespeople do? How does the place look, feel?

In my opinion, the smartest idea here. Let them see for themselves what is possible. No amount of talk will convince anyone. But if they see an operation doing ten times their business, it may reset their thermostat.

As far as selling, if someone thinks they already know how to sell, they need to see a real salesperson in action. A trip to a high end shop should do wonders, or it's a lost cause.

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DABK

4 years ago

That was why, 3 years ago, I let them be.

They were sure that a) I, being a man, have no way to understand bridal dress businesses and b) their business was different then any other business.

They (more Sister 2 than 1) now have come to believe that differently... They both still think that my writing is not soft enough... Soft seems to mean using a lot of pointless adjectives and beating around the bush... But since I started 3 months ago, they tripled the money they spend on / with me... So, even though they're not willing to admit it to me, I figure they've come to understand you don't have to be a woman or own their business to understand how to get appointments for it.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

In my opinion, the smartest idea here. Let them see for themselves what is possible. No amount of talk will convince anyone. But if they see an operation doing ten times their business, it may reset their thermostat.

As far as selling, if someone thinks they already know how to sell, they need to see a real salesperson in action. A trip to a high end shop should do wonders, or it's a lost cause.

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DABK

4 years ago

You are very right, Mr. M.

I had suggested, but they have not done it yet, to shop the stores a couple of levels up, the ones with the 20k+ dresses... or, at least, to consider what happens when you sell dresses at 20k a pop... Or a couple of stores that sell cheaper dresses but seem to sell them in far higher quantities.

They have not done so.

Do you know why? Sister 1's reason: she already knows what she'll find.

Sister 2: too busy but will get to it when she has a bit of a down time, which should be in February, she thinks.

Pride, stubbornness and blinders are not a good combo. Not from a financial point of view.

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