Copywriters that Advocate Cold Calling

27 replies
Dan Lok: Dan has all sorts of videos where he talks about how he got started as a copywriter using cold calls. Watch one here: Lok on Cold Calling

In his own words:

How To Succeed In Your Copywriting Career With The Gun To The Head Method

Then I became a freelance copywriter with a one-man advertising agency. Problem was, as a young guy with broken English, I couldn't get clients. So, what I did is I came up with an irresistible offer.

I was calling business owners and saying, you know what, I am a copywriter, and I saw your ad in the Yellow Pages. What they didn't know was that I contacted them because they were running half or full page ads so I knew how much they were spending on the ad.

I would tell them that I didn't have a lot of experience, but I was willing to rewrite their ad, and if they weren't happy with it, they didn't have to pay me. But if the ad worked, they would pay me $500 to $800.

Not everyone said Yes, but I got enough saying Yes that I started building my own little client base. It was do or die copywriting. Or gun to the head copywriting.

If I didn't work, I didn't eat. It was how I honed my craft. With experience, I found which ads worked and which didn't. I noticed patterns.


Jon Soars:

Boosting Freelance Copywriting Cold-Call Results
This is based on my experience trying to drum up business over the phone.

I've seen some folks despairing over their marketing efforts, and I wanted to share something that worked for me.

Believe me, I understand the despair.

At first, cold calling was miserable for me.

I spent hours downloading lists from InfoUSA, organizing them by time-zone, and plugging away on the phone.


Read the rest of John Soar's post here.

Peter Bowerman of "The Well-Fed Writer" fame advocates cold calling so much for copywriters, he has a 1000 Cold Call Challenge in his book. Oh, by the way, this is what Bob Bly has to say about Peter's book:

"...the best advice on how to make more money writing for corporate clients I have ever read."

Bob Bly, Copywriter, Author of 75 books, including
Secrets of a Freelance Writer

Carol Tice is another heavyweight in the copywriting realm and she has 5 courses in her Writer's Den which advocates and teaches cold calling.

My personal take on cold calling is it is faster and a lot more fun than waiting years to build a reputation. Yeah, you have to compile and cherry-pick a list, make the calls and follow up, but it works a hell of a lot faster than any other method. But, when you call and make a follow up appointment and everyone is super nice to you (I've never actually had a bad experience, at all) you'll feel like a million bucks.

My personal take.

God Bless!

Elmo
#advocate #calling #cold #copywriters
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Personally, I suck at cold calling. I know it... I freely admit it... And I don't care to get any better at it.

    I'm sure it stems from my short time in the telemarketing industry, about 25 years ago, where I had a manager who was a tyrant. His motivational method was to throw people in the pit and yell at them. And his mantra was to tell us that if we didn't reach a certain number of sales, we were losers, and we were fired.

    After a couple weeks, my final response was "You can't fire me... because I quit" . I'm pretty sure I also called him a few choice names, and threatened to smash his face (I had anger issues back then... but I'm feeling much better now)


    The experience left me with a lasting impression, and a stigma about cold calling that turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Because as a result I eventually learned how to sell with the written word.


    Fast forward a couple decades and I've gotten quite a few clients by sending them a well written offer. Which always made sense to me, because what better way to sell copywriting services than through direct response copywriting?

    This way when I get a response it's someone contacting me for my help. And I feel more like a helpful resource, rather than an interruption to their day.

    Also, when I get a response they're already pre-convinced of my writing skills. Because just the fact that they responded gives them confirmation that I can write. (what better reference than a persons own confirmation bias?)



    Now don't get me wrong here... I have all the respect in the world for anyone who's good at making cold calls. They possess a valuable skill that I do not have, and I admire them for that.

    But for any writer, like me, who dreads cold calling... An obvious alternative would be to sell your writing services through the written word. It's not as fast as making phone calls, but it works.

    And if you can't sell yourself through the written word, then are you really a copywriter?
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  • There are plenty people expert in cold callin' who got instant hit smarts gushin' like fountains from their loominous megaphones.

    Howevah, I ain't even lukewarm in this area bcs my preference is for HOT CALLIN' -- an' copy fits that bill kinda sweet.

    Easiest way to figure the COLD vs COPY deal is to look in on the Red Ridin' Hood Story.

    Bcs actschwlly, this is all about the Wolf.

    In the COLD version of the story, the Wolf sets off into the forest, hungry for food.

    Problem is, there ain't nowan there, so the wolf starves to death.

    In the COPY version of the story, the Wolf sits down an figures a whole buncha research before plannin' his strategy.

    First stop -- put word out that a FEROCIOUS DRAGON has made her home in the forest.

    Next thing -- tear the guy with the axe to shreds while he sleeps.

    Third -- hype the dragon story like crazy! This ain't no fake nooz bcs LOOK AT ALL THE BLOOD!

    Fourth -- don a white robe an' show up as PROTECTOR OF THE FOREST.

    Fifth -- chill out watchin' Netflix on Granma's sofa while the gal in the stoopid hat & her Mom gratefully supply you with endless pizza.


    Srsly tho (bcs bein' fleeced by wolves is clearly humor-inspired fiction that would NEVAH HAPPEN anyplace real), evry pitch demands a script that matches a big ole tangible offer to an equally big (an' zackly same sized) HOLE an' says here's a perfect fit for your problem.

    An' that LOCAL deal is real cool if'n you can fix it.

    "Yeah cos I from round here too, so I get how things work."

    "Trust me, I'm your neighbour!"

    "You gotta watch those guys from XXX an' YYY bcs they see stuff different to us."

    Very emotive narrative here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post


    I was calling business owners and saying, you know what, I am a copywriter, and I saw your ad in the Yellow Pages. What they didn't know was that I contacted them because they were running half or full page ads so I knew how much they were spending on the ad.

    I would tell them that I didn't have a lot of experience, but I was willing to rewrite their ad, and if they weren't happy with it, they didn't have to pay me. But if the ad worked, they would pay me $500 to $800.
    I think the keys to the story here are;
    The offer was fantastic, and brain dead easy to say "Yes" to.
    The people he called have proven without any doubt that they are used to spending money on display ads, and are the very best prospects for someone selling advertising or copywriting services.

    In other words....

    Find out who is Highly Likely To Buy...

    And make them an irresistible...risk free offer that only a fool would reject.


    Now you know the secret to high level selling.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I think the keys to the story here are;
      The offer was fantastic, and brain dead easy to say "Yes" to.
      The people he called have proven without any doubt that they are used to spending money on display ads, and are the very best prospects for someone selling advertising or copywriting services.

      In other words....

      Find out who is Highly Likely To Buy...

      And make them an irresistible...risk free offer that only a fool would reject.


      Now you know the secret to high level selling.
      The Sopranos did that.
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  • Just a quick note on the art of crafting the irresistible offer.

    Much effort is needed - more than I ever thought - why do you say that Steve?

    Because when did you last see a truly irresistible offer? (not including a purveyor of goods whom you are a raving fan of and you automatically buy).

    But surely you just brew a blend of all the usual techniques.

    Hit all the "right" emotional hot spots. Add the logical reasons why the good people should buy. Make the cost look like the absolute bargain of the decade. And bung in 7 - 17 high value bonuses which on their own are worth far, far more than the "investment." All wrapped up in a long term, no risk, no quibble, no fuss watertight guarantee (and if for any reason, or no reason at all you are not happy, thrilled and ecstatic send it back and keep the bonuses with our compliments). You can even offer $10, $20, $50 plus in cash just for being kind enough to try it all out.

    A good starting point.

    But wait, don't most of the competition more or less do this (if not you could well be the winner).

    Usually you need to be a touch to a ton more imaginative to be head and shoulders above the others.


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Usually you need to be a touch to a ton more imaginative to be head and shoulders above the others.


      Steve
      I'm not a copywriter, I'm a salesman. So.....I hope this fits.

      I am in the middle of writing a 90 minute pitch to sell my selling system. I mentioned that to a friend, and he said "You're funny, so people will buy from you".

      He meant well. The truth is, I have to perfectly match at least some part of the pitch to the majority of the audience's prejudices, grievances, hopes...I have to answer every possible objection to buying (at least once), give them several "Aha" moments, create enough value that the price is a relief to hear, imply several times that the demand for this training exceeds supply...and then add the bonuses. And then...make the risk nothing.

      And I have to make the speech general enough to apply to almost everyone...but sound specific enough that it's a perfect match for them in their business.

      And...I have to make everyone feel like everyone else in the audience is eager to buy.

      It sounds like a herculean effort, but I have all the parts done. It's just a matter of putting them in the right order to build momentum...and sound like a story I'm just saying off the cuff.

      Maybe not that far off from copywriting.
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      • Profile picture of the author SARubin
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I'm not a copywriter, I'm a salesman. So.....I hope this fits.

        I am in the middle of writing a 90 minute pitch to sell my selling system. I mentioned that to a friend, and he said "You're funny, so people will buy from you".

        He meant well. The truth is, I have to perfectly match at least some part of the pitch to the majority of the audience's prejudices, grievances, hopes...I have to answer every possible objection to buying (at least once), give them several "Aha" moments, create enough value that the price is a relief to hear, imply several times that the demand for this training exceeds supply...and then add the bonuses. And then...make the risk nothing.

        And I have to make the speech general enough to apply to almost everyone...but sound specific enough that it's a perfect match for them in their business.

        And...I have to make everyone feel like everyone else in the audience is eager to buy.

        It sounds like a herculean effort, but I have all the parts done. It's just a matter of putting them in the right order to build momentum...and sound like a story I'm just saying off the cuff.

        Maybe not that far off from copywriting.
        You are awesome, Claude,


        Everything you just said sounds similar to the kind of thoughts that go through my mind whenever I start to write a sales piece.

        I guess the main difference for me, is that when I'm in selling face to face I can judge peoples body language and tone of voice, and adjust my message accordingly. (if they seem fidgety or anxious, I can bring back the calm focus. If they look bored or confused, I can shift on the fly to regain attention and rapport)

        But with the written word, once it's out there it's no longer in our control to adjust the rapport on the fly. (can't ask questions and wait for an answer - just have to try our best to anticipate what they might be thinking based on our research)

        But other than that... Good salesmanship, is good salesmanship. Plain and simple.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by SARubin View Post

          I guess the main difference for me, is that when I'm in selling face to face I can judge peoples body language and tone of voice, and adjust my message accordingly. (if they seem fidgety or anxious, I can bring back the calm focus. If they look bored or confused, I can shift on the fly to regain attention and rapport)

          But with the written word, once it's out there it's no longer in our control to adjust the rapport on the fly. (can't ask questions and wait for an answer - just have to try our best to anticipate what they might be thinking based on our research)
          And one objection I will answer in my pitch is "but I've read 5 (or 2) books on selling. Why do I need this?"

          So I gave this some thought today.
          As I have already said somewhere (bragged is a better word) I have a library of over 2,000 books on selling and related fields. And I've read almost all of them, and have repeatedly read maybe a dozen or so.

          But....a written book isn't the best way to learn selling. Selling includes the words you say...but also the voice inflection, volume, tonality, speed, body language, body positioning, shifting stance, distance, facial cues, and when and how to touch them.

          And that's why the training will be on DVD.

          So a Podcast is better, and a DVD is better yet. But nothing is as good as live training.
          Phone selling can be taught in sound only. And I was thinking that the only way to really learn selling by reading...is to study copywriting, because the written word is what you work with.

          I can't say this in a pitch, but my study of copywriting is the single best thing I ever studied to improve my selling. It would be like trying to learn to sell without uttering a word....depending only on gestures. That isolation of one facet of communication opens up a deep understanding of what you are doing. Only using words (and to a lesser extent graphics) to make the sale is a far more herculean task than using everything. You can't be mediocre to make it work.

          At the Warrior event in Raleigh NC (a few years ago) I talked to a copywriter (can't remember his name) and he was describing how to write in a woman's voice. It was fascinating, and completely beyond me.


          Added later; The book that made the hugest difference in my selling was How To Master The Art Of Selling by Tom Hopkins. I read it over a weekend vacation in 1982, I think. It's the first time I was ever seeing real technique in print being taught. I think I memorized about 90% of it, and went back to selling. It made a huge difference.

          Now, of course, it seems rudimentary. But it made a major shift in the direction of my craft. And a few years later, I bought the VHS training set (for $2,000, in mid 1980s). And found that I was doing it all wrong, because the voice in my head...the actions in my head (from the written word)...didn't match what was being done on the video.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            And one objection I will answer in my pitch is "but I've read 5 (or 2) books on selling. Why do I need this?"

            So I gave this some thought today.
            As I have already said somewhere (bragged is a better word) I have a library of over 2,000 books on selling and related fields. And I've read almost all of them, and have repeatedly read maybe a dozen or so.

            But....a written book isn't the best way to learn selling. Selling includes the words you say...but also the voice inflection, volume, tonality, speed, body language, body positioning, shifting stance, distance, facial cues, and when and how to touch them.

            And that's why the training will be on DVD.

            So a Podcast is better, and a DVD is better yet. But nothing is as good as live training.
            Phone selling can be taught in sound only. And I was thinking that the only way to really learn selling by reading...is to study copywriting, because the written word is what you work with.

            I can't say this in a pitch, but my study of copywriting is the single best thing I ever studied to improve my selling. It would be like trying to learn to sell without uttering a word....depending only on gestures. That isolation of one facet of communication opens up a deep understanding of what you are doing. Only using words (and to a lesser extent graphics) to make the sale is a far more herculean task than using everything. You can't be mediocre to make it work.

            At the Warrior event in Raleigh NC (a few years ago) I talked to a copywriter (can't remember his name) and he was describing how to write in a woman's voice. It was fascinating, and completely beyond me.


            Added later; The book that made the hugest difference in my selling was How To Master The Art Of Selling by Tom Hopkins. I read it over a weekend vacation in 1982, I think. It's the first time I was ever seeing real technique in print being taught. I think I memorized about 90% of it, and went back to selling. It made a huge difference.

            Now, of course, it seems rudimentary. But it made a major shift in the direction of my craft. And a few years later, I bought the VHS training set (for $2,000, in mid 1980s). And found that I was doing it all wrong, because the voice in my head...the actions in my head (from the written word)...didn't match what was being done on the video.
            The old timers would say, selling is a numbers game, see the people, see the people and see more people...all while developing and sharpening your skills. As one progresses, and I only had 1992 books on selling, persuasion and copywriting so I'm a bit jealous of Claude...

            I loved that Tom Hopkins book, and I cut my teeth at a very young age on the Elmers, Wheeler (Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle) and Leterman (The sale begins when the customer says no). New salespeople would start with a grind, tons of rejection, and that itself was a sorting mechanism, or some old guys thought.

            Best trainers would have a WATCH ME do it, then assist me, then do it while I watch you, then you do it, and then YOU get better at it. And if you get good, you make a decent living from it.

            But a direct salesperson is limited by the number of calls they could make, either on the phone or in person and over time, one could predict accurately, how many of either they would have to make, if the prospect had been targeted and sorted and KNOW with a regularity how much they would earn.

            Copywriters have huge numbers to work with. Lists may have millions of people on them. So whereas a direct salesman might need a 10% or 20% or much higher for the good ones of closes, of buyers...

            a good copywriter might need only a 2%, and superstar ones at 3 or 4% to a cold list.

            Give either a WARM list, or a HOT LIST, and both salesperson and copy writer will soar far above the average.

            At first, due to MY mentors, (I wish Claude had been around {well he probably was, didn't he sell Ben Franklin a stove cleaner?} ) at first

            Selling was a BOXING match. Then a DANCE, then a conversation, and then, effortless performance.

            Copy writing was always about targeting the smaller % of people will buy. I'm not sure about a salesperson being able to go 0 for 98 to get that 2%...that would be a grind and a half.

            Great copy writers like baseball players FAILED most times at bat, but then, there might be more variables to consider and in direct selling, the salesperson is able to control almost all of the elements, like location, time, motivation (as in a sale), and with skills, can be very successful.

            Even the best copy writers had some outside issues working against them, like having your promotion drop the day of tragedy, or the mailman throwing them in the dumpster.

            OK, sorry for the ramble, if I have a point, and these days, even I don't know...it is...

            Direct selling and cold calling made me a better copywriter...and

            having remote direct promotions out there, with my own money on the line...

            made me a better salesman.

            Understanding human behavior, especially buying behavior is TODAY, all about data collection and using the data in an educated way but at the end of the day, if you are a cold calling salesperson or a direct response copywriter...

            Get the prospect across the bridge to THEIR greener pastures, and you both will be happy.

            GordonJ
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


              Selling was a BOXING match. Then a DANCE, then a conversation, and then, effortless performance.
              Same here. For years it was a battle of wills, winning by attrition, And eventually a dance, and now a seemingly effortless conversation (although all the technique is just below the surface)

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Copy writing was always about targeting the smaller % of people will buy. I'm not sure about a salesperson being able to go 0 for 98 to get that 2%...that would be a grind and a half.
              "Targeting the smaller % that will buy" took me decades to discover. Even in speaking to groups, you need to ignore the non-buyers...maybe even piss them off a little, to motivate the buyers. When most speakers just concentrate on not offending anyone, and getting good reviews.

              Maybe an interesting aside....

              For years, I knew that our office closing percentage was 41%. That held very steadily for years. These were cold appointments, and not referrals. I eventually discovered that I could dramatically increase the chance of a sale (for me) if the prospects had at last one factor that made them more likely to buy.

              But for a long time, I accepted that 41% as a standard for the office (although the industry average was about 30%)

              It wasn't until near the end of selling in people's homes, that I decided to dissect that 41% group.

              And the results almost made me cry. Of all the cold appointments we went on......

              if we took out the people who were already highly likely to buy (because of a few factors about their past buying behavior)...then the rest of them were at the 2% likelihood of buying.

              So in my selling life, there were referrals from buyers (about 80% likely to buy), Highly Likely Buyers (because of past buying behavior), that were about 80% likely to buy...

              And referrals from buyers who also had at least one factor that made the Highly Likely Buyers, and they bought from me at about 98%. In fact, I can't recall any of these select people not buying, but records are records.

              and the rest of everyone willing to see us, with a likelihood of buying at about 2-5%.

              Those are my personal figures. Damn, I wish I knew all of this when I started out.
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                "Targeting the smaller % that will buy" took me decades to discover. Maybe an interesting aside....

                Those are my personal figures. Damn, I wish I knew all of this when I started out.
                IF I knew then, what I know now, .... (drum roll please) ......

                I would NOT have spent a lifetime of selling, ANYTHING.

                Allow a little backstory please.

                I had the privilege of being mentored by Joe Karbo in the mid 70's and through him met many a remote direct marketer. ONE big takeaway was his spending 20 bux a week on a hotsheet of boats and yachts for sale in S. CA, and he said it went out to around 200 people. I'm not great at math, but even I could figure out some guy was taking in $4,000.00 bux a WEEK for a piece of paper, an envelope and a stamp.

                I asked Joe, who was a publisher, why he didn't do this, why HE didn't publish and he said he would lose money if he spent the time doing it, or even have someone else do it for him. He GLADLY paid the 20 bux a week and was happy.

                Other hotsheets he got on a regular basis were about Overstocks, Distressed Merch, Closeouts, etc. Remember this was before the FAX even. Every thing was done via mail and on the phone which could get expensive for long distance (remember those days?).

                He pointed out that he had to find these, he was NOT solicited by anyone, there were no sales letters or ads, you had to be an "insider" to get involved.

                Somehow, THAT lightbulb never went off in my dark brain because I went on and SOLD stuff for decades after that. Now I liked selling, it was a challenge, and when it went well, which was most of the time, it was pleasurable too.

                But knowing now what I knew then, but didn't apply, my advice would be find stuff that people buy without being sold, and get in that PARADE.

                TODAY, the idea of a sales funnel, and collecting statistics and data, and SELLING anything to anyone is a gag point for me.

                But if you want or have to do it, LEARN how from guys like Claude who have been in those trenches and have come out far ahead of the rest. I can't wait for the training, which I plan on taking a look at, not because I want or need it, but to see how success does it from their perspectives.

                GordonJ
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                • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  I had the privilege of being mentored by Joe Karbo in the mid 70's...

                  If I had to choose one copywriter as my all-time favorite, it would be Joe Karbo. He's the one who got me hooked on copywriting.

                  John
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

                    If I had to choose one copywriter as my all-time favorite, it would be Joe Karbo. He's the one who got me hooked on copywriting.

                    John
                    He was interesting, because, he was interested in so many things. But his theater/acting background came into play too, a lot of copy "secrets" from the entertainment field, we had a discussion about Aristotle and his Poetics and Rhetoric...which were (are) basics on GETTING ATTENTION, holding it, and bringing it to a conclusion.

                    Joe's famous LAZY MAN'S ad, had some great stories in it, in minimum sentences. Still a great study in how copy can influence.

                    From what I could see, I think he was a very good father too, and that was important to him.

                    GordonJ

                    PS Joe turned me on to Gene Schwartz, who I think was one of his favorite copywriters. I don't have a fav, but I do know, I once owned everything Joe and Gene ever wrote about...so either they resonated with me, or I'm just a sucker for good copy.
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                • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  He pointed out that he had to find these, he was NOT solicited by anyone, there were no sales letters or ads, you had to be an "insider" to get involved.

                  Gordon, I know you're a hotsheet expert. So, explain this to me. How did the hotsheet seller get paying customers if he didn't do any promotion?

                  John
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

                    Gordon, I know you're a hotsheet expert. So, explain this to me. How did the hotsheet seller get paying customers if he didn't do any promotion?

                    John
                    John, back then, most promotion was word of mouth via newsletters. It seemed everyone had a newsletter, and I guess that was their promotion. In the case of my first encounter with the 20 dollar a week hotsheet for S. CA boats and yachts for sale, I think it was generated via some association at first. But I don't know. I was told it was limited to around 200 "subscribers", but I did not know how those subscribers came about. Again, I think it was through either an owner or broker association.

                    In the case of the surplus and overstock hotsheets, those came from a newsletter, and I understood it to be a sort of afterthought community, Joe being part of a surplus box or cardboard thing in his earlier days, and it went something like, a phone call to ask if a company had any surplus items, if yes, a list and prices...then more phone calls to find a demand. But again, I'm not real sure how one got his name on the list in the beginning.

                    By the time I saw them, many were small classified ads in Popular Science or those types of magazines or small classifieds in newsletters, so maybe it was wrong of me to say NO promotion, but I did not see any solicitations from the hotsheets I saw, and Joe said you had to know someone to get on the list. I believe there was a waiting list for the boats and yachts, which is what caused the 20 dollar a week price. Exclusivity and membership. But also, that community (yacht owners) was much smaller and they seemed to know one another and most of the brokers too.

                    You have to remember, this was before fax, long distance phone was expensive, mail was the media of the day, and newsletters and magazines were cheap to produce and mail. I don't know how most of them did it, but I believe you had to know a guy. OR respond to a newsletter, or magazine ad/article....most articles back then in Biz Op mags were pretty much ads for a biz op too. Also, it seemed as if everyone in the mail order business had a newsletter too, I believe that may have been a source, although I don't know it they paid to be in them or it was a quid pro quo type of thing.

                    Just this month, I picked up several FREE calendars (a form of a hotsheet)...all of which were either sponsored, or had ads sprinkled through them.

                    GordonJ
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                    • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
                      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                      By the time I saw them, many were small classified ads in Popular Science or those types of magazines or small classifieds in newsletters...
                      Thanks. That's interesting. The problem, of course, was that those little ads took forever to appear in print! Thank goodness for the Internet...

                      John
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                      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                        Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

                        Thanks. That's interesting. The problem, of course, was that those little ads took forever to appear in print! Thank goodness for the Internet...

                        John
                        It wasn't a problem for those who knew what they were doing and making tons of moolah from doing it. Yes, today, NOW, things are so much easier, we'd think there would be more success here at WF, but alas, many make even today a struggle.

                        Per capita, or per marketer, I suspect it was and always will be about 20/80 with the 20 being successful. At one time, there were thousands of little classified ads, and probably most of them were tests or attempts by the 80 who didn't have a clue.

                        GordonJ

                        PS There were lots of courses, some even with the new fangled cassettes, to teach people how to get rich in mail order. Not much has changed there, except the media. OH, before the cassette, we had courses on VINYL, one of the earliest I remember was from Earl Nightengale and one from Elmer Wheeler (both gifts, although I would have preferred Elvis).
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      Hit all the "right" emotional hot spots. Add the logical reasons why the good people should buy. Make the cost look like the absolute bargain of the decade. And bung in 7 - 17 high value bonuses which on their own are worth far, far more than the "investment." All wrapped up in a long term, no risk, no quibble, no fuss watertight guarantee (and if for any reason, or no reason at all you are not happy, thrilled and ecstatic send it back and keep the bonuses with our compliments). You can even offer $10, $20, $50 plus in cash just for being kind enough to try it all out.
      Interesting post. I don't doubt that the above would work for some products, but would it work for pitching copywriting services?

      Of course, any pitch should be catered to the particular market & list...

      But speaking generally, as an exercise, let's walk through how the above applies to copywriting services...

      Hit all the "right" emotional hot spots --

      Fear of missing out -- money/business left on the table?
      Anger and frustration at wasting your advertising investment?
      Anger at less-experienced, lower-quality competitors enjoying business that should be yours?
      Frustration that a past advertising effort didn't turn out well?

      ??

      Add the logical reasons why the good people should buy.

      If you're going to be in business, you should advertise. And if you advertise, your effort should be worthy of your product/service and advertising budget...?
      ??


      And bung in 7 - 17 high value bonuses which on their own are worth far, far more than the "investment."

      (Not applicable to copywriting services?)
      ??


      All wrapped up in a long term, no risk, no quibble, no fuss watertight guarantee[I] (and if for any reason, or no reason at all you are not happy, thrilled and ecstatic send it back and keep the bonuses with our compliments)

      If the copy doesn't hit, I'll work with you until it does?
      If the copy doesn't increase your profit, you pay nothing?
      I work on commission?
      ??


      You can even offer $10, $20, $50 plus in cash just for being kind enough to try it all out.

      (Doesn't apply to copywriting?...)

      ???

      Other thoughts?
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  • Claude,

    And a very warm welcome to the wonderful world of copywriting!

    What you described is mainly the "Pitch."

    The next momentous task is to construct the "Offer" (certainly you'll find golden nuggets in the "pitch.").

    Worry not - copywriting at it's very best is "Salesmanship in Print."

    I think everything should work out rather well for you.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Maybe including "You will be smarter than the average bear" without using that phrase of course and "You are making a smart buying decision" again, without using that phrase. Conveying they are "smart" and are doing the smart thing.



    Question if you don't mind please.. How would that make a difference, if any at all?
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    In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

      Maybe including "You will be smarter than the average bear" without using that phrase of course and "You are making a smart buying decision" again, without using that phrase. Conveying they are "smart" and are doing the smart thing.



      Question if you don't mind please.. How would that make a difference, if any at all?
      No idea who you were asking....but...

      In my pitch, I make references to several previous purchases for training that I made...and that they made...that gave great value and results. It is implied that "buying training from Claude" is also the next smart move.

      As in all selling, always praise any previous buying decision. Always. Because buying is good...not buying is bad.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        No idea who you were asking....but...
        I'll have you know that you are the only person I talk to on this forum sir. So, when Jeffery speaks, Claude listens.

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        In my pitch, I make references to several previous purchases for training that I made...and that they made...that gave great value and results. It is implied that "buying training from Claude" is also the next smart move.

        As in all selling, always praise any previous buying decision. Always. Because buying is good...not buying is bad.
        I thank you kindly.
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        In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    You've got to position yourself as an expert in your field.

    --------------------

    I found a product that could be drop-shipped. Didn't have to pay for it until I sold it.

    Wrote a letter to sell it.

    It bombed. Rewrote it again and again.

    Eventually, I discovered some secrets and sales started increasing.

    Made $1,294,381.45 off the offer eventually.

    Tried a second offer. Sales were slow but not as slow as the first product. Eventually got it right and ended up making $79,583.01.

    Third offer took off great because I used what I had discovered from the first two. Made $83,382.14 in 24 hours.

    I can take about any product now and make money from it.

    I enjoy the thrill of writing something and making a boatload of money off of it. I had three customers but Larry did so good from the letters I wrote for him he retired last week. Now I have an opening.

    Since I have an opening now I can take your product and sell it off the shelves.

    Contact me if you're interested.

    ----------------------

    Once you can take your own product and sell it for crazy profits, you can take someone else's product and do the same.

    A successful track record brings you customers.

    If you can't sell your own product, how are you going to sell someone elses?

    Are you going to use their money to practice?

    Most business owners aren't going to throw money at you so you can try and figure out what it takes to be good.

    The above sample letter is something anyone of you can write to a perspective customer.

    You can start selling your own product today and depending how quick it takes you to get up to speed, you can not only be rolling in some serious dough but if your thing is writing letters for others, you can have a seriously good portfolio to use.

    You'll get to the point where you talk to customers with your head held high and a serious swagger to your walk. You'll have the confidence you can sell what you want when you want. You'll fear no customer and not give a crap if they don't want to use you for what you want them to pay.

    You'll be a money-making machine.
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  • Wanna know what is the worst thing evah?

    It is like there is all kindsa stuff gowin' on which mebbe you wanna roll on along with -- but you way more mortal than you figured.

    Which is why showin' up anyplace aftah all kindsa actschwaan been crackin' off in your absence prompts conflictin' feelings as could summon a zaaahmbie blancmange to manifest before the entire Cosmos an' say, "uhm ... so what next? Am I devouring ... or getting ladled onto tongues with the finest silverware?"

    So I catchin' up here, like mayo wants to squirt around evryplace zaps back to a homesy kinda burgah.

    All I know from a presentational stance is how the internet has maxed up stanshlness of presention.

    Which is why we all subsistin' on gloryholes packin' evah chewier offers ... steada walkin' out the clear & present door jus' inches from our ass an' sniffin' sweet on Reykjavik tyoolips -- or whereveah it is that famous lip balm is from.

    Gotta wonder what happened back in the day, when solootions to evry available problem weren't the only ishoo you had.

    Tellya, them 658BC gals woulda KILLED for atmosphere-destroyin' CFC spray kept the weevils offa their dinkiest underwear.

    Here in 2020, we deluged with noplace choice gonna take a frickin' lifetime to actschwly WANT.

    How many panties an' bras I gotta sort through now till I figure how best to sustain my crack-career-comfort-color AXIS to the max?

    Curse you goddamn ONLINE STORES!
    An' your ubiquitous DRAIN MY PURSE DRY promo!

    To Helga from Vikingsgaard, anythin' I got in my closet rn is either sumthin' to throw on the fire, mebbe a sling to hurl rocks at rabbits, or if'n she ill with HEIMDALL FLU, yeah, she can barf her snot into my gusset with zero clue 'bout dissin' no classy fashwaahn house bcs hey what is not to love 'bout violent rampagin' an' 7,574 words for it's raining, it's cold, it's thundering, it's clearly not a sling so maybe I should boil it up with a horse's head and garnish with turnips, if only to hope for a momentary smile on the face of my beloved Slayer Of All?

    On the plus side, we bein' educated daily 'bout the klutzbrain negatives of 24/7 on demand whatevah.

    So I figure we at a cool kinda historical epoch pullin' in a whole buncha souls whose eagle eyes on all this stuff ain't gonna last.

    Where once, nowan got no internet, soon hoomans will exist don't know nuthin' else.

    That's why I would wanna consider my life a kinda historic hinnyhole, wherein I straddle a real major shift of perception an' actschwaan in an ad-friendly BEFORE & AFTER capacity as a kinda VOYEUR.

    Same as evrywan postin' here.

    Is that where we at rn?

    Eternal sameness manifested as difference?

    Or eternal difference manifested as same?

    Hey, plus -- who cares?

    What matters in 2020 anyways -- an' to whom?
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    I find it a bit tiresome that we have people right here on the forum who for years taught people how to prospect by phone...and yet it seems easier to talk about outside experts as if they are somehow better.

    There is plenty of useful advice right here, if someone is willing to use the search feature.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      I find it a bit tiresome that we have people right here on the forum who for years taught people how to prospect by phone...and yet it seems easier to talk about outside experts as if they are somehow better.

      There is plenty of useful advice right here, if someone is willing to use the search feature.

      Agreed.


      Along that same line, I also find it tiresome that we have Marketplace Sellers (Not You) that never participate in any discussion and in some of their threads in the Marketplace never answer a prospects question(s) about the offer.
      Signature
      In the minute it took me to write this post.. someone died of Covid 19. RIP.
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