New Warrior Special Offer (WSO) Rules

by 370 replies
Hi everyone,

We have decided to completely rewrite the rules for our Warrior Special Offer marketplace. We are focusing on building a high quality marketplace with special deals for our community that can not be found elsewhere.

Please make sure you read all of the new rules before posting your WSO. All new offers will be moderated based on these new rules.

Some notable changes include:

Rule #3: Free Offers

If your product is free, then this is to be posted in the Warrior Forum Classified Ads sub-forum.

Rule #16: Buy Buttons Must Be Present

To sell a WSO in the WSO Section of the forum, your offer must have a Buy Button that takes the user to a checkout. This link cannot take the user to your website, an order form or an opt-in page.

This rule does not apply to other sections, such as Warriors for Hire or Classified Ads.

Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

Sellers that make income claims may be asked to provide proof of income prior to their offer being approved. Sellers are strictly prohibited from offering income guarantees. This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community.

Rule #23: Warrior Forum trademark

Sellers are not to use the Warrior Forum logo, branding or name in their sales copy. The name of your product should not imply that the product is affiliated with the Warrior Forum in any way.

Examples include using the Warrior Forum logo in sales copy or including the word "Warrior" in the product title.
#warrior forum news #offer #rules #special #warrior #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Alaister View Post


    Rule #23: Warrior Forum trademark

    Sellers are not to use the Warrior Forum logo, branding or name in their sales copy. The name of your product should not imply that the product is affiliated with the Warrior Forum in any way.

    Examples include using the Warrior Forum logo in sales copy or including the word "Warrior" in the product title.
    Please clarify concerning the Warrior Forum's High Voltage Video Forum.
    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Please clarify concerning the Warrior Forum's High Voltage Video Forum.
      Hi Kurt,

      These rules apply to the WSO marketplace forums. The purpose of Rule #23 is to prevent people from misleading buyers by using the Warrior Forum name.

      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Good stuff and congrats on doing this so swiftly Alaister.

      I think we could do with some clarification on the "may" part of the above rule. As in the circumstances where proof is more likely to be asked for and where it is less likely to be asked for. Also what kind of proof - given that screen shots of bank accounts etc are notorious in MMO offers and often fake.
      Hi Mike,

      In regards to this we'll be judging the quality of the offers and focusing on presenting value to the community. If there is a great product and offer where the seller does provide income claims we'll ask them for some sort of proof in order to verify it and protect buyers as much as possible.

      At times income claims when backed up with proof is important when trying to sell certain products.

      In terms of the actual proof, the onus is on the seller to provide sufficient evidence for the offer to be approved. As you mentioned screenshots can be faked so we'll definitely be looking at them closely. When we do decide to approve an offer with an income claim, we'll clearly state the sort of proof that was provided by the seller and it's still up to the buyer whether they want to proceed to purchase or not.

      The point of this is to prevent sellers trying to artificially generate hype around their product with unverified or even falsified claims. Income guarantees or promises of any sort will not be allowed. An example of this would be a headline like "How you can make $10,000+ in the next 7 days".
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Alaister View Post


    Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

    Sellers that make income claims may be asked to provide proof of income prior to their offer being approved.
    Good stuff and congrats on doing this so swiftly Alaister.

    I think we could do with some clarification on the "may" part of the above rule. As in the circumstances where proof is more likely to be asked for and where it is less likely to be asked for. Also what kind of proof - given that screen shots of bank accounts etc are notorious in MMO offers and often fake.
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Regarding #10 - paid video testimonials, does that include written ones as well?

    Last week there was a mention that blind offers were disallowed but I didn't see anything where that was mentioned. I know that it will be hard to explain offers in some cases without giving the secret/process away, but in many cases of blind copy the results are not good because the buyers get something they would never have bought if they had known.

    Mark
    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Regarding #10 - paid video testimonials, does that include written ones as well?

      Last week there was a mention that blind offers were disallowed but I didn't see anything where that was mentioned. I know that it will be hard to explain offers in some cases without giving the secret/process away, but in many cases of blind copy the results are not good because the buyers get something they would never have bought if they had known.

      Mark
      Hi Mark,

      Yeh this is a good point. This rule will apply to both written and video testimonials. I'll make the change now.

      Blind ads are addressed in rule #20.

      Rule #20: No Blind Ads

      Sellers must not post blind ads. This is an ad where you advise what the product is not rather than what it is. Your product should be clearly understood by both moderators and members.
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Rule #7: No File Sharing

    If you have purchased a product, you are not permitted to share, reproduce or sell the product, or part thereof, without the seller’s explicit consent.
    One of the reasons Allen previously recommended to NOT give out review copies is because they wound up being shared. So maybe this also needs to include products received as a review?

    Of course, it's hard to track these things down but it wouldn't be good for some know-it-all to claim the WF doesn't have a rule against sharing review copies - only paid copies.

    Mark
    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      One of the reasons Allen previously recommended to NOT give out review copies is because they wound up being shared. So maybe this also needs to include products received as a review?

      Of course, it's hard to track these things down but it wouldn't be good for some know-it-all to claim the WF doesn't have a rule against sharing review copies - only paid copies.

      Mark
      Yeh this rule definitely applies to review copies also. I'll edit that now.
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Some very positive changes. Thanks.
  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Can one use the acronym WSO in one's product title?
    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by barbling View Post

      Can one use the acronym WSO in one's product title?
      In most cases this won't be allowed, however each offer will be assessed on a case by case basis.
  • Profile picture of the author jkennedy
    Great changes! Two questions:

    1. If we already have some free WSOs out there, do we need to either add a buy button (with a price) or do we need to pay the $20 for re-listing in classifieds.. or do you guys plan to move all free WSOs to their proper sub forum?

    2. Some of the clearly defined previous text was removed in that WSO products must be created by the seller or a partner of the seller and are 100% unique to the seller. The way it reads now someone could argue that they edited some PLR to "make it their own". I just thought this might could use some further clarification.
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    A standard classified ad is $20. It's $100 if you want it "pinned" at the top for a while.
    • Profile picture of the author jkennedy
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      A standard classified ad is $20. It's $100 if you want it "pinned" at the top for a while.
      Thanks, change reflected. Not sure how I did that haha.
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The purpose of Rule #23 is to prevent people from misleading buyers by using the Warrior Forum name.
      Does this mean no more "WSO of the Day", "WSO of the week/month/quarter", "named best WSO" ...etc? That has been deceptive for members here for quite some time.

      Some really positive changes in the new rules. It's obvious FL put a lot of thought into the new requirements and I think they'll help resurrect the WSO section.

      kay
  • Profile picture of the author danieljb
    1. If we already have some free WSOs out there, do we need to either add a buy button (with a price) or do we need to pay the $20 for re-listing in classifieds.. or do you guys plan to move all free WSOs to their proper sub forum?
    To remain in the WSO Marketplace the WSO must abide by all rules, including to be a paid offer and to have a buy button. In the coming weeks, free offers will be moved to the Classified Ads. Sellers do not need to pay a re-listing fee.

    2. Some of the clearly defined previous text was removed in that WSO products must be created by the seller or a partner of the seller and are 100% unique to the seller. The way it reads now someone could argue that they edited some PLR to "make it their own". I just thought this might could use some further clarification.
    This is part of the overarching Moderator's Discretion rule mentioned in the introduction, but we'll make this clearer. Such offers like you mentioned have no place in the WSO Marketplace. Where appropriate we'll ask the seller to provide a copy of the product for evaluation.

    Does this mean no more "WSO of the Day", "WSO of the week/month/quarter", "named best WSO" ...etc? That has been deceptive for members here for quite some time.
    Exactly right. The only time such "WSO of the {Day|Week|Month|Year|Decade}" can be used is when it has been awarded by the Warrior Forum. External parties are not authorised and have no place implying that we endorse a WSO that we have no affiliation with.

    Yes, I understand that. However, my question was about a specific situation concerning the WARRIOR FORUM High Voltage Video forum.

    The "letter" of the rule says calling it the WARRIOR FORUM would be against the rules. However, I believe the "intent" of the rule would be that it's OK to use "Warrior" since it is a Warrior Forum Forum....
    The Warrior Forum High Voltage Forum is part of the Warrior Forum and we don't consider it a WSO. In this example, you have nothing to worry about it and nothing that requires changing. Hope that this makes it clearer.

    By "looking at them closely" do you mean you'll visually inspect the actual screenshots closely to detect fraud, or something else?

    I ask because screenshots and videos can be faked in ways that are undetectable to visual inspection. There aren't many ways to provide proof I can think of that couldn't be easily faked, and of those I can think of, most aren't likely to be something many will want to do.
    We are being very strict with these. We'll inspect them all visually and where appropriate ask the seller for further proof. If the seller does not want to provide this proof then he or she will not be permitted to make the claim.

    We will be rolling these out to existing offers over the next few weeks, but they do apply to all new offers being submitted.
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by danieljb View Post


      The Warrior Forum High Voltage Forum is part of the Warrior Forum and we don't consider it a WSO. In this example, you have nothing to worry about it and nothing that requires changing. Hope that this makes it clearer.
      Actually, the High Voltage forum has a WSO thread. Part of the agreement I had with Allen was that the WSO would be bumped automatically, the same with the Kindle forum. However, when you guys took over, you removed the auto-bump for these two Warrior Forum WSOs.
    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by danieljb View Post

      Where appropriate we'll ask the seller to provide a copy of the product for evaluation.
      I'd be interested to know how a moderator who knows nothing about pay-per-click marketing, for example, will evaluate a product about that topic.

      The "pay-per-click" example could be anything (list building, SEO, video marketing, etc.). Are you going to have an expert in each topic on staff? Otherwise how can someone evaluate the quality of something they know nothing about?

      This raises another question. Suppose a moderator reviews a product and approves it. Can the seller say "moderator reviewed and approved" in his sales copy?
  • Profile picture of the author JNAssociates
    You saved the forums. Literally. These changes needed to be made. Bravo.
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I agree with Rus that putting a moderation note in any of the sales threads that the income claims have been "proven" when it is nigh impossible to really prove them, would be taken as an endorsement and should it turn out to be a dodgy offer that indeed, the income claims were not based in reality, the Warrior Forum would possibly have liability for providing that endorsement... or at the very least, look complicit or discredited.
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Truthfully if you want your verification of income claims to really mean something then NO ONE should get a free pass, every single income claim should be verified.
      Its the one part of the rules I see being ditched sooner or later or else it will have the unintended effect of continuing income claims without substantial barrier. I n a digital age there is no digital verification of income to a third non privy party. Theres probably already a guy /gal kicking out templates of multiple financial institution screens as we speak. Anything that relies on pixels to print or display can be made to look completely legit.

      However the whole issue of no income claims is slippery because MMO is in itself an income claim.You could say no specific income claim but I suspect there would be people in the copy writers section chomping at the bits to imply incomes with out being specific.
    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      There are others, but rule #17 is the biggie.

      I'd have said "No guarantees of income or specific results," to avoid the "Rank #1 in Google in 4 hours" stuff, but this is still an enormous jump forward.

      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I agree with Rus that putting a moderation note in any of the sales threads that the income claims have been "proven" when it is nigh impossible to really prove them, would be taken as an endorsement and should it turn out to be a dodgy offer that indeed, the income claims were not based in reality, the Warrior Forum would possibly have liability for providing that endorsement... or at the very least, look complicit or discredited.
      Agreed....

      The "slippery slope" comes in with any income claims....

      Here's why.....

      You'd have to use net income... or bottom line...

      Why?

      The seller says he "made" $500,000.......

      He may have $500,000 come in the front door.....

      But, he conveniently "forgets" the....

      $275,000 paid to affiliates.....
      $100,000 for paid traffic.....

      Plus, thousands in other expenses.....

      He may have $120,000 in net income...... while he says he "made" $500,000... That is a massive difference.

      In order to provide any remotely accurate income statements, it would take many, many hours of research and verification..... This would be similar to performing "Due Diligence" before buying a company.

      It would be simpler to go with "No guarantees of income or specific results" as Paul wrote.

      It is not a big deal if everyone is forced to follow the same rules.
  • Profile picture of the author azsno
    I thought FREE WSO's are being MOVED to the Classifieds Ad Section...

    I see MANY posts on the WSO Thread today that are "FREE"

    Some are "bumps" from existing and past WSO's, are these NOT being MOVED too?

    One person has 4 threads that are nothing more than sign up for my FREE Coaching program...

    I realize this process may take some time, but is there NOT a mechanism to MOVE existing threads to another Section? I've run a few forums and each had a feature where an administrator could MOVE existing threads...

    Anyway, I think the new changes are a GREAT move in the right direction...Thanks for taking the time to IMPROVE the Warrior WSO thread...

    ~AzSno...
  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Alaister,

    I am really impressed with the effort to clean things up.... Awesome work!

    Off the top of my head, there are several WSOs that fall into these categories...... What will become of these "old" WSOs? Will they be moved.... or deleted?


    Rule #5: WSO Approval Policy

    The following are examples of products that are not permitted to be sold as a WSO:
    - Mass Account Creators
    - E-Mail Harvesters
    - Lead Scrapers
    - Cookie Stuffing Scripts
    - Mass Automation Tools
    - SEO Spam Tools
    - Blog Commenting Tools
    - Wiki Poster Tools
    - Spamming Tools
    - Automation Bots
    - Forum Posting Tools
    - Classified Ad Posters


    If your WSO is any of the above, your offer will not be approved.
  • Profile picture of the author PaidAllDay
    I don't think anyone should have to prove net income that's a bit tough to determine. ClickBank has had these proof of income requirements for years and they just want screenshots to show proof that the money was made. Also you can't prove that it was made from the method shown.

    You could sell products as a vendor and then post it as affiliate income for example.

    Still these rules will stop people from just going to google images and grabbing income proof for their sales letter. Also, most launches are self hosted now so it's not like this will revolutionize our industry. It might make the WSO section a little more honest. Should stop the affiliate reviews posted in the WSO section for google rankings too.
    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by PaidAllDay View Post

      I don't think anyone should have to prove net income that's a bit tough to determine. ClickBank has had these proof of income requirements for years and they just want screenshots to show proof that the money was made. Also you can't prove that it was made from the method shown.

      You could sell products as a vendor and then post it as affiliate income for example.

      Still these rules will stop people from just going to google images and grabbing income proof for their sales letter. Also, most launches are self hosted now so it's not like this will revolutionize our industry. It might make the WSO section a little more honest. Should stop the affiliate reviews posted in the WSO section for google rankings too.
      From an Accounting perspective, net income is the only way.....

      If you were looking into buying a "real" business and they told you they "made" $500,000 a year, you wouldn't want to know their yearly expenses?

      It is the same with MMO methods....

      If the seller "makes" $50,000.... $35,000 goes to Affiliates.... $5,000 goes to paid traffic... The seller can say in his sales letter and other marketing materials he "made" $50,000?

      In MMO, that may make sense... In the "real" business world, everyone wants net income.
    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      [DELETED]
  • Profile picture of the author prakhargupta2113
    The following WSO was closed. Can you tell me what is wrong so that I can correct it.

    Code:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-special-offers/962409-get-0-00-per-website-click-facebook-like-lowest-price-internet-guaranteed-2.html
    Thank You.

    Or anybody that I can contact? Is it the title of the WSO or anything else? I have complied to all rules & it's been almost an year since this was up. But suddenly today it got closed.
  • Profile picture of the author danieljb
    Originally Posted by prakhargupta2113 View Post

    The following WSO was closed. Can you tell me what is wrong so that I can correct it.

    Thank You.

    Or anybody that I can contact? Is it the title of the WSO or anything else? I have complied to all rules & it's been almost an year since this was up. But suddenly today it got closed.
    I have sent you a PM about this with what needs to be changed. A member reported the offer because you are offering cashback in return for reviews; this has never been permitted.

    The Help Desk is the best point of contact for quick response: Freelancer.com - Powered by Kayako Help Desk Software

    Warrior Forum - The #1 Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace - Announcements in Forum : Warrior Special Offers

    Based on this, any use of "Warrior" is not allowed.
    This is correct. WSO listing must not attempt to imply affiliation or endorsement with the forum. The use of the term "Warrior" in the product title implies this. The only exception to this is when products are genuinely endorsed by the forum, such as we (the Warrior Forum) featured the WSO.

    Income claims update:

    Thank you all for your input regarding this.

    We have revised rule #17:

    Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

    Sellers are not to make claims around income that has been made unless this income can be verified through Warrior Payments. Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO. This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community.


    The only time income claims will be permitted is when in reference to a product being sold on Warrior Payments, as this is the only platform we can confirm accuracy.
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by danieljb View Post

      We have revised rule #17:

      Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees

      Sellers are not to make claims around income that has been made unless this income can be verified through Warrior Payments. Sellers are not permitted to make claims about or imply that income will result from purchasing a WSO. This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community.

      .
      Okay I am lost now. Unless you are defining an income claim as a specific income claim (in which case that should just say so) then that reads as if you are outlawing Make Money online offers on a predominantly Make Money online forum. How can ANY MMO product not be guilty of implying money will be made or income will be derived??

      Thats kind of going right into the territory that Rus and I were just discussing as financial suicide for this board. Either that or that new wording needs a whole lot more clarification .
    • Profile picture of the author JoeBradley
      While I understand that the Warrior Forum can not verify offers that have not been made through Warrior payments it is surely unbalanced and discriminatory for sellers not to be allowed to discuss income made outside the Warrior forum. I know that there has to be control and the current situation should not be allowed to continue but it needs to be done on an equal basis.

      While spurious income claims should be discouraged and as much as possible prevented, genuine offers with proof of income should be allowable even if payment was not made through Warrior payments, assuming sufficient proof is provided when challenged. Failure to allow these genuine offers air time is doing a dis-service not just to the promoters but also to people who would like to be made aware of them.

      From a legal standpoint, the Warrior Forum, even after checking claims to whatever extent practical should not endorse or confirm earnings even if the figures are available from Warrior payments and the forum should also include a statement on the offer pages stating that it does not endorse any income statements or other guarantees made by the promoter of the offer.
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Wait what?

    So my next WSO is how one can make money doing Google helpouts and that I've personally made 5K a month doing it.

    Please tell me how selling my WSO through the Warrior Payments platform helps any one verify my claim?

    All you can verify are the sales you've processed through the platform and that has nothing to do with my income claim.

    It doesn't and just like Dennis said, you'd have to actually have a WSO ABOUT making money with WSO's, which by the way I'm VERY MUCH against! For other reasons though, but yeah.
    • Profile picture of the author NetSensei
      While I share some of the same concerns expressed on this thread... I am also inclined to look at it from a different angle. WF no doubt has come to a point where income claims are expected and buyers are leery if none are presented.

      At the same time however, most are jaded and think that those very income claims are somehow faked. So while they expect them, they also feel frustration from not knowing if the claims are real or faked.

      I think it is possible that the WF not allowing most wso's to make income claims is an opportunity to get the buyers to look for other cues to help them understand if it is a good offer for them or not.

      It may cause some confusion and difficulty at first, but I think if it became the standard that it would not be long before the buyers would understand, that no claims are part of the rules of the forum.

      Then, both buyers and sellers could focus on other ways to show the prospects that the information is valuable and worth purchasing.

      As has been amply demonstrated in this thread and others, no matter what is done to verify, there are other variables that will let clever marketers get around the income verification.

      And even when the income proofs are real... they are still not a demonstration of how well it will help the buyer to get similar results.

      Case in point... someone makes a wso and they show their results. They are well known, with many products that they have sold, they have influence, perceived authority, contacts and experience.

      The buyer has none of those things, and they buy the product... follow all the steps and still fail to get hardly any or perhaps no results what so ever. Why? Because the experienced marketer sent an email to his list of affiliate and jv partners suggesting they promote it... some do and so the results are great.

      But the buyer follows all the steps, but is an unknown, has no list of buyers or affiliate partners and so their attempt is a complete failure.

      It is so easy for the experienced marketer to use proof of income... but that serves little real proof of the wso offering to be one that the buyer can succeed with.

      As marketers I think it is our responsibility to create products that can get results for the buyers. When we make such a product, then I believe that its value can be amply demonstrated in the sales thread without income claims. Income claims which under the best of circumstances are poor proof that it can or will be similarly successful for the buyer.

      Mark
  • Profile picture of the author luckyman2k
    Originally Posted by Alaister View Post


    Rule #16: Buy Buttons Must Be Present

    To sell a WSO in the WSO Section of the forum, your offer must have a Buy Button that takes the user to a checkout. This link cannot take the user to your website, an order form or an opt-in page.

    This rule does not apply to other sections, such as Warriors for Hire or Classified Ads.
    Hello

    One doubt. We are using 2checkout. Due to 2checkout Policy, we can sell from our website. We can't use There Buy Buttons any where else.

    My question is, how we can use 2checkout or Blue Snap to sell On WSO Section ?

    My request is, Please change this rule, "To sell a WSO in the WSO Section of the forum, your offer must have a Buy Button that takes the user to a checkout. "

    Thanks
  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    To be honest, I find the WSO Forum a lot harder to read than the others because of all the income claims. All those dollar signs and figures just make it look like a badly-formatted knitting pattern to me and it's more difficult to maintain my concentration if I'm looking for something specific - I often have to make a conscious effort to stop my mind from wandering. It's the entries without an income claim that stick out for me, possibly because I take one man's income claim about as seriously as the idea that two identical shops in different parts of town will be make the same amount of money and so am practically blind to any figures given.

    I realise I'm probably in the minority, but there is a small chance that some people might actually do better with their offers once the WSO forum stops looking like it's sinking under a tidal wave of competing dollar signs and comes across as a bit 'cleaner'.
    • Profile picture of the author GlenH
      Originally Posted by Diana Lane View Post

      To be honest, I find the WSO Forum a lot harder to read than the others because of all the income claims. All those dollar signs and figures just make it look like a badly-formatted knitting pattern to me and it's more difficult to maintain my concentration if I'm looking for something specific - I often have to make a conscious effort to stop my mind from wandering. It's the entries without an income claim that stick out for me, possibly because I take one man's income claim about as seriously as the idea that two identical shops in different parts of town will be make the same amount of money and so am practically blind to any figures given.
      I agree. Trying to read that WSO section today makes your head spin.

      I realise I'm probably in the minority, but there is a small chance that some people might actually do better with their offers once the WSO forum stops looking like it's sinking under a tidal wave of competing dollar signs and comes across as a bit 'cleaner'.
      Let's hope that's the case, because it's about as a bad as it can get now.
  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    I rarely come here any more, but was curious after receiving the email about the new rules. One of which, apparently, states no income claims in WSOs. I just went to the WSO forum and 3 of the first 10 products have income claims in their heading.

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