Paul Myers

Okay. That subject line should have done the trick.

Now... Do NOT post here asking people to invest in anything. Nothing. We've had too many complaints that those sorts of threads are pure scams, so we will simply ban anyone caught posting them.

No cash investment stuff. At all.

Do NOT invest with anyone who asks for money from you in this section. The most common "offers" are from people claiming to want you to "JV" with them in paid advertising, with guaranteed results, and people wanting to "partner" with you, and needing some investment to prove your seriousness.

If you spend money with those sorts of offers after this, it's on you. We can't do anything more than warn you that at least some of them are pure scams.

Also, if you get to the point with anyone where you feel that filing a dispute with Paypal is needed, do not back out of the dispute based on any sort of promise from the other party. That is most commonly followed by your being completely ignored, and left with little or no recourse.

We can (and will) ban them, but that isn't going to help you if you've lost money.

If you see anything that even looks like any of those offers, please use the little red triangle to the lower left of their post and report it.

Oh yeah... And no selling of solo ads or anything else here. That stuff belongs in the paid advertising sections.

Thank you. We now return you to your regularly scheduled chaos.


Paul

PS: Also... No more "blind ads." No "PM me and I'll tell you what it's about." If you can't outline the requirements and enough details to qualify people, don't post it here.

Paul Myers

Why the over the top thread title?

We have told people over and over about this stuff. We've used polite titles in the rules stickies, and done things in the "professional" way. Some of you still post these "offers," and others keep falling for them.

If it takes loud and obnoxious titles to keep a few people from throwing hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of dollars down the toilet, I'm okay with that.

Don't make the offers. Don't accept the offers. And don't encourage them by PMing them for info.


Paul

Whos That Guru

I agree like 99% man - on everything you said, minus the 'no investment at all' stuff - But I might just be misunderstanding the post. I wont lie, I've had a good bit to drink tonight.. lol

An awesome Warrior named Gail 'invested' (I guess you could call it) $20 in me long ago, and probably never expected to see that $ again.

But that $20 helped me expand in sooooo many ways.. I think I actually sent her that money back, along with a little extra, less than 24 hours later.

Sometimes (NOT all the time) - people have an awesome idea but they just can't afford to get it started at all, after paying bills/rent/food/bad habits (lol)

To be honest, her actions inspired me to start 'paying it forward' myself, so to speak.

Shortly after I paid her back, I started randomly donating pizzas to people in need, via Random Acts of Pizza.

Then I figured why stop at pizzas? I could also help some people who might have some good, solid plans, but just cant afford to make them happen.

Anyway.. I've had like 4 shots & 6 beers so far tonight, so I'll just stop here cuz I'll just keep going on & on & on & on... LOL

But not everyone is out to scam people.. Its a damn shame that there unfortunately ARE that many scammers out there, that it has ruined the trust/rep of all Warriors.

Paul Myers

Believe me. I know that. There are far more cool and helpful people here than even sketchy ones, much less scammers.

The problem is, those specific offers in this specific section of the forum have generated a TON of complaints, all with the same sad ending: People get taken for hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of dollars, with nothing to show for it but a hole in their pocket and a bad taste in their mouth.

Makes it tough for the folks who want to do something helpful, or who have ideas that need funding. But the scammers have made that an inadvisable direction for this space.


Paul

Whos That Guru

Speechless.. and its not because of you or this thread.

Its just sad to see so many people who really are out there scamming others in such a major way, that it can impact a community of like 500k+ users like that.

I don't blame you guys one bit tho, dont get me wrong.

Its just kinda disheartening to see.

bsbear

For reference:

I'm one of the guys that got scammed for $500. The guy (who won't be named, purely because there isn't any reason as he's banned now) spoke to me over skype, knew I was a student new to IM, talked to me about his kids, and then proceeded to take me for $500.

These guys will stop at nothing, after some digging I found multiple accounts he was using, fake info, fake paypal accounts that were verified with fake info, tons of websites based around his fake personas and much more.

Frankly, I realize this is on me, I was stupid enough to end the paypal dispute because he made me a promise over email to finally give me what was originally agreed upon.

So yeah, lesson learned.
Brandon

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Paul Myers

It's not that many. In fact, it may be just one or two. But they're persistent, and they create new accounts every time the old ones get banned.

They also work the system so they've got their posts at or near the top of the first page almost all of every day.

If you think it's disheartening to read posts like this, imagine what it's like reading the stories of the people who got taken, and realizing there isn't a bloody thing you can do to help them.


Paul

GuruGuna

Great idea but I also worry that it stops good people from gaining their chances. But thisis the world we all live in. The reality.

One more point I want to add - NEVER EVER SEND PAYMENT AS GIFT on PAYPAL. I paid one guy 250. Nice guy returned 300 in a few days. A few days later asked me to invest 500. Sure. Returned 650. Few days later asked me to invest again and this time a whooping 1000. Promised to return 1400. Crazy me and in my early days struggling to make that darn 1000 didn't realize that I am in a scam funnel. Spoke on skype and all. Asked me to send as gift to avoid PayPal charges. Me working hard for my money thought it would save a few $. So I did! Well that was the last I heard from him. Was devastated.

This fraud needs to stop. I support what you have done here. People first need to build relationships with others before they expect to make easy money. There aren't any easy money and if a fellow is making it, he ain't sharing it generously with you as I described my case above. Smarten up folks.

OK back to my drink now!

TheSeoGuy89

Wow that sucks man.

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xInd

It's really too bad that people do malicious things at all, and ruin things for others. Can't we just all get along? I've had success before investing in other people's projects, and made other people good profits covering costs of joint ventures I started up. I've had success with partnership projects that required investments of time, resources, and yes money too, from all both directions and all those involved in many different types of arrangements over the years. I've also had people leave me high and dry for up to even thousands of dollars I'd paid out, so I understand where you're coming from for sure. I even came close to getting screwed over bad quite recently, from somebody on a different forum, they registered my paypal account to an Ebay account without my consent or knowledge. I thought it was a legitimate business venture because I wasn't aware of this, and I insisted on many things that ensured it was legal and above board, a win win for every person involved. My terms were not met, and $3,000 was deposited into my paypal account I didn't authorize. I immediately called Paypal to have the money refunded, but not before my Paypal account was locked and flagged for fraud. Turns out Ebay doesn't require ANY verification for registering paypal addresses for sellers, which means ANYONE that knows your paypal email address can just have an auction payment sent to you without your consent. I cooperated with Paypal Corporate and helped them attempt to track this person down and prosecute them, because clearly they were trying to make off with some Ebayer's money and leave me legally liable for it. Glad I was careful and it was clear I refused any illegitimate activity and Paypal's management staff was quite pleased with my assistance, and very helpful to me. I still have to snail mail a formal complaint to Ebay to make them change their policies and require verification of all seller accounts payment details, was thinking about putting together a petition or encouraging other people to mail in as well. Anyone interested?

I never get my panties in a bunch about it the negative junk people try, I've been getting scams and phishing attempts in my inboxes since the 90's so I tend to see them a mile away and report them religiously. I've just always looked at it like poker. Business has always been like gambling, since before computers and the Internet came around. Protecting yourself and your interests is part of smart business, that's what contracts, lawyers and witnesses are for. I've also had people claim to be interested in investment opportunities, but in the end really they don't have any money, (or maybe they do) but all they are really after is your ideas and to waste your time, or take whatever else they can get from you. I'm all for anything that makes WF a better place, and safer for everyone. So even though I've been one of the people to post such threads, I'm glad to see this thread, I will support it 100% and do my part in reporting anything we're not allowed to do here. There are many places and ways to raise money for business ventures and anyone who's looking into fund raising for the right reasons knows that and is happy to pursue other means of funding.

I also just recently replied to a JV thread here where somebody was offering to set people up and train them flipping websites, which is what I'm doing for a living now, but I'm rather new at specifically. Seemed like a great offer, until they replied by email, asked for me to ONLY email them, and showed a screenshot of website stats that were sitting right in adobe so they clearly faked the numbers, offering to teach everything, share the profits... oh and of course share the costs.. With an offer to buy back the website should I decide to do something else, that was another flag for me, because they were claiming making tens of thousands of dollars off single websites with access to investors and buyers... If they already had investors and buyers, why would they buy back a website instead of getting a buyer for it??? Be ware of people that want to keep communications away from public and monitored areas, by taking it off the WF they were reducing their tracks and my ability to report them. I mean c'mon, you don't have enough time to go to WF? I'm auto logged in in my browser, and I get PM notifications to my email. It's one click to get in the PM box and type the reply, it doesn't take up more time and there's no need to hide in email!


@Paul Myers - Thank you for the attention grabbing thread title. I've been around these forums so long that I forget about little things here and there, especially when I see it all around me which makes it seem acceptable and this is a good reminder to go re-read rules and sticky's every now and then. Much appreciated.

Edit: Hmmmm..... After I was done in this thread here, I noticed right away, basically the opposite of what we're talking about, a thread offering to invest in other warriors. Are we still allowed to post threads like that? I've done things like that in the past where I've helped newbies get setup, and it's always been very rewarding

newfriends

Thank you for blocking people asking to invest in anything this can defiantly create scams. Thank you.

George Wright

Paul,

You just did help them. At least the future "Them."

Thanks,

George Wright

ichimoku

I think I have recently been a victim of a scam from someone in the JV section. I will wait a few days until I post as he is still an active member.

Its all my fault I admit, they are very clever though, I thought I was good at spotting scams, but I think I have just been cleaned out of $500

Ill make a thread about it on Sat to warn others, also with the detail of the scam and how he conned me, this may help others not make the mistake I made.

Also on a positive note, I have met a lot of great and helpful people on this forum so far, so the positives far out weight the negatives. Its just a shame some people want to rip people off...

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hmpargi

You are absolutely correct. But then what about join venture. joint venture is issue of working togther.. as both investor and creator.. or one investor cum creator. I do not see why we do not have such investment forum on the board.. where people present there idea and if people like them... then they do invest. if they got scammed we can always make them aware... invest at their own risk. because lot of Enterprise who is starting there idea.. needs funding. .as i believe they dont have it. So personally i suggest there should be room for people who seeks investors by presenting there golden ideas

Paul Myers

xInd,If you're offering to put up money in a partnership, yes. The "We'll sponsor your WSO" offers are one common form of that.

Caution is to be advised there, too. That's true of any business venture, obviously. We can be reasonably confident, though, that someone looking for places to invest isn't going to be seriously hurt if a small investment doesn't work out.

newfriends,Ken Strong posted that rule back in February. Only a few people paid any attention to it. And only one has been regularly reporting the violations. (Thank you, sir!)

ichimoku,

Do not post anything publicly that would identify the username. It often happens that what one person claims to be a scam is actually a miscommunication or other simple mistake.

If the person is still a member, PM the details to me, please.


Paul

ichimoku

Ok Paul will do

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northernbird

OK, I understand the warning, but I don't understand the concept of a JV in the IM world. Seems to me, in a JV in the business world, one person is the idea man and one person is the money man. Is that not the way a JV works in the real world?

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
~ I'll either find a way or make one

Paul Myers

A joint venture can be any partnership where two or more people bring various resources together to complete something none of them could - or perhaps want to - do on their own. They share in the effort/investment and in the profits.

Disallowing investment requests here is based on a simple fact: We've had some absolute scumbags in here actively scamming the members for cash, on the premise that they (the members) were investing in various "sure things."

We've also had some folks offering deals that may or may not have been planned as scams, but ended up badly on a consistent basis. Not precisely the same, but the end result wasn't any better.

It's over.


Paul

northernbird

Okay, got it. Thanks!

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
~ I'll either find a way or make one

JawadAshraf

Sorry to say hear that Brandon, You know what? He Marc (Fake Name) scammed me too for $400 and I think many more people here are from the forum who got scammed from him. I have traced his phone and address by using a reserve lookup phone service and we have warned him that we are going to call police if you didn't refund us. I am waiting for his reply, let's see what he says...

Hope for the best anyway!.

laurencewins

It's good to see Paul trying to prevent at least some of the scammers from robbing people. There are too many out there. A rusty razor blade and castration come to mind when I think of those types of people.

Laurence
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zicer

Great post. I hope beginners will read it. I was scammed before and i know how quick you can get lost in IM jungle and feel that all this income proofs are fake. Get scammed few times and you start thinking there is no money in IM, it's just fairytale... BUT when you started the right way with right people and positive atmosphere, you can succeed.
So thank you for this Paul. And i would ask other members to spread word about this post on this forum to all beginners and other members.

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daknowles53

I loved the over the top thread title...lol...woke me up. Reiterates the need for these kinds of titles. I think I've read some of your stuff over the years and you always make a lot of sense. Keep up the good work.

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ThePhantom

Thankyou
This should help as a warning for newbies.

I may seem new but I have been around for a long while as a silent reader, and I have seen too many scams getting posted everyday...

Webinaut

Paul,
As a beginner, I must thank you for a really helpful thread.
I recently went to my first IM seminar and sensed that one or two of the presentations were "too good to be true" (I have been in business for 30+ years and have developed a bit of an instinct). I promised myself beforehand that I would buy nothing until I had "slept on it". When I checked out the individuals I had misgivings about by Googling "Joe Bloggs Scam", a page or two of forum posts by people who had been burnt came up.
This is disappointing because IM is such an exciting opportunity.
What would you advise people to do to protect themselves against the scammers?
And, how do you recommend a good JV transaction should work, mechanically? i.e. collecting money, payment mechanics between JV partners, etc
Thanks again.

Paul Myers

First, I'd recommend being very careful about believing what you read, good or bad. I've seen some absolutely amazing lies told under the guise of "protecting" others, and equally amazing lies told in sales copy.

Some basic stuff to consider...

Ask questions if you're not clear on what the offer involves, or what additional resources may be required to make it work.

Blind ads might be okay for an impulse product, but never for a joint venture. If someone says "You'll make $XYZ. PM me for details," and they don't actually tell you what you're going to need to do for that money, don't waste your time on it. That is almost always a bad sign.

Assess your own knowledge and experience honestly. Do you have the skills and resources needed to use what's being sold?

Does the offer make sense for both parties?

Do they promise specific results? If so, you should probably bail. Especially if they promise huge results for people with little or no experience.

Determine if the offer is within your risk range. If the whole thing went bad, what effect would it have on you? We all know, even the most honest and legitimate transactions can go sideways under some circumstances. If that happens, is it a mild disappointment, a minor loss, a major loss, or a disaster?

That's a big one. You probably know that, but a lot of people getting into online business don't stop to think about it. They assume everything will work out, and they're just not prepared for what's involved.

And that's the biggest thing to think about. Do you have the necessary information and experience to assess the risks and potential reqards properly? If not, learn more before taking the leap.

That's not everything, obviously. Just the basics that come to mind at the moment.


Paul

andyteoh18

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the honest post! Appreciated you have told all the warriors here!

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Webinaut

Many thanks, Paul. Greatly appreciated.

A quick newbie question:
I see "thanked" stats adjacent to posts. Are these derived from post contents or is there a clickable button?

Paul Myers

Webinaut,

There's a button that shows up after you hit 5 or more posts, I think. It will be at the lower right of each post.


Paul

Paul Barrs

OK, Paul has made his point - and done it well, btw. So you have been warned... DON'T INVEST MONEY!

But if you DO because it's just such a damn good offer, this is all I have for you -


Of course if you're so damn gullible that you just can't help yourself and you don't understand what this whole thread is about and some tool sells you a friggin BRIDGE!

This is what Paul and I will be doing together -

ichimoku

I have been scammed by him too, can we talk on Skype. I am currently looking to take legal action against him.

Thanks

Let ME show YOU the secrets of the Worlds most Advanced Trading Indicator ichimoku

wizozz

Shoot, I was thinking about a few projects to maybe find an investing partner here... But still, I understand the reasoning behind such rules... I just wish there was a way to differentiate between legitimate offers and scammers, so that legit offers still could be posted, while scams could be avoided...

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Kristabelle

Love the heading!. you should be a copy writer!.

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hmpargi

Hello Paul,
I am not sure if this is related and allowed or not. Yes I am internet marketer as well as currency trader. Lets say I provide service like fund manager, managing funds for investors. where an investors opens account on his name to certain broker, invest and he is all authority to deposit and withdraw and i am only the trader who can trade his money for more profits if profits hppnss we share. is that joint venture... you will called is that allowed even if its not directly related to internet marketing.

Yes my question is off the topic to IM. but still want to know from you. so if i do something like this here i wont be in trouble and if its not allowed i will not. between i am reputed trader, and analysist on many big sites. but i am way before IM here.. so just let me know what u think

thanks

Paul Myers

hmpargi,

I don't think allowing ads for a broker/trader here is a good idea.


Paul

Nicholas Ferrante

I hate scammers, but that's life.. they have to ruin it for everyone, but like he said you have to be responsible for your own actions wither that is believing in a potential scam o not, hope fully what ever you do, works out for you.

iron1

Nice! Thanks Paul, very well thought out intelligent, responsible thread you got here. Glad your one of the good guys!

Anthony Horne

ajointventure

A quick question for Paul

Is there a moderator willing to accept a PM outlining a JV offer for consideration? I have what I think is a great proposition for someone (absolutely no money is asked for). However, the wording of the post could be misconstrued and I’m not willing to get banned from this forum because a moderator doesn’t understand the concept of my offer. Just wondering if there is a remedy that is workable for both sides.

This post is specifically meant to address the JV threads where members are asking for money, so I believe the question is valid here.
Hope I’m not offending anyone here!

tsx

Thank you for this Paul.

PrestonSr

Its weird that the scammers have their art so well, why did they fail to master Internet Marketing or other professions since they are so witty.

Thank you for this post Paul

Paul Myers

Nope. I'm the only one handling approvals in this section at the moment, and I've listed the rules pretty clearly. If you post something that doesn't fit them, or that's just not a JV, I won't approve it.

You are very unlikely to be banned for posting something that doesn't get approved, unless you're trying to sell email lists or something like that.

That said, you don't have enough posts to get anything approved in this section at this point, no matter what the offer might be.


Paul

ajointventure

Nuff said!

Thanks

solarwarrior

Actually the subject line doesn't draw me in, it is the author who do.

Anyway great job, I fell for one and almost lose 3k but paypal got it back for me...

tagiscom

Yep, been scammed recently!

But, thankfully it was only $30!

He wouldn't show his results, saying that they could be faked.

And kept using words like internet lifestyle, and the classic one, that l am a decent person that usually doesn't do WSO,s, but because of the economy, will do this!

In the end he disappeared, and his PayPal account got frozen pending a review of some kind.

Initially everyone including me was enthusiastic about it, because it looked plausible, but after 2 months, that was that.

I had also researched this thoroughly, and he was squeaky clean.

But two months later after following the system to the letter, and getting crap results, l researched to of his members that gave positive testimonials, and there attempts with this system almost a year later, was just as non-inspiring as my results were.

So, if you see something that seems true good to be true, then research the testimonial writers as well!

Shane

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mattjay

This thread has lots of useful info in it. Do your part and take a look around the jv section and if you find any old threads that are bumped, report them. Don't let these scams continue. It just costs too much money

cathyanderson

Thank you so much for this much needed lesson. We forget sometimes and we end up paying dearly for it. Thanks to all who also told their experiences here. We really need to listen and be very mindful of what people are asking us to do.
Thanks again,
Cathy

mattjay

Still happening today, right now. ANY thread that is asking for ANY investment FOR ANYTHING should be reported immediately. The mods are very mindful of how people are gaming the JV forum. Make sure you do your part and make them aware of any issues. They are nothing if not very helpful

Anthony11690

Just had a thread removed and have no clue why. Did not ask for an investment and was completely open to all questions.

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mattjay

I can answer that for you I tried to on the thread for you...

I asked you if you were listing your brokering service for free. You said you were not. The jv forum is NOT for listing ANY product or service for ANY amount of money, so in doing so, it was removed. If you want to offer brokering services as a service, you will need to post that ad in the classified, warrior for hire, or wso sections. Since you wanted money, or some money, for what you were offering, under the new guidelines it was not allowed,
hope it makes sense...I wish you good luck.

Anthony11690

Makes perfect sense! Sorry for that.

Just one question though,

I wasn't doing it for free, I was asking for a % to broker the website.
Aren't all JV here asking for money in the end, a % of money from the venture?
I wasn't asking for anything upfront.

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