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;) Why Mystify Intelligence? It's Not Magic. It's Mechanics. :D

by Marx Vergel Melencio
12 replies
We've all seen it. Someone starts talking about "true intelligence" as if it's a gift handed down by Zeus himself. When people talk about a mystified definition of intelligence, they're usually calling out the habit of treating a brain like a crystal ball instead of a processor.

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The "Black Box" Problem
To mystify intelligence is to wrap it in enough incense and "vibes" that you don't have to explain how it actually works. It's the ultimate intellectual "get out of jail free" card.

The Logic: "If we mystify it, then..."
When someone drops this line, they're usually pointing out the inevitable train wreck that follows:
  • The AI Cop-Out: "Computers can't be smart because they don't have a soul." (Translation: I don't understand silicon, so I'm invoking ghosts.)
  • The Genius Myth: We pretend success is a result of an "ineffable spark" rather than 10,000 hours and a decent Wi-Fi connection. It makes for better bios, but worse business models.
  • The Measurement Void: If it's mystical, you can't measure it. And if you can't measure it, you can't optimize it. Great for gurus; bad for everyone else.

The Reality Check: Mystification is just a fancy word for "I've stopped looking for the instructions, so I'm calling it a miracle."
The Breakdown

The Grounded View: Source is neural pathways and logic. Scaling comes through hard work and better data. AI is just a predictable tool.

The Mystified View: Source is stardust and destiny. Scaling is "you either have it or you don't." AI is a threat to our "human specialness."

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Are we trying to actually build something here, or are we just waiting for a muse to show up and do the work for us?
#definition #intelligence #mystified #why not
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

    We've all seen it. Someone starts talking about "true intelligence" as if it's a gift handed down by Zeus himself. When people talk about a mystified definition of intelligence, they're usually calling out the habit of treating a brain like a crystal ball instead of a processor.

    ---

    The "Black Box" Problem
    To mystify intelligence is to wrap it in enough incense and "vibes" that you don't have to explain how it actually works. It's the ultimate intellectual "get out of jail free" card.

    The Logic: "If we mystify it, then..."
    When someone drops this line, they're usually pointing out the inevitable train wreck that follows:
    • The AI Cop-Out: "Computers can't be smart because they don't have a soul." (Translation: I don't understand silicon, so I'm invoking ghosts.)
    • The Genius Myth: We pretend success is a result of an "ineffable spark" rather than 10,000 hours and a decent Wi-Fi connection. It makes for better bios, but worse business models.
    • The Measurement Void: If it's mystical, you can't measure it. And if you can't measure it, you can't optimize it. Great for gurus; bad for everyone else.

    The Breakdown

    The Grounded View: Source is neural pathways and logic. Scaling comes through hard work and better data. AI is just a predictable tool.

    The Mystified View: Source is stardust and destiny. Scaling is "you either have it or you don't." AI is a threat to our "human specialness."

    ---

    Are we trying to actually build something here, or are we just waiting for a muse to show up and do the work for us?
    So let's suppose "The Grounded View" bombs to death in a void.

    Far as Mortalkind Version #Now is concerned, that is jus' Cosmossez spin-out-forevah plans / inevitabyools in actschwaahn.

    Much to the detriment of Us.

    Mystified says: if'n you eithah have it or you don't, why cast your conundrum at the feet of intrinsically IDGAF sealstims?

    I huppresheeate you gaht grand schemes in mind, propulsive smarts to back you up on yr journey from birth inta eithah 'Glow of Eternal' or 'Yurps, that's it, babes.'

    But I would wish to say this is naht for Moi, always.

    As a natchrl princess inhabitin' breathin space beyond all artifice.

    Process is cool.

    Gits sh*t done.

    But .. what sh*t?

    & for what poorpoise?

    What AI promise would ever serve a creature with zero momentum?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kosmalll
      Sounds very metaphorical. But in simple terms, AI/system is just a tool. Without a goal or intent, it doesn't really "serve" or solve anything on its own.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      So let's suppose "The Grounded View" bombs to death in a void.

      Far as Mortalkind Version #Now is concerned, that is jus' Cosmossez spin-out-forevah plans / inevitabyools in actschwaahn.

      Much to the detriment of Us.

      Mystified says: if'n you eithah have it or you don't, why cast your conundrum at the feet of intrinsically IDGAF sealstims?

      I huppresheeate you gaht grand schemes in mind, propulsive smarts to back you up on yr journey from birth inta eithah 'Glow of Eternal' or 'Yurps, that's it, babes.'

      But I would wish to say this is naht for Moi, always.

      As a natchrl princess inhabitin' breathin space beyond all artifice.

      Process is cool.

      Gits sh*t done.

      But .. what sh*t?

      & for what poorpoise?

      What AI promise would ever serve a creature with zero momentum?
      You nailed it. That is the exact core of the "mechanics" argument, and you are spot on.
      • When you strip away the mysticism, intelligence isn't defined by what a system can't do, nor is it defined by a dormant potential or a silent "soul" sitting in a room doing nothing.
      • Intelligence, the way I see it, is an active, measurable function. It's defined by the processing of inputs to generate specific, intentional outputs--or as you perfectly put it, it is measured by the actions it actually makes.

      But I think we're talking past each other a bit. We're probably looking at two different sides of the exact same coin, like:

      • One camp's defining intelligence by its capability to execute. If a system takes data, calculates the best path, and executes a precise action to solve a problem, that, for me, is intelligence. It can be measured, optimized, and proven.
      • The other camp's probably looking at the spark that triggers the execution; saying "Sure, the machine can execute the action perfectly, but if it doesn't want to do it on its own, is it truly intelligent, or is it just a very complex reflex?"

      :O Though if we agree to point out that intelligence is measured by actions, we effectively pull the rug out from under the "mystic" crowd. If a guru claims to have a "divine, un-measurable intelligence" but never actually takes any successful action, then by any logical metric, they aren't intelligent--they're just loud.
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      • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
        Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post

        You nailed it.
        Yanno, that is so rare.

        'Part from Huffew people here, most evrywan figures I a moron/ditz.

        Prahblem I gaht now is figurin' what you jus' said I nailed.

        So may we speak flahpout Yogah for a second?

        Here is where mystical magic an' observable mechanics mix out sweetest of all.

        You gaht an absurdly animatabyool stuckchah (mechanics) maxin' out on dowin' nuthin' more pertickuler than honorin' its owin choice to do zilchow (hmm ... mysterious) ...

        as heavens collide, world leadahs fight, an' weirdsy insects planetwide proliferate & die in unobserved abundance.

        The mystical tradition mebbe ovahplayed rn c/o touchpoint crystals an' loon pants give hung guys room to swing like they nekkid.

        Yet still there is *sparky* if'n nowan wanna reach out an' touch it.

        For everything else, there is Mechanicalkind.
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        • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
          It is always refreshing to see a highly technical thread seamlessly transition from neural pathway execution to an analysis of loose-fitting trousers and the life cycles of unobserved insects.

          Your point about an animated structure choosing absolute stillness is an elegant way to describe what we in AI development call a "null input error." It's a fascinating state of being, but notoriously difficult to monetize or scale in a business model.

          While Sparkykind continues to honor its internal choice to remain a dormant reflex beyond all artifice, Mechanicalkind will remain down here in the mud, processing data, executing code, and ensuring the servers don't also decide to practice yoga. Someone has to keep the Wi-Fi running. :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
            Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post


            Your point about an animated structure choosing absolute stillness is an elegant way to describe what we in AI development call a "null input error."
            Ha!

            I may deploy this term in fyootyoore sitchywayshwaahns where my intrinsic vacuousness is called inta question by sumone gaht no cloo what they talkin' 'bout.

            Zample #1:

            Princess is signing autographs at a school for reformed delinquents.
            Some slobber, but most refrain from attempting to stab her.

            "So ... are you a REAL Princess, or a figment of my imagination?"

            For sure, the kid is tryin'. An' it is trooly soul-destroyin' to be asked this question again.

            "For sure I'm real," I reply. "The distictshwaahn buttween fact an' fickschwaan is a null input errah only when you don't ask, or I ain't here."

            Zample #2:

            It is Crap Zucchini Day in the store.

            Evrythin' they gaht is eithah withered, too bendy, or rotted from within by weevils.

            So I say to the store guy: when you gettin' sum deesint zucchini in? So's we can all shahp out fulla retail mwah mwah mwah?

            "Gonna be tomorrow now," says the store guy. "But I see you're concerned about a product you love. So what say you get 40% off every zucchini you buy today? 50% if you take everything?"

            *Princess pauses, knowin' she gaht backup.*

            "Janno, that is kinda a null input errah bcs I jus' wanna smackya in the tits for pruzzoomin' Moi to be no clown."

            I close here?

            Or so far from view it is bettah I descended inta muh own speshl Abyss?

            (Actschlly, don't ansa that. I reserve this kinda scathin' analysis for Mom. An' she should know bettah than anywan how I don't evah lissin anyways.)
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            • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
              I must warn you, deploying "Null Input Error" in the wild to justify ignoring your mom or threatening produce vendors is a highly volatile use case. We haven't beta-tested that yet though ...

              ** If Mechanicalkind ever invents an AI that can handle the sheer, unbridled logic of "Crap Zucchini Day," I'll make sure you get the first license. Until then, please keep your momentum at absolute zero. It's safer for the store guys.
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              • Chief Machine Learning Engineer @ ARIA Research (Sydney, AU)
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              • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
                Originally Posted by Marx Vergel Melencio View Post


                ** If Mechanicalkind ever invents an AI that can handle the sheer, unbridled logic of "Crap Zucchini Day," I'll make sure you get the first license. Until then, please keep your momentum at absolute zero. It's safer for the store guys.
                You're right. Mebbe I should quit sayin' to the store guys, "may I bite off the tip to test for crispness before I purchase?"

                It is difficult to sell a semi-zucchini, evin if its seminess is closah to fullness than nuthin'.

                (Tip is in my stomach at this stage, so yeah: hard sell.)

                That is why I always test Zuccinikind for firmness with my fingahs before I cummit.

                It is that tangible sense of Sajjo Gal 'pon vegterbyool substance as motivates Moi.

                Othahwise I would opt for mebbe 2 kumquats an' a banana -- an' go learn to juggle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alpha MarkeX
    People call it "magic" until they see the systems, data, psychology, and repetition behind it
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Originally Posted by Alpha MarkeX View Post

      People call it "magic" until they see the systems, data, psychology, and repetition behind it
      People repeat stuff, ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah an' ovah ... till'n they realise they don't actshly gotta.

      Herein lies the WHUT NAYIXT mujicka.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    I think people do this because having a machine perform as an equal asks an uncomfortable question:
    By humanizing the machine, it in turns dehumanizes them and their community. (Ironically, a lot of these people will have no qualms about life insurance for pets.)
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  • Profile picture of the author zakkk
    did you use AI to post this
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