Dare I Ask...? Yet Another WFH Critque Thread

I'm not the big expert you'll want commenting first, but I immediately think...where's the hook?

You have price as a selling point in your headline but don't mention it. Then the bolded sections don't flow for me.

I'll leave the more insightful comments for the bigger fish in this room

John,

I almost NEVER recommend writing for free, but I've seen the big picture long enough now, where I've seen incredible results coming from doing it right.

The fact is, to make some decent money as a copywriter... you'll need results, samples, testimonials, conversion stats, etc.

In other words... PROOF that you can back up your claims.

So, if you have the time and are willing to do this... I've seen it pay off for a few of the students I had do this.

Again, this is just ONE method, one idea... I'm not saying it's the only thing to do, or even if it's worth your time.

But, it IS an option, so I figured I'd throw it out there.

The problem with writing copy for free is, often times you attract less than desirable clients. And I only mean that in the way that they probably won't test your copy, use your copy, or any of that.

So, one thing you can do is contact a few successful business owners and see if they'd be willing to test out some copy you write.

I wouldn't waste your time contacting new businesses or start ups... or newbie marketers because they probably don't have the means to test your copy.

On the flip side... you probably won't hear back from the big players either. In their minds... they don't have the time or need to test out a newbie writer who doesn't have results.

In fact, even getting ahold of them may be tough.

BUT... and believe me, this works because about 6 of my students have done it successfully in the past 5 years or so... pulling down some high paying jobs as a result.

You can go to Clickbank and find some "middle of the ground" marketers... those who are between the high gravity scores and zero gravity.

You want to find marketers who at least have enough chops to know what they're doing... they're getting traffic, etc... and they have the means to test out some new copy.

I'd try and get ahold of them through email, or Facebook, etc... and see if they'd be willing to test out a new letter you'll do for them.

Tell them they don't have to do a thing except test it, and if it works... you'll give it to them for a HUGE discount if they'd be willing to offer you a testimonial and if you can use them as a case study.

Again, you want to offer this to businesses/marketers who have the means to test right away.... you don't have to send it to folks who will never use it, don't have the funds to test, etc...

You want to find those clients in which your copy could make a huge change for, right away.

Something where they can plug it right in, see results, and let you know.

And if you indeed help them double or triple conversions... you can offer the copy at a discount in return for feedback/testimonials.

So, that's just one thought. Again, it's just a thought if you have time. I've seen it work well for a few students... they ended up getting $1,000 or more for their sales letters pretty fast.

Writing for free is something I almost never recommend... but if you're starting from zero and have nothing to show for samples, proof, testimonials, etc... what do you have to lose?

Get stuff out there circulating and getting results/feedback... but do it right.

Don't try to attract freebie seekers who will take your copy and do nothing with it.

Try to find winners who will use your copy and try to win more... so you too can grab some
winning campaigns under your belt.

Again, just one thought...

John,

Yeah... upon looking at it more closely, I can see why the lack of response.

Almost every single word you write is about you. And that would be okay, to a point,
if you used it to lay out all of your successes and results.

For example.... "I sold over $204,000 of my very first ebook... here's a screen shot
of my Amazon account. I'm sure I could help you do the same".

But the problem is, John, is every statement about YOU isn't backed up by anything.

Every claim you make is not backed up with any kind of proof. So, it really could
be considered just hot air and fluff.

Focus on getting proof, and focus on getting real world feedback from others.

that way, if you make a claim... you could at least back it up.

If your sales letter promoting your services was better, you possibly COULD land
some good clients because that letter itself would serve as a sample.

But in this case, it's just not that good.

For every single time you write something about yourself... try and turn it around
and show the reader why that will help him/her. And then back it up with proof if
you can.

John, I appreciate this took you a good amount of time.

But it demonstrates that you don't know one of... if not the most important aspect of writing copy (IMHO)... which is positioning.

Rock Star? Talking about yourself the WHOLE time? Going after bottom feeders? (aka low ballers.)

Look...

You get to decide every single word on your letter; you get to decide WHO you're having a conversation with... YOU get to lead the conversation.

Your copy doesn't do that. At all.

Let me tell you something brother (in my best Hulk Hogan voice)...

Don't listen to anyone who tells you testimonials and a portfolio is a necessity. It's not. There are lots of effective ways to get high-paying clients - by writing emotionally-packed copy that speaks to what your ideal clients want; by taking on a project on-the-cheap (maybe)... because you want to prove you're legit.

Spend $7 on Rick Duris' report for copywriters. In it, you'll find how guys like myself (and countless others I'm sure) created a successful copywriting career.

By the way...

I haven't even looked at that copy Chris posted up in ages. It made me cringe.

But guess what?

I got two long term clients out of it - who have to-date put a collective 6 figures in my pocket (front and backend.)

Why? Because I produced results and charged my normal rates from that point forward.

Start over.

Who is YOUR ideal client?

What does he/she/they want?

Begin there.

Mark

John,

A couple of ideas for you.

Every client who hires a copywriter regardless of their fees, experience or kudos feels they are taking a risk.

Will the copy work? Will I get on with the copywriter? Will the copy be a cut and paste hack job?
Will it look just like everyone else's? Will it work? Will I look like a complete idiot using it? And once again Will it work?

etc etc etc (x999 and a half)

There isn't a client in the entire universe who gives a toss about you (they may seem to but its all superficial)

And its understandable - they are paying you to create miracles for them - because that is more or less what we copywriters are promising.

And to be fair once you have created the above mentioned miracles - then they start to care.

Can you see the almost unlimited hooks you could develop using these thoughts?

Write a few of them down and you'll quickly see how and why you can transform your pitch.

Making it so real and personal it deeply resonates with your audience.

As has been mentioned it's not about you - it's about them.


Steve

From: John Lloyd
Copywriter. Hard-Rock Addict. Rather Decent Guitarist.

^ I never do this shit - "From the desk of" BS. I could care less that you like rock and play guitar. Can you write copy that converts into dollars? That's all I give a shit about.


Dear Entrepreneur In Need of Sizzling Hot Copy,

cringe

You know better than anyone that a good copywriter is hard to come by. “Rock star” copywriters charge ridiculous rates.
And even if you’re willing to sign over your life savings, you’ll be at the back of the line (6+ months waits are standard).

So what’s a fresh start-up with a tight budget (and tighter deadlines) to do? You badly need invigorating copy to launch your product or service but the “rock stars” are out of reach.

Enough of the "rock star" BS. Say it one more time and I hit you.

At the same time, you know that all those amateur copywriters will end up wasting your time with poor quality copy that doesn't convert. It’s an awful dilemma, isn't it?

I could care less what the other writers will do or say. What are you going to do for me?

Well friend, cheer up! You’ve got another option on the table.

"Friend"? "Cheer up!" WTF

You see, every once in a blue moon, a young upstart has the gall to write "rock star" copy at reasonable rates (just to show his worth).

I knew it - Blam! You just got knocked out. And this "reasonable rates" tripe is just begging for the order. Sounds to me like you'd work for nothing.

That’s where I come in. Six months ago, I set out to become a master copywriter. Ever since that day, my devotion to the craft has been obsessive (or at least my girlfriend thinks so).

Please don't say "That's where I come in". Sounds amateurish.

Every morning, I've been getting up at 4AM to bury myself for a few hours in the writings of copywriting legends like Gary Halbert and Claude Hopkins (just to name a couple). As soon as I get back from work, I put in a few more hours writing out sales letters by hand!

Who the eff cares? Ditto for the girlfriend reference.

Just picture in your head...
27 books read, 82 sales letters copied by hand and 5 two-inch binders filled with notes!

No... I have better things to do.

Come to think of it, my girlfriend is right. I really am obsessed!

Honestly, it’s been a long time in the trenches. My right hand cramps up at random times from all those hand-written letters. But all that hard work has paid off. BIG TIME.

Well it doesn't look like it does it.

You see, by studying the masters, I’ve learned the secrets of copy that sells. To put it simply, good copy is all about pressing people’s emotional buttons. Logical reasoning won’t sell candy to a child. But if you can satisfy an emotional need, people will be salivating at the prospect of buying your product. That’s what I've learned to do.

Simple as that huh? In 2014.

Now, your business is going to benefit from all my labors. By the time I’m finished revamping your copy, there will be blood in the water. Your target customers will come from every corner of the web (like sharks in a frenzy) in order to click, “Buy Now”!

"Blood in the water"..."Like sharks in a frenzy". Oh God. Stop. Please stop. This is so awful it's not funny.

My hope is that you’re prepared to make a ton of money. A lot of people can’t handle it…

Keep hoping dude.

Naturally, you're all excited now. But I know you have one lingering question.

Excited? Am I? Hang on...I'll check. Nope. Not excited.

But I know the answer to "one lingering question" - "are you for real?"

How much do you charge, John? The answer is it depends. The size and scope of projects vary far too much for any self-respecting copywriter to post flat rates.

Face-palm.

"The answer is it depends". Too scared to ask for the order huh? You think if you can get them to respond then you'll nail them?

So if you’d like to get the ball rolling, then shoot me a P.M or email me at jlloydcopywriting@gmail.com and tell me exactly what you need. I’ll get back to you promptly with a quote and delivery time.

Take that "So" and boot it off a cliff. Blacklist it - until you know how to use it. And don't give the reader an option. "Let's get the ball rolling" would be better (but still sucks).

If you like what you hear, then send me my fee on paypal and I’ll get to work right away. It’s really that simple.

Hang on. Have I missed something? How can they "send me my fee" when they don't know what you charge?


Look forward to hearing from you.


Best Regards,


John Lloyd

p.s. You should know that this is a ONE-TIME OPPORTUNITY to get a very talented (and committed) copywriter for a very reasonable fee. I’m only taking on 3 clients to start off.

Begging again. "I'm only taking on 3 clients to start off". Guffaw. Do you really think I'm that stupid? You are desperate and it shows.

After that, I guarantee my rates will be going up SIGNIFICANTLY. So if you want your business to transform into a sales generating machine, don't delay. Send me a message NOW!.

Oh do me a favor...

p.p.s. While I finish typing this, my girlfriend is pestering me to go to the shopping mall with her.

As that will surely take up the whole rest of the day (and do untold damage to my bank account!), it’d be nice if there were a couple P.Ms waiting for me when I get back!

In your dreams buddy.

John, this is a stinker. No wonder you didn't get a response. But... I suspect you can write - just by reading the original post.

You need to "find your voice". How? More you write, better you get.

Got anything else you can show us? Or send it to me on PM if you like.

Don't despair - we all get the shit kicked out of us when we're learning.

And well done for having the balls to post this. Very positive move.

Stop trying to be "cute." You may think you sound relatable and funny by throwing in lines about being a guitarist and shopping with your girlfriend. But prospects don't care about that stuff.

I made the same mistake when I started out. I'm big into self-deprecation humor. I tried that in my copy. Big mistake. Like I said in a different thread, take the Walter White-approach when it comes to humor in your copy: "tread lightly."

Also, your whole pitch is built around a "HUGE discount." Then at the end, you are vague about your prices. Again, from my own experience, I don't recommend centering your offer around a low price -- unless you WANT to attract subpar clients. But if that's the approach you're going to take, you should be more specific.

-Nick

John, you don't have to worry. At least you have one thing already
going for you. You live in the most powerful copywriting state- Florida.

Florida has the greatest copywriters, dead or alive.

-Ray Edwards

So is the stumbling block -"New copywriter, no experience so no portfolio = I need to be dog cheap?"

Making the USP "dog cheap"

Maybe not the best ever selling point.

So, what is the real, cutting edge benefit of a "new copywriter?"

What will the clients get that they are less likely to get elsewhere?

How much more effort will you make?

How can you put all your studies into immediate use?

And what will this do for the clients?

Work out the answers and it should condense into the famous Avis headline.

We Try Harder.


Steve

Shot and a half from Doctor Vile (and an excellent first line on Mr Pescetti's post - the rest was good as well).

Breakthrough Advertising.

Don't leave home without it.

(or make sure you have a copy in your library).


Steve

John,

another thing.

Ask yourself the question: what kind of copy do you want to write? I don't think your page told us that (and not sizzling, rock star copy etc, that stuff means nothing).

Copywriting covers a vast range - website sales pages, email sales letters, email newsletters, online sales brochures, reports. Then there's display ads, Adwords. Video. Plus all the printed material, brochures, guides, posters...

And for what kind of clients. What sectors are you interested in?

Try and narrow this down. If you know who you want to talk to and why it will give you a better idea of what you should be saying.

You said...

You see, every once in a blue moon, a young upstart has the gall to write "rock star" copy at reasonable rates (just to show his worth).

...and basically stated that you're young, inexperienced, desperate (i.e. "reasonable rates") and that you've got something to prove (show his worth).

You don't show you worth by working for cheap. You show it by getting results.

I would agree that the premise of your "pitch" is flawed in that you're a very decent writer suggesting you'll work on the cheap.

In order to attract the highest quality leads, you have to be the highest quality lead yourself.

Own your craft and charge what you're worth. Discounts are good and they have a place in marketing, but this does feel a little too "please sir" to me.

The right people will pay you what you're worth.

Good luck!

No, you're the bad apple my friend.

Oh Mr. Lloyd, what are we going to do with you... hon?

You know, I think I recognize you now. When I was in grade school, there was this kid who went around talking smack to other kids. He got his butt kicked several times, but he never learned his lesson.

He just picked himself up out of the dirt, wiped the blood and snot off his nose and the tears out of his eyes, and pranced around the playground talking about how HE had won the fight.

BTW, how are YOU known outside this forum?

Oh, that's right, you're the guy who says this...

And then turns around and says this...

p.s. Your digging is a wasted pursuit. I value my privacy. I'm not foolish enough to put out my real name on the web.
http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...ll-work-2.html

How about telling us what miraculous copywriting secrets you discovered which took you from being completely new to this (back when you posted this thread) to being someone assumes they can knock ANYONE on this forum out of their "high tower?"

Go ahead please.

I'll get popcorn for everyone.

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

Anyone who does the following:

1. makes sure people know his penis works by mentioning he hasn't worked in the erectile dysfunction market
2. mentions that he's into combat sports when it doesn't fit the conversation
3. mentions that he doesn't do Jiu-Jitsu because he "isn't a homo, man"

Is COMPLETELY secure and should be RESPECTED.

Here's a sales page for ya: