Should a copywriter be able to write for any niche?

11 years ago

Ray,

Originally Posted by Raydal

Should a skilled copywriter, given the proper information, be able to write
successfully for any niche?

One of the first concerns potential clients have when hiring a copywriter
is how much does he know about the niche. But I think, given enough
information, (what I request from the questionnaire) that a copywriter
should be able to write for any niche. Of course research is required
if you are less familiar with a particular niche.

So is this a common fallacy that clients need to get over--you must have
experience in my niche to understand how to sell to me potential clients?

-Ray Edwards

Years ago when I first started writing copy no one talked about "can you write for my niche?" It was assumed that as a copywriter you can write just about anything and I did.

But that was over 20 years ago and since then a whole new generation has grown up and conditioned to believe in the new mantras - "Generalist" vs. "Specialist".

Unfortunately, so have our clients. That's why I find myself constantly studying and reading up on what the market is offering.

As for whether clients need to get over it, nah. I just need to stay on the cutting edge and wow them to the best of my ability.

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angiecolee

11 years ago

I'm just honest with potential clients.

Selling is selling is selling. All you have to do is learn what the prospect wants to buy and give it to them.

If I don't know a niche that well, I warn a potential client that I will need to steep myself in research which will extend the timeline. But by the time I'm done, I'll be able to tell them everything they ever needed to know about their target market and then some. And we'll make some kickass sales.

Some are really uncomfortable with me not knowing their niche - more power to 'em. They can keep up the hunt. There are more than enough talented copywriters out there to take care of 'em.

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Mark Pescetti

11 years ago

Yes... and no.

I agree with Angie... selling is selling.

But it's natural to specialize - once you have a few successes in a particular space.

The real question is...

Are you willing to stand toe to toe with daunting learning curves... as a way of life?

Sometimes it's better to refer a prospect to a copywriter who already specializes in a particular space, rather than tryng to chop down the learning curve yourself.

So there's a big difference between can... and want.

For instance...

I had someone call me yesterday in the financial space (as in investment/Wallstreet - not MMO.)

I loved the guy the moment I checked out his website. Real deal all the way. But my schedule doesn't allow me the time to give him the attention his campaign needs. So I immediately went to my #1 choice for referring clients. (Y'all know him;-)

So you have to be realistic with what you CAN do... and what you WANT to do.

Sometimes the challenge makes you a better writer... more effective salesperson. And sometimes you just need to focus on the line of clients already singled-filed out the door in a space you're killing it in.

There's no right or wrong answer. But one usually FEELS more right...

If you smell what The Mark is smoking.

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ewenmack

11 years ago

If that question is asked of you, it's a symptom of the prospect not buying
your unique point of view.

Hasn't made that decision you are the guy or gal he want's.

This means you haven't done enough pre-selling and run them
through a dis-qualifying process before you talk with them.

My dis-qualifying process is they fill in a application form.

By the end of it I have highly motivated people who have sold themselves
on working with me.

Not all are a good fit so I politely turn them away.

It automates the whole client screening process.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile

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Raydal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

This means you haven't done enough pre-selling and run them
through a dis-qualifying process before you talk with them.

My dis-qualifying process is they fill in a application form.

By the end of it I have highly motivated people who have sold themselves
on working with me.

I totally agree. I do the same on my website as well. In fact, "not
knowing their market" is one of the first objections I tackle because
I know it is so common. So if a prospect reads my site and fills
the query I know they are 'qualified' and are not likely to bring
this objection. But all prospects do not come through the same path.

-Ray Edwards

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MikeHumphreys

11 years ago

Should a copywriter be able to write for any niche?

It depends.

It depends on how much interest they have in learning niches they aren't already familiar with.

There are some topics and niches I'm not willing to spend weeks or months getting familiar with for any amount of money.

It depends on how much learning curve & time they need getting up to speed on the niche.

There are some topics that I could be interested in, but I know nothing about at this time. It would take me months to really learn and understand them. So it's simpler to turn down the project and refer to them someone else who's already experienced/familiar with that niche. In return, the client gets the marketing help they need a lot faster.

It depends on their personal (and even professional) conflicts of interests.

Case in point, I won't write copy for certain types of dating products. As someone who has a daughter, the "find love for one night only" types of products don't sit well with me personally.

It's not that I think they are bad products... they're not. They're serving a specific target audience who is looking for that information. But my own personal conflict of interest prevents me from delivering my "A" game for that type of product. So in the best of interests of the client, I turn them down politely and refer them to someone else who can bring their "A" game instead.

So could I write for every niche?

Yes.

Do I write for every niche?

No, but for a lot of good reasons.

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Raydal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

It depends on their personal (and even professional) conflicts of interests.

Case in point, I won't write copy for certain types of dating products. As someone who has a daughter, the "find love for one night only" types of products don't sit well with me personally.

Well, this is a different category of ethics and not ability. Like you, I don't
write for the "how to get laid" market either whether I had a daughter or
not (I have 2), just as a matter of principle. Sex belongs inside a marriage
relationship and no where else--and those are the people who enjoy
sex the most--all the research show this. Anyway, that's another topic
altogether.

-Ray Edwards

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marciayudkin

11 years ago

If you know nothing about a niche that zillions of people are avid about, then you probably shouldn't write for that niche. The reason is that you will not know the lingo and it would be very hard for you to find distinctive selling points that aren't cliches.

Case in point... I have never played golf in my life. I think I know what "under par" and "tee time" mean but not "birdie" or anything else. It would be ridiculous for me to try to learn all that for one assignment, and I don't think a client would want me to, unless this was a product/service for absolute beginners.

On the other hand, I have dealt with some very specialized financial topics that I knew nothing about, and that the client patiently answered my questions about. In such cases, I always make sure to have the client go over my work to make sure I haven't inadvertently misused any of their terminology. Most of the time, such clients don't want their copy to be full of jargon and welcome an outsider's perspective.

You need to make sure the learning curve involved will make sense for you and is fair to your client.

Marcia Yudkin

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big-marketing

11 years ago

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

If you know nothing about a niche that zillions of people are avid about, then you probably shouldn't write for that niche. The reason is that you will not know the lingo and it would be very hard for you to find distinctive selling points that aren't cliches.

Case in point... I have never played golf in my life. I think I know what "under par" and "tee time" mean but not "birdie" or anything else. It would be ridiculous for me to try to learn all that for one assignment, and I don't think a client would want me to, unless this was a product/service for absolute beginners.

On the other hand, I have dealt with some very specialized financial topics that I knew nothing about, and that the client patiently answered my questions about. In such cases, I always make sure to have the client go over my work to make sure I haven't inadvertently misused any of their terminology. Most of the time, such clients don't want their copy to be full of jargon and welcome an outsider's perspective.

You need to make sure the learning curve involved will make sense for you and is fair to your client.

Marcia Yudkin

Hey Marcia. Interesting you brought up Golf and Finance...

Before I wrote for Revolution Golf and produced their largest product launch/es in company history within the first 3 months of working with them, I hated watching golf... never played in my life... didn't even know what "under par" or "tee time" was... I actually started enjoying watching it right away and picked up the lingo, etc. pretty easy.

Fortunately, my wife was an avid golfer back in the day, hung out with male associates on the green, played in some charity tournaments, etc. So that helped a lot.

Now Finance... I would rather stick a fork in both eyes then write for finance... I refer all finance copy to Tony Flores. It makes my head hurt. I did a big launch in that industry as well, but I told the client that I would do my best but they might have to write the emails because I only had a few weeks to research, etc among everything else needed to run a big launch... After a few emails, they agreed. I still did all the strategy, told them how many emails, what they should "say", when and everything else involved. I critiqued their emails and sales copy but that was it. No thank you!

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gjabiz

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

run them
through a dis-qualifying process before you talk with them.

My dis-qualifying process is they fill in a application form.

By the end of it I have highly motivated people who have sold themselves
on working with me.

Not all are a good fit so I politely turn them away.

It automates the whole client screening process.

Best,
Doctor E. Vile

Thanks Doc.

IF only copywriters understood this... what a difference it makes.

gjabiz

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marciayudkin 11 years ago

I don't know very many top copywriters who would say, "I think someone else would do a much a better job." They might think it, but I can't see anyone saying it.

I have done this many times when an assignment has come along in an area where I am neither knowledgeable nor interested, like vitamin supplements.

Sometimes what I say is that this assignment or topic is not my forte and therefore I will pass.

Life is too short and happiness too precious to take on freelance work that isn't to your liking.

Marcia Yudkin
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angiecolee

11 years ago

Yeah, I agree on that Mark. I should have mentioned that sometimes a niche is completely not worth pursuing for me because I have ZERO interest in it and all the money in the world won't make me sit my ADD ass down and focus.

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splitTest

11 years ago

I'd like to think I could write for any product... but some products seem like such a con, I'd have a hard time writing for them. ... Like those money-making schemes where all the writer ever says throughout the pitch is some variation of "I'm gonna make you rich"... I'd have a hard time writing that bunk.

Then there are the disease cures... I'd have a hard time writing for those...

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Marvin Johnston

11 years ago

Writing for any niche?

I like all the reasons presented above. But one that hasn't been mentioned is who else is also writing in that niche. It would be kind of naive to think that someone unfamiliar with a given niche to have success, let's say for example, competing against boardroom copywriters in the niches they specialize in.

Of course, the definition of success enters into the equation as well

.

Marvin

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Mark Pescetti

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Marvin Johnston

Writing for any niche?

I like all the reasons presented above. But one that hasn't been mentioned is who else is also writing in that niche. It would be kind of naive to think that someone unfamiliar with a given niche to have success, let's say for example, competing against boardroom copywriters in the niches they specialize in.

Of course, the definition of success enters into the equation as well

.

Marvin

I don't know very many top copywriters who would say, "I think someone else would do a much a better job." They might think it, but I can't see anyone saying it.

If there's ample time... and the campaign potentials turn you on... you can always get up to speed and establish a control. At least, you should be able to.

I've gone up against Agora writers twice. And won twice. You're always up against competition. That's the name of the game, baby!

Mark

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Leadsupply

11 years ago

In my opinion an expert copy writer should be able to write on any niche. Now a day you can get all kinds of information about any niche by Goggling. So it should be difficult for an expert copy writer.

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The Copywriting Engineer

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Leadsupply

In my opinion an expert copy writer should be able to write on any niche. Now a day you can get all kinds of information about any niche by Goggling. So it should be difficult for an expert copy writer.

That is the easy way out. But you are right, anybody can write anything.

Lets say we are writing copy on an e-book on how to become a better golfer.

Which copywriter do you think will be able to engage the mind of the prospect and have a higher conversion rate.

Someone who has been playing for 20 years or someone how has been playing for 6 months?

There is a difference from having experience with the niche and just knowing about it.
Now and days you get greater results by hiring a specialist.

If you have a stock investment guru and his subscribers have been in the game for 10+ years, who do you think is going to write better copy. The expert copywriter with a little bit of knowledge on stocks but is willing to do a ton of research or the copywriter who has been investing for 15 years and has multiple clients in the investment niche?

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kk075

11 years ago

Whenever I pitch someone in a niche that I have little experience with, I tell them up front that my knowledge of the genre is completely irrelevant. In fact, don't need to know all about their products, their sales process or any of that stuff....I only need to know who their ideal client is.

If they can give me that one nugget of information, then I can read their site and get the "who, what, where and why" in a matter of minutes...or at least I hope I can. Because if that info is not there, then that means the company's customers don't know it either....and then there's a big problem.

So my short answer would be, "I don't study niches, I study people." And since people buy all kinds of things, then I can write about all kinds of products.

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DarlanneCruz

11 years ago

A jack-of-all-trade coywriter is a great find for clients. But in my opinion, it is better if you are specializing in a specific niche. A niche that you yourself; have an experience or have a vast knowledge on.

Like a company creating their target market, your target market will be companies in a niche that you are an expert to.

My client who is a copywriter, only looks and accepts clients in the B2B and IT/Tech companies/startups. That is because this field is his forte and he is best knowledgeable in this industry than others.

For copywriters who want to specialize in a specific niche, choose an industry that you are most passionate about, where you can really contribute because you have adequate knowledge about that field, may it be, beauty and fashion, real estate, ecommerce or technology.

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Slade556

11 years ago

I think that, given enough information, a good copywriter can definitely be able to write something good, regardless what the niche is. A good copywriter has a wide imagination. It also helps to do your own research, and if you decide it's worth your time, then I think it's possible to write about any niche.

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Andy The Copywriter

11 years ago

It's much, much better to specialize, IMO.

You get to know the niche on an intimate level and there's not as much guesswork involved in every new project.

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Mary Davis

11 years ago

In the age of the internet, a good copywriter can become well informed on almost any subject in a short period of time. My personal belief is that if you are going to make it in the business, you MUST be a Master Chameleon, able to change your tone, style, and voice for whatever subject and target audience you're writing about/to, and this also includes the ability to research and write about even things you know little to nothing about.

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MikeHumphreys

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mary Davis

In the age of the internet, a good copywriter can become well informed on almost any subject in a short period of time. My personal belief is that if you are going to make it in the business, you MUST be a Master Chameleon, able to change your tone, style, and voice for whatever subject and target audience you're writing about/to, and this also includes the ability to research and write about even things you know little to nothing about.

Sorry I strongly disagree. There are a lot of niches like survival and investing where being "well-informed" barely scratches the surface of what you need to know to write high-converting copy.

There's a MASSIVE difference between being well-informed and knowing a niche in depth to where you know who's running what offers that are converting very well... what makes the ideal target prospect tick... what keeps them up at night... where they hang out... how they talk (especially their own lingo and slang)... what works and doesn't work with that target audience too. Getting to that depth of understanding takes a lot of time.

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BrandonLee

11 years ago

I can do an ok to good launch in just about any niche, but the only excellent one's I've done have been financially related products (stock market education and newsletters, real estate, forex, penny stocks)

When I was starting out I was willing to do just about anything, but as you go along in your career there are not very many good reasons to step outside of what you are excellent at.

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Mary Davis

11 years ago

Mike,

I see we disagree yet again. Your response implies that all copywriting requires a writer to drill down to the deepest levels of a subject. While it is implicitly true that most people can write better about topics they truly know, for entry-level products or sales letters, one does not need to be a rabid subject matter expert - only enough of a chameleon to convince readers that s/he is.

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BrandonLee

11 years ago

It really comes down to the niche you are working in and what you expect of yourself.

There are still several markets and niches where you can be "Good enough" and be considered one of the best.

If you get into more competitive niches....not so much.

It's also a matter of how OCD you are. In my own case I've never been really happy with any work I've done. I've done seven figure launches that set records for clients, I still beat the hell out of myself over little things that could have been better. I wish I wasn't like that, it makes me a pain in the ass and slow -but it's who I am, since I know the mental trauma I'm going to put myself through even when I do my best work, why would I want to do something less?

Originally Posted by Mary Davis

Mike,

I see we disagree yet again. Your response implies that all copywriting requires a writer to drill down to the deepest levels of a subject. While it is implicitly true that most people can write better about topics they truly know, for entry-level products or sales letters, one does not need to be a rabid subject matter expert - only enough of a chameleon to convince readers that s/he is.

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MikeHumphreys

11 years ago

Originally Posted by BrandonLee

It really comes down to the niche you are working in and what you expect of yourself.

There are still several markets and niches where you can be "Good enough" and be considered one of the best.

I agree. The WSO marketplace (at least in the past) is a good example of where good enough copy could do well. Use blind copy and sell the dream or the shiny object and many WSO buyers eagerly would buy.

If you get into more competitive niches....not so much.

Absolutely. In some niches like investments, there's a lot more consumer skeptism and then there's legal compliance issues to deal with too.

It's also a matter of how OCD you are. In my own case I've never been really happy with any work I've done. I've done seven figure launches that set records for clients, I still beat the hell out of myself over little things that could have been better. I wish I wasn't like that, it makes me a pain in the ass and slow -but it's who I am, since I know the mental trauma I'm going to put myself through even when I do my best work, why would I want to do something less?

I'd chalk it up to just being competitive. Highly competitive people, in any sport or industry, are constantly working on improving their skills and frequently will look at their recent performance and try to figure out what they could have done better.

I don't know a single high-level copywriter who isn't competitive as hell.

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MikeHumphreys

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mary Davis

Mike,

I see we disagree yet again. Your response implies that all copywriting requires a writer to drill down to the deepest levels of a subject. While it is implicitly true that most people can write better about topics they truly know, for entry-level products or sales letters, one does not need to be a rabid subject matter expert - only enough of a chameleon to convince readers that s/he is.

For entry-level salesletters, you're charging entry-level fees. There's nothing wrong with that and you're serving a part of the overall "need copywriting help" market that other copywriters like me don't work with.

The problem with consistently working at entry-level fees is it means you're relying on doing a higher volume of projects each month to cover your overhead. Short of working 100 hour per week, the trade-off is less time spent on each project.

As a result the odds of producing a big winner for your client drop significantly because you're not writing from a position of in-depth knowledge of the niche and the target market because you don't have the time to spend gaining that in-depth knowledge.

The exception to that statement might be the specialist copywriter who has written dozens or hundreds of times for that one niche... but once they start to have a number of hits for their clients in that niche, they rarely keep their fees at entry level.

Gary Bencivenga had a success rate over 80% in his career because he spent a ton of time on each project (especially on the research side of things) and because he was very selective on what projects he took on.

He's not the only copywriter who has developed a high win rate because they spend a lot of time on research before they write a single word of copy.

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Should a copywriter be able to write for any niche?

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