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Making Up Story Examples - Your Thoughts?

by MatthewRHallEsq
11 replies
Mike Schauer's latest email include this swipe gem from Frank Kern. Generated $1.4m in 30 minutes, completely selling out.

Here's the part I'm wondering about. About 10% of the way in, Frank starts giving "examples" of how this system works. Outback, Indiana, Zone, Rourke... each of these "students" perfectly targets a potential buyer persona:


But I have a hard time believing, as a marketer and copywriter, those examples happened in a way that was anything remotely like what was described.

In fact, I think some are downright made up (or embellished to the point they're essentially fiction.) They're simply too perfectly targeted at their intended buyer personas.

Am I off base? Are these made up, and if so, how is that okay from a legal/ethical perspective?

(Other than my personal belief PUA students are kind of scummy.)

Do you make up examples in your own copy when needed, or "stretch the truth" to this degree? I can see how creating examples for a genuinely beneficial product would help potential buyers see how it could benefit them.

Not looking for your permission to lie in my copy, just honestly wondering what your thoughts are.
#examples #making #story #thoughts
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    My observation over the years has been that since his FTC troubles, FK has been very careful with the truth. So my inclination is to believe his claims and his testimonials.

    To answer your general question, personal stories and testimonials are quite often embellished in copy. Some copywriters think it's okay; others don't.

    My thoughts: I have to live with my conscience and/or the possible consequences of the words I write.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      I am not his target market (obviously), but I don't find these particular examples believable at all.

      On the other hand, some people will believe anything because they are so desperate for change in their lives.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Pines
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      since his FTC troubles, FK has been very careful with the truth. So my inclination is to believe his claims and his testimonials.

      A bit like the way Kevin Trudeau started to change his ways after his numerous run-ins with the FTC. Before they eventually got tired of his lies and just jailed him

      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      My thoughts: I have to live with my conscience and/or the possible consequences of the words I write.

      It's good that you stand by your conscience, I hope you're not assuming that FK lives to your standards.
      A quick search for 'Frank Kern FTC' reveals plenty of info - some of it old, some of it new, all of it relevant to making a decision on the character of the man.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      My observation over the years has been that since his FTC troubles, FK has been very careful with the truth. So my inclination is to believe his claims and his testimonials.

      To answer your general question, personal stories and testimonials are quite often embellished in copy. Some copywriters think it's okay; others don't.

      My thoughts: I have to live with my conscience and/or the possible consequences of the words I write.

      Alex
      The copy was written by Harlan Kilstein. I presume he did the email sequence as well. Maybe Frank had some input. But Harlan definitely wrote the salespage.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

        The copy was written by Harlan Kilstein. I presume he did the email sequence as well. Maybe Frank had some input. But Harlan definitely wrote the salespage.
        Interesting Mal... thanks.

        Alex
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        • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

          Interesting Mal... thanks.

          Alex
          I swiped the Annihilation Method letter in 90 minutes in front of a live audience. It sold one million dollars in 20 minutes.
          Harlan Kilstein



          Frank wanted to beat John Reese’s Million Dollar Day. And he wanted to avoid all of the hassles of dealing with affiliates. Frank and his cousin Trey Smith approached Neil Strauss who has just published “The Game” about the pick-up Seduction world. They wanted Strauss to create a product called “The Annihilation Method.” Neil agreed.
          Frank wanted to sell a DVD set for $997 dollars and sell a thousand of them. I told him the value was much higher. He was incredulous. “You think you could get people to buy a DVD set at a higher price?” I suggested a price tag of $7000. We compromised at around $4000. It would be the highest priced product to ever hit the market.
          This launch was all Frank. He went wild with emails and built Neil a huge list. One email was “The Black Mirror Technique.” It was so over the top with magic techniques that it drove people insane. They HAD to buy the product.
          I wrote the letter live in front of a seminar audience. It took me about 90 minutes to write the letter. After the letter was written, Frank’s cousin Trey made some adjustments to the letter that in my opinion killed the letter. I called Frank and begged him not to run with Trey’s letter. In the end, Frank made very few adjustments to my letter. The letter sold out in about 19 minutes. It was the fastest million dollars made online.
          From that point on, Frank began running launches himself and doing his own copy. He moved to video where he showed mastery of the techniques involved.
          Harlan Kilstein.

          Throws more light on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
    The story in the famous Wall St. Journal ad was made up - but they admit that right upfront in the ad.

    You can use that kind of strategy like this...

    "Picture my make-believe coaching student, John.

    You might identify with John. John's the kind of guy who procrastinates a lot - before he came to me for help anyway..."
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
      Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

      The story in the famous Wall St. Journal ad was made up - but they admit that right upfront in the ad.

      You can use that kind of strategy like this...

      "Picture my make-believe coaching student, John.

      You might identify with John. John's the kind of guy who procrastinates a lot - before he came to me for help anyway..."
      ^^^^^^This.

      You can create an "archetype" of your ideal customer or client and tell a story.

      But it needs to be clear that you're making it up... which is a great way to start - if you don't have real social proof.

      It's a way to get inside the head of your audience and make them feel like you can read their minds.

      Again though...

      Be totally transparent that you're making up a story (to make a critical point.)

      Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author TypingPandas
    People will hear (read) and believe what they want to be told. That's what advertising and copywriting have been using to their advantage for years. That's why hundreds of stories have been invented along the years to make people believe in a brand, a product, a service or a person. Some people just thing those stories are real, while other know they're made up, but still believe them. Why? Because they desperately need to believe in something, because the story offers them a solution to their problems or just because they find themselves in the characters and this eases them.

    What I'm trying to say is that, from my point of view, made-up stories are OK as long as they don't exaggerate too much and promise people they can become billionaires over night just by dreaming of it. But I agree with the stories that offer people a ray of hope in their lives and help them believe in something. After all, the majority of the copies written nowadays contain fiction, even if it's just 0.99% of it.

    Best,
    Typing Pandas
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyler Hall
    I'll often include stories to paint a picture of the benefits. If it's a fictional story I'll start with something like "Now picture this", or "The sun is shining...".

    My opinion is that if it's what your product offers your not really lying, simply guiding into what to expect.

    I love this sort of story telling when writing real estate ads. Has gotten me tremendous results and really stands out among the abundance of fact based ads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    The Master Teacher, Jesus, did use fictional stories to get His point
    across and He didn't mention whether they were fictional or not.
    For example, the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus was fictional.

    Using "parables" was a common way of teaching back then.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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