31 replies
PROJECT DROPPED

Hello, fellow Warriors and Copywriters!

Please brutally and honestly provide a review or comment on my PRE-sell Page:

Beginner Guitar Lessons For All

I tried my best to understand and implement all the great suggestions. Hope it's much better than previous copies.

It's my 3rd PRE-sell Page, and I'm not going anywhere with it now. That is why I need good advice from fellow Warriors and Copywriters to improve the copy!

Thanks in advance!

=============
UPDATES
=============
1. Reworked a new copy(failed).
2. Rewrote Original Post.
3. Reworked a new copy(2nd try, pending critiques.)

Sincerely,
Shaun
#3rd #page #presell
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Hey there...

    Ok, I'll take a shot at this. This is great because I'm a copywriter as well as a former guitar player for about 8 years, a long time ago.

    1. The header: The sentence is not easy to read because of the people images and the black building image. Can't read that one word at all. Not sure how to address this. But it doesn't look very good in my opinion.

    2. This really kinda reminds me more of a short sales page than a pre-sell. I mean, it has sales type copy in it. Perhaps edit out the sales copy and just talk to someone, in your head, like you're bs'ing with them about a cool learn guitar product. But you're excited about it and just want to tell them how cool it is, etc.

    3. Ok, here's my biggest problem with this... it's totally unbelievable because no one masters anything in 30 days, unless it's something incredibly simple and easy. Playing guitar does not fall into that category.

    It's not that playing is hard. Not sure how to put this. But, believe me... mastering it? 30 days? No way, bro. lol. Maybe it doesn't matter, and all you want is the sale. But you're bs'ing people, man. I don't care, really... it's your gig.

    I'd honestly say it takes years to master playing just about any instrument. You mention becoming a professional guitarist in 30 days? No.

    4. There's a curious vertical line just right of center. I think maybe it has something to do with a right column. (?) Need to fix that.

    5. Instead of all the copy about 4 weeks, 30 days, etc... try to presell by talking about guitar playing and playing great music to the guy, or girl, reading it. It's like you're a guitar player who just LOVES playing guitar... can't wait to get home after school, or work, and just playing your ass off the whole evening.

    Talk about some of the great guitar players, learning incredible licks... kick ass power chords... no more air guitar for you, pal... you'll be doing it FOR REAL. F&&% air guitar, man. Play it for real. Impress your girlfriend and friends, dude.

    Here's how...

    The bit about Jamorama seems ok.

    Something like that. It's just an idea and there are others.

    Oh... maybe some royalty-safe pics of great guitar players and guitars to break it up a little. Wouldn't hurt...

    Hope all that helps and good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author activetrader
    It looks good... one thing I have to say is that the text in the header is hard to read because of graphics... perhaps if you could move it around that would be more effective otherwise my eyes hurt when I try to read it
    Signature

    Me

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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    Thanks Ken, for your detailed review!

    1. The header: How do I fix this? I got no idea at all.

    2. I wrote this while referring other sales pages, is it ok to do so?

    3. Actually, I'm a guitar player too. The 30 days could be fake, but if that particular student practice every single day, it's possible. I "literally" mastered it in less than 3 months. I mean, I could play whatever song I wanted as long as there are tabs.

    4. I need to fix this, my PC didn't show it. But my other computer did. How to fix this line?

    5. Your point about this part is good, but I've actually written one like that before. Here's the link if you're interested: The Guitar Soup. I'm switching to this one, which I think is far better written and designed if compared to the old one.

    6. I'm going to insert some pics later, thanks for this tip!

    -----------------------------------------
    Hello activetrader,

    I really don't know how to fix the header, and the verticle line.

    Maybe you could help?
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    The whole angle of lying guitar teachers holding back techniques to prevent you from learning is silly and complete bull****.

    Lose the conspiracy angle.

    Focus on the REAL pain that all newbie guitar players experience:

    Dejection and feelings of inadequacy.

    Project them into the experience of quickly learning to play their favorite songs. Demonstrate that it will work by revealing a "secret" aspect to that song (like the use of drop D tuning in Unchained by Van Halen, the octave E bar chord in Whole Lotta Love by Led Zeppelin, the palm muting "chug" of Metallica's Enter Sandman...)

    Explain how the newb will discover the "gear and effect secrets for nailing the perfect tone of their favorite players".

    I realize this is a just a pre-sell but all the more reason for building trust and empathy by demonstrating your understanding of both their feelings and the subject matter at hand.

    Good luck,

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      This is interesting. I am someone who is starting to learn guitar... again.

      And I know the master it in 30 days is bull $hit. But that doesn't mean you can't tell them that they can get good in 30 days. Tell them that. I look at this as myself being your customer, getting good is believable.

      Have your prospect Imagine... or picture themselves... playing guitar like their Idols.

      I've seen the people I like play guitar live like... Zakk Wylde, Eddie VanHalen, Slash, Joe Perry, when I seen Joe Walsh play Rocky Mountain Way... your prospect wants to be their Idol.

      Let them know that you have the proven "Short-cut Secrets", Yes I said "Secrets" to getting great at guitar fast.

      Let them know you'll reveal the tricks and tactics to doing their favourite guitar licks, the squalies (pinched harmonics) the heavy rock chords etc.

      You know what people want. Tell them, but make it believable.

      Take care,


      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    Hello everyone, I really do appreciate all the brutal comments! It's what that kept me alive and constantly improving!

    Alright, I've made some modifications.

    Is it better now?

    It looks like a sales page. @.@
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Sorry but I don't see any changes at all... And you certainly didn't pay any attention to what I already posted.

    Oh well.

    Best,

    Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Sorry but I don't see any changes at all... And you certainly didn't pay any attention to what I already posted.

      Oh well.

      Best,

      Brian
      Hello Brian,

      I just changed the template and changed some wordings.

      I haven't got the time to rewrite the whole pre-sell page, as it is currently 1.16AM where I live. Rewriting the whole page will take time, and I'll be making the proper changes and implementing what other Warriors have mentioned.

      It's good that there are brutal and honest comments. Really appreciated them, Warriors! Keep them coming and I'll fine-tune my Pre-sell Page!

      Regards,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    All right, Warriors!

    After 90 minutes of writing, I have produced a pre-sell with more convincing points, all contributed from fellow Warriors!

    THANKS WARRIORS!

    However, I know it still needs to be fine-tuned. So keep the reviews and comments coming, ALL FEEDBACK IS DEEPLY APPRECIATED!

    Regards,
    Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author SRLee
        Originally Posted by WordPro View Post

        In all fairness to the Warriors here, you havn't implemented their suggestions - you've merely added your own slant to those suggestions based on your own lopsided interpretation/s of said comments.

        I didn't get very far down this page - I couldn't bear to read any more, it was just, no offence, horrible to read and try and take in.

        As Daniel has stated very well above, this thing needs a complete rewrite, it really is just about as bad as it gets, copy wise.

        Everything is wrong with it, from what I could see reading the first minute or so.

        It doesn't flow, the claims are outrageous, there's no synchronicity, you've written it with keywords in mind, there's no story, it doesn't grab my attention, you destroy your own trust and credibility from the outset etc etc etc ...

        Stick a bomb under the whole lot and start again.

        I've also got a guitar website and I'm afraid by a long shot, this just doesn't cut it by comparison.

        Either read Joseph Sugarman (to quote one good copywriting author)* or hire a copywriter, for in it's present form, this copy ain't going nowhere fast - except in the opposite direction, to where you ideally need and/or want to be going / heading / taking it.

        Best of luck with your endeavors!

        Mark


        *adweek copywriting handbook, great deals on Books on eBay!
        Hi Mark, thank you too for your review!

        First of all, could you restate your first paragraph? I don't get it...

        None taken. In fact, without comments like this I would most probably think I'm having a great copy!

        I'm going to rewrite a new copy soon. I'm just not going to settle with a bad copy that's not going to make me sales.

        The problem is, how to write a good copy? I know Warriors had been advising me to remove that Sales Page format, but I couldn't think of another format that I could use.

        I'm also having problems as to what to include and what NOT to include in a copy. I hope you could enlighten me on this as well!

        Can I have a look at your guitar website or any great pre-sell pages? I would love to have something to refer to!

        I'm starting with zero funds here, so I can't really get even the most basic copywriter. Thanks for the recommendation of Joseph Sugarman too, but I can't get any of his materials as I have no cash.

        Again, thanks to all the Warriors that had provided their feedback!

        Sincerely,
        Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Dude, this page doesn't need fine-tuning.

    It needs a COMPLETE re-write.

    As in, total.

    You've still got the bull**** conspiracy angle there. Any musician knows that's crap.

    What musicians hate are hitting brick walls in their practice... never being able to get faster and cleaner... Practicing and getting nowhere... etc.

    Read the testimonials... they will give you an insight to your market.

    And you don't have to put in the "idol" angle every two lines... it gets really old really fast.

    On top of all this... you have ZERO credibility. No guitarist I know can play EVERY SONG, except maybe Steve Vai, or Slash, or whoever...

    We "mere mortals" can't compete with that.

    But we CAN imagine learning a song in record time... impressing our friends at a party... ENJOYING playing the guitar... making women drool over you... etc.

    Scrap the page and start again... and perhaps lose the sales page format.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      Dude, this page doesn't need fine-tuning.

      It needs a COMPLETE re-write.

      As in, total.

      You've still got the bull**** conspiracy angle there. Any musician knows that's crap.

      What musicians hate are hitting brick walls in their practice... never being able to get faster and cleaner... Practicing and getting nowhere... etc.

      Read the testimonials... they will give you an insight to your market.

      And you don't have to put in the "idol" angle every two lines... it gets really old really fast.

      On top of all this... you have ZERO credibility. No guitarist I know can play EVERY SONG, except maybe Steve Vai, or Slash, or whoever...

      We "mere mortals" can't compete with that.

      But we CAN imagine learning a song in record time... impressing our friends at a party... ENJOYING playing the guitar... making women drool over you... etc.

      Scrap the page and start again... and perhaps lose the sales page format.

      -Dan
      Hi Dan, thanks for your review!

      Ok, I understand I'll have to rewrite it again, but what should I include or remove in the new copy?

      By the way, do you have any great pre-sell pages to let me refer to? I'm totally new to copywriting. I never thought of it to be so hard, honestly.

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Shaun,

        I´ve already TOLD you what to remove in the copy.

        Sure, it´s not a complete critique... but those take time and time is money and all that.

        I think the best way to do this is to structure it as a review of jamorama... actually buy the product and review it HONESTLY. Point out the good and bad points... and give people the link to check it out further.

        -Dan

        Originally Posted by SRLee View Post

        Hi Dan, thanks for your review!

        Ok, I understand I'll have to rewrite it again, but what should I include or remove in the new copy?

        By the way, do you have any great pre-sell pages to let me refer to? I'm totally new to copywriting. I never thought of it to be so hard, honestly.

        Sincerely,
        Shaun
        Signature

        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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  • Profile picture of the author CopyMonster
    How is this a pre-sell? I'm with Alexa on this. This looks more like a sales page to me. You're better off having a video tutorial or sharing some valuable content which delivers a tangible result. Then pitch the link or offer more with an email optin.
    Signature
    Scary good...
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by bf68 View Post

      How is this a pre-sell? I'm with Alexa on this. This looks more like a sales page to me. You're better off having a video tutorial or sharing some valuable content which delivers a tangible result. Then pitch the link or offer more with an email optin.
      Hi bf68, I know it's a Sales Page format, but I don't know how a great pre-sell page look like. Maybe you could point me to some great ones?

      Could you elaborate more on the option you had provided? I'm still very new in IM(less than 60 days experience), that's why I'm focusing on one method to at least break that first sale barrier.

      Sincerely,
      Shaun

      Originally Posted by KenThompson

      I suggest you just read the comments again and re-write it.
      Hi Ken, yeah I'm trying to digest all the information. WF's full of great and helpful people, that's for sure!

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I suggest you just read the comments again and re-write it.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Shaun,

    "... I know it's a Sales Page format, but I don't know how a great pre-sell page look like. Maybe you could point me to some great ones?"

    Perhaps try not to get hung up on format, formulas, things like that. Presell copy is
    an approach. It's a way of "talking" with writing that is non-pressure and relaxed. It's
    like I said way above, pretend you're talking to someone you know and like about
    something you know and they don't know. This something is really great and cool, and
    you want to share it with them.

    You've done that before. Right? I'm guessing you have because we all have.

    Don't worry about getting it right the first time you write it. That's why editing is so
    great.

    Maybe try making an outline of some points about Jamorama.

    Then take some of the suggestions from the comments in this thread. Things that
    are important to guitar players, or people who want to learn how to play guitar.

    Then, pretend you're telling your best friend about Jamorama. Pretend your friend has
    been really dying to play guitar. But maybe doesn't have the cash for lessons, or
    whatever. Well! Ok, that's no problem because you can learn how to play fairly decently
    in a fairly short period of time with this really cool site that will teach you how to play.

    It's relaxed. Try to relax and just write it. Get down what you want to say or do
    and then don't think about it too much.
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Shaun,

      "... I know it's a Sales Page format, but I don't know how a great pre-sell page look like. Maybe you could point me to some great ones?"

      Perhaps try not to get hung up on format, formulas, things like that. Presell copy is
      an approach. It's a way of "talking" with writing that is non-pressure and relaxed. It's
      like I said way above, pretend you're talking to someone you know and like about
      something you know and they don't know. This something is really great and cool, and
      you want to share it with them.

      You've done that before. Right? I'm guessing you have because we all have.

      Don't worry about getting it right the first time you write it. That's why editing is so
      great.

      Maybe try making an outline of some points about Jamorama.

      Then take some of the suggestions from the comments in this thread. Things that
      are important to guitar players, or people who want to learn how to play guitar.

      Then, pretend you're telling your best friend about Jamorama. Pretend your friend has
      been really dying to play guitar. But maybe doesn't have the cash for lessons, or
      whatever. Well! Ok, that's no problem because you can learn how to play fairly decently
      in a fairly short period of time with this really cool site that will teach you how to play.

      It's just relaxed. Try to relax and just write it. Get down what you want to say or do
      and then just don't think about it too much. Just write it out.
      Wow Ken. I don't know why, but I definitely think I got something from your reply!

      I'm going to rewrite one soon and again get feedbacks to fine-tune the new one. I'm sure the next one will be better!

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    Hi guys, new copy uploaded!

    I removed the sales page format, I think it looks "OK". Maybe I need to add sub-headers?

    I already tried my best to understand and implement all the valuable suggestions. Hope it's better this time.

    Again, please do not hold back on the feedback.

    Sincerely,
    Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Shaun,

    Mr. Scott's advice about structuring as a review may be a better way for you
    to get going with this. You seem to have some difficulty with the presell concept. Of
    course that's understandable considering your overall limited experience.

    There's no lack of good review sites to emulate.

    He also recommends something few marketers do not do, in my opinion. That is
    to buy the product and give it an honest review. If you think about it, you'll actually
    be ahead of the others who promote Jamorama with nary a clue about it because
    they did NOT buy it.

    If you get it, then you'll be writing without BS'ing people in your copy. And that will
    come through on a more intuitive level with your readers. That will help you make
    a better 'connection' with them and thus more likely to produce a sale.

    Give it some serious thought.

    PS-- Your post was not there when I wrote this post. Ok, it's all ok and good.
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      Shaun,

      Mr. Scott's advice about structuring as a review may be a better way for you
      to get going with this. You seem to have some difficulty with the presell concept. Of
      course that's understandable considering your overall limited experience.

      There's no lack of good review sites to emulate.

      He also recommends something few marketers do not do, in my opinion. That is
      to buy the product and give it an honest review. If you think about it, you'll actually
      be ahead of the others who promote Jamorama with nary a clue about it because
      they did NOT buy it.

      If you get it, then you'll be writing without BS'ing people in your copy. And that will
      come through on a more intuitive level with your readers. That will help you make
      a better 'connection' with them and thus more likely to produce a sale.

      Give it some serious thought.

      PS-- Your post was not there when I wrote this post. Ok, it's all ok and good.
      Hello Ken,

      I want to start this reply off by seriously thanking you! You have been supporting me since I started this thread! It's not huge, it's not that important to others, but it's important to me. And you were here all along, thanks, Ken!

      I also agree with Dan that structuring the page as a review is a good option, and getting first-hand experience on that product is great. But the price difference between USD and MYR is huge(1 USD=3.6MYR). Buying and reviewing it is near-impossible.

      So, is the new copy at least better than the previous ones? It might need to be remade, or fine-tuned, but I am determined to make this work!

      Regards,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Shaun,

    Here's a couple of ideas:

    1. Buy the product through your own affiliate link.

    2. Buy it, review it and return it.

    3. Ask the merchant for a free copy so you can create an affiliate page.

    I don't recommend this stuff as USUAL behavior, but if you honestly and truly can't afford it, it may be the best way to go.

    At least that way you're honestly reviewing the product.

    Better to ask the owner's permission though. If they're smart, they'll let you do it.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      Shaun,

      Here's a couple of ideas:

      1. Buy the product through your own affiliate link.

      2. Buy it, review it and return it.

      3. Ask the merchant for a free copy so you can create an affiliate page.

      I don't recommend this stuff as USUAL behavior, but if you honestly and truly can't afford it, it may be the best way to go.

      At least that way you're honestly reviewing the product.

      Better to ask the owner's permission though. If they're smart, they'll let you do it.

      -Dan
      Hi Dan,

      Buying the product through my affiliate link still costs a bomb(it's really that expensive, imagine multiplying everything you're getting by a factor of 3.6 and you'll get what I mean).

      Buying it, reviewing it and then refunding is just unethical...

      I could try to ask the seller to give me a free copy, but there are 12 months of lessons in Jamorama! Also, I think I won't benefit that much because I'm an actual guitar player too.

      Thanks for your suggestion and help!

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        So buying it and refunding it is unethical... but endorsing something you've never used isn't?

        Being a guitar player should HELP you evaluate how good it is.

        You think $360 ($100 x 3.6) is expensive? Dude, one of my saxophones is worth about $8 000 USD.

        I paid $500 for a perfect pitch course last year (it was good though).

        Unless you state CLEARLY that you've never used the product... well, I have a serious ethical problem with what you're doing.

        -Dan

        Originally Posted by SRLee View Post

        Hi Dan,

        Buying the product through my affiliate link still costs a bomb(it's really that expensive, imagine multiplying everything you're getting by a factor of 3.6 and you'll get what I mean).

        Buying it, reviewing it and then refunding is just unethical...

        I could try to ask the seller to give me a free copy, but there are 12 months of lessons in Jamorama! Also, I think I won't benefit that much because I'm an actual guitar player too.

        Thanks for your suggestion and help!

        Sincerely,
        Shaun
        Signature

        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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        • Profile picture of the author SRLee
          Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

          So buying it and refunding it is unethical... but endorsing something you've never used isn't?

          Being a guitar player should HELP you evaluate how good it is.

          You think $360 ($100 x 3.6) is expensive? Dude, one of my saxophones is worth about $8 000 USD.

          I paid $500 for a perfect pitch course last year (it was good though).

          Unless you state CLEARLY that you've never used the product... well, I have a serious ethical problem with what you're doing.

          -Dan
          Hello Dan, thanks again for your feedback!

          When you put it that way, it does seem kind of odd...

          Dan, not everyone can afford things like you can. You have succeeded in your life, but I haven't. I'm still a teen, and I don't even have access to credit cards. It's cool you have a $8000 Saxophone, but it doesn't concern me.

          You paid $500 for a course, you are satisfied, nice and great. What you pay is what you got. That's great for you! But I don't see how it relates to a teenager trying to make his first sale through the internet, sorry.

          Pertaining to the bolded part, I never state that I never used the product in my landing page.

          I'm just telling you that not everyone is as rich as you are, and not everyone has massive buckets of liquid cash in hand. You have reached your destination, but I'm just starting to take off. Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely cool that you are rich, though.

          It's nothing personal.

          Sincerely,
          Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    Please provide some feedback!
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  • Profile picture of the author GodsGeneral
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by GodsGeneral View Post

      Hey,


      Well. It still does not look like anything I would trust. The color scheme is just making me uncomfortable.


      What you need to do is not use a blog like this as a pre-sell. You are writing a sales page in essence. The prospect is basically going through two sales pages, and that is BAD.


      You should make a mini-site giving away a free book about guitar playing that shows all the basic chords what not and them with your affiliate url as a one time offer. That ALWAYS works.
      Hi GodsGeneral, thanks for your input!

      The color scheme... What color would be better?

      What includes the essense of a Sales Page? I already dropped the Sales Page Style Subtitles...

      Regarding the mini-site, the idea is great! But the problem is, I got no cash to get a mini-site. Not even $10 for the domain name. I think I'll compile one eBook of chords, then do as you said.

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author SRLee
    More feedbacks, please!

    -Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Howell
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    • Profile picture of the author SRLee
      Originally Posted by Ashley Howell View Post

      hey i just looked at your presell page and im a newbie struggling to write my own but I've looked at some presell pages and most people just jump right into what their customers main problems are so i think you should eliminate most of your beginning and add the part starting at The main reason you are..............
      Hi Ashley, thanks for your feedback!

      Actually, I dropped this project a week ago, to start another project. I didn't thought there would be any replies in this disappeared thread. :p

      Regardless, thanks for your feedback(again)!

      Sincerely,
      Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Hey there...

    Still working on this? I read it and it looks much better than your first effort. It really
    does. It flows better, is more conversational, and you actually got me for a second
    there when you said 'master the guitar in 5 minutes.' lol.

    I started thinking, 'you gotta be kidding me.' lol

    But it was good.

    You need a space between these two lines:

    With the achievements I've had, I can jump and avoid these "brick walls" eyes closed.
    You can't, though. You'd probably run into more walls if you dare close your eyes!

    Either a space or fix the spacing between them.

    You may want to consider link cloaking to hide the affiliate url. Up to you. You also
    may want to eventually use a script for tracking clicks. That way you can see how
    well this copy is converting. It's a good idea.

    So... I say cut this baby loose. You've been working on it long enough. No need to
    waste any more time trying for perfection. Although you did have some things to
    work on with your copy.

    I think you've done a good job, here. So start promoting it. Like... today. You can
    always make tweeks to it later.

    Good luck and good job, dude.
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