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Writing on spec....

by GordonJ
17 replies
Well, since I shot my mouth off about this being a copyWRITING section, here is a polarizing subject...

Spec work.

I may be wrong, but I think the majority opinion here is DON'T do it, but, if that is what most WF copywriters offer, then I'll be the devil's advocate.

One of the fastest ways to get work and establish some cred, is to go ahead and write on spec. This means you are not being paid for the writing assignment, rather you are writing, probably, against some sort of a control.

If you can beat the control, or even get close in some instances, it may garner you an assignment or at least put you into the Rolodex of the marketing company you wrote for.

Sometimes, you might generate a spec piece for a new product or a new market for an old product.

Getting assignments and getting paid is the goal, and the thing that many newer copywriters struggle with, and the usual suspects say...

DON'T undervalue your writing. Charge what you are worth, it is about positioning AND all that. I'll be Verbal Kint aka Keyser Soze (cult movie reference) and advise you to give it a try.

IF you don't have a portfolio, just starting out, or need a job, consider writing a piece on spec, and use your persuasive writing skills to find someone to give it a chance.

Now, for the line-up. Tell us why this is a bad idea?

GordonJ
#spec #writing
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    In the circumstance you describe, it's a good idea.

    If a newbie copywriter has a coach who works closely with him and reviews his work, it isn't. He knows his final products will be good, so he confidently charge good fees right out of the starting gate.

    Back in the day, I worked on spec a couple times. But neither client believed in buying traffic... lesson learned.

    So after them, I stopped working on spec.

    The best deal I was offered during that time was a healthy percentage of each item sold of an item that went for $5K a clip. And this guy was quite willing to buy traffic. But I didn't go with it... he was selling proprietary investment software guaranteed to return 20%, No thanks. I didn't want to be included when the inevitable meeting with the SEC occurred.

    Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

      In the circumstance you describe, it's a good idea.

      If a newbie copywriter has a coach who works closely with him and reviews his work, it isn't. He knows his final products will be good, so he confidently charge good fees right out of the starting gate.

      Back in the day, I worked on spec a couple times. But neither client believed in buying traffic... lesson learned.

      So after them, I stopped working on spec.

      The best deal I was offered during that time was a healthy percentage of each item sold of an item that went for $5K a clip. And this guy was quite willing to buy traffic. But I didn't go with it... he was selling proprietary investment software guaranteed to return 20%, No thanks. I didn't want to be included when the inevitable meeting with the SEC occurred.

      Alex
      Well, the guy with the coach who knows his final product is good...

      still needs to get work.

      So, if the coach helps his guy find work, then that is wonderful....but, if the guy has to find work on his own (and can't), then his higher prices, getting what your worth, and not selling your self short is just a bunch of hooey, isn't it?

      Wish I had some of that coaching money from the people who have contacted me after paying this guru or that one 3 to 5k to position himself as a higher priced copywriter,

      I ALWAYS send them back to the wishing well where they threw their money in.

      Let's hear from some of those who have/had a coach and see what their results have been, anyone?

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    I agree with you... if a coach only teaches the student copywriting, that's not enough.

    A copywriting coach should cover...

    1. How to write persuasive sales copy
    2. How to get clients
    3. And how to work with clients.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author HandsomeGenius
    As a copywriter working for a client, you're not in control of all factors contributing to the success of the work. You have a lot of control of the copy - and that's a big thing - but it's hardly everything.

    So it's a bad idea to wear all the risk.

    The client needs skin in the game or they won't value the work enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by HandsomeGenius View Post

      As a copywriter working for a client, you're not in control of all factors contributing to the success of the work. You have a lot of control of the copy - and that's a big thing - but it's hardly everything.

      So it's a bad idea to wear all the risk.

      The client needs skin in the game or they won't value the work enough.
      A full page ad in USA TODAY (regional) used to cost 10 grand, not including the price to create the ad.

      A direct mail piece costs thousands.

      A full page ad in AARP could run 250,000 bux, not that anyone would test spec copy there, but in the big world outside of IM, there is big MONEY being spent to find copy that works.

      SKIN IN THE GAME, is hardly the fee one would pay a copywriter.

      Please, I advise YOU, to never write on spec. Too risky.

      GordonJ

      PS. Even in IM where the costs are far cheaper than off line, the marketer has all the skin in the game via his Internet funnel set-up.

      RISK??!

      A TEST on a direct mail piece would cost several thousand dollars, and if close to break even, may be tested again. MORE money spent by the MARKETER. YOU, the copywriter have spent some time.
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      • Profile picture of the author HandsomeGenius
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        A full page ad in USA TODAY (regional) used to cost 10 grand, not including the price to create the ad.

        A direct mail piece costs thousands.

        A full page ad in AARP could run 250,000 bux, not that anyone would test spec copy there, but in the big world outside of IM, there is big MONEY being spent to find copy that works.

        SKIN IN THE GAME, is hardly the fee one would pay a copywriter.

        Please, I advise YOU, to never write on spec. Too risky.

        GordonJ

        PS. Even in IM where the costs are far cheaper than off line, the marketer has all the skin in the game via his Internet funnel set-up.

        RISK??!

        A TEST on a direct mail piece would cost several thousand dollars, and if close to break even, may be tested again. MORE money spent by the MARKETER. YOU, the copywriter have spent some time.
        Anyone who has that much skin in the game already is not going to be quibbling over a professional's hourly fee.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    So…the client is honest and has an exceptional product (all this checks out).

    And is going to to cobble together an ok promotion (not too bad, but not exactly good - great).

    And throw bundles and bundles of money at targeted traffic.

    He/she gives you a call and says, "This is the only deal I can offer - so don't ask for anything else - would you write an "epic" and we''ll agree a "good" royalty on all sales?" (I did say the client was honest and will pay).

    Would you say yes or no?


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter View Post

      So…the client is honest and has an exceptional product (all this checks out).

      And is going to to cobble together an ok promotion (not too bad, but not exactly good - great).

      And throw bundles and bundles of money at targeted traffic.

      He/she gives you a call and says, "This is the only deal I can offer - so don't ask for anything else - would you write an "epic" and we''ll agree a "good" royalty on all sales?" (I did say the client was honest and will pay).

      Would you say yes or no?

      Steve
      I use the term Copywriter to include those who work in the real world and not just those who specialize on WSO, IM, MMO and all things Warrior type copy.

      REAL companies, with big budgets, don't "cobble together" anything. I've never experienced anywhere near your scenario. They don't throw money at traffic, they have TARGETED expenditures, and test to the nth degree.

      Also, in the real world, and dealing with real marketers, there seldom is a take it or leave it deal, BUT, if the contract is solid, everything is in writing, the i's dotted, the t's crossed and the outcome worth while...I'd consider your very unrealistic and myopic IM choices.

      Only in the fantasy world of Writing Copy as a Biz-Op, where the 6 figures a year is easy to come by, just churn out Clickbank winners and VOILA, there you go.

      NO. I include copywriters who do direct response, catalog, sheet catalog, collateral materials, BUT, the writer who CAN either beat a control, or come up with breakthrough, has no fear of writing on Spec mainly because she isn't dealing with the typical IMer.

      We all tend to speak from our own experiences, of course, but I like to let the newbs know there is more out there for the writer of good copy than writing WSO's and IM stuff.

      Again, if the reader is getting all the high price work they can, and people pay their prices without blinking, more power to them. I doubt that is the case for most people reading this here, however.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I use the term Copywriter to include those who work in the real world and not just those who specialize on WSO, IM, MMO and all things Warrior type copy.

        REAL companies, with big budgets, don't "cobble together" anything. I've never experienced anywhere near your scenario. They don't throw money at traffic, they have TARGETED expenditures, and test to the nth degree.
        You might be surprised what kind of irrational nonsense corporations with big marketing budgets can get up to. Real companies. Some of 'em run by real big {insert name of choice here}.
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    My question would be, why write only whatya gotta do?

    The end you're chasin' there has no place in its means for anythin' you don't gotta do.

    So where is your exploratory terrain here?

    Where is the ground devoida footprints?

    Spec ground lies always beyond what your feet have felt beneath 'em already, as does anyone else's visiona the future, so prolly it makes senseta figure on sum original stance toward mattersafact (eg a web page reads crap) than trust to sumone else's versiona that mattersafact — especially whenya consider how Big Time mattersafact (ie the Cosmos snuffin' out all mankind cos we never figured out how to go the distance) has utter disregard for whatever we wish or do.

    Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take a side.

    Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take aside.

    Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to make an aside.

    Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take an aside.

    Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to make, aside.

    * ooh ooh — it's a QUIZ!!! *

    It is how humans step on

    as the past's lifeless asteroids collide.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      My question would be, why write only whatya gotta do?

      The end you're chasin' there has no place in its means for anythin' you don't gotta do.

      So where is your exploratory terrain here?

      Where is the ground devoida footprints?

      Spec ground lies always beyond what your feet have felt beneath 'em already, as does anyone else's visiona the future, so prolly it makes senseta figure on sum original stance toward mattersafact (eg a web page reads crap) than trust to sumone else's versiona that mattersafact -- especially whenya consider how Big Time mattersafact (ie the Cosmos snuffin' out all mankind cos we never figured out how to go the distance) has utter disregard for whatever we wish or do.

      Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take a side.

      Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take aside.

      Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to make an aside.

      Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to take an aside.

      Speculation is benevolent ingratitude prepared to make, aside.

      * ooh ooh -- it's a QUIZ!!! *

      It is how humans step on

      as the past's lifeless asteroids collide.
      Speculation, could be benevolent cashola in the bank,
      which frees one to pursue
      more cosmos
      adventures.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Speculation, could be benevolent cashola in the bank,
        which frees one to pursue
        more cosmos
        adventures.

        GordonJ
        I demand rhymes!

        Speculation, benevolent cashola,
        gleams brigher with evry washola.
        Signature

        Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

          I demand rhymes!

          Speculation, benevolent cashola,
          gleams brigher with evry washola.
          Me is a free
          verse man
          do what I can
          succinctly
          explicitly
          economically
          clearly
          no fan of rhyme
          rhythm or time
          pan the gold
          simply told
          no onomatopoeia
          rest assured no assonance
          or alliteration allowed
          ignore iamb
          feet, metre and form
          do
          me. Sorry.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Me is a free
            verse man
            do what I can
            succinctly
            explicitly
            economically
            clearly
            no fan of rhyme
            rhythm or time
            pan the gold
            simply told
            no onomatopoeia
            rest assured no assonance
            or alliteration allowed
            ignore iamb
            feet, metre and form
            do
            me. Sorry.

            GordonJ
            Love this, you gotta know.

            Thing is,

            I do not believe

            in a dead wheelbarrow.
            Signature

            Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Prolly WF should fix up a Writin' Exercise section insteada hidin' secrets away in a Vault.

    Rewrite Anything You Want --
    And If The Big Boys Love You, Everyone Gets Paid

    Sounds entreprenoorial enough to me as a headline, for all three parties.

    Naturally, you go rewrite Apple, jus' to see what happens -- or speculation an' capitulation merge prefixes in favor of unphoenixery.

    Ha!

    But this will not happen.

    When I floated L'il Punkin a while back before Pokemon Go got evryone huntin' around for cutesy creatures gonna earn 'em points an' kudos, I got a slap offa WF.

    I loved that chipmunk.

    He was such a scamp.

    The future of television is here.

    ffs.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Thing is, how much longer can Apple ride on bein' "the future" when their most quotable innovator became quotable no more?

    How can we "think different" with respect to sumthin' ubiquitous?

    I would wanna rewrite Apple's "The Future Of Television Is Here" copy on a pointa order — jus' to kinda save those guys from themselves come the day when tattoos smella Mozart and all is lost cos L'Oreal invented sum Hair2Brain HeartSmartz "System" for unifyin' alla your split ends — sans irritatin' touchscreen.

    Thing is, it is not inevitable that the futurea TV got Apple all over it.

    Rub against that undeniable truth, you gotta be vulnerable an' florid, seep deep under uncertainty's most proclamatory shell.

    I dunno, if Apple ain't up for that, mebbe we could rewrite Nike?

    Or do sumthin' about Simon Cowell's unenticingly flaunted facial hair c/o sum kinda nouveau trapdoor mythology.

    Aw, please, I am only bein' playful here, but I guess that is always how things go.

    You gotta toy with stuff till it stops movin' onya.

    Sumone gonna rewrite that 'fyootchooratelevision' crap soon, gonna crank up the Speculativomiter on your Applea-i expectations.

    Don't wanna play, you get merely to quote the -Vomiter.

    I wanna hope my exuberance on this issue is not confoosed with imbecility, hubris or anythin' I am clearly so stoopid to not recognize in myself, here, 9/7/16, half eaten noodle morass beached in sum silver tray.

    Ha!

    Such is my speculatory optimism.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    It’s not my favorite subject but I thought of - A Mathematical Equation.


    Lets say there’s 20 (give or take) mega direct response companies.

    You don't often see massive recruitment drives…because…they're...

    Stuffed full of copywriters.

    But anyone can of course offer to beat the “controls”

    And given the chance - slim though it might be - they may well do so.

    (It’s a tough call. The company has to spend $5,000 plus in running the “new” promo. And it’s widely said the most proven way to oust a control is to make a “better offer” – something the existing writers can do in a few minutes)


    Or…


    There’s 10,000,001 (give or take) medium to large businesses - it would be fair to say they wouldn't say no to a hefty boost in revenues.

    Most have ads, brochures, websites, emails, sales letters that aren't preforming anywhere near as well as they should or could be.

    Many don’t even know what a copywriter is or does.

    It doesn’t take too long to explain.

    Armed with this knowledge (or if they were aware how vital great promo's are) the owners can ask the copywriter to create or beat a “control.”

    And be stunned with the continuous surge of profitable new business.

    Usually they are more than willing to pay excellent fees for this happy situation.


    Choose the option you think might be dash quicker and a touch easier.


    Steve
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