Recommendations for Copywriters

by ep2002
12 replies
So I'm looking for a good copywriter for my client. Someone who puts their EGO aside & respects the client.

I'm not looking for hardcore shove it in their face type sales copy.

More the subtle emotional copywriting that gets the call to action without them even realizing it.

Any recommendations from people who aren't affiliates getting paid to recommend?

Thanks
#copywriters #recommendations
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Originally Posted by ep2002 View Post

    So I'm looking for a good copywriter for my client. Someone who puts their EGO aside & respects the client.

    I'm not looking for hardcore shove it in their face type sales copy.

    More the subtle emotional copywriting that gets the call to action without them even realizing it.

    Any recommendations from people who aren't affiliates getting paid to recommend?

    Thanks
    Assuming you're looking for a genuine copywriter, who can increase your sales (and not just a one-size-fits-all type of writer) you might want to get a bit more specific about the type of writer your looking for. And the niche... client... target market... product (service)...


    These days, most "genuine" sales writers I know, will specialize in one (or more) niches. Whereas a generalized writer will offer to write for any niche, because they think they can simply fill the page with fancy adjectives and hype, and instantly create compelling copy.

    Now, that doesn't mean as good saleswriters we can't expand our territory, because consumer psychology crosses nearly all boundaries. But (for example) I would not be your ideal writer if you're looking for someone in the overcrowded MMO niche. Sure I could write for it, but I just don't want to, and others would be more qualified for the job.


    Also beware... there's a few million low end content writers on the web, calling themselves copywriters. And your general post here is likely to attract a bunch of them.

    One of the biggest problems we have today, is the sheer number of low end writers on the internet.

    There's millions of freelancers out there, calling themselves "copywriters" who will sell you a sales page for $75 or $100 (or even less).

    But most of it is just regurgitated crap they copied and pasted from somewhere else. And they only change a couple words to make it look unique, (like they wrote it just for you)

    On rare occasions, you get lucky, and the copy actually works. But if it doesn't produce results... they have no idea why not, or how to fix it. And most of the time, they don't really care anyway. Because for cheap money, what were you honestly expecting to get?


    I'm sure you already know this, (but I'll say it just in case). Successful copywriting - the kind that produces measurable results - is the product of skill, talent, creativity, psychology, experience, and effort, (and maybe just a touch of magic).

    There's also a number of time-consuming factors that go into the total cost of professional copywriting.

    Things that need to be considered before the first word is ever typed out.

    Starting with research:

    - market research,

    - product research,

    - researching the competition to determine what they're offering, and how to make your offer different,

    - researching what your target market already wants, and figuring out how to connect your offer with those desires.



    There's also the technical skills of proper spelling, grammar and syntax. Along with the time it takes to properly edit and polish the copy.

    Then there's testing the copy, measuring the results, and determining which parts to tweak in an effort to improve the results.


    If you don't get a good response...Why not?

    Was it the market? The message? The medium? The timing?

    All of these things need to be considered to make advertising work.


    One thing that's more expensive than a good copywriter, is paying for advertising that doesn't work (and not knowing how to make it work)


    So if you're looking for a "good" saleswriter... Just be prepared to spend more than $100


    Anyway, good luck on your search. Let me know if I can answer any more of your (specific) questions

    All the best,
    SAR
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Be prepared to (or have your client be prepared to) make a significant investment.

    You are NOT going to get a good copywriter for under $1000 and probably not under $3000.

    Experienced copywriters may not give you samples. I don't provide samples because people rip them off and try to turn them into some kind of Frankenstein Monster copy.

    So what do you look and listen for that tells you "this is your writer"?

    The questions they ask.

    Inexperienced writers who only know the hypey IM tone and cannot write any other style...and cannot replicate someone else's voice...will just ask for the money. Their intention is to write a draft and "throw it over the wall" to you. Then they're gone.

    Does that sound like the kind of relationship you want with your writer?

    A competent writer will proceed SLOWLY. Cautiously. They will want to check YOU out. Why? Because it's their reputation, and they do not want to connect their reputation to a project that has no chance of success. (Word to the wise: most projects I've seen on here have little chance of success. The usual reason is that they don't have a traffic source set up. The client has no idea where their pre-qualified stream of leads is coming from. I don't care how great your offer sounds to you; if you don't know where you're getting leads from, I'm not putting my conversion tool in front of the unsteady, low quality fit dribble and then having you say, "It didn't work.")

    So expect questions. Who's your avatar / ideal customer? What are their pain points? What state are they in when they arrive at your offer--unaware, aware but don't know your brand, eager to know more about your specific brand, or what? What's their money tolerance / how much price elasticity do we have? (I'm educating newbies here. Now they'll become soundalikes. Oh well...)

    Expect these questions and more like them over and over from good writers. It's a sale in both directions. You have to sell them on why they should take on your project. Have the answers ready. Do not resent them asking. I have high level clients like investment bankers and factory managers who initially flipped out because they were asked the same questions more than once by different experts wanting to understand the lay of the land. It took them awhile to calm down and understand what was going on from the other person's point of view. For each expert, this was the first time they asked these questions no matter how many times the client had been asked them before. The faster you and your client can make this transition, the faster you'll get yourself a good writer working for you.

    Talk is cheap and many people are full of BS. I responded to an ad on here recently looking for coaching and discovered the guy had no money. What the hell was he doing posting for coaching help when he was broke?! We have to sift through this stuff every day. So the more you and your client can do to show up as legitimate, stable, real and ready to commit, the more you are going to get commitment in return.

    And that is another key factor a good, experienced copywriter will provide you with that a newbie / low budget writer cannot: stick-to-it-iveness. See, I don't care how great a writer you are...we all screw up. Our first attempts are not always huge wins. It can take one, two, or even three or more iterations to hit on the right 'hook' or close and get the funnel running.

    Your weak writer who "throws their draft over the wall and runs"? You'll never see them again. You're stuck with their one attempt and hey I hope it works for you. It might be the home run you wish for. But it probably won't because these things need iteration. That copywriter had better stick with you and you better have given them reason to. Now, it's on both of you to bear responsibility for creating that relationship: the one where you both want to be there and stick around. The buyer and seller are both responsible for the price that was paid and accepted for the scope of work. So if you take on the job as the writer, you have no one to blame but yourself if you find the price too low.

    Ask the writer about their history. Mine includes 15 years as a corporate executive. So when I say I write in the C-suite tone and voice, that statement is backed by this specific experience. I was writing for serious B2B long before I ever heard of IM. A guy whose work history prior to being a coypwriter involves bagging groceries and delivering pizzas (and nothing against those jobs; I delivered pizzas myself for beer money as a second job in the 2000s and made $20+/hour) simply does not have the real world experience to draw from in replicating tone, voice, and customer mindset.

    Expect to take some time to find your writer. I've had a couple referral attempts over the years, and I was busy--I have a consultancy and run another business with a partner--so I didn't respond instantly...and within two hours the buyer had hired another writer. Woah. I don't care how much of a rush you're in: take the time to ensure fit. And if someone's standing around doing nothing like an airport taxi driver, are they really the best? Too Eager = not much going on, or not much experience and haven't been burned.

    So get ready to demonstrate your project is real. That you have a traffic source set up. That you know your target market's pain points--know them, not just believe you think you understand them. That your offer is really powerful and you're confident it will convert. And that you are prepared to invest money and time in your relationship with your copywriter, because iteration #1 might not work so great and you'll have to adjust.

    Many, many writers with only a couple years of experience are out there littering the landscape with the only style of writing they know. And there's a place for them: I cannot sell candied apples, for instance. I'm not the guy to do that. Gadgets and goodies are best served by another kind of writer. Street hawking is somebody else's style and good for them. But for serious B2B tone, you need an expert with real business experience...a person who likely has another skill set than just writing.

    As far as your statement about "affiliates getting paid to recommend," that is an interesting point of view and I have never thought of copywriting in that way before. A writer needs to believe in the product. And copywriting goes far beyond paid-for Amazon testimonials and affiliate funnels.

    I'll conclude with a discussion of what a good writer can do for you. And that's much more than just a sales letter. They can show you how to pre-frame the offer so it's set up in the buyer's mind in the most effective way. They can set up the steps of the funnel so that the buyer is warmed up long before they get to the sales page. And they can give you conversion techniques that have worked for past clients that other writers, particularly the ones who just "throw the copy over the wall and run," don't know because these techniques have nothing to do with writing copy.

    So take your time and ask a lot of questions. Don't be shocked if they say you have to wait to get onto their schedule, and aren't sharing samples. Look to the quality of questions they ask to tell you what level they're operating at. Figure out if they're in this with you for the long haul to make the project succeed, or are looking to do a quick draft turnaround and get outta there.

    "How you do one thing is how you do everything" is a maxim I have seen demonstrated to be true over and over again. Watch how they run their prospect qualification process. If they do a good job there, you can bet they'll do an effective, deliberate job for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author ep2002
      Jason - well my client isn't for you & I need someone for myself & I too am not for you, but thanks for the education.

      I used to look for copywriters many years ago when I had more funds & I already know that 90% are terrible, but I will disagree that just because they charge in the thousands, it doesn't mean they are any good.

      I would NEVER get upset by questions, not unless the person asking them was just being rude.

      And whenever I try to find someone, I'm CONSTANTLY asking for emotional copy & I already know that most of them don't even know what that means which shocks me.

      So we'll agree that almost ALL writers online (article writers too) are terrible, low or high priced.

      Unfortunately if you are a small company, your hands are tied because you may not have the funds for either the writer, SEO, or the marketing & you need to start somewhere.

      I would never blame the copywriter if there was no traffic, that's just stupid.

      Take care
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        Alas, you're one of a kind, almost! Many would and do. Unless it's not their responsibility to drive the traffic. Then they may blame you, the party responsible for driving the traffic or both of yous... and the party responsible for driving the traffic will blame you.

        But you could find some good copywriters on this forum. Cross my heart. Easier, though, if you agree that putting ego aside and respecting your client ain't mutually exclusive.

        Originally Posted by ep2002 View Post


        I would never blame the copywriter if there was no traffic, that's just stupid.

        Take care
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Excellent information from 2 very different gentlemen.
    I get lots of enquiries about copywriting jobs and I have to explain that,although I have done a small amount of copywriting work, it was really just basic sales instead, and the fees I charged reflected that.

    I wish the OP every success and that you should take the advice offered to you as a guide in your endeavour to find the perfect match for your job.
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    Cheers, Laurence. Writer/Editor/Proofreader.
    Website / Blog for more info.

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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    This will surprise the pants off of you but...

    here...

    on this forum...

    there are copywriters, some good, that you can check out yourself...

    stevethecopywriter...
    angie...
    rick druris...
    and quite a few others.

    Ask them.
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    • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      This will surprise the pants off of you but...

      here...

      on this forum...

      there are copywriters, some good, that you can check out yourself...

      stevethecopywriter...
      angie...
      rick druris...
      and quite a few others.

      Ask them.

      and considering the OP has been a member here for 10 years and should know the basics and the groups, well there's no more to be said!
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      Cheers, Laurence. Writer/Editor/Proofreader.
      Website / Blog for more info.

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  • Profile picture of the author Gopal Sengar
    Hey ep2002
    I know that it's very hard to find a copywriter like you mentioned and have requirements for. Well, I am happy that I am able to answer this question. Yes, you can find such copywriters from a plenty of reputable freelancing sites on the Internet. Some of the leading ones are mentioned below, I hope you find him/her here:
    1: Contentmart.com (offers a wide range of Verified and hand-picked writers from all over the world)
    2: Freelancer.com (Its database is heavy enough to assist you with the best of the writers).
    3: Upwork (A place to find the desired services easily)
    4: Truelancer ( This is also a free to use Freelance portal)

    I hope this helps you.
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    • Profile picture of the author ep2002
      Thank you Gopal, 2 I never heard of before. Freelancer I'd never use & Upwork no one bids, but thanks.
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  • Originally Posted by ep2002 View Post

    So I'm looking for a good copywriter for my client. Someone who puts their EGO aside & respects the client.

    Anywan respects the client speaks direct 2em. Whatchyoo wan' outta this? As a (pre-ForumAsk) Gobitween?

    I'm not looking for hardcore shove it in their face type sales copy.

    So ... lame & creepy ... via skin pores ... as fired from gunsa Planet Nowhere? Prolly that is sum dumb kinda science.

    More the subtle emotional copywriting that gets the call to action without them even realizing it.

    How immodest I am to smack u ass in the chops so evidently.

    Any recommendations from people who aren't affiliates getting paid to recommend?

    You want that printed on yr MOTIVATION T-shirt? Actschwlly?

    Thanks
    Thing is, either we kinda fired up or we is dead.

    EGO Aside never got anythin' said.

    Or whoya quotin' from outta the drivelswamp?
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    Originally Posted by ep2002 View Post

    So I'm looking for a good copywriter for my client. Someone who puts their EGO aside & respects the client.

    I'm not looking for hardcore shove it in their face type sales copy.

    More the subtle emotional copywriting that gets the call to action without them even realizing it.

    Any recommendations from people who aren't affiliates getting paid to recommend?

    Thanks
    If you're serious about finding a copywriter, read a good book on copywriting... Then check Google and LinkedIn for freelancers in your specialty. See how they pitch their services. Check out projects they've worked on... Compare their copy to what you know about good sales writing and marketing. Take your time, then choose.

    Copywriting isn't wizardry. You can spot good copywriting if you know just a little about sales & marketing. It's easy to pick a good copywriter, even if you're not a great writer yourself.

    ...& oh yeah -- Like the posts above say: everybody & his uncle is a copywriter these days. And they're all the absolute best at what they do and have all earned all their clients millions of $$... At least that's what they say...

    ...But you should know better. Step One to finding a decent copywriter is to know decent copy when you see it... not being sold by bluster... Grab a decent book, like Bob Bly's "The Copywriter's Handbook"...

    No insult intended ... I'm only presuming you haven't already studied up on copywriting because you're fishing for copywriters on an open forum, rather than doing more productive legwork, like checking LinkedIn and Google...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jessica Amboos
    You can always try resume and job posting sites. There are tons of workers you can choose from with different levels of skills. And you can also choose workers who are highly recommended to be excellent hires from their previous employers.
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