David Garfinkel on storytelling

I know you'll say I'm full of **** when you read this, but this is a true story...

I spent 5 crazy days in Panama City, Panama back in January. The agenda was partying, fishing and relaxing. I was not disappointed. Something happened to me that you're not going to believe. Hell, I didn't believe it myself because **** like this does NOT happen in the states.

I was staying at the Hilton, which used to be Caesar's Palace. Naturally, it has a casino
which rivals a Vegas hotel. I'd finish every night in the casino before taking the elevator to crash till noon the next day. My third night there was ending like most of them, just playing some slots and blackjack. While pumping quarters into a slot machine, I noticed movement to my right...

I'll tell you right now, I love the Latin senoritas. I think they're the most passionate and beautiful women in the world. And one of the most beautiful ones I'd ever seen just sat down 2 machines away. She had gorgeous mocha skin accented by gold bangles and necklace. Her brown hair was highlighted blond. And the way she filled out her jeans... J-Lo would be jealous.

As I look at her, our eyes meet and she breaks into a dazzling smile, her red lips part and she says softly, "Hola..."

I replied "Hola, como estas?" and I figured that would be about it because that was about all the Spanish I knew. Being a married man, I cashed out that machine and headed for the elevator before I did something crazy. As I left the casino and rounded the corner to the elevators, I thought I caught a glimpse of blond hair behind me. I pushed the up button and thank God, the door opened immediately.

I pushed 14 and then began pounding the "Door Close" button. Finally, the doors started closing and I breathed a sigh of relief. I was a bit premature.

Six inches from safety, her golden brown hand, long slender fingers, bright red nails and gold bracelets, shot into my safe room. The doors opened back up and there she was, smiling at me.

She walked into the elevator and whispered something into my ear. If I post what she said and what happened next here, I'll probably be banned so I've created a separate page to finish the story.

You can check it out at the link below but before you go, I want to give my thoughts on storytelling in copy.

The casino...

You see, I think some of the copywriters posting here are making a big mistake. I think they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the use of the "cliffhanger".

The purpose of the cliffhanger is to get you to "hang on" until you get back to the exciting stuff. You see this all the time on television. Before the news goes to commercial, they tell you what's coming up next and it will usually be the story they've promoted all day long. Its the only one you want to see.

They want to make damn sure you "hang on" through the boring commercials because you'll be too afraid to leave and miss the exciting stuff. And before the DVR, we had no choice. But let me ask you, what do you do if you've Tivo'd the news? You hit the advance button and pop right through all the commercials and get to the story, right?

Screw hanging on when I can fast-forward!

In a long sales letter, you've always got a Tivo button. We call it "Page-Down".

When you break your story up into a parts and fill the intermissions with "commercials" for your product, you're begging them to "Tivo" right past the sales copy. And the better story teller you are, the more likely this is to occur.

Now, did you click the link before reading this part? My money says you did. Joe Sugarman's money does too. If you've read "Triggers", he tells a very similar story and does exactly what I did with the link.

Folks, this is NOT creating a greased slide. Its creating a ramp to jump right over your sales copy.

Tell the damn story in its entirety, right up front.

The purpose is to get them interested. If you do that, they'll keep on reading. I've proven it time and again but you don't have to believe me, Garfinkle did it in his video. He didn't break the cinnamon toothpick story into parts. He told it all and then he told you why it works.

And if you look at Sugarman's copy, he does the same thing.

The key to telling stories is to keep them interesting by adding conflict, tension and plot. My recommended book to learn these techniques is "20 Master Plots and How To Build Them" by Ronald B. Tobias.

I love stories in copy. I won't write a letter without them. But you'll never see me add easily defeated cliffhangers which encourage my readers to jump over the important stuff.

Good luck.

PS: My story is true right up to the point where she followed me to the elevator... dammit

Hmm... so if Marcia offers her opinion, she's "bashing" David, which is apparently a terrible thing to do.

But bashing Marcia multiple times in return is OK, apparently. I like David's work a lot, but piling on somebody for merely expressing an opinion that's below the level of ecstatic praise is unnecessary.

Hi Matt, I'm not familiar with the examples you cited.

But Harlan is a member of this board. And Vitale, if you hit Borders or Barnes & Noble has a ton of marketing books to his name. For me they're a bit too rabid in their cross-promotion of his products, but you can find little gems of wisdom here and there.

That's what I found in the nestled loops chapter in the book I pointed you to above.

All the best with your study.

--- Ross

Originally Posted by Matt_L Interested to learn more about who and what you wrote about, I searched for Harlan K and found this on You Tube. (you can find it by searching for A Copywriters Life Becoming A Copywriter Copywriting Coach ) Is this the right Harlan K? Unless this was a parody or attempt at comedy, of which there is no mention, this video stamps a big fat question mark across his credibility. If this is the Harlan K. you wrote about, is it his copy techniques and not his business that we should study? (Not that I question his business ethics beyond the cheesy video - as I've never met or heard of the man before this cursory dive.) I found a sales page featuring Joe Vitale -- search for secret russian wishmaker to see it. Once you get past the silliness of the product, I expect that this is an example of good copywriting and storytelling? I see a lot of cliff hangers and tack jumping. (I accept that silliness is objective and relative. Only seeking to learn here. Hopefully the spirit of the forum remains lofty.

Oh please, just for a moment, bear with me. It's rather paradoxical, but if you stick with me here you will learn and you'll be able to apply.

First, to get this out of the way: I am not Joe Vitale or Harlan Kilstein. I am not them. I make no comments, critiques or judgments about either.

Those of you who have talked with me know this:

My communication is NOT based upon manipulation or persuasion in the standard NLP voodoo sort of way you see that's popular. It just isn't. And yours doesn't have to be either. You can feel good about communicating effectively and congruently using NLP.

Here... let's work through this... because it's obvious to me, when it comes to NLP, people are conflicted. They think using an NLP strategy like "embedded commands" for instance, they think they will magically put people in a robotic trance in their copy and they get people to buy.

BS. BS. BS.

Double BS.

Show me one sales letter like that and I'll show you 10,000 people who rejected the lettter and who say "BS!" as well and called the writer a scammer.

Do not underestimate your your reader or prospect. Ever. They are not dumb. They are not naive. They are not ignorant.

So saying things like "So when is now a good time to buy my product?" is just plain stupid.

Don't do it. Just don't do it. It will come back to haunt you, via buyer's remorse and chargebacks.

There is a right way, a good way, to use NLP. An effective way.

Let me share.

Initally when NLP was young it was about modeling the best communicators. Like Virgina Satir, a psychotherapist. Or Fritz Perls, also a psychotherapist. Or Milton Erickson, a hypnotherapist. People who helped others get well or resolved family conflicts.

They had personal, intuitive, almost psychic ways of communicating so that their patients achieved the resullts they WANTED quickly. Richard Bandler and John Grinder modeled them. Richard and John broke down their communication in ways previous unknown before. Many others who are very good have followed and have expanded the discipline.

It's amazing, and they created a whole new way of thinking about communication.

Since then, some people have misapplied and misappropriated their strategies. You see books about sexual seduction, sales and copywriting using NLP. And in my world, it's ALL BS.

That's right.

I said ALL of it. No matter what book you pick, they lack integrity and it feels, in my words, "icky." Like "Ewwwwww... you're kinda creepy, get away from me!" Like you're "pulling the wool" over someone's eyes.

F*** that. And I mean that in the sincerest of ways.

I will give you now the distinction that makes all the difference:

To the point: With NLP, you can not be, you must not be, SELFISH. You must come from the heart--and have your customers, patients or Clients' best and highest interests at heart.

Do that, and you can use all of the NLP resources, strategy and tacics effectively and congruently.

Last idea and then I'll stop.

When I was a kid, seven, maybe eight years old, my grandmother, Grandma Duris, locked herself in room. She was pissed off at something. I don't remember what it was, but she locked herself away for three days straight and wasn't budging.

My parents were worried. My cousins were worried. My aunts and uncles had no idea how to resolve.

Bottomline, they were thinking LOGICALLY. Trying to trick her into coming out.

Out of the mouth of babes...

After all else was unsuccessful, I went to the bedroom door and I knocked.

"Grandma, are you there?"

"Yes, Ricky."

"Can you come out and play with me? I miss you. I want to play with you."

The door opened... and we played for hours. And I was happy. And she was happy.

My family was amazed. That's as much as I can share for now.

While the questions I asked my Grandma don't sound much like NLP, they have EVERYTHING to do with NLP. Do not underestimate.

- Rick Duris

Yep...that's our Harlan. Making like a beach bum (for the record Harlan - that's not surf - that's slop - I wouldn't even paddle out in those tiddlers :p) -

Hi Bruce,

Sincerely: Your mental flexibility, willingness to learn, discuss and be open minded and even challenge are admirable to me.

- Rick Duris

To paraphrase "O" on a drama-drenched Grant Park election night...

If there is anyone out there... who doubts the ability of story to move people...

This video is your answer...


--- Ross

For the incredible quality posts and info contained within this thread from some of the best of the best copywriters in the business, it deserves in my opinion... another bump to the top of the forum.


Mark Andrews

There's no need to be argumentative on this thread Thomas.

I bumped this thread to the top of the forum again because the original advice offered here by several of the top copywriters on this forum is nothing short of brilliant.

Let's not detract from this please.

Thank you,


Mark Andrews