Copywriting -- 10% Art and 90% Science?

16 years ago

It's definitely a combination of art and science, but I think the numbers are a little closer than you do. In fact, I think it's 70% art and 30% science.

After all, copywriting (or any kind of writing) requires natural ability. Yes, you need professional training to get all of the "rules" down, but if you don't have the natural ability, all of the learning/training/practicing in the world isn't going to make you a good writer.

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GenerousBoy

16 years ago

As a senior copywriter working in top London agencies, I can tell you it's almost the other way round. Yes, you need to learn seo if writing for the web, but this isn't science, this craft.

Generous Entrepreneurs Online

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Copydog 16 years ago

Originally Posted by GenerousBoy

Yes, you need to learn seo if writing for the web, but this isn't science, this craft.

Not sure what you mean by "this isn't
science, this craft".

If you mean SEO is an art, yes I agree
with you somewhat.

But there's also "science" (rules) to
follow when writing SEO copy.

The whole point of this thread is, what
percentage of copywriting is "art"
(creativity), and what percentage is
"science" (following tried-and-tested
formulas).

In my view SEO copywriting is more
"science" than "art".

What do you other Warriors think?
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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by GenerousBoy

As a senior copywriter working in top London agencies, I can tell you it's almost the other way round. Yes, you need to learn seo if writing for the web, but this isn't science, this craft.

Generous Entrepreneurs Online

No offence, but are those the agencies which work for results, or awards?

I absolutely disagree you need to learn SEO for web copywriting... and... please explain how SEO would be an art.

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Copydog

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

No offence, but are
those the agencies which work for results, or
awards?

Rezbi

You read my mind -- too much time spent
around Drayton Bird!

Another way to put it is, do those "top London
agencies" make money mainly for THEMSELVES,
or for their CLIENTS?

Just open any popular UK newspaper and look at
some of the full-page "ads" that appear (or watch
some of the ridiculous car ads on TV).

Many (most?) of these come from ad agencies...

But are they an INVESTMENT, or a costly black-hole
LOSS for the business that hired the agency to
write them?

No offence, GenerousBoy, but a lot of ad agencies are,
as Rezbie says, more interested in being "creative" and
winning awards than in making sales for their clients.

Creative ads without a strong SCIENTIFIC foundation,
are like graceful skyscrapers built on a foundation of sand.

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Jag82

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

No offence, GenerousBoy, but a lot of ad agencies are,
as Rezbie says, more interested in being "creative" and
winning awards than in making sales for their clients.

As Drayton Bird will say...if it doesn't sells..it's not creative.

- Jag

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Rezbi 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jag82

As Drayton Bird will say...if it doesn't sells..it's not creative.

- Jag

I think that may have been Ogilvy.
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- Jag82 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Rezbi
  
  I think that may have been Ogilvy.
  
  You are right. Ogilvy said that.
  So did Drayton Bird.
  
  But if you really are into who said that
  first...then it's someone from Benton & Bowles
  advertising agency.
  
  You can find the origin of that quote in
  Ogilvy's "Ogilvy on Advertising" (page 24).
  
  - Jag
  
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  buyfrompowerseller.com 16 years ago
  
  In my opinion, it is 20% art and 80% science. With knowledge and skills that can be learnt, any one can be a copywriter. Their writing should be good enough for search engine (SEO) and average human visitors. Yes the writing may not be good enough for some visitors to make decision but how many people read long and attractive text these days. That job is for pictures and layout designs.
  
  So in conclusion, text should focus more on SEO while pictures and design will convince human
  
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Hesster

16 years ago

It's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration, IMHO.

Anyone can get good at just about anything if they work at it. Can everyone swim like Michael Phelps or jump like Michael Jordan? No, but they can certainly improve their skills enough to be considered proficient if they are willing to put in the time and effort.

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Thomas Michal

16 years ago

I think copywriting is 100% education, knowing what has worked and what does work

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Paul Hancox

16 years ago

I split tested this, and discovered it's 26.7% art, and 73.3% science, rounded to 2 decimal places.

On a more serious note, I do think it's more than 1/10th art... but who says you can't learn art, too?

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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Hancox

I split tested this, and discovered it's 26.7% art, and 73.3% science, rounded to 2 decimal places.

On a more serious note, I do think it's more than 1/10th art... but who says you can't learn art, too?

Actually, Paul, you've got that the other way around: It's 26.3% art, and 73.7% science. Again, rounded to 2 decimal places.

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Bruce Wedding

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

Actually, Paul, you've got that the other way around: It's 26.3% art, and 73.7% science. Again, rounded to 2 decimal places.

Speaking as a science/engineer type guy, I agree 100% that copywriting can be learned and formulaic. Even the creative/artistic part can be done using repeatable, systematic techniques. But you still have to be a strong writer.

PS: You guys do realize that you both said "rounded to 2 decimal places" and then proceeded to round to 1, right?

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Ken Strong 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

PS: You guys do realize that you both said "rounded to 2 decimal places" and then proceeded to round to 1, right?

You have to wait for the upsell pop-up to buy second decimal place.
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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

Speaking as a science/engineer type guy, I agree 100% that copywriting can be learned and formulaic. Even the creative/artistic part can be done using repeatable, systematic techniques. But you still have to be a strong writer.

PS: You guys do realize that you both said "rounded to 2 decimal places" and then proceeded to round to 1, right?

Give me a break, willya?

I'm writer, not mathematishun.

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seoweb2000 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Hancox

I split tested this, and discovered it's 26.7% art, and 73.3% science, rounded to 2 decimal places.

Nice I came out with similar results j/k

I agreed with the OP that it is about 90/10 if not more science than art.
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DPM70

16 years ago

3.141592654 et cetera (and that's without the calculator - although the calculator rounded up the 4 at the end, in my initial memories of being a schoolboy)

It's all pi in the sky.

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RentItNow

16 years ago

1% conscious and 99% subconscious.

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wrcato2

16 years ago

I think anyone that has a natural ability to write can learn copywriting.
Those whom think they want to be a writer set out to try then get bored and quite.
Those who can write write novels.

When I was a pre-teen I use to re-write television ads for fun

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vivifoster

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Is copywriting 1/10th art and 9/10ths science?

If so, practically anyone could be a copywriter --
just learn the rules and follow them.

Or not...

What do you think?

i doubt it to be like that. if it's more of a science then those who are selling for very cheap prices and has a lot of grammatical mistakes should be working really well. i guess it's more of the art than the science. maybe 60%art and 40%science. coz you need to be a great writer who knows what you are talking about to be interesting. and you need to know the technicality for your creativity to be of any use.

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Bruce Wedding

16 years ago

Originally Posted by vivifoster

i doubt it to be like that. if it's more of a science then those who are selling for very cheap prices and has a lot of grammatical mistakes should be working really well. i guess it's more of the art than the science. maybe 60%art and 40%science. coz you need to be a great writer who knows what you are talking about to be interesting. and you need to know the technicality for your creativity to be of any use.

It is a bit hard to accept your argument when you're not speaking from a position of authority.

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jbode

16 years ago

The basis of writing copy is a science - 'follow a process that works'

Once you have that down, you can concentrate on the art... and that will make you a great copywriter

As far as percentages, it depends on the person, some rely more on the science and some rely more on the art

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Snlde 16 years ago

IMHO, I'd say that copywriting is a good mix of the two and it depends on the subject at hand.

If we're writing for something that requires a lot of research, then the percentage will be heavier for the science part. Then there's a lot of understanding the product to take place and finally summarize it into a handful of essential points.

If we're writing for something that everyone relates to, then I believe the art factor kicks in really hard. This is because we need to make the copy stand out from the other products that are very similar in nature.

So in conclusion...no hard and fast rule. If I have to pass an opinion though, I'd say 65% Art, 35% Science.
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Copydog

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jbode

The basis of writing
copy is a science - 'follow a process that works'

Once you have that down, you can concentrate
on the art... and that will make you a great
copywriter

I agree to a point.

Like becoming a good artist -- first learn the
techniques, and then allow your creativity
(subconsciously) to seep through.

Without first knowing the correct techniques
(including the principles of color theory), the
painting's likely to be an unharmonious,
unpleasing mess.

I disagree, though, that we can "concentrate
on the art."

In my opinion, this is the part that *can't be
learned*. And perhaps this is what separates
good from great copywriters.

We can all probably become "good" copywriters
(by learning the rules).

But not all can be "great" copywriters, because
we aren't all born with that 10% (or whatever)
of the artist within us.

The 10% (or whatever) is the subconscious,
innate "artist" within.

What do you think?

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Stephen Bray

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

I agree to a point.

Like becoming a good artist -- first learn the
techniques, and then allow your creativity
(subconsciously) to seep through.

Without first knowing the correct techniques
(including the principles of color theory), the
painting's likely to be an unharmonious,
unpleasing mess.

I disagree, though, that we can "concentrate
on the art."

In my opinion, this is the part that *can't be
learned*. And perhaps this is what separates
good from great copywriters.

We can all probably become "good" copywriters
(by learning the rules).

But not all can be "great" copywriters, because
we aren't all born with that 10% (or whatever)
of the artist within us.

The 10% (or whatever) is the subconscious,
innate "artist" within.

What do you think?

I think the science relates to 'the colour wheel', or the structure of a sales letter.

Aristotle put it well:

Exordium: A shocking statement to get attention.

Narratio: Posing the problem the reader/listener is having.

Confirmato: Offering to solve the problem.

Peroratio: Stating the benefits of your solution.

Not all philosophers are as well known as Aristotle though.

Perhaps his magic came through walking with his students every day,
and whilst doing so practising his art and honing his skills?

Stephen

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Daniel Scott

16 years ago

I think there are a lot of brilliant ads that break "the rules"...

...and I think you have to be willing to be a little creative in this business to be great.

Paul Hancox posted something about that in another thread recently.

Sure... there's a lot of science behind what we do... to a point.

A lot of theory, at least... very little that's been proven beyond any doubt.

But get 10 great copywriters to write the same letter... and it'll end up very different.

Now... do I believe anyone can be "great"?

I think most people can... IF they're willing to make the sacrifices required to get there.

Most people just aren't willing to work hard enough... or they're too scared to take the chances that they need to take to produce something truly incredible.

But that's just my opinion based on my own experience.

Your mileage may vary.

-Dan

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MarkAndrews IMCopywriting 16 years ago

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- DaveHughes 16 years ago
  
  Copywriting is the art of applying a science originally and effectively.
  
  Without the science, you have creative writing with a product.
  Without the art, you have nothing but formula with no "punch".
  
  Take either one away, and the other is ineffective at selling.
  
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JasonParker

16 years ago

Answer: I don't know.

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abugge 16 years ago

it's the art of incorporating a scientific method without being detected
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- Copydog 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by abugge
  
  it's the art of incorporating a scientific method without being detected
  
  Great point.
  
  Eugene Schwartz said your writing should sell
  the PRODUCT, not the WRITING itself.
  
  In other words, your writing should not appear
  clever and creative, so it diverts the reader
  from the benefits of the product.
  
  But writing in such a way is tough -- your writing
  has to SELL the product, but at the same time
  ENGAGE your reader enough to keep reading.
  
  The latter, the ART that involves the 10% of the
  copywriter's craft, in my opinion, is what
  separates the GOOD from the GREAT copywriters.
  
  No matter how hard most of us try, we will never
  be a Eugene Schwartz or a Clayton Makepeace...
  
  What do you think?
  
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roadwarriorhawk

16 years ago

It's all learnable. That's the bottom line.

People don't burst out the placenta knowing how to write copy.

Sure, there can be a certain flare to it, but even that's learnable given time and the right environment.

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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by roadwarriorhawk

It's all learnable. That's the bottom line.

People don't burst out the placenta knowing how to write copy.

Sure, there can be a certain flare to it, but even that's learnable given time and the right environment.

Everything in life can be learned given the determination.

But it has to be learned and copywriting is no different.

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Jag82

16 years ago

I come from a scientific background
(studied Applied Chemistry in my
university days).

Copywriting is no doubt, both a science and an art.

There's a structural process to copy.

AIDA is a kind of formula isn't it?

The scientific part is important because that's where
a lot of testing comes in, isn't it?

We have to make data-driven decisions to improve
our copy. Not our opinions.

As to the proportion of art vs science in
copywriting...is this really critical at all?

Both aspects are important.

- Jag

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Copydog 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jag82

As to the proportion
of art vs science in
copywriting...is this really critical at all?

Both aspects are important.

Agreed.

Would be interesting to get some of the really
big hitters' opinions on this.

Gary? Clayton? Michel? Drayton?
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ewenmack

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Is copywriting 1/10th art and 9/10ths science?

If so, practically anyone could be a copywriter --
just learn the rules and follow them.

Or not...

What do you think?

If you are paid to write copy for others, a better question would be..."How can I make more money in less time for my clients?"

Now you become more valued when you keep your focus there.

All the best,

Ewen

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mrdomains

16 years ago

What about mindcontrol? We need more numbers...

Copywriting is 20% art, 20% science (as in methods, structure, etc) and 60% psychology.

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Copydog

16 years ago

What about mindcontrol?

Mind control?

Now we're getting into VERY oily waters...

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FreshPLR

16 years ago

A very interesting question and one which would no doubt have exercised someone like C P Snow, who in his 1956 essay "The Two Cultures" highlighted the cultural divide between science and the arts.

I would say it is more like 60% art and 40% science, because you can learn the framework and the technique if you follow the set formulae but that is only the beginning.

Let me give an analogy. There are many who can play let's say, Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto, but few who can play it in such a way as to really connect with the audience on that special empathic wavelength.

There is the 60% art in copywriting. Perhaps I am being too generous to the science component?

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Copydog

16 years ago

Originally Posted by FreshPLR

There are many
who can play let's say, Tchaikovsky's Piano
Concerto, but few who can play it in such a
way as to really connect with the audience
on that special empathic wavelength.

Excellent point.

Mechanical playing, like mechanical writing,
fails to touch the heart.

And the heart's the place we want to reach.

Thanks for your valuable input.

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Prouddad

16 years ago

I compare copywriters to musicians. Musicians are born with certain abilities and work to hone their skills. This involves art and science. Some musicians are born with more of an ear or music sense than others. Some copywriters have more sales ability than others.

A great example of a musician that made it big before he learned how to read a note is Paul McCartney. But nobody at the time questioned his musical ability. He had an appreciation of and an ear for music that few have ever had. Other musicians as copywriters had to work harder to develop their abilities.

Hell, there wasn't a lot of information like there is now for guys like Claude Hopkins or Robert Collier to learn from. But they developed their crafts.

My main message is that there's no hard rule on how much art and science there is in copywriting. We agree that both exists, but the rule of thumb for John Carlton for example, may not be the same as say, Clayton Makepeace. One of them may be more skilled at the science rather than the art of writing. But nobody would argue that they're both marvelous writers that have reached the top of their profession.

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ewenmack

16 years ago

Well Eldo, you got me thinking and darn it, I couldn't come up with an answer to your question, untill now that is.

So I poked around and saw if Gary Bencivenga had anything to say on the subject. Please stay with me if you know his track record as I briefly let others know who don't. I think it helps to put some relavancy to this answer.

For the biggest direct mailers in the world, he would be called in to beat the existing winning and profitable copy. At Rodale he beat it 7 out of 8 times. Others tried to beat his original work at Rodale, and not one could. No other A-list Copywriter could. For Rodale and these other top direct mailers, there maybe about 6 or so they and their peers which are called A-lister's. Overall in his career he held the record of consistantly beating more winners and creating more new winners for these big mailers.

Even Gary Halbert and John Carlton paid $5,00 to learn from him.

Anyway, instead of trying to remember what Gary said, I just copied it from his writings.

Over to you Gary,

I suddenly found myself in charge of an elite, fast-growing copy department and had to teach others the art and science of creating breakthrough direct marketing.

I quickly concluded that I couldn't teach an art—it's too subjective and intuitive.

I realized I had to turn the teaching of marketing and copywriting into a science, a repeatable set of principles that, if followed, can be counted on to yield the same predictable result of breakthrough response.

So I systematized the process and, most important, made everything about successful copywriting as easy as I could possibly make it ... so that even a wet-behind-the-ears kid just out of college could quickly learn the system and start creating breakthrough control packages virtually out of the gate.

------------------------------------
Key point Gary makes is "a repeatable set of principles". Principals can be likened to an open box where you can be as creative and artful as you want within the box, but going outside of it is at your peril.

There you have it from the man himself...no doubt their will be others who will still have a different opinion. Which is good because we get to see if we could of put our case forward more strongly.

All the best,

Ewen

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Copydog

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

I quickly concluded
that I couldn't teach an art--it's too subjective and
intuitive.

I realized I had to turn the teaching of marketing
and copywriting into a science, a repeatable set
of principles that, if followed, can be counted on
to yield the same predictable result of breakthrough
response.

So I systematized the process and, most important,
made everything about successful copywriting as
easy as I could possibly make it ... so that even a
wet-behind-the-ears kid just out of college could
quickly learn the system and start creating
breakthrough control packages virtually out
of the gate.

Ewen

*Many thanks* for your valuable contribution to this thread.

So I guess the the Maestro would agree that copywriting is 10% art and 90% science.

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ewenmack 16 years ago

Eldo,

I think it was to do with YOUR great question that needed and deserved the full attention it got.

Wasn't it somebody who said something like "the better the question the better the answer"?

All the best,
Ewen

Originally Posted by Copydog

Ewen

*Many thanks* for your valuable contribution to this thread.

So I guess the the Maestro would agree that copywriting is 10% art and 90% science.
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- Copydog 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ewenmack
  
  I think it was to do
  with YOUR great question that needed and deserved
  the full attention it got.
  
  Thanks for your kind remark, Ewen!
  
  But *you* did the hard work finding the quote for us
  by Gary Bencivenga.
  
  Am I right in thinking the quote came from his letter
  selling his $5,000 retirement-from-copywriting course?
  
  Read his letter a long time ago.
  
  Thanks
  
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  ewenmack 16 years ago
  
  Yes Eldo, extracted from said letter.
  
  All the best,
  Ewen
  
  Originally Posted by Copydog
  
  Am I right in thinking the quote came from his letter
  selling his $5,000 retirement-from-copywriting course?
  
  Thanks
  
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OLOORE

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

If you are paid to write copy for others, a better question would be...

"How can I make more money in less time for my clients?"

Now you become more valued when you keep your focus there.

All the best,

Ewen

Tnx Ewen,
I agree intoto. We have been very academic that we are missing the real issue like you said. I'm here to see what to learn, what to give out and how to make more money in less time. Without getting on anyone's wron*g side, I guess we might just be easing off some heat:p

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Rezbi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

If you are paid to write copy for others, a better question would be..."How can I make more money in less time for my clients?"

Now you become more valued when you keep your focus there.

All the best,

Ewen

You still have to learn how to write first. Just wanting to make more money for your clients isn't enough.

Just as, if you want to cure people you have to know what to do - usually that involves being a doctor of medicine.

Would you allow someone to cut you open if they weren't a trained surgeon.

It reminds me of a clip from Only fools and horses where Del boy said something like, "I'm a brain surgeon... part time".

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ewenmack

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Rezbi

You still have to learn how to write first. Just wanting to make more money for your clients isn't enough.

Just as, if you want to cure people you have to know what to do - usually that involves being a doctor of medicine.

Would you allow someone to cut you open if they weren't a trained surgeon.

It reminds me of a clip from Only fools and horses where Del boy said something like, "I'm a brain surgeon... part time".

Rezbi,

That is why I have posted a winning direct mail control, previously, here.

Some thought it was real funny, someone thought it wasn't serious enough for the intended market...but the copywriter who wrote it has so many controls for top American direct mailers that Clayton Makepeace tries to get her to write for him, she has direct mail companiy owners fawning over her to get her to write for them and she has written the promotions for Opray's book.

I used that as an example to study and why they should study control winning direct mail.

I mentioned that Carline Anglade Cole has had more controls, more often, since reading the headline "Read This Or Die" by Jim Rutz. She studied it since no other A-list writer could beat it.

I went on to make my case by saying that Clayton Makepece got so good by studying Gary Bencivenga's copy, since he had the highest ratio of winners in the industry. Then Gary Bencivenga said he was made to study the controls when he was a copy cub.

To bring home the point even more, I said once these controls are in place the companies will often bring in another A-lister to beat it. Brutal stuff for the uninitiated.

As the saying goes, success leaves clues.

Anyway, hope this helps all the readers.

All the best,

Ewen

P.S. There is a link to direct mail controls I left in a previous post.

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BobV

16 years ago

For me it's a mix of passion and talent...

You can't be the best you can at something unless you know exactly what you are doing and you love what you are doing...

Everything can be thought, everything can be learned but to have it stay in their thoughts and heart for the longest time cannot be predicted..

It's an art and science...Art because its a mix of somethings that are only the creator can decide on that makes it unique and science because there are mysteries behind it and reasons on how it was create and been put into life...

Best regards,
Bob

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thailanddave

16 years ago

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straygoat 16 years ago

I think the science works, but is actually killing copywriting - people are getting so familiar with 'proven techniques' that they are now dismissing lots of advertising as scams, without getting past the intro.

There needs to be a balance between the science, creative inspiration, and a feeling of genuine human communication (as oppose to corporate propaganda). If followed too strictly, the 'rules' will eliminate originality and innovation.
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kcorps

16 years ago

To my mind, both art and science involve equally in the copy writing process.

Copy writing is a craft where we want to assure people to take some action. To do so, we have to know the art to formulate words into such a alluring sentences. While science is used to help us out with the certain topic that we want to write.

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48dayscoach 16 years ago
No doubt... it's part art and part science.

Here's the thing aspiring copywriters need to know.

We're all hard-wired for certain things. Everyone is born with innate gifts and inclinations.

In order to master ANYTHING... we have to have a level of passion, or... bull-dog tenacity. Even for those with a great work ethic... if the drive is not driven by a heart-felt passion, they'll fizzle out before the passionate person will.

One of my favorite scriptures is, "Do you see any truly competent workers? They will serve kings rather than working for ordinary people". (Proverbs 22:29)

This level of competence comes about because of passion, and often a level of giftedness/natural ability that is perfected through hard work.

Here are the four indicators of success:
1. Passion, Values, & Dreams
2. Skill, Talent, and Ability
3. Personality Traits
4. A diligent work ethic
At the intersection of those four is where we find our potential for excellence. Everyone is a 10 in some area. Research says only 45% of (average) Americans is satisfied with their career. (I would put the link in that backs up the statistic... but I'm too new to post links. You can Google 'American Job Satisfaction'.)

Why?

Because there is often little to no passion for the job. It's just a paycheck. We're often taught to pursue money instead of passion. It's possible to have both. I'm not saying it's easy (or hard for that matter).

For some... it's just a different approach.

To be a great copywriter requires that a person see how their passion or values can be fulfilled in writing.

They need to understand... and be able to win at the game of selling. That dovetails with personality. There are multiple selling models. I've been a great writer, but I've worked with people who wanted to write copy, but wouldn't know how to sell an electric blanket to an Eskimo.

A person with the passion and personality for writing can learn the skill by applying themselves to a work ethic.

Carpe diem,
Ramon
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abugge

16 years ago

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this debate! I still think it's more of an art for the following reasons:

- without adding your own creative flair to your patterns of link building and/or your keyword repetition it is dull and mechanistic - and will probably look like spam! You need a natural backlink profile which can only be achieved with individuality. that sounds so cliche but I really think that people that work too much to method will end up getting cut out when Google cottons on to everything.

-without the art of rhetoric people will either skim over your copy without digesting any of it - or leave the website without anything at all.

- it's not true that text should focus on SEO alone - text should COMPLEMENT your other seo strategies. If you're using copy alone to boost your SEO then your site won't do well at all. copy is what humans read! humans value it more than spiders.

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Glovek77

16 years ago

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Daniel Scott

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Glovek77

Just do your homework. Nobody will sit there reading text for too long, the eyes will be focused on larger and highlighted text. So text for SEO, design for people is correct.

It saddens me when people can't even spam properly.

-Dan

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RickGueli

16 years ago

Copywriting is 90% RESEARCH into a product, gathering information, connecting the right dots in the right patterns, and then the remaining 10% accounts for enthusiastically communicating your "findings", which starts off as a SCIENCE and then, at the highest levels, becomes an ART-form.

Much like Martial Sciences/Arts. ('Cept you are communicating words, not jabs).

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Hank Rearden

16 years ago

It's 0% of both. It's salesmanship.

It's 100% hard work and experience.

Art and science are just labels we give ourselves to feel "less" like salesmen. Unlike what business school tells you...

... Selling stuff isn't a bad gig.

- HR

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harjos

16 years ago

I don't know about the percentage of art and science. But it is important to create a Great Headline, since it increase sales up to (200%). You must have an attention grabbing headline or your prospects will move on to a different website in a matter of seconds. And all the work you put into the rest of your sales page is wasted because people won't be reading it. So it is very important to spend a lot of time and effort into creating excellent headlines and sub-headlines. Study the pros, brush up on your copy writing skills, and invest in some e-books on writing headlines.

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LeeSteese

16 years ago

I think it depends a lot upon the niche your involved in, certain niches like make money online, forex, investing, real estate, weight loss (ie the high dollar ones) have a customer base that has been fed everything so they are more skeptical. That said, one only needs look at the top marketing CB products the last few weeks to see that people still buy the formula and it's as alive as ever - you just have to find a writer with enough talent to grease the slide for people to keep reading.

Originally Posted by harjos

I don't know about the percentage of art and science. But it is important to create a Great Headline, since it increase sales up to (200%). You must have an attention grabbing headline or your prospects will move on to a different website in a matter of seconds. And all the work you put into the rest of your sales page is wasted because people won't be reading it. So it is very important to spend a lot of time and effort into creating excellent headlines and sub-headlines. Study the pros, brush up on your copy writing skills, and invest in some e-books on writing headlines.

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TheSalesTechnician

16 years ago

True Copywriting is 100% Skill.

Do you have to be creative? I suppose it helps a little. Do you have to apply science...Yes absolutely...But combine the two and you dont have squat unless you have skill. And, this is something that only comes with a butt load of practice.

As Gary Harbert once said...you've got to put in your 10,000 hours!

PS I would compare a "writer" to a musician any day of the week but never a copywriter!

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Warren.Richards

16 years ago

For me it is 60% art and 40% science.
We need to experiment with new things and need to learn some rules to do copywriting if we want to be a Pro.
Everyone can't be a copywriter because writing the whole sales page in reader friendly manner is not a game for everyone.

If it was so, then everyone would have done it and no one would have hired us for doing it.

Warren.

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RyanAngel 16 years ago

Copywriting is more than just stringing a few words together; it's an art, the art of communication, understanding and persuasion.

its not science.... science does doesn't understand the customer..... a great copywriter does!
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LeeSteese

16 years ago

I have to agree with what Dan Scott said, most people are not willing to make the investment in success. If people were willing too, eventually they would get it. Mastery takes 10,000 hours. Most people buy into the BS that you can live on the beach and smoke pot all day and make a million dollars with autoblogging and no website or effort required. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. People who are willing to pay the price of success reap the $$$ of success. Simple as that.

Art, Science...I don't know. I'd go to the third alternative though which is work ethic.

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Byrt M

16 years ago

Copy writing is neither art nor science - don't let them fool you with that line. Copy writing is simply a disciplined way to say something using the least amount of words possible to achieve your objective. Nike did it with 3.
Byrt

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InternetMarketer711

16 years ago

I believe that its mainly science, and some part the art...

Science: As its like a formula, or recipe so to speak with things such as benefits, scarcity, bonus, social proof, risk reversal etc contributing to the total construction of the copy

Art: Subtle differences, layout of the page and also the placements, design and graphics are probably the arty element..

So I reckon its probably 70% science and 30% art

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RefundHost

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Copydog

Is copywriting 1/10th art and 9/10ths science?

If so, practically anyone could be a copywriter --
just learn the rules and follow them.

Wrong! Some people don't have the 10% artistic/creative aspect

...and those who don't are not really DRIVEN to find the scientific rules
because they don't care to make/create anything in the first place.

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Copywriting -- 10% Art and 90% Science?

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