"It's Like Selling Needles To Addicts"

That's cool and all, and I've heard it before, but I resent this last bit encouragement by comparison. I hate those things. I've had several friends whose lives were destroyed by that, and who lost their lives, and I'm sure I'm not the only one it's affected on some level. It destroys families and friendships. It's not something I would personally treat lightly in a public setting. You could always argue the point, sometimes what people want isn't necessarily what's best for them. Make what you will of it.

Anyway, no hard feelings. I get where you're coming from, it just sucks for me.

Yeah. Hate mail. Sorry for jumping the gun

I like "It's Like Selling Dollars At a Discount" by Dan Kennedy better.

I understand but like I said when Kennedy is saying that and has... he's talking about trading more in value than money received. Giving people more than they give you in return. "Selling value at a discount" like Bill Glazer and Dan kennedy have spoke about.

The warren buffet quote is about the "essential" of your product/service. There's a huge difference in that.

I got you, I know what you're saying. It's not horrible. If I didn't have a brother that just got out of rehab, I think it would resonate better with me. I understand it's purpose, what other ways do you think you can word it? If that is of any interest, I think the idea behind it is brilliant.

As we've seen from some of the replies in this thread, when using a metaphor (similes are a type of metaphor), the copywriter should consider carefully the sensibilities of his or her target group.

Alex

Agreed Alex. But again, Warren Buffet said it and as you can see from replies as well...

People did get it and took it the wrong way until they understood the concept and what it exactly meant. That's also our job as copywriters and marketers...

To take not only good things but also bad things and see how they can be transformed into the end goal.

For example, going back to Kennedy like Ross and I spoke about...

His book "Making Them Believe" about Dr. Brinkley who sold goat testicles as a solution for men who wanted improvement...most would see that and say

"What does goat testicles or a crooked doctor, or x have to do with my business?"

But the smart person would say "How can I take the example and or story and lessons learned and transform those into a positive way to benefit not only myself but also my clients."

I find "It's like selling needles to addicts" to be very powerful imagery. It speaks to me about the desperate, needful nature of the consumer...their almost animalistic hunger...and about the position of power and ease from which the seller is coming.

I find "It's like selling dollars at a discount" to be trite and empty. It's just rewording the same empty BS promise every financial services and investment vehicle for the last hundred years has spewed.

I get that they don't mean *exactly* the same thing. And I get that the "needles" one is going to rub some percentage of the crowd the wrong way.

But if I had to stake my future on a single piece of copy, based around one line or the other? Give me the needles, and I'll take my chances with rubbing that crowd wrong.

Hey Ross-

You can see the emotional pull (especially on some) that had versus if said the other way plus the "selling needles to addicts" puts it into a much stronger imagery perspective like stated above.

The addict who shoots up needs the needles. The needles are the "essential" to the addict who shoots up and if they shoot up, they can't get the high unless the needles involved. This is a killer positioning strategy if used correctly.

Crazy, I just typed in "selling dollars at a discount" into google, because I forget what book I read of his that this was in and our discussion is already on the first page of google. Talk about positioning, christ.

-Ross

One thing I learned from Carlton was to get visceral, especially with your headlines. If you offend a few people, so what. You've got to get emotional. I've got a page with a video right now that I'm sure is offensive to many people. So what, it works.

You can't please everyone and trying to do so is deadly in copy. I'm happy to please 5% and piss of 95%. That's a guaranteed path to millions if you have a decent sized market.

The physical act of selling? I'm no expert, but when I physically do something it registers as kinesthetic. I learned it while studying NLP, when you speak with someone you match their sensory, if they are a visual speaker or thinkiner you respond to them in the same sense.

For example, when someone says, I need to get my life back, you'd say, you can have your life back. That's a kinesthetic person.

Or I had a colorful past,....etc. You would respond with.. Well Imagine a brighter future.

This isn't a great example, but how I understand it.

Hope that helps,

Ross

That's exactly why I said above...The smart person would say "How can I take the example and or story and lessons learned and transform those into a positive way to benefit not only myself but also my clients or market?"

Some are looking at the needles to junkies in the wrong way. I would never say to sell garbage or something that harms someone. In the person who needs the fix example, the essential is the needles. It doesn't matter if the logic of the junkie is messed up or clear...they still know for a fact that the needles is their "essential" to the fix.

This is golden in positioning if used correctly and in a positive way.

For example, when you think of search engines on line...the big dog or the "needles" is google. You can go to other ones, however google has positioned themselves as the "needles" for traffic and online searches.


Another example, watching television...you go to cable or dish and those are the "needles" to the tv junkies.

You need to go through that to reach your fix of what you desire.

Sure you can go without cable or dish but then stuck with limited choices.

What the tv guide or "needles" was to tv before digital cable...If you wanted to know what was on tv without channel surfing...

You needed the tv guide. The tv guide positioned themselves as the "needles" to the "tv junkies"

Like I said...it's about finding the "essential" of your product.

In business you should always provide value and be ethical, however on the emotional side of copy or your messages...you can use negative emotions and positive emotions for a push-pull. Like the old problem-agitate-solutions formula.

You just need to know what emotions to trigger, when, and how to use correctly to be successful.

Besides, if I would of said in the thread title "essential of your product" how many do you think would be this involved and get the point as hard and as clearly.

It's all about knowing what to use, when, and how to not only benefit yourself but also your market or clients.

Plus, like I said...the emotional pull and imagery like spoke about brings home the point way better. Negative emotions can be successful if used correctly with the right positive emotional triggers also involved.

Hope that clears it up better for a few still not exactly clear of the whole concept.

The "needles" don't have to be negative like I stated in a few examples. The "needles" can be 100% positive, but you should find the "essential" of your product or service to be ahead of the game.

Thanks, Eric, for explaining your position. I'm glad to see you're on the good side of it all.

Peace

I was just going through some of my notes and found something wonderful to share. From TOP GUN copywriter John Carlton speaks on how: There is love and there is hate, the opposite of love is indifference; he then says that you never want people to feel indifferent to your ad. So that' leaves me with my next note, the 80/20 rule. which says, 80% of your business comes from 20% of your market, so this basically says one thing that's quite obvious, plan on pissing off a lot of people!

-Ross

It reminds me of "Bro, that is easier than selling crack to a ho." Similar concept and what a chilling powerful scary image.

Wait a minute everyone..I have to put a stop to all this hating. Can't we all just get along?

Now Collette, when I put this in the forum thread...it no where says throw this in your copy, although could work in some niches or fields whether you like it or not. But there would be a right way and a devastating way to use it and that would be a completely different topic.

Again...My original post....

I was reading an article on some products back in the day and came across this awesome quote...."It's Like Selling Needles To Addicts"

Fantastic quote from a person you wouldn't expect to say it...

Warren Buffet.

He was talking about products or services that have the "essential" aspect to it that 99% of products or services don't.

The funny thing is...it took a info-marketer/publisher by the name of Walter Anneberg to explain it to him. Warren grasped the concept but didn't get it completely.

Thought this would be great to throw in here since as copywriters we always need to have an angle "hook" to position our product/services above the rest and make the product/service the obvious, unique and essential choice.

Dig deep for the essential center of your customer’s buying decisions and emotions and suddenly the reasons behind your product's profits and losses become way more obvious.

This was said towards the end of the article...
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"So what is ESSENTIAL to the people in your market?


What is the fundamental portal they need to walk through in order to succeed in the context of your industry?


When you look at failed products in your market or your business look at how “close” to the essential center of your market the fundamental product was.


You’ll find the losers are almost invariably several steps removed from that essential center because the closer you get to it, the easier it is to sell."
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I Thought this would be great for the rookies and a fantastic refresher for the seasoned copywriters in the Warrior.

What did you think was going to happen with such an emotionally driven headline.. This proves that it works...because again, if at any point people feel indifferent to your headline, you're not stirring up emotions! and that's what you don't want to do.

Pat yourself on the back.

Best,

Ross

Sorry if this was asked already (quick quick rushing, moving) but what about the recovering addicts who may be interested in such a products but thinks the title is distasteful and wrong?

I have no problem saying I was one point in my life a heroin addict. Not proud obviously...sober for 3ish years. Honestly, it's kind of a trigger thinking about it but that is no one’s fault.

It was obviously my own choice to start and continue but only to a certain extent and since I have slowly have had to work up my way up the social ladder all over. I work an upwards of 50-60 hour weeks onto of learning copywriting and I can still barely afford my $635 rent (infact I cannot).

Back to the headline, I just feel you could limit your market to a point...because if I saw this ad I would choose to pass it by.
In my town there are over 2,000 people in recover out of a 105,000 (rounded) people. Suppose you could cut out some for not caring but would you choose to lose a demographic that fits a lot of the same habits than a normal person.

Gosh, I've been looking to sell DRUGS to junkies as a copywriting/marketing metaphor. You know, the people (as worldwide free needle programs could tell you) frequently share needles.

Because they don't care about anything BUT the HIGH the drug produces. Some don't even care about any particular variety of drug. Theoretically, just the high would be enough, provided an alternative to drugs comes along. ...Or endorphins (if it's the exercise category).

Nice to know I've been doing it all wrong. Me and my stupid customer research. Bah. I could just read gurus and get the answer from the back of the book.

Where's the swipe file for thinking about this stuff and coming to a different conclusion?

Just some impressions...

Upon first reading, my thought was "Needles? Addicts don't want needles, they want the drug."

Then I understood the context - to use the drug they need the 'essential' equipment, it the needles.

It still sucks though, as addicts will happily re-use or share their needles, because they don't or cannot buy them.

So a misguided turn of phrase in that sense. However as a means of selling, ie using that phrase in your copy, it looks like it works, judging by the reactions in this thread.

I'd only use if when aiming at a large and general demographic though...



AC

collette-i am not yelling just spreading value and you kept arguing with everyone else so that's when I reposted it to clear it up. There is so many lessons in there and know and heard them like we all did but...

You went on again yelling at others reposting comments and still not getting it because your too busy arguing instead of listening. So no you didn't get it and if you look at your comment after my original post...you didn't get it.

This and any Forum is all about sharing and helping not acting like you collette.

Using that Warren Buffet quote as emotional copy and how to use it properly if ever wanted to or any emotional copy would be a different thread and never said that use that in copy from the go like you took it as collette.

Plus like said if would of put "essentials of business", how many would actually think about it as deeply and even truly got it so obviously there's a reason I titled the thread like that.

You need to relax and spread the positivity not negativity like you are.

Do you realize all those negative comments and yelling you kept reposting collette meant you could of actually had your own thread or helping someone else out instead of wasting my time and everyone elses? If you still don't get it, then...

Good Luck collette and maybe one day you'll get it.