ClickBank: New Rules

14 years ago

Thanks for sharing Rick,

I like that they're discouraging "fake" scarcity - It's one thing if you truly intend to only release a certain number of copies of a product, it's another thing to flat out lie...

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sethczerepak

14 years ago

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RickDuris

14 years ago

For aggressive copywriters, I believe almost every one of those bullets is a bombshell when selling to the IM market. It will require a "re-thinking."

It will be interesting to see the resulting strength of the copy and the new marketing strategies that evolve from it.

I personally can not predict at this time what the impact will be, except to say it will be a transition. We shall see what we shall see.

- Rick Duris

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

My guess is that the major transition among the marketers using these techniques will be from Clickbank over to Plimus

Originally Posted by RickDuris

For aggressive copywriters, I believe almost every one of those bullets is a bombshell when selling to the IM market. It will require a "re-thinking."

It will be interesting to see the resulting strength of the copy and the new marketing strategies that evolve from it.

I personally can not predict at this time what the impact will be, except to say it will be a transition. We shall see what we shall see.

- Rick Duris

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Mark Pescetti 14 years ago

Scarcity marketing is sad. Too many people are pretending to be way more successful than they are...
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methomas

14 years ago

This is probably in response to new regulations coming down from Uncle Sam and the accusations of some underhanded transactions going on at Click Bank.

M E

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writeandreview

14 years ago

Clickbank wants to verify the "proof" of your Clickbank earnings. I mean, what ever happened to freedom of speech and junk? (and stuff.) It's like, you can't keep the man from breathing down your neck and junk. (and stuff.)

Clickbank knows what's coming. The writing's on the iPad. Their share of the digital marketplace is going to shrink. It's just a matter of how much. And how fast. (and stuff.)

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darrin_kuykendall

14 years ago

Originally Posted by writeandreview

Clickbank wants to verify the "proof" of your Clickbank earnings. I mean, what ever happened to freedom of speech and junk? (and stuff.) It's like, you can't keep the man from breathing down your neck and junk. (and stuff.)

Clickbank knows what's coming. The writing's on the iPad. Their share of the digital marketplace is going to shrink. It's just a matter of how much. And how fast. (and stuff.)

Clickbank is not verifying your earnings.

YOU essentially are verifying FACT from FICTION.
There's no FREE SPEECH when you are using the SERVICE of someone else.
If you do not like it, do not use Clickbank.

Also, Free Speech does not mean you can yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
Falsifying your revenue records (which is clearly provided by Clickbank), and using them to advertise to people is called False Advertising.

Everything you say in an ad copy should have the ability to be audited so as consumers have an informed buying decision.
If you have accurate and true "clickbank earnings" statements which correlate to the actual WORK you did vs. statements that only show revenues made from a different product -- then you're okay. On the latter part, you are doing the community a disservice.

Don't try & pull the "FREE SPEACH" card. That would be a bunch of B.S.

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writeandreview

14 years ago

I love Clickbank. Clickbank have (or has, depending on your style guide) been very good to me.

Clickbank will compete against Amazon, whatever Apple decides to throw in the mix and a host of digital publishers.

The number of authors will rise and they'll have more channels through which to distribute their books.

Same with affiliates.

It's not a slam against Clickbank's quality as much as a recognition of a changing marketplace.

There will be bigger players in this space than Clickbank. The execs at Clickbank realize this and I'm sure they're busy coming up with strategies.

Clickbank may may find their de facto niche is publisher for the lucrative get rich quick crowd.

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davemiz

14 years ago

wait a second...

you mean those $535,000 income claims from $39 bs products aren't real?

no f'n way!

Yeah rick, it means the writers (and product owners) have to do something crazy....

be honest and tell the truth.

crazy thought.

its sad how low people will go to make a dollar.... really sad. From the copywriters who know the products are dirt and the income claims are bogus... and the owners scamming and stealing from people.

karma baby...

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sparckyz

14 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

wait a second...

you mean those $535,000 income claims from $39 bs products aren't real?

no f'n way!

Yeah rick, it means the writers (and product owners) have to do something crazy....

be honest and tell the truth.

crazy thought.

its sad how low people will go to make a dollar.... really sad. From the copywriters who know the products are dirt and the income claims are bogus... and the owners scamming and stealing from people.

karma baby...

Awesome post

couldn't have said it better myself..

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

People who have a problem with this welcome development are not copywriters. They're people pretending to be copywriters. :p

It's also probably - sadly - true that Clickbank are doing this mostly to have something "on the record" in an attempt to cover their assets, and are not really that interested in enforcing it too systematically. I'm just saying ...

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genhorrall 14 years ago

I have to say that it is high time there was a change. It is sad that something as stupid as the government stepping in had to be the catylist. The need for honest marketing and honest products has been around since the beginning, but somewhere along the way we learned to hype things up so much that they could not possible perform the way the were being promoted.

I mean honestly some of these sales pages and letters now days sound like the bad infomercials of the 80's. It can slice, dice and chop your slice of the pie and make sure that it replicates the pie to for life. Come on. The customers are smarter than that. We are smarter than that. So why did it take so darn long to make a change, how come we did not start our own little revolution for truth.

Just a thought.
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- Daniel Scott 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by genhorrall
  
  The customers are smarter than that. We are smarter than that.
  
  So you say, but I notice crap like "The Secret" sold pretty damn well.
  
  I'm not endorsing unethical marketing. Just saying no one ever went broke underestimating the American public's intelligence.
  
  I forget who made that quote... PT Barnum?
  
  -Daniel
  
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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

People who have a problem with this welcome development are not copywriters. They're people pretending to be copywriters. :p

Absolutely! Top-notch copywriters use every ethical tool in their toolbox to sell their client's product.

It's also probably - sadly - true that Clickbank are doing this mostly to have something "on the record" in an attempt to cover their assets, and are not really that interested in enforcing it too systematically. I'm just saying ...

I'm viewing the new CB rules as a legal C.Y.A. too. Until they start enforcing it, it's not going to get respected by the collective bunch.

Personally, I'd rather have seen them address ultra-high refund rates. Some of the recent launches have had 70% or higher refund rates which points to customer issues with the quality of the product being sold.

When I owned a brick and mortar business, if we had a refund rate higher than 10% in a given month, it was grounds for having our business merchant account suspended or even cancelled.

The other area that I'd like to ClickBank address next is their refund policy for membership sites. Right now, someone could join your membership site... be a member of your membersite for almost two months... contact ClickBank for a refund and CB will refund 2 months of membership immediately.

Hardly seems fair to the merchant who held up their end and delivered two months worth of content in good faith.

That's the #1 reason why I won't use CB for any membership site I own and wouldn't recommend it to my own clients that want to launch a membership site.

My 3 cents,

Mike

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RickDuris

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

The other area that I'd like to ClickBank address next is their refund policy for membership sites. Right now, someone could join your membership site... be a member of your membersite for almost two months... contact ClickBank for a refund and CB will refund 2 months of membership immediately.

Hardly seems fair to the merchant who held up their end and delivered two months worth of content in good faith.

That's the #1 reason why I won't use CB for any membership site I own and wouldn't recommend it to my own clients.

My 3 cents,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Here's how you can handle that situation:

You set up a special valuable bonus that occurs in month #3 of their membership. You let members know on day #1 that it's coming.

The bonus augments/complements the membership's mission. It should not be some PLR BS, or if it is PLR, it should have huge value.

You can do that every three to six months to keep people in the program, with them knowing full well they are going to benefit greatly by being in the program.

- Rick Duris

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Hi Mike,

Here's how you can handle that situation:

You set up a special valuable bonus that occurs in month #3 of their membership. You let members know on day #1 that it's coming.

The bonus augments/complements the membership's mission. It should not be some PLR BS, or if it is PLR, it should have huge value.

You can do that every three to six months to keep people in the program, with them knowing full well they are going to benefit greatly by being in the program.

- Rick Duris

Rick,

That's a great stick strategy to use with any continuity program. But it doesn't address the core problem with CB refund vultures getting 2 months worth of content for free simply by asking ClickBank for a refund on day 58 or 59 of their membership and ClickBank refunding 2 months worth of payments in return.

It's a serious loophole that really needs to be addressed.

Mike

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Rezbi

14 years ago

Genuinely good copywriters will always be able to adapt.

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Bruce NewMedia

14 years ago

From CB's New rules: "....Any Pitch Page references to ClickBank sales stats need to be verifiable by ClickBank, and need to have been earned by the methods being promoted. For example, selling an affiliate training product using sales snapshots from a vendor-only account is not allowed...."

I think that's a very good idea. Should have insisted on that long ago.
_____
Bruce

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Stormheart 14 years ago

I agree with the posters that note that Clickbank is gearing up to compete with Amazon \ Kindle and similar products. eBooks are really coming of age, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was simply the beginning of Clickbank giving themselves a re-invention.
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SykkBoy

14 years ago

Good! I just hope they enforce the changes...
Copywriters will have to find other ways to be create beyond exaggerated numbers...

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jasondinner

14 years ago

What a crock of sh*t!

They are still permitting at least 20 or 30 (probably more) products that violate that entire new set of rules to sell in their marketplace.

They don't give a rat's ass so as long they get their cut.

This is just good public relations, if anything at all.

Nothing will really change until they get full-out raided by the FTC

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jasondinner

What a crock of sh*t!

They are still permitting at least 20 or 30 (probably more) products that violate that entire new set of rules to sell in their marketplace.

They don't give a rat's ass so as long they get their cut.

This is just good public relations, if anything at all.

Nothing will really change until they get full-out raided by the FTC

Yep...and meanwhile...back at the ranch...the copywriters are aiding and abetting this massive fraud. But who cares - right? We're all making money.

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BrianMcLeod 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Copywriters will have to find other ways to be create beyond exaggerated numbers...
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WAWarrior

14 years ago

This is good for the industry

We need more integrity on MMO products.

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buyqualityarticles

14 years ago

These were needed changes. I am not sure how effective they will be. I seems one problem is solved and people find ways around it.

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GAVROCHE

14 years ago

Thanks. Good news. Any idea when will be made public by CLICKBANK?

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davemiz

14 years ago

Rumor has it the FTC is already having a lookie....

What took them so long. But these idiots are gonna being heat to ALL of us

not good

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jtunkelo

14 years ago

I don't see very much in there that an ethical marketer wouldn't already be doing.

The video related stuff is new, but that's almost it. No biggie.

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Tony_Brayley 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jtunkelo

I don't see very much in there that an ethical marketer wouldn't already be doing.

The video related stuff is new, but that's almost it. No biggie.

It's true, no biggie. I've been down that road already. Been audited by the gov. and made it through fine. No b.s. and always kept it straight. It's the snake-oil salesman and those that hire witnesses that have to worry.

Good thought man.

Cheers,

Tony.
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premiumonlinewriting

14 years ago

I think it's great. It's about time Clickbank had an injection of ethics. This is good for online business in general.

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DC England

14 years ago

These rules will definitely keep the competition high. Now only the most genuine products can survive!

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talfighel

14 years ago

CB is taking these new FTC rules very seriously. I submitted a product to them and they disapproved it many times.

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

I knew it wouldn't take too long. I know a bunch of the Manchester Mob guys, and in the last few days 5 of them that I've talked to have said they are moving everything over to Plimus.

That will actually be a pretty big loss for CB in terms of revenue because each of these guys do multiple seven figure launches in a number of different niches.

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

Just a quick side point too, one that is important. I don't think it's going to be just the scam sellers leaving CB. In many ways CB went way too far. They have made it much harder to put your upsells in front of your buyers and a bunch of other things too that make doing business much easier for Clickbanks ultimate customer, the vendor.

I don't feel like I've ever scammed anyway, but under the new rules for upsales my income is down and I'm testing Plimus myself to see what kind of result it gets. I'm in niches that people don't know they are buying from CB, Plimus or anyone else, so I don't think it would make as much of a difference as it will in some niches like IM where you have people who know and trust the CB name and will buy because of it...but we will see.

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Matt James

14 years ago

I don't feel like I've ever scammed anyway, but under the new rules for upsales my income is down and I'm testing Plimus myself to see what kind of result it gets. I'm in niches that people don't know they are buying from CB, Plimus or anyone else, so I don't think it would make as much of a difference as it will in some niches like IM where you have people who know and trust the CB name and will buy because of it...but we will see.

Let us know how it goes on Plimus. I'm glad some of the more unethical folks are heading over there.

Sure, they were making a lot of money on CB, but they weren't necessarily keeping it.

I did see an email from a couple of these guys claiming conversion rates were higher on Plimus. How can that be? Smells like Plimus propaganda BS to me.

A client of mine just went through the approval process and spoke to the head honchos at CB yesterday. He's not worried. Seems like they're trying to keep a balance rather than clear out everybody in the IM niche.

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

Well I'd say that in niches where people know and trust Clickbank such as MMO and Forex that is not true at all. In fact I can remember a few years ago talking to three of the guys who do a lot of Forex launches, at the time they were playing around with Plimus because you can control refunds there a little more and whatnot. Anyway, they only stuck with it for two or three launches because basically people know and trust CB, and so even though refunds were in fact much lower, a launch that would have done say 150K after refunds over on CB would only do 100 to 120 on Plimus, so they all went back.

They are not leaving CB by choice. As far as "they are making a lot of money, but not keeping it", they certainly had high refunds, I've heard of a few products that had 70% + refunds...but they still kept a lot. I know of one launch that had over a 50% refund rate and the owner still made well into seven figures.

I will say there is a TON you can learn from those guys, not about how to treat your customers, and certainly not from the majority of the products they sell, but if you look at the sales process they have and how they run their businesss - they are very sharp.

Anyway back to the "conversions are higher on Plimus", I suppose since CB changed the way you can sell stuff, then yeah they probably are higher on Plimus now, but all things being equal - not so much.

I have only been trying Plimus for a few days in a health related niche and I will say that they have been great to work with so far in terms of the support they offer vendors etc. They are obviously experiencing a ton of growth at the moment and are doing whatever they can to keep up with it - and so far they are doing a good job - at least with me, and I'm not by any means doing a huge business with them right now, about $500/$600 a day.

Sorry this is kind of all over the place and not very well put together, I think I'm getting the flu - so I'm not batting even close to 1000 right now

Originally Posted by Matt James

Let us know how it goes on Plimus. I'm glad some of the more unethical folks are heading over there.

Sure, they were making a lot of money on CB, but they weren't necessarily keeping it.

I did see an email from a couple of these guys claiming conversion rates were higher on Plimus. How can that be? Smells like Plimus propaganda BS to me.

A client of mine just went through the approval process and spoke to the head honchos at CB yesterday. He's not worried. Seems like they're trying to keep a balance rather than clear out everybody in the IM niche.

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Matt James 14 years ago

Well I'd say that in niches where people know and trust Clickbank such as MMO and Forex that is not true at all.

What isn't true at all?
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- kellyburdes 14 years ago
  
  Sorry, like I said I'm kinda muddled in the brain getting the flu. I'm trying not to do too much writing at all today lol.
  
  I just mean that in niches where people have come to know and trust the Clickbank name, and buy many products from it - having it on Plimus is likely to lead to lower conversions, at least until people start to become familiar with it.
  
  In other niches, you know the kind where most of your refunds and chargebacks from people who bought your product and then see Clickbank on a CC statement and freak out because of it, those are not going to be effected. I've only been there a few days, but I've not seen my conversions go down.
  
  I'm not in niches like MMO and Forex myself -but know a lot of people who are - and what I reported above was what they told me about the experience they had at Plimus a few years ago.
  
  Originally Posted by Matt James
  
  What isn't true at all?
  
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davemiz

14 years ago

sorry dude... plimus SUCKS.

their affiliate system is one of the worst I've seen so far.... no tracking, stats are horrible.

some are moving over cuz the "rules" are a bit more lax... easy way for us to spot the scammers now.

as an affiliate, its like CB is a nice mercedes.... and plimus is a hyundai

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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by davemiz

sorry dude... plimus SUCKS.

their affiliate system is one of the worst I've seen so far.... no tracking, stats are horrible.

some are moving over cuz the "rules" are a bit more lax... easy way for us to spot the scammers now.

as an affiliate, its like CB is a nice mercedes.... and plimus is a hyundai

The only exposure I've had to Plimus was when someone was using them to fraudulently sell someone else's product they had no right to sell.

It's happened on several occasions.

"Rules" lol

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RickDuris 14 years ago

So how is ClickBank dealing with defecting top sellers and the corresponding loss of revenue?

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...s-finally.html

They open the floodgates and allow everyone to make one-time-offers. Previously, this was reserved for top sellers.

Now all CB sellers can benefit.

I appreciate some customer despise the one-time offer strategy, but as a vendor, the revenue implications are too hard to ignore.

(I also realize CB has a rule stating a way to opt-out of the one-time offer sequence should be included, but that can be overcome with a little marketing ingenuity.)

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kellyburdes

14 years ago

As an affiliate I have no opinion on them because affiliate sales are not a real part of my business.

As a vendor though they have been fine. Now, as a vendor who uses a lot of affiliates to generate sales what you say concerns me a bit though because obviously the affiliate experience is important to them staying with in a particular network.

Originally Posted by davemiz

sorry dude... plimus SUCKS.

their affiliate system is one of the worst I've seen so far.... no tracking, stats are horrible.

some are moving over cuz the "rules" are a bit more lax... easy way for us to spot the scammers now.

as an affiliate, its like CB is a nice mercedes.... and plimus is a hyundai

Thanks

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ClickBank: New Rules

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