30 replies
Hello

I wish to extend my writing skills beyond article writing into the much more lucrative art of writing sales copy.

I would welcome the advice of Warriors as to how best to learn copywriting skills.

There are the expensive courses offered by copywriting gurus such as John Carlton at $797. There are presumably cheaper courses.
I have also bought Maria Veloso's book 'Web Copy That Sells' as that came highly recommended.

If anyone has some specific ideas about the best way forward I would appreciate them.

Thanks

Philip
#copywriting #learning
  • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
    Hi,
    There are recommended books and resources in this subforum:

    The Copywriting Forum
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
    The best free copywriting information on the web...

    MakepeaceTotalPackage.com

    The archives are especially worthwhile.
    Regards,
    Jeremy
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesGw
    You also might want to take a few marketing and/or consumer psychology courses at your local college. As nice as some of the online courses might be, you're usually better off getting your education from a college / university.
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  • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
    Yeah the Halbert letters are great- I really like the Copywriter' Handbook by Robert Bly, and Cashvertising by Drew Whitman.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Hi Philip,
    I understand what you are trying to do.

    Years ago I started visiting web sites in various niches I was interested in. I would scour the sales pages looking for graphics I liked, as well as words and phrases that caught my attention.

    I would take screen shots of graphic elements I liked and then copy and paste the words and phrases into a text document. I would then go back and organize the materials I collected and put them into categories. Over time you can collect a powerful set of resources to draw ideas from.

    I'm not suggesting you copy and paste text into pages you write copy for, but still--it can become a valuable resource for generating ideas to get you started on projects. It's helped me a lot--you might want to give it a try. Best wishes with your projects! --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Hill
    In addition to reading the resources above I would get into the habit of reading one good ad per day. An ad that has been proven to convert.

    Better yet, handwrite out successful ads. This gives you a good idea of how a good copywriter uses their words, etc.

    Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author Onora Oz
    Hey Philip,
    If you dig deeper in War Room, you find gorgeous info. Timeless WSOs, swipe files, mini courses etc. I'm just done reading one of them, and dying to put it in use.
    Advanced search helped me much, can help you too
    Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author PhilipT
      Wow! What a lot of helpful responses - and so quickly too. Thank you Jeremy, James, Greg, Nate, Mike, Kevin and Onora.

      I like the idea of handwriting really good saleletters. That is likely to give you a feel for the flow of the piece. I shall certainly read Gary Halbert's archives.

      I will also certainly explore the treasures of the War Room, a resource I don't use enough.

      Thank you all

      Philip
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      • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
        I wrote a report that may help you. Check out the sig below.

        --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucas Adamski
    I like to study copy of latest product launches, sucessful clickbank products in various niches. You can create a very nice swipe file from it and discover some real gems. After time you will find out many patterns and things that are repeated in specific markets that you can model for your own copy. Also I'm subscribed to lists of many marketers and every day i read copy form different top marketers. It helps to learn copy naturally by just absorbing it this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mitt Ray
    Hi Philip

    I think the best thing to do is practice. It doesn't mean that if anybody takes a course it's going to make them better. You could learn from anywhere maybe a book, maybe some free content from guides and blogs, but what matters the most is practice.

    You need to use your new knowledge and newly learned skills and practice on a regular basis. Once you start practicing and getting someone to critique your writing you will get really good at writing great copy.

    Hope this helps.

    The White Paper Blog

    mitt@imittcopy.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Blake King
    Originally Posted by PhilipT View Post

    Hello

    I wish to extend my writing skills beyond article writing into the much more lucrative art of writing sales copy.

    I would welcome the advice of Warriors as to how best to learn copywriting skills.

    There are the expensive courses offered by copywriting gurus such as John Carlton at $797. There are presumably cheaper courses.
    I have also bought Maria Veloso's book 'Web Copy That Sells' as that came highly recommended.

    If anyone has some specific ideas about the best way forward I would appreciate them.

    Thanks

    Philip

    Jason Fladlien's Copy e-class is the BEST beginner course out there.
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    "Over 2 months ago Keith Baxter referred Blake King to me for some copywriting projects. Blake's copy skills are on another level. Our open rates and conversions have both doubled. I'll continue to use Blake on multiple projects in the near future." - Armando Alejandro
    blakeking.com

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  • Profile picture of the author wvcopywriter
    The AWAI's Accelerated Program for Six-Figure Copywriting course sets a great foundation for writing copy and teaches you everything you need to start your own copywriting buisness. They also have a great payment plan.
    Signature

    Don't have the time to write emails that will get opened, read and your reader to take action then leave me a message. I will get back to you within 48 hrs.

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  • Profile picture of the author jonymac001
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    • Profile picture of the author PhilipT
      Originally Posted by jonymac001 View Post

      How this program can change your life as a freelance copywriter...

      There are tens of thousands of excellent copywriters in the world who never get close to earning a hundred thousand dollars a year.

      They could do, and should do. Their copywriting skills are more than up to the task.

      But they don't have the skills to find the best clients or charge the fees they should.

      In short, they don't know how to sell themselves or how to market and run their copywriting businesses.

      The materials in this program address these issues head-on, giving you the skills to make a great deal more money than you do right now.
      I am not clear what program you are referring to.

      Thanks

      Philip
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  • Profile picture of the author johnymac
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    • Profile picture of the author PhilipT
      Originally Posted by johnymac View Post

      Copywriting that Sells!

      So the next few pages could hold the vital key to a very substantial increase in your sales. That's if you're prepared to keep an open mind and be completely honest with yourself. Honest enough to accept that perhaps the content and style of your advertising material isn't as good as it should be. Or even humble enough to admit that your Copywriting skills are totally ineffective! Rather blunt? Yep.
      What point are you trying to make?

      Philip
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    Originally Posted by PhilipT View Post

    Hello

    I wish to extend my writing skills beyond article writing into the much more lucrative art of writing sales copy.

    I would welcome the advice of Warriors as to how best to learn copywriting skills.

    Thanks

    Philip
    Philip,

    LOTS of advice here, pick out what suits your personality and goals. Now then...advice...

    Perhaps this true story may help you THINK about what you want to do.

    I was waking up when a "voice" inside my head (their name is legion)...said to me:

    NO ONE IS WAITING ON YOU TO BUY SOMETHING TODAY.

    As I was reaching full consciousness, I kept asking myself what that meant.

    What do you mean NO ONE is waiting to buy? NO ONE? Surely someone is out there that wants and needs what I'm selling. Right?

    Well, I knew people were going to buy from me this day...so I wrestled with this subconscious interjection into my morning routine.

    NO ONE IS WAITING TO BUY FROM YOU TODAY.

    I thought about all the people I knew. My mother wasn't waiting for me. Not my wife, not anyone I loved or cared about were ringing the phone off the hook ordering from me...

    Then, like a jolt of electricity coming from the bobby pinned outlet, it hit me.

    NO ONE WAS WAITING TO BUY FROM ME TODAY.

    And if this were true, then it must mean I had to SELL something to someone, somewhere.

    To WHOM would I be selling?

    WHAT would I be selling?

    Why? And Where do these people come from? HOW do they find me? OR how do I find them?

    What do I say to them? What are they looking for? What do they WANT and/or NEED?

    AS it applied to my copywriting.

    I always begin from this premise: NO ONE IS WAITING TO BUY FROM ME TODAY.

    So I either start with a PERSON (the market) and ask all the questions I can about this person...such as where to find them, etc.

    OR I begin with the PRODUCT I'm trying to SELL (and the sale begins when the prospect says NO)...

    So, as you begin a NEW career as a copywriter...ASK yourself what are you going to be selling? To Whom? And all the other questions.

    IF you have an idea for a product or type of product/service/business you will be SELLING to other people...then you do your market reseach to see how other similar types of products are already being sold...

    IN other words, can you find a parade (niche market, high passion index segment?) and how can you enter the parade and how would you work your way to the front to be the leader of the parade...

    OR, where are the people who WANT or NEED (although they are currently UNAWARE of this desire)...what you are selling?

    How do you get their attention?

    So, in summary...

    Knowing then,

    that NO STRANGER IS WAKING UP THIS MORNING THINKING OF BUYING ANYTHING FROM YOU...

    You ask if there are people who KNOW you (from a list) who might buy.

    If you don't have a list, does someone you know have a list?

    IF not, you have to find prospects...and these prospects must FIND you, then you have to SELL them on your product or service.

    Philip, the more you know about who the potential buyer is going to be...and where and how to reach them...the easier the sales job becomes...at least you can begin to construct a REMOTE presentation, or a promotion which is most likely to end up in a SALE...

    and the fastest and easiest way to make this sale, is to go down the well worn path of tested and proven salesmanship...making adjustments in your copy for your TARGET audience.

    I don't know if this will be of any value to you...but, if you start by writing a letter to a beloved Aunt...

    Dear Aunt Mary,

    Hi this is Philip. The reason I'm writing to you today is because.........

    Now, what if it were Aunt Mary's neighbor?

    Dear Mrs. Ilg,

    My Aunt Mary is your neighbor, perhaps you remember me playing in your back yard when I was a kid. The reason I am writing to you is.....

    What about a total stranger?

    Dear Strange Person,

    The reason I am writing to you is because of my beloved Aunt Mary. OH you don't know her but she is the reason why I'm writing. See, Aunt Mary had a secret.

    And her secret has to do with you. etc. etc.

    Philip, write.

    Write some more. Write with a purpose of SELLING. Write to get attention. Write to create interest, curiousity, WRITE to your aunt, uncle, cousins, total strangers, WRITE, WRITE AND WRITE some more...

    but,

    have a PURPOSE AND REASON FOR YOUR WRITING. Knowing why you are writing is often the very first yellow brick that can lead you to Oz.

    Good luck, hopefully, if nothing else, you have learned:

    NO ONE IS WAITING AROUND TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL THEM...so, go find em, grab em by the throat, and sell Baby SELL.

    gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author PhilipT
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Philip,

      LOTS of advice here, pick out what suits your personality and goals. Now then...advice...

      Perhaps this true story may help you THINK about what you want to do.

      I was waking up when a "voice" inside my head (their name is legion)...said to me:

      NO ONE IS WAITING ON YOU TO BUY SOMETHING TODAY.

      As I was reaching full consciousness, I kept asking myself what that meant.

      What do you mean NO ONE is waiting to buy? NO ONE? Surely someone is out there that wants and needs what I'm selling. Right?

      Well, I knew people were going to buy from me this day...so I wrestled with this subconscious interjection into my morning routine.

      NO ONE IS WAITING TO BUY FROM YOU TODAY.

      I thought about all the people I knew. My mother wasn't waiting for me. Not my wife, not anyone I loved or cared about were ringing the phone off the hook ordering from me...

      Then, like a jolt of electricity coming from the bobby pinned outlet, it hit me.

      NO ONE WAS WAITING TO BUY FROM ME TODAY.

      And if this were true, then it must mean I had to SELL something to someone, somewhere.

      To WHOM would I be selling?

      WHAT would I be selling?

      Why? And Where do these people come from? HOW do they find me? OR how do I find them?

      What do I say to them? What are they looking for? What do they WANT and/or NEED?

      AS it applied to my copywriting.

      I always begin from this premise: NO ONE IS WAITING TO BUY FROM ME TODAY.

      So I either start with a PERSON (the market) and ask all the questions I can about this person...such as where to find them, etc.

      OR I begin with the PRODUCT I'm trying to SELL (and the sale begins when the prospect says NO)...

      So, as you begin a NEW career as a copywriter...ASK yourself what are you going to be selling? To Whom? And all the other questions.

      IF you have an idea for a product or type of product/service/business you will be SELLING to other people...then you do your market reseach to see how other similar types of products are already being sold...

      IN other words, can you find a parade (niche market, high passion index segment?) and how can you enter the parade and how would you work your way to the front to be the leader of the parade...

      OR, where are the people who WANT or NEED (although they are currently UNAWARE of this desire)...what you are selling?

      How do you get their attention?

      So, in summary...

      Knowing then,

      that NO STRANGER IS WAKING UP THIS MORNING THINKING OF BUYING ANYTHING FROM YOU...

      You ask if there are people who KNOW you (from a list) who might buy.

      If you don't have a list, does someone you know have a list?

      IF not, you have to find prospects...and these prospects must FIND you, then you have to SELL them on your product or service.

      Philip, the more you know about who the potential buyer is going to be...and where and how to reach them...the easier the sales job becomes...at least you can begin to construct a REMOTE presentation, or a promotion which is most likely to end up in a SALE...

      and the fastest and easiest way to make this sale, is to go down the well worn path of tested and proven salesmanship...making adjustments in your copy for your TARGET audience.

      I don't know if this will be of any value to you...but, if you start by writing a letter to a beloved Aunt...

      Dear Aunt Mary,

      Hi this is Philip. The reason I'm writing to you today is because.........

      Now, what if it were Aunt Mary's neighbor?

      Dear Mrs. Ilg,

      My Aunt Mary is your neighbor, perhaps you remember me playing in your back yard when I was a kid. The reason I am writing to you is.....

      What about a total stranger?

      Dear Strange Person,

      The reason I am writing to you is because of my beloved Aunt Mary. OH you don't know her but she is the reason why I'm writing. See, Aunt Mary had a secret.

      And her secret has to do with you. etc. etc.

      Philip, write.

      Write some more. Write with a purpose of SELLING. Write to get attention. Write to create interest, curiousity, WRITE to your aunt, uncle, cousins, total strangers, WRITE, WRITE AND WRITE some more...

      but,

      have a PURPOSE AND REASON FOR YOUR WRITING. Knowing why you are writing is often the very first yellow brick that can lead you to Oz.

      Good luck, hopefully, if nothing else, you have learned:

      NO ONE IS WAITING AROUND TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL THEM...so, go find em, grab em by the throat, and sell Baby SELL.

      gjabiz
      Hello

      I am not going to respond in detail to your very thoughtful comments. What you said is worth pondering in greater depth by asking of myself some of the key questions you have posed. But I won't pause for too long because there is always a danger with me of paralysis by analysis.

      I will follow up your thoughts and then take action.

      Thanks very much indeed

      Philip
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Philip,

      LOTS of advice here, pick out what suits your personality and goals. Now then...advice...

      Perhaps this true story may help you THINK about what you want to do.
      THIS is an outstanding post, Mr. Alexander.

      Can I share it with full credit, pretty please?

      Best,

      Brian
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        THIS is an outstanding post, Mr. Alexander.

        Can I share it with full credit, pretty please?

        Best,

        Brian

        Brian,

        I don't teach copywriting or much of anything else these days...however, that doesn't stop me...

        see, I've got a copywriting CERTIFICATE suitable for framing (frame extra) for only 39.95

        And ANYONE can hang it on the wall in the background of their videos and I'll make sure it says something really snazzy...for an extra fiver, I'll put Summa Cum Laude in GOLD CAPS...


        Between giving a new career a little thought...without creating any paralysis...

        and just calling yourself a copywriter and building a web page and creating a sig link for the WF...

        there should be a "conversion bridge" ....

        so, my certificate is affordable...but, for many, well worth the investment...after all, it is instant credibility.

        gjabiz

        PS. Snarky sarcasm aside, feel free to use it however you want Brian.

        PPS. My ol pappy was the MR. in the family...gjabiz, Gordon or even hey you sh*tbird is preferred over Mr, ok?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitris Skiadas
    If you do a little research in the Warrior Forum,in the WSO's section, you will find some great copywriting products.I've bought 2 of them in a great price and i ve learned a lot.They ve got an awesome feedback.Totally worth it..

    Dimitris
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Sanchez
    Click on this link:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...al-newbie.html

    Great advice.

    As for actual courses:

    I'm not an AWAI fan - great products but their start up course is just a lead into the marketing sales funnel...so you have to buy more later on.

    I also found their information vague. It's only in the monthly copy critiques you start to discover solid advice.

    The best courses hands down to begin IMO are:

    - Jason Fladien's Stopwatch Copy
    - Dan Kennedy's latest edition of The Ultimate Sales Letter
    - Joe Sugarman's Advertising Secrets Of The Written Word

    When you're ready:
    - Clayton Makepeace's Quickstart Copy Course (you'll have to look on ebay since Makepeace dropped out of the info product business)
    - Ken MaCarthy Advanced Copywritng Course

    Now...here's what i discovered from personal experience:

    You'll discover more than any of these courses put together if you write sales letters by hand and study successful ads.

    Study people who've pulled real money in the real world of direct mail - Halbert, Bencivenga, Carlton, Schwartz, Dan Kennedy, etc

    If you're focus is online, study ads pulling in the dough.

    And then last but not least:

    Write...and write often. gjabiz (not Mr. gjabiz) is the money:

    You need to practice the art of casual, conversational, persuasive writing.

    How do you connect with someone just using your words?

    ...or inspire them
    ...or move them
    ...or get them to commit?

    I'm no master copywriter...yet....

    But I've met several great copywriters who've shared with me this one secret: Study the greats and practice, practice, practice.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    I've been studying copywriting for around a month so far... I've been writing out the Gary Halbert letters and reading a lot of books.

    The books I purchased so far are:

    Web Copy That Sells - Maria Veloso
    Cashvertising - Drew Eric Whitman
    Influence - Robert Cialdini
    The Ultimate Sales Letter - Dan Kennedy
    Secret Formulas of the Wizard of Ads - Roy Williams

    I loved every one of them... for each one I read it once straight through, read it a second time taking notes, and read certain chapters a third time.

    I feel like I've been gaining a great copywriting foundation, I've been writing sales letters for some clickbank products to practice writing the copy myself. Right now I'm looking for more learning materials.

    What are some other books you would recommend?

    Where can I find more sales letters to write out by hand? I find that this has been a great learning experience, but I have only been working with Halbert letters because they are so highly recommended.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jamesgregory
      Deciding to become interactive was a fantastic first step. Even tho I've marketed for a while, I'm new to this too and LOVE every second of it. So valuable.

      Anyway, I would recommend 3 simple things:

      1) reference the stickys in this section. Great information to get things moving. This section alone is also a great resource (obviously)

      2) if youre seeking a coaching program look for a WSO instead. Find one related to copywriting and sales letters- make sure it looks legit, has good reviews, etc but my experience with WSOs so far has been fantastic... It's a much much better route than the overhyped and overpriced courses on click bank... Plus I like how it supports our fellow warriors.

      3) Study successful sales copy. I do this a little every day by going to click bank and checking out the products with the highest gravity. Higher gravity equals more sales. I believe it refers to the amount of affiliates who have made at least one sale over the last week (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Gravity isn't everything, but if it's high then you know somehow that sales page is converting. read successful sales pages - but don't let them suck you in!!! Haha

      Hope this contributes to the wide array of already helpful responses from our community!

      -jg
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      • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
        Originally Posted by Jamesgregory View Post

        2) if youre seeking a coaching program look for a WSO instead. Find one related to copywriting and sales letters- make sure it looks legit, has good reviews, etc but my experience with WSOs so far has been fantastic... It's a much much better route than the overhyped and overpriced courses on click bank
        Sort of agree- BUT! I would personally only invest in copywriting instruction from a well-know name in the biz...John Carlton, Gary Halbert, Dan Kennedy, Bob Bly...there are certainly others too. If you are going to pay to learn, learn from the best.
        ________
        Jeremy
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      What are some other books you would recommend?

      Where can I find more sales letters to write out by hand? I find that this has been a great learning experience, but I have only been working with Halbert letters because they are so highly recommended.
      http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...ooks-ever.html

      http://www.HardtoFindAds.com

      Best,


      Pete Walker
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      • Profile picture of the author RefundHost
        If you REALLY want to LEARN copywriting,
        all the books really won't teach you much.

        Instead of reading ... build a website with
        the intention of getting people to go to
        the 2nd page. This will teach you:

        1 - How to pick TOPICS ( niches ) people are seeking info about

        2 - How to compel them to take action

        Seriously - you can spend 5 years spending and reading
        and still not get them to click "NEXT" or "For more info click here"
        and if you can't do THAT ... you can't get them to click "BUY NOW"
        or "ADD TO CART" or whatever.

        - Build a site about something that people are looking for.
        - Make an offer to give more free stuff

        - Then change it a week later and see how many hits on the main page
        and CLICKS to the 2nd page you get. THAT is you learning copywriting
        without spending $$$ on books and time reading them.

        You can of course ask members here which they like better
        and compare that to your own TRUE RESULTS and see who
        understands visitor behavior and who doesn't.
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