by max5ty
23 replies
I'm a big health nut...I run, workout, etc.

Been doing it since I was about 16...I'm 51 now.

Something I discovered early on...exercise is only a small part of being fit.

Something often overlooked -

nutrition -- about 90% of achieving success.

This post isn't about writing killer sales letters (most know how), it's about the overlooked part...the mental aspect.

Imagine this --

You're a millionaire

You've got a big house, luxury cars, a private jet...

Now what?

If you said you'd sit around and enjoy it all, then you're not the type of person that all the great copywriters of the past wrote books about to try and teach all their secrets...

...you're simply a "get rich quick, work at home" type of copywriter.

Real copywriters have bigger ambitions...to us it's all about the success of our latest work...

It's about the challenge of doing another successful campaign.

To us money is something that happens because we love to do what we do...

it's not our main ambition.

If you've ordered a course off the internet on ways to make some quick cash from copywriting...and all you care about is paying the rent or car payment...then you'll always be trying to understand how to write a "killer" sales letter.

This may come as a surprise to some...but to "real" copywriters, when we study the old time greats...we understand that it's not all about making a quick buck -- when we study their work...we don't think of how we can create cash...it's like learning an art to us...it's like creating a hit song, or a great painting...

it's not just another way to earn money...it's a chance to be creative...

If you've got an idea, whether it be an ebook or a tangible product...why wouldn't you look for someone who was more than a get rich quick copywriter?
#rant
  • Profile picture of the author thehorizon
    I'm starting to understand how you feel about it...

    I've been reading up on advertising, marketing, copywriting... and it just occurred to me that I might just be addicted. It's like a hobby... I delve more into the enjoyable aspects of it... It's like a passion you pursue everyday... The more accomplished you get in it, the more fun, the more the sense of accomplishment.

    I think about it all the time... whenever I pass an advertisement... my head fills up with all the "wow" factors and all the techniques keep pouring in... ideas just spring out of nowhere and I kinda love that.

    Seems to me that copywriting is both an art and a science.
    More of a hobby to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by thehorizon View Post

      I'm starting to understand how you feel about it...

      I've been reading up on advertising, marketing, copywriting... and it just occurred to me that I might just be addicted. It's like a hobby... I delve more into the enjoyable aspects of it... It's like a passion you pursue everyday... The more accomplished you get in it, the more fun, the more the sense of accomplishment.

      I think about it all the time... whenever I pass an advertisement... my head fills up with all the "wow" factors and all the techniques keep pouring in... ideas just spring out of nowhere and I kinda love that.

      Seems to me that copywriting is both an art and a science.
      More of a hobby to me.
      It definitely is a passion.

      P.S. for the email saying I was trying to drum up business...

      I don't take any new customers...haven't in over 3 years now.
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  • Profile picture of the author RadiniCopywriting
    I really agree with this. Too many people see copywriting as a means to an end.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Dennert
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    I'm a big health nut...I run, workout, etc.

    Been doing it since I was about 16...I'm 51 now.

    Something I discovered early on...exercise is only a small part of being fit.

    Something often overlooked -

    nutrition -- about 90% of achieving success.

    This post isn't about writing killer sales letters (most know how), it's about the overlooked part...the mental aspect.

    Imagine this --

    You're a millionaire

    You've got a big house, luxury cars, a private jet...

    Now what?

    If you said you'd sit around and enjoy it all, then you're not the type of person that all the great copywriters of the past wrote books about to try and teach all their secrets...

    ...you're simply a "get rich quick, work at home" type of copywriter.

    Real copywriters have bigger ambitions...to us it's all about the success of our latest work...

    It's about the challenge of doing another successful campaign.

    To us money is something that happens because we love to do what we do...

    it's not our main ambition.

    If you've ordered a course off the internet on ways to make some quick cash from copywriting...and all you care about is paying the rent or car payment...then you'll always be trying to understand how to write a "killer" sales letter.

    This may come as a surprise to some...but to "real" copywriters, when we study the old time greats...we understand that it's not all about making a quick buck -- when we study their work...we don't think of how we can create cash...it's like learning an art to us...it's like creating a hit song, or a great painting...

    it's not just another way to earn money...it's a chance to be creative...

    If you've got an idea, whether it be an ebook or a tangible product...why wouldn't you look for someone who was more than a get rich quick copywriter?
    WOW, couldn't agree with you more here Max.

    We're more alike than I thought.

    I set aside at least 1-2 hours a day for fitness, and I've done so since around age 14.

    Maybe the military background DOES have something to do with it... but honestly, it's more about how I feel when I'm done.

    To stick with anything long enough to see dramatic results (or get really good at it)... the motivation's gotta be deeper than what's "on the surface".

    Take exercise, like you mentioned above:

    Know how many people STILL think I exercise so much because I want to look good?

    TOO MANY.

    And they couldn't be more off-base.

    Looking good is a natural by-product of regular, focused exercise... just as completely mastering copywriting is a result of making it a huge part of your life--always in "learning mode"... and being motivated by more than money.

    It's funny, but if I DIDN'T exercise daily... copy wouldn't flow out of me as easy as it does.

    Something about pushing my body to the point of physical failure--complete exhaustion--clears my head so I can get more done.

    Awesome post Max... great to see another health nut in the copywriting forum.
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  • I agree with you here. I'm currently learning to copywrite, as I absolutely love writing, and the idea of writing persuasively is exciting to me. I've been content writing for quite some time now, and I reckon copywriting is the next step up for me.

    However, you should take some time to enjoy the fruits of your labour. There's more to life than a job/art. It's good that you enjoy your job, but don't allow it to consume your life, otherwise you'll begin to loathe it.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Dude...can't help myself...gotta paraphrase your post...and maybe someone will pick up the ball and finish it...

    "I'm a copy nut...

    I run myself ragged worrying about stupid stuff like where to put the ellipsis...

    then I get depressed...

    I get depressed that I'm depressed...


    I can spend days just getting the headline right...


    Been doing it since I was about 16...
    I'm 101 now


    And still a nut


    Something I discovered early on...being a nut is only a small part of being a copywriter


    Something often overlooked -


    "Making your own luck" -- is about 90% of achieving success


    This post isn't about writing killer sales letters...

    you already have that down

    it's about the overlooked part...

    the mental aspect


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    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
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        • Profile picture of the author Jake Dennert
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          By high return rate...I mean the copy you write is so bad...once someone buys it, they realize what a scam it is.

          Save your tired rants for a rookie.

          Most of us that's been around for a while aren't impressed with you.
          No offense Max, but a response like this is only going to make Copy Nazi heckle you even further.

          Thought this was supposed to be a learning environment... all I'm seeing is childish arguments.

          From what I've seen, you're not the one that starts it...

          ...but why not just let it slide?

          You're better than that -- or at least that's the impression I get from most of your posts.

          I don't know either of you on a personal level... so maybe it's not my place to intervene...

          ...oh well, I did anyway.

          Jake
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        • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
          Banned
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          By high return rate...I mean the copy you write is so bad...once someone buys it, they realize what a scam it is.

          Save your tired rants for a rookie.

          Most of us that's been around for a while aren't impressed with you.
          Huh? Boy have you got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you. Au contraire. It was just a bit of fun. No need for your personal sledging either. You know the rules. Delete it if you please.

          Thanks Mark.

          BTW I agree - Clickbank is a cesspit - but a cesspit that pays. I gotta put fuel in the jet somehow.
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          • Profile picture of the author max5ty
            Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

            Huh? Boy have you got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you. Au contraire. It was just a bit of fun. No need for your personal sledging either. You know the rules. Delete it if you please.

            Thanks Mark.

            BTW I agree - Clickbank is a cesspit - but a cesspit that pays. I gotta put fuel in the jet somehow.
            Jet fuel was $5.85 a gallon yesterday.

            Since it's easy to burn between 200 to 400 gallons an hour...it's not a cheap way to go...

            Then again -

            since we as copywriters make people millionaires, it's a luxury we can afford.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    You are so correct! Not just in copywriting but in everything. What you are talking about it real passion that exceeds just getting the material benefits of your work.

    Money motivation is the lowest forum of motivation.

    And I think the truly successful people in any field are motivated by something much higher than money, some other purpose and a real passion.

    You sound like you have that passion for copywriting. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author RHert
    All right. Back to the ACTUAL discussion.

    Copywriting for me is an art. I started as a writer. When I got into copywriting my first thought was it can't be that hard. I already love to write.
    I don't think I could have been more wrong.
    Completely different rules.
    Only one thing remained the same and it's actually the part I love most - You still have to tell a story. It wasn't until I realized this and applied it that my copy became anything beyond mediocre.
    If you're going to be in copywriting learn to love it, and that will keep you going even when you make nothing for a while.
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    • Profile picture of the author PolishedPerfect
      [QUOTE=If you're going to be in copywriting learn to love it, and that will keep you going even when you make nothing for a while.[/QUOTE]


      In the world today where it is either feast or famine, reminding yourself that you do still love it can be the real test.
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    I can't wait till I can quit my full-time job and write full time. Now it is THAT job that I am keeping because of the money. It's not awful. Just not what I want to do.

    Wrote a piece yesterday for a client and sent it and the whole way driving home I'm thinking oh boy I hope she liked it, yadayada, and I come home to a wonderful e-mail about how she loved it and it made my day. Didn't matter how much money I made. It was that I wrote it well and the client loved it. Still feels great. I love the high I get from writing something well AND making my clients happy!
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  • Profile picture of the author Russell Barnstein
    So if no one was paying you to write "killer" copy, you'd still do it after you were "rich"? I assume you'd then give the work away for free?

    And don't say you'd use it to promote your own products or services, because then you're still doing it for money. And don't say you'd give it away to charity, because they're doing it for the money and by proxy so are you.

    Being philosophical about this is great and is a very healthy attitude. Any type of writing may be considered art by some, but if we're digging down to brass tax and you're saying you'd do it for free, then I have several LSPs that need to be done and I'd love to take advantage of your great passion for sales writing.

    Don't get me wrong - I've been a professional writer for most of my adult life, and even if I get rich I'll never stop writing. But I certainly won't be helping people sell their wares or services. I'll be writing about what's important to me and giving the very best of what I have learned to the world.

    Maybe our definitions of copywriting differ (I find that's often the case with this job) but I have to call bul!@#$% on this one!

    I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just giving my opinion being that your post insinuates (more than insinuates, actually) that anyone who doesn't feel the same as you isn't a "real" copywriter.

    And on that note, you're right. I'm not a copywriter. I'm a writer and I'll put my pen to any medium.

    ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author PandaPoacher
    You have to be willing to do it and I totally agree. The people who get rich quick to stay rich and not do anything are fine and dandy, but i'd prefer to keep making more money by doing what I like best.
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    Russell - you talking to me? I didn't think I implied that I would be just as happy if I wasn't being paid. What makes me happy is that someone pays me to do something I love. No BS intended here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Russell Barnstein
      Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

      Russell - you talking to me? I didn't think I implied that I would be just as happy if I wasn't being paid. What makes me happy is that someone pays me to do something I love. No BS intended here.

      Sorry, I should have quoted. I was talking to the OP. ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    it's not just another way to earn money...it's a chance to be creative...
    Know what Halbert said about that?

    "Being on target is much more important than being facile with words"

    and
    "People don't have time for your pathetic subtleties"

    "Chance to be creative" - thats what starry-eyed tyros think advertising copywriting is all about. It's not. It's about selling. With words.
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    • Profile picture of the author Russell Barnstein
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Know what Halbert said about that?

      "Being on target is much more important than being facile with words"

      and
      "People don't have time for your pathetic subtleties"

      "Chance to be creative" - thats what starry-eyed tyros think advertising copywriting is all about. It's not. It's about selling. With words.
      Damn it sir, that is one of the finest posts I have ever seen in this forum!

      Well done, and thanks for the brutal honesty. We see that far too little here.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    If you've ordered a course off the internet on ways to make some quick cash from copywriting...and all you care about is paying the rent or car payment...then you'll always be trying to understand how to write a "killer" sales letter.

    This may come as a surprise to some...but to "real" copywriters, when we study the old time greats...we understand that it's not all about making a quick buck -- when we study their work...we don't think of how we can create cash...it's like learning an art to us...it's like creating a hit song, or a great painting...
    It's a difference in the level of commitment. The top people in any industry are constantly working at improving their game and getting even better. They're pretty much workaholics at their job/career/craft.

    Let me use another occupation to demonstrate my point.

    In the NFL, there's 32 teams each with a starting quarterbacks. Every year, there's at least 10 teams who have a lousy QB. Maybe it's because of injuries. Maybe it's because the team did a bad job scouting players and decided to draft or sign a sub-par quarterback.

    Every year, there's also pretty much the same 4-5 guys who are considered the best at the QB position. Every single of them is constantly working on their skills... studying film on the next opponent... hitting the weight room... putting in extra reps with team mates after practice, etc, etc.

    Great example... he's currently injured but Peyton Manning has been one of the best (if not the very best) QBs in the NFL for more than 10 years. Up until neck surgery this year, Manning had never missed a game in his 14 year career.

    In practice... prior to his neck surgery... Manning took every single offensive snap in practice. Every single one of them.

    When he's on the field, he's been known to call every offensive play, every audible, every hurry-up or 2 minute offense... the only active QB who regularly does that. He knows the team's playbook as good or better than the coaching staff.

    Even being injured hasn't stopped him from helping his team. During the Colts-Steelers game (I'm a long-time Steelers fan), Manning was in the press boxes with the coaches, calling offensive plays and giving the Colts QB feedback on how to beat the Steelers defense.

    In short, he was the best at what he does because he constantly works at it. Assuming he's able to make a full recovery health-wise from his neck surgery, then I'm confident he'll still be one of the best QBs in the NFL.

    If you've got an idea, whether it be an ebook or a tangible product...why wouldn't you look for someone who was more than a get rich quick copywriter?
    IMHO, it's a question of positioning.

    Some clients shop for a copywriter based on price. Some clients shop based on reputation or who recently wrote a big hit. And some clients look for a copywriter to establish a long-term relationship with... the copywriter becomes their secret weapon for all of their marketing needs.

    All of them need copywriting help. It's up to each and every copywriter to decide what types of client they really want to work with and then do it.

    My 3 cents,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Top Dog Marketer
    Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

    when we study their work...we don't think of how we can create cash...it's like learning an art to us...it's like creating a hit song, or a great painting...
    Awesome rant man! I couldn't agree with the above more!

    I truly LOVE the art of writing effective sales copy and I love reading about it and studying it as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author abugah
    David Ogilvy used to work from dawn to midnight. Claude Hopkins would often leave the office at 2:00 am and show up at 6:00 am.



    For these copywriters, it wasn’t about money. No wonder their celebrated work is recommended reading to this day.
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