CW Forum regulars who've gone AWOL...

I noticed a somewhat cryptic message on a recent post about it being Alex's last in the CW section.

I guess he wasn't kidding. Bummer.

Alex (and Joe Ditzel) helped me out big time when I was in a jam a few months back and needed help converting a GoToWebinar recording.

Brian

It's David Lee Roth...

New studio album on the way and a tour this year.

They've been rehearsing for the tour in the Roxy in LA.

Wolfgang Van Halen on bass again (forevermore?)

B <- Completely derailing his own thread, yet again...

Brian. All I can say is thank-you for bringing this up.


Take care,


Bill


PS I still have that Van Halen 2007 reunion "Toronto" Tour t shirt for ya.



.

Brian,

Awesome!

This is OUR hang. This is where the SMART PEOPLE are supposed to live.

If you listen close, you can still hear echoes of Vin yelling:

"How 'bout we talk less about what we THINK and more about what we KNOW?"

Even the dumb-asses were smart enough then to see the wisdom in that...

And this isn't about egos, either.

Show me a copywriter without an ego and I'll show you a starving copywriter.

We all LOVE TO WIN. It's what we do.

So - if we'd like to wrench sanity back out of the gaping maw of STOOPID...

******** TOTALLY AGREE*********

Let's see what we can do to create some NEW and Informative Theads!
One that create live and active discussions so we ALL learn a thing or to!

The stakes are higher here Di, because offline experts are selling $27.00 wso's, and have other business interests outside of WSO's....but CW's are selling $1600.00 services, and most of them depend entirely on the forum, while the rest of the advertising world outside of WF doesnt even know who the hell they are.

They are more territorial.


Some forget that bashing isnt good business.

If I were to judge some by their posts here... I wouldnt hire hire them for ten cents. Its all negative and doesnt sell me on anything except that they are aholes who are only here to prospect for "suckers".

The truth is that the world is a big place... and having some successful wso's doesnt make you an advertising expert, it just means you know the WF market ... Edit: but not necessarily even that- WSO's can be hit and miss even for the "WF CW EXPERTS" No one hits 100% or can guarantee a conversion percentage. When they can "call their shots", then I will call them an expert.

For instance, I can call my shots on cold calling within a few percentage points, and I can project my results based on a given repeated action.... That makes me an expert, its not a "grab bag" result.

All the heavy criticism is why this area sucks and nobody wants to hang out here....

Lastly, why would I buy copy writing services from people who have forgotten how to sell "themselves".

Its about uplifting energy... these crummy "everyone else is an idiot" posts, even in the wso copy around here would not fly very far past this forum...

Benefits are the key, and there is no benefit in dealing with people who dont know how to uplift your spirit.

I would not buy from a person who thinks everyone else is an idiot... You want true copy writing knowledge, go to Doctor Mani.... He actually makes visitors and newbies feel cared for, and they buy that like hot cakes, and I buy "him" because of it. He teaches, uplifts, and encourages instead of criticizing.

To quote Paul Myers "There is one tone that NOBODY likes to hear, and thats the tone of being talked down to...".

Maybe when they experts remember that then this area will be worthwhile, but no one wants to come get abused.

Their loss. I personally wont buy their services because they dont even know how to sell ME on Them, how are they going to sell my customers?

I want to feel good when I come to a wso page, not like everyone but the copy writer is a moron.

Thanks but no thanks.

Ps. Good copy is important, and I know that for a fact because sometimes mine is better than at other times, and the difference is clear.... however "pre-selling" and what you do before you send a person to your page is TEN TIMES more important.

Pay attention to that and you can hardly go wrong.

Ps. If this post is critical I apologize... This is one time I dont mind anyone saying the pot is calling the kettle black.

You sell more copy writing services when your prospects feel good. Im not selling them so I hope this hits some experts in the heart and makes them quit driving their market away.

I do understand ego, and I sometimes have to be reminded to keep mine in check....so knowing how that helps me, this is my reminder to others.

Diana,

Wow! You gave me my smile for the day! Now I know why I have not bothered to even read this forum for over a year! But I got a friend request from this Forum today and figured, "What the heck... see if anything has changed..." Guess it really hasn't not much! I totally agree with you!

Now if I can complain I should make an effort to change things -- right? Otherwise dont complain... OK, so I made a new resolution. I will make a new thread each week (no matter my copywriting load...) to give back.

REASON why is after all this time, I do feel I can contribute. This last year I learned an incredible amount about all the ins and outs of copy that converts well, that I really should share. I make my living writing copy like so many here. Let's see if we can give some CPR to this forum.

Again, Diana I sure loved the way you hit the nail on the head with this post.

Diana,

It's the nature of being a professional copywriter.

Every project we do, we're judged by the results we deliver. Deliver hits and you're in demand. Deliver too many duds and you're sitting in the dark with no clients and even less money in your pocket.

The advice we give clients has to be dead-on right because many times, they're banking a lot of money on the advice being right.

So copywriting is not a "fake until you make it" profession. There's too much riding on the copywriter's skills and expertise.

Knowing it's not a "fake until you make it", experienced copywriters can spot someone pretending to be an expert a mile away... and they don't want to be associated with it in anyway. So they're quick to call someone's bluff when they see it.

The other thing is, most of the successful copywriters I've ever met honed their skills early on through trial by fire. Either they had a mentor holding their feet to the fire or they were a small business owner doing "Gun To The Head" marketing (Gary Halbert's term, not mine) every week.

I was one of the latter and had plenty of times where I sat down to write an ad that HAD to convert well or else I might have trouble covering all of the bills that month.

In either case, it's a pressure cooker situation which makes you tough-skinned, calm under fire, and highly resistant to dealing with marketing half-truths or outright lies. Because marketing half-truths or outright lies could cause a business using that info to lose a ton of money... perhaps hurt the business badly enough that it never recovers.

As far as newer copywriters go... they haven't proven themselves to the established copywriters that they have legit chops. Once they do, then they're welcomed with open arms to the profession. Sorry to say it but it's true. And it's true in any other industry too... that's why NFL rookies get hazed by the veteran players every year in mini-camp.

As far as copywriters egos... that's partly copywriters fault... and partly clients. You see, clients don't want to hire a copywriter who "thinks, well gosh... maybe just maybe... I can write something for you that will make you some money."

No way.

They want a confident (yes, even cocky sometimes) copywriter who KNOWS there's a real good chance they can write something that converts. And if it doesn't convert, then the same confident copywriter has to be prepared to explain what went wrong and come up with a plan on how to fix it FAST.

So if clients want copywriters who can deliver as close to a sure winner as possible, then the trade-off can be dealing with that copywriter's ego.

Hope that helps,

Mike

This is self-indulgent, but stick with me...

Four years ago I was watching the results of the Iowa caucuses in a "family room" in the biggest children's hospital in Philadelphia. Parents who hadn't slept in days we're curled up on recliners beside me. At any moment, any blip of downtime away from the bedside could be rattled by an ear-piercing alarm. This meant either a heart had stopped beating, or a breathing apparatus wasn't working. Every time it went off your heart dropped. Could it be your baby? And could you live with the consequences?

This was going down about 6 months after I’d just discovered direct-response copywriting and Michel Fortin’s discussion board. I was doing the right things… reading all the books and then applying it in writing. I was dissecting letters from the greats and writing them out longhand. I figured small incremental improvements would add up to a career and I was right.

Copywriting became my mental sanctuary. A place to go when I couldn’t fester anymore on unanswered questions.

It’s why, for twenty-eight long days… and then another two surgical stays after that… if you’d rode the elevator to the sixth floor, then taken a quick left then a right… for roughly one hour of each 16-hour day, you’d have found me sat at a public computer, on a copywriting forum, lurking and learning.

A forum like this can mean the world to someone.

One of the reasons I work with Vin Montello is because the interaction between us makes the finished product that much better. Iron sharpening iron. This forum can be iron for everyone. I need to do my part and find time to walk the walk. Skipping my sentence-long posts for more substance. Call it my New Year’s resolution and this the first effort.

Thanks for indulging me… and you should know that a couple nights ago, I got to watch the Iowa caucuses as a live-wire four-year old, who loves princesses and talking dogs and ballet and iCarly and her even littler brother, curled up sleeping in the bedroom down the hall.

--- Ross

Ross ...

Simply stunning writing. And most assuredly because you cared deeply about the subject.

Glad your little princess is here with you four years later. And healthy.

The reflection, sir, was priceless.

Doc

Takes a big man (or woman) to retract a strong statement upon reflection.

You are to be commended, John.

To make this forum rock again, people, this is the direction we head.

Doc