Does 100% honest copy work?

14 years ago

Yes, honestly and SINCERITY do sell!

I've been plowed on here before for making that statement... as you know.

Of course, what you're selling does have to legitimately solve a problem that appeals to your intended audience.

Sometimes the path of least resistance is the most effective way to go.

In other words,

You don't need to contrive emotion to sell something.

You just need to become aware of what the genuine emotions your product or service appeals to and HONESTLY communicate them.

Mark Pescetti

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angiecolee 14 years ago

I'm not at all surprised. Not every product is going to be right for everyone, so honesty is a must in my opinion.
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- Formal Shorts 14 years ago
  
  It absolutely does.
  
  People don't expect things to be perfect, because they so rarely are. You can acknowledge shortcomings while still selling to your target audience....and if you do it correctly, your sales pitch becomes more rather than less convincing.
  
  Unless you're selling a bag of warm crap. Lie through your teeth
  
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Robert Michael 14 years ago

Of course honesty sells.. and quite well.

If you're transparent about things, people know 100% what they are getting and what they can expect. Meaning less potential problems in the long run.

Plus, people will respect the fact that you were up front with them about everything, instead of just trying to make a sale. Making them more likely to be a return customer.
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Steve Hill

14 years ago

As long as you have what somebody wants, it'll sell. I've seen the most god-awful ads, classifieds, and websites work, simply because they were selling something that somebody actively wanted.

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jgrink

14 years ago

Honesty is the best policy. I made that up--really!

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Steve The Copywriter 14 years ago

I've never understood any need for hype.

When the truth will always set you free.

And it sells much more stuff.

Steve
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Ricochet

14 years ago

hahahaha... go figure... may incorporate that into my marketing plan

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Raydal

14 years ago

I think that technique is what is called "damaging admission".

Your credibility shoots to the sky when you use that technique.

In this way you have nothing to defend but place the prospect
on the defense instead.

Thanks for sharing.

-Ray Edwards

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The Marketeer

14 years ago

That's an amazing result!

Drayton Bird did something similar recently.

He was looking for a new PA so instead of using an agency or expensive tabloid ad, he wrote a very informal ad and posted it on gumtree.com which cost around $25.

He got 72 replies within a short space of time. Check it out here.

His own words were:

What was the secret weapon? I told the truth.

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Steve Hill

14 years ago

I'm a little surprised at the hubbub over this. Direct honest copy like Rick wrote, along with a little humor like what Drayton wrote, has always worked like gangbusters in places like CraigsList or eBay.

I can't even count the number of times I could have sold a lot more of the same single item (if I had them) this way. It works for selling practically anything from bookcases to big ticket items like RVs, boats, and tractors.

It works great for signs at swap meets, yard sales, and practically anywhere else. The approach seems to remove any feelings of being "sold to" and forges an immediate common bond of goodwill that makes people trust, buy, and conclude they are getting a honest deal (and usually a good deal).

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Bruce Wedding

14 years ago

We shall see. I recently wrote some pretty honest copy and took a big risk making some damaging admissions. I figured what the hell, I need an order of magnitude change and something different than the other guys. I should know in a few weeks.

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Steve The Copywriter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

We shall see. I recently wrote some pretty honest copy and took a big risk making some damaging admissions. I figured what the hell, I need an order of magnitude change and something different than the other guys. I should know in a few weeks.

Bruce,

Just to clarify in case I read it wrong. Or it was a typo.

Did you say you made "some damaging admissions?"

Bet that won't happen again in a hurry (lol)

Steve

P.S. You do realize how bitter sweet it'll be if you win?

Or should I say when you win - because it's just what that particular piece of copy needed.

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Bruce Wedding

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve The Copywriter

Bruce,

Just to clarify in case I read it wrong. Or it was a typo.

Did you say you made "some damaging admissions?"

Bet that won't happen again in a hurry (lol)

P.S. You do realize how bitter sweet it'll be if you win?

Or should I say when you win - because it's just what that particular piece of copy needed.

Yes, I made some damaging admissions. I guess I'm not getting the pun or the mistake?

In any event, I do think the copy needed something different but you never know how a market will react. I guessed, and hope, they're beyond the hype and are ready for some straight talk. My thoughts though were, swing for the fences. So I'll either knock it into the upper deck or go down swinging.

I'm a Bencivenga disciple and followed his advice to the letter. There's only 1 piece missing, though I won't say what it is publicly. I left it out because it wasn't in the original, but that is stupid thinking. In fact, I may email Dan and see why it wasn't in the original and add it, if it's not too late.

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videolover7

14 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Does 100% honest copy work? Warts and all?

As a lark, yesterday I wrote a piece on eBay to sell a $400 medical device I wasn't using anymore.

The headline?

The XXXXXXXX WORKS--it
just doesn't work for me

The Honest-to-God Truth

The product sold in under an hour. Who knew?

- Rick Duris

"100% honest" - what does that mean?

As an example, let's say your medical device was an older model and lacked one feature the newer model has. Or let's say Consumer Reports rated your medical device 2nd in its category.

Did you mention those two facts?

If not, you weren't "100% honest".

VL

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jimbo13

14 years ago

Originally Posted by videolover7

"100% honest" - what does that mean?

As an example, let's say your medical device was an older model and lacked one feature the newer model has. Or let's say Consumer Reports rated your medical device 2nd in its category.

Did you mention those two facts?

If not, you weren't "100% honest".

VL

I'm being thick here, but I don't get what you have written.

If you have an Audi A4 from 2009 it is an older model than one from 2012 so won't have the same features.

No need to mention it. It is obvious that it wouldn't to any buyer. You say what it has, not what it hasn't.

And for the second point; and why I chose Audi, is that since 1983 nobody has knocked BMW 3 Series off its perch as best compact executive.

So an Audi A4 from 2009 is neither number one in class nor packed with features an Audi from 2012 will have.

Doesn't mean you are lying when you put it in Auto Trader describing exactly what it is.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

Dan

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videolover7

14 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

I'm being thick here, but I don't get what you have written.

If you have an Audi A4 from 2009 it is an older model than one from 2012 so won't have the same features.

No need to mention it. It is obvious that it wouldn't to any buyer. You say what it has, not what it hasn't.

And for the second point; and why I chose Audi, is that since 1983 nobody has knocked BMW 3 Series off its perch as best compact executive.

So an Audi A4 from 2009 is neither number one in class nor packed with features an Audi from 2012 will have.

Doesn't mean you are lying when you put it in Auto Trader describing exactly what it is.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

Dan

Well, people have different views of being "100% honest".

By saying what a product has without saying what it doesn't have, is that being 100% honest? Some say yes, some say no.

Let's face it. Not much would get sold if copywriters included a long list of what a product doesn't have.

(Yes, there is the "damaging admission" persuasion technique mentioned above. But it's usually just one thing... not everything that's negative about a product.)

VL

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KimboJim

14 years ago

There are a few reasons why honest copy works.

1) by now, everyone has been exposed to the hype. Remember years ago when first heard the movie announcer say, "In a world..." God, it made goose-bumps crawl up your skin. You knew when you saw that movie that you were going to immersed in a world unlike our own, a world you hoped would never be ours.

Now, it's a punch line. We've been exposed to much to it. Hyped up copy is the same way. Everyone has seen the, "MAKE A BAJILLION IN 15 SECONDS, JUST SIT THERE AND WATCH THE DOLLAR SIGNS!" The hype has lost its hype, and it's all so normal. But honest copy has the ability to really cut through that barrier that people have put up, because they want to see real copy.

2) Honest copy actually addresses issues. The overhyped BS that everyone loves pushing out only addresses one impulse: "BUY NOW!" THERE ARE ONLY 15 SECONDS AND THEN THIS PRODUCT WILL BE GONE AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT IS TO BE RICH!!! YOU WON'T SIT THERE COLLECTING DOLLAR SIGNS! YOU WILL ONLY SIT THERE AND LOSE OUT ON LIFE, ON BOATS AND PRETTY WOMEN!

Honest copy really tells us about the product and what we actually care about. Honest copy gives readers something to think about. If you can make them think, then you can make them buy. However, you are making money in an ethical way.

I mean, to be honest, who likes lying through their teeth just to sell products? I don't know about you, but it would just make me feel dirty.

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Steve Hill

14 years ago

A house falling off a seaside cliff could be marketed as (while being 100% honest):

View Property - Unobstructed Views!
2 BR, 2 BA, Lovely Kitchen
Scenic Coastal Region
Upscale Neighborhood of Expensive Homes

but the key missing element is: disclosure of material defects.

Not mentioning every missing feature is fine, but not disclosing problems or defects that adversely affect the item being sold is misleading.

A material defect can be used as a selling point, though. In this case, there might be five acres of buildable land away from the cliffside. It could be marketed like "Buy this condemned house - and get five acres of prime oceanfront land!"

Or a similar example - "Give this car a $1500 valve job, and double your investment!"

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ChloeCKimberley

14 years ago

Yup, I was selling old jewellery over eBay for a friend and I used a similar take on this... "This jewellery shines - but it doesn't anymore for me" (something similar) - and the short copy was just pure honest thoughts. Sold out like hot cakes for close to store price!

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macker2298

14 years ago

nice strategy..honesty lol

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SoftWarp

14 years ago

"Honesty" in itself is a very relative affair and therefore does not allow much of judgement. What surely sells is the "impression" of honesty.
Obviously we all would prefer to buy from an "honest person" as opposed to a crook.
So the question is: how do I present myself as "honest" WITHIN a certain niche?

A doctor obviously would use other criteria for passing as "honest" as lets say a lawyer, right?
So tell me in which niche you are working, and I might tell you how to present yourself as "honest" in that very niche

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Micah Medina

14 years ago

There's a very crucial difference between being "honest" and "forthcoming". No one can be totally forthcoming in sales, but a lack of it can really hurt your credibility. You should give enoough information for every buyer to qualify themselves though.

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williamslicer

Banned 14 years ago

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Andrew Gould 14 years ago

Originally Posted by williamslicer

Artificial emotions and words are caught by the readers at once

Nonsense.

Con men operate successfully precisely because people can't tell the difference between an honest man with an honest deal and a crook with a pig in a poke.
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Big Squid

14 years ago

Great headline! I think honesty is important, and can really bring people closer and involved in the letter.

I suppose, however, dishonesty could do the same...

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kencalhn

14 years ago

I completely believe that honesty in copy is essential, especially for longterm success. In my niche,trading, most of the industry is hype and bsers, which customers can smell a mile away. By making copy accurate and honest, including about how hard it is to be successful, that helps position against all the industry bs that others use in their copy.

My business is built on the 5th/6th sale to satisfied customers, type of approach -- so being the most honest/highest integrity person in the niche is important for business success. Re 'damaging admissions', I have found that simply explaining the truth, that what they're trying to do is very difficult and most won't make it, is what I like to say, because it's the truth. Talking about what I've learned personally, to make the journey a bit easier, has been helpful. All business must be built on honest, helpful copy.

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RickDuris

14 years ago

Did another eBay auction with a similar strategy:

----

A $58,500 Rolex Diamond Presidential ONLY $6500?

Yeah, it's "a steal," but there's a reason

----

I would like to make a distinction. I hope it's not taken as "just semantics."

I did not embrace the damaging admissions strategy, even though that's what it seems.

I told my own human interest story and I gave a genuine confession, along with offering an irresistible price. I thought the piece was more believable than using a "damaging admission" to differentiate and add credibility.

To me, a "damaging admission" would imply something's wrong with the product. Some slight (overcomable) imperfection.

That's not how I chose to play these ads.

- Rick Duris

PS: The Rolex sold in two hours, even though there was no proof of authenticity and my eBay reputation was only one star (because the Rolex was only the third thing I've ever sold on eBay.).

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Daniel Sanchez

14 years ago

Yeah, I wouldn't call Rick's ad as a"Damaging admission" (although I can see how others see it this way)

I prefer to call it "Self Disclosure"

I've noticed when someone discloses deeper thoughts or emotions beyond the "acquaintance zone", words are seen as truthful.

Sort of a "you get what you give" principle at play.

Give a little trust by opening up and voila - people give trust back.

@Rick - great insight on human psychology. Love your posts and threads. I secretly stalk your posts and threads. Some of the best copy tips I've seen in a long time.

PS - You still offering mentoring? I'd like to see how far the rabbit hole goes...

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RickDuris

14 years ago

[QUOTE=Daniel Sanchez;6005579]Yeah, I wouldn't call Rick's ad as a"Damaging admission" (although I can see how others see it this way)

I prefer to call it "Self Disclosure."

That's exactly what it was, Full Self Disclosure.

I've noticed when someone discloses deeper thoughts or emotions beyond the "acquaintance zone", words are seen as truthful.

Sort of a "you get what you give" principle at play.

Give a little trust by opening up and voila - people give trust back.

@Rick - great insight on human psychology. Love your posts and threads. I secretly stalk your posts and threads. Some of the best copy tips I've seen in a long time.

Thanks, Daniel. Glad to know I'm helping you.

PS - You still offering mentoring? I'd like to see how far the rabbit hole goes...

Mentoring? I've sort of taken a break from it for a while. I've got some big projects lined up over the next few months.

You have a couple of options:

There are a number of quality copywriters on this forum who mentor others, including in no particular order Ray Edwards, Malcolm Lambe, Mike Humphreys, Vin Montello, Marcia Yudkin, Paul Hancox and Mark Andrews. You might consider approaching them.

2) David Garfinkel & Brian Mcleod are conducting a pretty intimate copywriting training event May 5th & 6th in San Francisco.

High-Speed Copywriting Live Workshop - May 5-6, 2012 - San Francisco | Fast Effective Copy

- Rick Duris

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JakeDaly 14 years ago

Great thread, Rick. Keep up the good work!
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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by RickDuris

2) David Garfinkel & Brian Mcleod are conducting a pretty intimate copywriting training event May 5th & 6th in San Francisco.

High-Speed Copywriting Live Workshop - May 5-6, 2012 - San Francisco | Fast Effective Copy

- Rick Duris
[/B]

According to your sig file, you'll be there too.

Seeing that you make seminar appearances about as often as there's lunar eclipses... will it be you emerging from the Duris War Room or will it be a body double appearing in San Fran that weekend?

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Paul Hancox

14 years ago

Now try that on a dating website...

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MikeHumphreys 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Hancox

Now try that on a dating website...

Funny story about a dating websites... Prior to meeting my future wife 10 years ago, I tried one of the most popular dating websites. One of the women had an ad up with the headline "Pretty As A Princess".

Headline would be fine on its own but... in reading the ad, it turns out she owned a dog named Princess.

Okay, here's a fictional headline example that would do the trick. I'm writing this off the top of my head so grammar police can just ignore this post.

"Single, Slightly Overweight Billionaire With Old School Values Is Looking For His Soulmate." :p

It's been my experience that women are less critical of a guy's body. And if he's truly a billionaire... well, the future Mrs. can recruit a good personal trainer to whip hubby into shape.
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RedShifted

14 years ago

I remember specifically learning in all my psych classes that increased self disclosure leads to increased intimacy.

However, one must be cautious to disclose too much too fast as this can lead to a completely opposite effect. Most conversations start heavy in "breadth" (think shallow/wide/superficial talk) then as more is disclosed, it will become heavier in depth (narrow/intimate/focused).

So one aspect of me says honesty can absolutely help build that intimacy and trust with people, but you really need to be sure that you don't overdo it. Too much self disclosure can quickly become awkard or a bad thing (obviously).

I do not know crap about copywriting, but will say this thread definitely lit a fire under my rear when it comes to new approaches. In fact, I like this approach so much I'm going to start relisting sample packs I tried to sell years ago on ebay that never sold. Back then I had tons of music experience, but no marketing experience. So I'd hype the hell out of every listing. Did not sell 1 sampe pack at the time and these were INCREDIBLE soundfounts I made myself and put a lot of time into.

Now, I'm going to relist those same samples, but I'm going to be honest, and if I sell a pack, talk about a paradigm shift. "No these sounds will not make you the next deadmau5... but they're sonically orgasmic in nature so keep a wrag nearby".

(see even when I try I can't control the hype factor, will definitely take some work to develop this new skill)

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Alan Petersen

14 years ago

Does this mean most copy isn't 100% honest?

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

Does this mean most copy isn't 100% honest?

The short answer is it depends.

It depends on who wrote it.

Not all sales copy is written by copywriters. There's tons of offline and online marketing written by business owners and marketing people.

If it was written by a professional copywriter then there's a very good chance it's 100% honest. That's because the majority of copywriters understand that in the eyes of government agencies like the FTC and SEC, the person who wrote the marketing piece that hurts or defrauds consumers is also criminally negligent. IMHO, there aren't too many copywriters willing to go to jail on behalf adding to their client's bank account.

If it's sales copy put out by a mail mailer like Agora, Boardroom, or Rodale then it will have gone through their legal complianance department to make sure it's 100% complaint and has the proper legal disclaimers on it.

It depends on how literal you want to be.

Case in point...

Your signature file says "New WSO: Cash In With Amazon's Forgotten Business!"

Now honestly... did Amazon forget about part of its business?

Does every single person who reads your sig file forget about any part of Amazon's wide-ranging business?

Probably not.

But enough people have forgotten about Amazon (or one of their services) to make it a valid claim.

What about the word "New" you used in the same tagline?

Does your definition of "New" match every person who reads it?

Not necessarily.

They might think the word "New" means the product debuted today. Your definition probably will have a longer time frame than one day.

Are you being honest with using the word "New"? I'd argue yes... "New" is a very subjective word. It could be considered marketing puffery. But some people would say if the product didn't launch today, then it's not "New" like you claim. Because their definition and yours don't match, they might even claim you're not being 100% honest... even if the majority of people feel your use of the word "New" is perfectly fine.

It depends on what hype or puffery is being used.

Some hype or puffery examples...

Does Geico REALLY have a talking gecco as a spokesperson?

Does Chicken of the Sea tuna REALLY have a talking fish as a spokesperson?

Probably not.

It depends on what marketing puffery is being said.

It might not have any effect on consumer buying decisions.

Straight from Wikipedia (bolding is mine):

In 1997, Pizza Hut filed suit against Papa John's based on a series of advertisements that compared the ingredients of Papa John's and its competitors. At trial, the court agreed with Pizza Hut's argument that Papa John's slogan did not constitute statements of literal fact – that "fresher ingredients" do not necessarily account for a "better" pizza; this ruling was overturned in 2000 when Papa John's appealed the decision. Although the jury's decision on the misleading advertising was upheld, the appeals court determined that Pizza Hut failed to prove, under the requirements of the Lanham Act, that the misleading advertising and puffery had a material effect on consumers' purchasing decisions

It depends on who uses the product.

If you're selling a weight loss ebook, then does everyone who buys it lose weight?

No.

Not everyone will read the book. Not everyone will follow the directions given in the book. Not everyone will want to do the "work" detailed in the book.

It doesn't mean the sales copy you use isn't 100% honest. It means consumer results will vary from person to person instead.

Hope that helps,

Mike

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Mark Pescetti

14 years ago

If you're selling a weight loss ebook, then does everyone who buys it lose weight?

No.

Not everyone will read the book. Not everyone will follow the directions given in the book. Not everyone will want to do the "work" detailed in the book.

It doesn't mean the sales copy you use isn't 100% honest. It means consumer results will vary from person to person instead.

Hope that helps,

Mike

And just one comment to build on what Mike said...

...the broader your marketing, the less people your copy is truly resonating with.

...the less people your marketing resonates with, the more it FEELS like a lie or pie-in-the-sky.

The more of a lie it feels, the less money you'll make...

...and the less money you're making, the fewer people you're actually helping with your product or service.

The message?

Dilligently refine and redefine WHO your target audience is...

...and your copy will FEEL honest.

Mark Pescetti

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magneticweb

14 years ago

It comes down to

1) Focus, and
2) Giving value.

Focus on precisely the market who needs and wants what you're selling, address their concerns and desires, and share in their hopes and aspirations.

Give value by informing them about your product, and you can only do that properly by being honest about it. It means telling them about any relevant drawbacks with the product, but also whether and if so to what extent they need to concern themselves with those drawbacks.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell.

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RickDuris

14 years ago

Alright, cat's outta the bag. Might as well post this and make it official:

Men's $58,500.00 ROLEX 18K Gold Diamond Presidential Watch--MUST SELL | eBay

- Rick Duris

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boostmg

14 years ago

i'd also like to know this. i think the answer is it does work, but you still have to throw in marketing copy in there

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sundown16

14 years ago

I think humility works in copy.. builds a "we have the same problem" kind of
mentality with the prospect, which leads to trust
but make sure.. you also convey that you HAVE the right answer to their
problem

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debml

14 years ago

Rick, can I be the first to buy you a drink at the High Speed Copywriting Seminar?

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RickDuris

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

According to your sig file, you'll be there too.

Seeing that you make seminar appearances about as often as there's lunar eclipses... will it be you emerging from the Duris War Room or will it be a body double appearing in San Fran that weekend?

Yeah, I'm personally coming. How can anyone talk about high-speed copywriting without me in the room?

From what I've heard, the way they're structuring this event I think is pretty cool.

To be blunt, you'd have to be an idiot to pass this up.

Look at it this way: I was also invited to the Gary's Bencivenga 100 Retirement Seminar Event. All expenses paid. My seat was locked in.

But I was an idiot. I couldn't go that weekend. Too busy with a big project about to launch.

I was kicking myself for a year while Gary was futzing with the videos.

Can you believe it? 100 other copywriters got the jump on me for a full year! If you don't think that pissed me off, you don't me very well.

In other words, you CAN'T treat this as any old seminar. This is an event. A true opportunity.

There's gonna be world-class copywriters on stage AND in the audience at David & Brian's event. And I personally don't want to miss a moment of it.

- Rick Duris

PS: And if anyone thinks I'm being compensated to say this, I'M NOT. Without sounding all hypey dypey, I just think this is going be a darn cool event.

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Grain

14 years ago

My, I'd love to go! (If only... *grumbles*)

Will there be a recording of some sort?

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DanMurray

14 years ago

Great + Ethical way to write a salesletter

1. Have a great product people want
2. tell the truth (your copy)

Thats it!

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Azarna

14 years ago

A few weeks ago I saw a lady selling a doll on eBay. She said she had bought the doll because it's previous owner thought it was ugly, and she (the current owner) felt sorry for it.

But she couldn't take to it either. The doll was just too ugly. And yes, it really was, it was a large, resin ball-jointed-doll, which are usually very beautiful indeed. This one had a wonky face, odd eyes and was skinny and ill looking. It was not a pretty doll.

And people were bidding like mad on it. Heck, I felt sorry for the poor dolly too! She was hideous, but poor thing! She was unwanted, unloved! She NEEDED me

Perhaps it is just that we British always go for the underdog, but this ugly doll sold for far more than a perfectly lovely example would have done.

That's honesty for you, hehe

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Quattro

14 years ago

I think there needs to be some "hype" in every sales letter to make it effective.
Yes the truth sells... but to have something high converting, you need a way to get to the emotions of the buyer.. and the "hype" can help.

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Will Edwards

14 years ago

It has always worked for me Rick. And I like your ad. It makes me want to find out more about the XXXXXXXX thing.

Will

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kayfrank

14 years ago

Hype puts me off. I want to hear it the way it is.

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JonMills

14 years ago

I've used it a lot in sales pages. ranting and raving about "X" but then telling them it does work otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell people on it. Then going into product and comparisons. Transparency works like magic!

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Ken Hoffman

14 years ago

I think some honesty is good. That's why disclosing a believable reason why the product is less than positive builds credibility for everything else you say. But, if you are 100% truthlful and honest about most products, they won't sell well.

I remember reading something from Dan Kennedy recently stating that ALL advertising contains lies. Sometimes just from selectively leaving something out. What we do as copywriters is ultimately manipulation of the facts to change people's perception. Blatant dishonesty in copy however, guarantees lots of unhappy customers.

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gordonlds

14 years ago

Does Honesty always pay? Depends on what your priorities are.

Undoubtedly there are lots of dishonest sales pitches out there. You may get sales but you will definitely get refunds and an unsavory reputation. If you are trying to build a relationship with a list honesty and authenticity is a must.

Hype doesn't need to be dishonest though, just enthusiastic :-)

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apim

14 years ago

in a market dominated with lies and false truths the real truth sells well

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Does 100% honest copy work?

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