Examples of loops in copy

by fbyrne
31 replies
Hi

I read somewhere (I think in this forum) but using loops in stories and letters to keep the readers attention. OPening lots of new loops before closing them. Something NLP/Zeigarnik effecty (a bit technical!). But I was wondering if anyone had a couple of examples-maybe analysed?

Many thanks

Fergal
#copy #examples #loops
  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    I am an experienced writer and I do not know what you are referring to. Do you have an example?
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by TDogger View Post

      I am an experienced writer and I do not know what you are referring to. Do you have an example?
      I'll show you an example of opening up a loop in just a second...

      First, let's talk about what loops are and what they mean in copy.

      Loops are pretty easy to conceive/write. You open up a "loop" in the copy that you don't close until after they've read the parts you want them to.

      Sometimes, you don't close the loop at all. Vin Montello and I have had some fun conversations about that in the past.

      So, about that example of opening a loop I mentioned at the top?

      You just read it.

      Brian
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Nice example Brian. If I remember correctly Gary Halbert (TheGaryHalbertLetter.com) was good at using "loops."
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        • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
          Nice one Brian.

          Make sure you close any loops you open, or it'll frustrate your reader.

          Billy Connolly is very good at open loops. Saw him live once and he kept going off on different tangents, but towards the end he closed each and every story until every loop he opened was closed.

          Amazing stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author JamesCx
            Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

            Billy Connolly is very good at open loops. Saw him live once and he kept going off on different tangents, but towards the end he closed each and every story until every loop he opened was closed.

            Amazing stuff.
            This is the first thing I thought about when the loop concept was mentioned! It's as though he can't stay on a single topic; but then resolves everything that has been opened one by one... Absolutely brilliant.
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          • Profile picture of the author videolover7
            Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

            Nice one Brian.

            Make sure you close any loops you open, or it'll frustrate your reader.

            Billy Connolly is very good at open loops. Saw him live once and he kept going off on different tangents, but towards the end he closed each and every story until every loop he opened was closed.

            Amazing stuff.
            This copywriter has an open loop in his sales letter which he DOESN'T close...

            Expert Copywriter | Marketing Consultant | Top Copywriter | Marketing Strategist | Direct Response Ad | Top Gun Copywriter | Top Gun Copy | High Response Ads

            Obviously it's done on purpose. Any ideas why?

            VL
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      • Profile picture of the author ejunkie
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        I'll show you an example of opening up a loop in just a second...

        First, let's talk about what loops are and what they mean in copy.

        Loops are pretty easy to conceive/write. You open up a "loop" in the copy that you don't close until after they've read the parts you want them to.

        Sometimes, you don't close the loop at all. Vin Montello and I have had some fun conversations about that in the past.

        So, about that example of opening a loop I mentioned at the top?

        You just read it.

        Brian

        Nicely put. And beautifully written.

        Made my day
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I have to smile to myself when copywriters talk on these
    subjects that are as old as time--literally.

    The BIBLE is one large loop. It starts with creation in
    Genesis and end with re-creation in Revelation.

    "Loops" although they are given different names in
    Hebrew literature is VERY COMMON in the Bible.

    Copywriters often discuss these subjects as though
    they are "deeper level" stuff. They are not. Well,
    they are since they all originate from the all time
    Best Seller.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Interesting perspective Ray. : )

      Have you found being religious (besides the open loop example) has helped you in your Copywriting career?
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      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Interesting perspective Ray. : )

        Have you found being religious (besides the open loop example) has helped you in your Copywriting career?
        Not being religious but being a student of the Bible. The classic
        on Biblical literature is this book:

        Amazon.com: The Art Of Biblical Narrative...Amazon.com: The Art Of Biblical Narrative...
        It may be overkill for the layperson but it makes my point
        on the academic level.

        Every thing I learn about copywriting is already in the Bible!

        -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Hoffman
    The word loops is taken from "nested loops" from NLP I believe. Extremely powerful in verbal story telling and influencing a person unconsciously. Done in the printed word they lose a lot of steam. Not nearly as effective with words alone, but still worth using. The first time I heard of what you describe using this technique in copywriting it was described to me as the "false close". My guess is that is a short loop used toward the end of the letter, right before the actual close.
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  • Love Billy Connolly. Speaking of comedians, Seinfeld episodes seem to me like a series of nested loops.
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  • Profile picture of the author fbyrne
    Interesting responses

    I read somewhere that the idea was to leave loops open as that stimulates curiosity and people read on to find the answers...but I guess if you leave too many loops open it becomes confusing...

    Fergal
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    • Profile picture of the author TG12
      I like reading about stuff like this! Interesting theory.
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    • Profile picture of the author videolover7
      Originally Posted by fbyrne View Post

      Interesting responses

      I read somewhere that the idea was to leave loops open as that stimulates curiosity and people read on to find the answers...but I guess if you leave too many loops open it becomes confusing...

      Fergal
      To me, a loop that's not closed insults the reader.

      VL
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      • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
        Originally Posted by videolover7 View Post

        To me, a loop that's not closed insults the reader.

        VL
        When I write emails I will usually open a loop that requires the reader to click through in order to get closure. Maybe that makes it more of a wormhole. Anyway, I don't think it's insulting. Teasing, certainly.

        Some people on my list have complained about having to click to find out a piece of information. I just respond with a link and tell them they will feel better once they click it.

        Movie trailers are open loops that cost the price of a ticket to close.

        Film makers sometimes leave loops open. There's Inception and The Blue Lagoon off the top of my head. Certainly makes the afterglow of the story linger.
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        • Profile picture of the author videolover7
          To me, a loop that's not closed insults the reader.

          VL
          Originally Posted by Pusateri View Post

          When I write emails I will usually open a loop that requires the reader to click through in order to get closure. Maybe that makes it more of a wormhole. Anyway, I don't think it's insulting. Teasing, certainly.
          But you're closing the loop once they click. That's different.

          I'm talking about a sales letter that opens it and purposely doesn't close it.

          VL
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  • When you break it down, the dot points are also loops. The Big 3 money seizing opportunities and the 7 wonders of successful copy...these examples, found in all copy and all niche's are doing the same thing, hinting at the hidden gem just enough to get the person interested in what they are so they have to buy to find out.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    Check out Joe Vitale's Buying Trances book. There's an excellent chapter on nested loops.
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    • Profile picture of the author Doceye
      I thought nested loops were when the kid you thought you got rid of when they went off to college, returns home four years later because there aren't any jobs.

      Bada boom.

      And to think y'all are getting this level of humorous entertainment for nothing. Zip. Zilch.

      Less'n I get the requisite "thanks" I'm going to start charging each and every one of you for this service. MC, Visa, and Amex accepted.

      So if you're cash poor, don't sit there trying to dream up a witty rejoinder ... pad my profile, you heathens.
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  • Profile picture of the author fbyrne
    Interesting. Thanks

    Has no one any good examples>-what about writers like Clayton Makepeace, or Becivenga or Carlton-might they not unconsciously use these techniques-say without knowing NLP?

    Fergal
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Hill
      Originally Posted by fbyrne View Post

      Interesting. Thanks

      Has no one any good examples>-what about writers like Clayton Makepeace, or Becivenga or Carlton-might they not unconsciously use these techniques-say without knowing NLP?

      Fergal
      I don't have the exact reference at hand, but in an interview one time, it was pointed out that Clayton was using several classic NLP techniques in his copywriting.

      His response was along the lines of "Well, ok, if you say so."

      So while NLP was not something he was using deliberately, he was using the techniques that he had learned were effective. NLP just happened to be an area where those techniques were also used.
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  • Profile picture of the author annabelle07
    In writing, loops are common, vital methods to keep your readers engaged. Some things keep you guessing, sometimes the readers are let in on the protagonist's hamartia and you keep thinking "no, don't do that......Oh Gosh! what's gonna happen now?"
    In modern racy writing, loops keep occurring throughout, sometimes making it difficult to remember the principal plot. I have read so many novels and writings recently which i just remember reading but don't actually remember what it is all about. But you won't easily forget 'Gone with the Wind' or 'A Tale of Two Cities'. Truly, too much of anything is dangerous.
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  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
    I wouldn't really call a false close a nested loop, but I guess it depends on the context.

    As for NLP vs not NLP ...

    The people who are REAL masters at NLP NEVER (or extremely rarely) bring awareness to what they are doing as being "NLP."

    That is ... I have seen lots of excellent NLP training that was never labeled as such -- but by knowing the background of the author, I knew where it came from.

    While that exhibits a certain elegance in using the NLP technology, it also obscures its origin in various contexts.

    There are many people who are "trained" in NLP who have never taken an NLP course nor may even be aware of the initials "NLP."

    At the same time, the oppoosite is true ... NLP is about modeling excellence ... so it becomes a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kinda problem.

    Live JoyFully!

    Judy Kettenhofen
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    • Profile picture of the author Pusateri
      There's no such thing as NLP. It's just a label applied by NLPers to things invented/discovered elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author i am brad
    Soap Operas are classic examples of opening loops then cutting to another scene/commercial to get you to continue watching and then closing it later or even the next day.
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    • Just a thought on the loops thing.

      Don't bet all your money on them.

      Because a percentage of your audience may forget that you opened a loop in the first place.

      And another percentage don't care.


      Steve


      P.S. It can be safer to stick to the mantra that millions of people who read Ads have been screaming for years

      "Tell me now, and tell me true, or else dear copywriter to hell with you - I'm far too busy to pay that much attention... "
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  • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
    if you really wanna learn how to use loops I suggest you read autoresponder madness by andrea chapreon. Crazy good.


    Posted from Warrior Forum Reader for Android
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