Honesty

Frank Kern can sell shed loads of product using anti no work.

Here's a long demonstration of it...

"DO NOT REGISTER if you're resistant to the fact that my results are in no way remotely typical. You must understand that the financial results I have achieved have come at the high cost of 13 years of long days, longer nights, and hard work.

I cannot, and will not imply that you or anyone will achieve the same ...or will do anything at all for that matter. Nobody controls your destiny but YOU.

DO NOT REGISTER if you're unwilling or unable to tolerate risk, hard work, adversity, criticism, and frustration in order to reach your financial goals.

As entrepreneurs, you and I face a tough fight against all manner of challenges every day - regardless of what we sell. And it's a fight we can, do, and will continue to WIN ...for all that is worth having is worth fighting for.

If such harsh truth is unpalatable, leave now. Make room for those who are willing to create their fortune from their own labor and value provided to their marketplaces. For they are the ones who fuel the engine that turns the world. And we need them now more than ever.

DO NOT REGISTER if you're searching for a way to extract money from a market with no value given in return. If you sell "get rich quick doing nothing" or any other type of offer which is even remotely out of compliance with regulatory guidelines, take it somewhere else. We don't run that type of operation here."

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Best,
Ewen

@Steve, ewen -- fantastic examples you pulled there. Cheers

And Steve, yeah, I am British, so maybe that does make me less inclined to overwhelming hype, I'm relatively reserved and I see a lot of the "Make $28839 in 2 days" (or any similar promises to newbies) as absolutely ridiculous.

And Jeremey, this is EXACTLY the kind of stuff that I *want* to express, because this is the cold hard truth, but I see sales letters left right and centre promising work with zero income (even claims like 'automatic' and 'turnkey' and 'done for you' as Loren suggests seem to imply zero work and are just not realistic whatsoever). Then I read Shoemoney advising us to promise loads of money with zero work, and these conflicting (completely opposite) opinions just confuse me even more.

We're advised to appeal to a buyer's desires, and of course that is large amounts of cash, but then we also need to counter objections. If I don't promise large amounts of cash with zero work, am I shooting myself in the foot? (Sort of a repeat of the original question I know, but I still have no idea which road to take...)

These are what steve said. Disclaimers...

They are another way of saying "I'm not responsible if you don't make any money, these results are not typical, blah blah blah FTC don't come after me".

Truth is most people are lazy. They want a magic button system where they don't have to work. They want to retire and live on the beach while making millions doing nothing.

That's why no work products are so successful. People buy into that dream the sales pitch creates in their mind. It's hard to sell someone something when it includes slaving over a PC 5 hours a day to get rich. It can be done, but the most important element when trying to go that route is...

Proof. If you have undeniable proof that your product will make someone money. That there is a pot of gold waiting for them if they just put in the work. They will do it, but you need a huge amount of proof and credibility. Or...

You can just do what every other "guru" out there does. Fake it till you make it and sell the dream.

I LOVE this one - thanks for sharing.

It may also be profitable to play up the idea that the hard work your prospects do is setting them up for true success and independence, versus the "hard work" that 99% of the population do working for someone else to fill their employer's bank accounts.

Discredit those "get rich quick" schemes and hold yourself up as an example of how hard work can generate wealth and independence. You may also want to reveal how the hard work your prospects are investing is nothing compared to the hard labor many "working joe's" endure week in and week out, driving trucks, programming databases, changing old people's diapers, or the like.

...How the "hard work" you'll need to invest in their success isn't really a JOB, it's a rewarding journey down the path of financial freedom....As with any journey, there will be trials along the way, but the rewards that await them at the end of the journey can pay dividends for years to come.

...Something like that. The point is to build up your prospect's self confidence and self respect and acknowledge that with a little effort on their part, you WILL offer a legitimate chance at lasting success...

You should take the advice above it is spot on. I like this and the fact that really if you want anything in life it is going to be damn hard work at first getting it. Despite the fact that the authorities will be down on you like a ton of bricks if you say it is push button simple anyway - hence all the disclaimers everywhere nowadays.

Of which the points above from Frank turn it into a typical fun to do thing. So you could say that this is the opportunity that awaits you if you are willing to put in the effort in the first place.

I really think all the push button stuff has really destroyed a lot of things. Hence all the refund happy people and clickbank cracking down. If you set expectations from the beginning with this will take you at least 3mths if you put in 4hrs per day etc is a reasonable thing for people to do.

Great that your standing up for yourself anyway honesty is the best policy

Mike, thankyou for your post, yes, it was definitely very useful, in particular your point about how much time it is SAVING them rather than it being cut and dry zero time, zero work quick riches. I am confident that my product can save the buyer months, possibly years. So I am definitely going to cover that angle but I could never claim 'zero work'. I like your 'fish' example, it's exactly how people are. But is anyone going to sell another person an already running, 'push button' business that makes six figures for $97, $497 or even $3000+? A 'cooked, cleaned fish' is so valuable that it requires a lot of work, time, effort and expense to set up successfully. Yes, it's partly the fault of the average person (see Raydal's most recent post) that they are so lazy and indulgent to think that they could get rich from simply buying a course and doing nothing. But as per Shoemoney's recommendation, it seems to me that this desire for quick riches or the 'pre-cooked, cleaned fish' is a 'low hanging fruit' / 'easy pickings' for copywriters as it is so common and so powerful that it can easily override all logic and objections, and hence get the sale. It is a copywriter's job to understand the target market's desires and address them in the copy, but at what point does it become a flat out lie or manipulation? I want to sell honestly, my product is quality, but can I , or indeed anyone, guarantee tons of money for zero work? No, no one can. So I am uncomfortable if I had to take that approach. But am I being naive?

Jeremey, Yes, Shoemoney's email did have a lot of points besides this line, however he did say loud and clear, to guarantee that the user will make a ton of money (that in itself depends on their effort, ability etc., I guess stuff covered by the extensive disclaimers nowadays)...and at the SAME time Guarantee...zero work . There is no way you can make a 'ton of money' with 'zero work' when you're trying to set up an online business unless you are gambling. It may be the main feature of a lot of high converting copy in this niche but tons of money + zero work guarantees are not just good copy, they are just lies. Is it really necessary for us to lie in order to convert well? And even if you've got a great Frank Kern style disclaimer at the end of it, it's likely his copy contains similar tons of money guarantees, and he's just using that custom disclaimer to cover his ass.



Ray, ho-ly cow. What a post. How on earth did you read my mind like that? Your wife probably has the right idea. I am starting to think that maybe I am way too naive. I also try to see the best in everyone. I don't want to think that the majority of people are selfish, lazy, indulgent, impatient and lack integrity... when the fact is, probably many, many more people are like that than my ideals would have me think. You are right, maybe I have been thinking about selling to my SELF rather than to my MARKET. And this is probably why Shoemoney said what he said in the first place, because that's just the way things are. If it gets the best conversions by far, then why ditch that tactic? I just get uncomfortable when I try to confront the reality of most people I'm selling to being lazy, indulgent, impatient etc., so I imagine them all being like myself instead. I imagine that I would want brutal honesty in a sales letter, down to the precise amount of hours you will have to work slaving away at your computer when you're trying to set up a business online. This is because I would have saved myself a lot of time, expense and pain if I had just been told the brutal, honest truth at the start. But most people don't even want to know the truth. They want to buy the latest product click a few buttons and become rich. I guess the attitude of many copywriters is that these buyers are to blame as much as the sellers, if not more so, and I can see their point. I *want* the market the think like me, so that I could be brutally honest, almost too honest as you mention, but I think the cold hard facts about setting up an online business are often too much for the average casual IMer to deal with. I have a hard time selling stuff to people even if it's a really great product, because I know they're not going to use it. They're just going to pay for it, sure I keep the money, but they are going to throw it away along with the dozens of other products, and never make anything. But if they've been GUARANTEED 'push button', 'instant', and then they see it actually DOES require work... then of course they're going to throw it away.

I am going to be as honest as I can. I won't claim guaranteed tons of money for zero work, in my opinion there may be legal issues from that. But as Ray has pointed out, I am also going to consider the nature of my market, not simply MY OWN nature. Maybe my market doesn't want to hear intricate, gory details of business that they aren't ready for yet. And maybe I will have to just write completely different versions split-test to see what actually works.

Once again, thankyou to everyone sincerely for such a stimulating discussion, it's wonderful to see such experienced copywriters taking the time out to give their valuable insight. A really wonderful resource for a beginner like me!

Hi Alex,

Thankyou for elaborating. I did a bit of research on these "mechanisms" as I was intrigued by what you said, and it strikes me as something I was thinking beforehand.

The "levels of sophistication" of the market that he mentions increasing as the market matures and the same offers are made over and over again, e.g. "$25,934 in 7 days with no work!" - would surely according to this theory be ineffective? I know personally that when I see such claims I just ignore it, I am now blind to it. Unless they can give a credible "mechanism" to justify such bold claims, it will not even register with me. But that is *ME*, as for my market as a whole, is the general 'sophistication' such that bold claims like that would not work on the market in general, not just on me? Is the IM market mature enough for it to require a new unique mechanism? My instinct is telling me yes, but I am sure expert copywriters here would know better than I do, since my main problem does seem to be awareness only of myself, and not of my market as a whole.

By the way, this may be a silly question I am not sure, but in what way is the unique mechanism different from the USP, if at all?



bizgrower, some really interesting points there. You mention marketing to lazy, push button easy people, but if I don't do that, I would be excluding the vast majority of the market, since unfortunately most people are lazy. They don't want to roll their sleeves up and endure sleepless nights and pain to reach their goals. They want it quick, easy, and right now. It's human nature I guess. If I am in the MMO niche, and I am promising results with a lot of hard work, time, effort and pain, no one would choose my product over some other guy who is promising riches in 7 days. I don't think my business could survive by heavily restricting the type of buyer to a tiny percentage of the overall market. However I completely see where you're coming from with regard to not selling the idea of cars, mansions, free time and money in general. Focus on the HOW to a relatively 'savvy' market, but as copywriters we are supposed to pay most attention to benefits, right? Whatever the methods may be, however great they may be, the strongest benefit however you word it is getting rich. And that benefit has the strongest emotional impact. Like you, I am not sold on the fantasies of cars, mansions etc., but are we what most people in this market are like?

The result of this thread is that I am more knowledgeable and had some epiphanies thanks to the brilliant contributions from great salesmen in this thread, but I am also in many ways more confused than before...