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Dealing with Old Copy

by hhhusted
22 replies
Hey Copywriters,

I have two questions for you. If you run into a client that has a landing page or sales copy in place, but he wants it revised or updated, how do you handle it? Do you suggest that you do a completely new sales copy from scratch, or do a patch job on his existing copy?
#copy #copywiter #copywriting #copywriting advice #dealing #dealing with copy
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Depends on how the sales copy is performing.

    If it's not converting, throw it in the crapper and start from scratch.

    If it is converting, tweak it.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
    It's just my preference, but in that situation I would prefer to write it completely fresh. You can take some elements and some existing parts of the page and re-write it if you like the layout, but why not re-write it and make it better?

    I know not all clients will take suggestions or want to do what you suggest, but in that case, go line by line and think about how you can convey a message better than the previous Copywriter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve The Copywriter
    It'll usually be all about the business or the owner.

    Often known as "Optician Sites"

    Because they're "Eye specialists"

    So, change it to focus on the customers.

    Turn the "I's" into 'You's"


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    If it's made him money before, try changing the headline.

    Sometimes that will do the trick.

    Changing things like headline, subheads, - the most prominent parts of the copy - can do the trick if the body copy is fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Originally Posted by hhhusted View Post

    Hey Copywriters,

    I have two questions for you. If you run into a client that has a landing page or sales copy in place, but he wants it revised or updated, how do you handle it? Do you suggest that you do a completely new sales copy from scratch, or do a patch job on his existing copy?
    Whichever - total rewrite or punch up - you split test your new creative against the existing copy and establish a "control" (a version that beats all others).

    Let their existing conversion data dictate what to do:

    If it's doing jacksquat... write a new piece or try an entirely different layout/design.

    If it's losing effectiveness but sort of working, test new headlines and new offers.

    Brian
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    Brian McLeod
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    You mean to say you took a Client's money without knowing how you're going to help them?

    And now you've resorted to asking a bunch guys you don't know and have no idea what their experience is their opinions?

    Without telling them what the market is? Without letting them see the landing page? Without doing the research?

    Sorry, but everyone's shooting in the dark on this one.

    Not only that, but pricing optimization services is a different animal than writing landing page copy from scratch.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but if I were the Client, I'd be asking for my money back right about now.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      You mean to say you took a Client's money without knowing how you're going to help them?

      [snip]

      Maybe I'm wrong, but if I were the Client, I'd be asking for my money back right about now.

      - Rick Duris
      Careful, I didn't read this to indicate there even IS a client.

      I read it as a hypothetical question.
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      Brian McLeod
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      • Profile picture of the author hhhusted
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        Careful, I didn't read this to indicate there even IS a client.

        I read it as a hypothetical question.
        Yes, Brian. That is what is was. I was merely getting viewpoints from other copywriters. I just wanted to get an idea what other members in this forum would do.

        Actually, I had an experience like this a while back. He had an existing copy that someone else created. It was doing well, but he was a perfectionist and wanted it to do even better. In other words, the copy was getting, if I remember correctly, 35% response rate. He wanted that rate to go over 60%.

        I suggested a complete re-write, but he said no. He just wanted the copy tweaked. I read over his copy and saw many areas that could have been improved. I provided my ideas, and he rejected them. He said he didn't want me to change a lot, just to tweak it. So I gave him three different headlines and sub-headlines that could pull in better.

        He told me two weeks later that he used one of my headlines and sub-headlines, and noticed his conversions went up to 20% higher than the previous response rate, but he still was not satisfied. At that point I told him to go elsewhere because he wanted to reach levels that were hard to achieve.

        I lost contact with him so I don't know if he ever got what he wanted or not.

        Has any copywriter on this forum ever got a response rate above 50%? Just curious. If not, what was the highest rate you ever achieved with your copy? When I say response, I mean an actual lead or sale. I know this is also known as conversion, but I prefer to call it response rate.
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        With 20+ years’ experience, I can help YOU stop struggling to stand out, with a more dynamic marketing message, SEO, an attention-getting e-book, or a catchy jingle of your own to reel in those prospects.

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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    When you're hired to beat a control, I've found it's always best to demand complete freedom.

    Personally, I don't want a shred of the previous content left.

    I never wanted to tweak, twang or twittle. If you want someone to do that then look elsewhere.

    I never did remodel jobs on an existing control.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      When you're hired to beat a control, I've found it's always best to demand complete freedom.

      Personally, I don't want a shred of the previous content left.

      I never wanted to tweak, twang or twittle. If you want someone to do that then look elsewhere.

      I never did remodel jobs on an existing control.
      I assumed the OP meant copy he wrote, or would have written, himself. Not control someone else had written.
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      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

        I assumed the OP meant copy he wrote, or would have written, himself. Not control someone else had written.
        The whole thing was vague and everyone gave good answers based on what they thought.

        I just figured, what the hell, I'll go with my thoughts.

        Wasn't saying anyone was right or wrong...I still enjoyed the comments.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
    Originally Posted by hhhusted View Post

    Hey Copywriters,

    I have two questions for you. If you run into a client that has a landing page or sales copy in place, but he wants it revised or updated, how do you handle it? Do you suggest that you do a completely new sales copy from scratch, or do a patch job on his existing copy?
    The client is looking to get revised or new copy as cheaply as possible. Probably because the current copy they're using it's currently not doing well.

    The rule of thumb I've used in the past is to quote based on the number of pages to be rewritten but I've heard of some copywriters doing it for 50% of their normal fee with no research done on the target market or product itself. In these cases, the copywriter is just providing better written copy... not necessarily a better hook, theme, or better targeted copy.

    If I were doing a rewrite (and I haven't done them in years), I would not "patch" the copy. I would use only pieces of the copy that fit into what I was rewriting.

    The problem is, the vast majority of the time, the client's copy is poorly written. There's little or no copy that is worth reusing. It's usually faster and more likely to convert well for the client to write a new salesletter from scratch.

    Hope that helps,

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    My apologies Harry, if I unintentionally and unnecessarily impugned.

    To answer your questions regarding your client, there are too many variables and unknowns for me to comment.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      My apologies Harry, if I unintentionally and unnecessarily impugned.
      Softy.

      Haw!
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      Brian McLeod
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        Softy.

        Haw!
        It's my new year's resolution. A softer, gentler Rick Duris.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
          Banned
          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post


          It's my new year's resolution. A softer, gentler Rick Duris.
          Any softer and more gentle than you already are Rick and you'll positively squelch.

          You're already like a big cuddly teddy bear such is your lovely attitude on the whole.

          Sometimes I just wish I could be a bit more like you instead of being like a bull in a china shop at times.
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  • Profile picture of the author Quality Copywriter
    I was reading "why your copywriting sucks" recently by Jon Mc Culloch and he makes a good point at the begining that any changes to a client's copy can usually improve it if you are a copywriter because most businesses simply don't have a clue.

    They use their logo as their headline a lot of the time.

    So any change is usually a good one if you have even basic understanding of sales in print.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Quality Copywriter View Post

      I was reading "why your copywriting sucks" recently by Jon Mc Culloch...
      You know Jon? Damn good copywriter from Ireland. Excellent fellow.

      Not spoken with him in ages Peter. How is he do you know?
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      • Profile picture of the author Quality Copywriter
        I don't actually know him but I read he moved to Ireland while back.

        Ireland's tiny though so he's probaly living down the road. lol
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        "Peter Brennan is the real deal, In the first 12 hours we did $80k...and over $125k in the first week...if you want to be successful online, outsource your copywriting to Peter"
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        For 12 ways to sell more stuff to more people today...go to...www.peterbrennan.net
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    • Profile picture of the author hhhusted
      Originally Posted by Quality Copywriter View Post

      I was reading "why your copywriting sucks" recently by Jon Mc Culloch and he makes a good point at the begining that any changes to a client's copy can usually improve it if you are a copywriter because most businesses simply don't have a clue.

      They use their logo as their headline a lot of the time.

      So any change is usually a good one if you have even basic understanding of sales in print.
      That's an interesting point. Thanks for mentioning it. I met a client that had no clue what a copywriter did, or what copy was. I guess he was new to the Internet. He hired me to write an e-book for him. Who knows what he did after that point.
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      -----------------------------------------------------------
      Harry Husted
      http://www.creatingwords.com
      With 20+ years’ experience, I can help YOU stop struggling to stand out, with a more dynamic marketing message, SEO, an attention-getting e-book, or a catchy jingle of your own to reel in those prospects.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    This is a traffic question as much as a rewrite/revise one.

    For instance...

    If there is extremely targeted, high-quality traffic being sent to a page that's only converting at 5% when 20% should be the norm, I'd rewrite it.

    If the traffic is so-so or outright crap and it's converting at 2-5%, I wouldn't even touch the copy until it's tested against relevant traffic.

    Maybe find a super-affiliate who sees the potential and will send his or her list onto the site, watch where the conversions fall.

    If conversions excel, you're not needed.

    If conversions flop, rewrite the som'bitch.

    Somewhere in the middle?

    See what tweaks you can make, quickly, and get some more of that sweet loving traffic back on it.

    That being said...

    If the copy sucks and you know that immediately...

    ...be the expert and create something that reflects the brand, has a strong central theme and REALLY connects with prospects.

    Boom!

    Mark
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