$10,000 Copywriting Challenge

69 replies
Hello fellow warriors! We have a new and excellent weight loss/health/lifestyle product ready for converting copy.

We are currently using our own copy/VSL, and while the results have been decent, we are not satisfied...

...so we have created this $10,000 copywriting challenge, open to all copywriters with reasonable experience in the weightloss/health niche!

We are currently accepting multiple entries to the contest, and will split test the submitted copy versus our current control. The copy that beats our control by the largest margin wins a cool $10,000!

If you are interested in a real shot at the 10k, please PM us with your email so we may respond to discuss the product and to make sure you have everything you need prior to starting.

Thanks and good luck!
Phil
#$10 #challenge #copywriting
  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    To get serious folks submitting, you're going to have to give us some assurance the prize money will be awarded.

    Last year, this gentleman below did an admirable job in conducting his contest, but you can see he had a couple of hurdles to overcome.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...t-control.html

    Recently, this gentleman below did an equally admirable job conducting his. But he had an advantage. He was known to the community.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...g-contest.html

    You'll be able to learn do's and don't's from each.

    Your biggest challenge is you're an unknown. You're going to have to provide assurances a winner will be chosen and they will be paid--even if the winning copy still does not convert acceptably against cold traffic.

    I hope this makes sense, and you're not offended by our collective cautiousness.

    You can start by showing us the current winning control & website.

    Good luck with your contest.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author philanderson70
      Hey guys, we're having a conference call this Friday for all interested parties... details will be sent to those that send a PM prior to.

      I can assure you prize money will be rewarded, and we will provide further details via email and on the call.

      cheers,
      Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Phil,

    The problem is... stuff like this is such a catch 22.

    Kinda like the "i can't get a job cause I don't have
    any experience and I don't have any experience cause I
    can't find a job."

    Well, when you're telling copywriters to write great copy
    for a "chance" to get paid... you're automatically going
    to limit the better writers.

    Why?

    Because the better writers usually are booked with
    paying gigs and will not write anything without
    being paid.

    So, you're usually left with the sub-par, mediocre
    writers who will bombard your PM box with messages,
    yet hand you copy that won't convert.

    You're much better off setting up a smaller amount
    up front, to compensate the writer for his/her time
    and then tie in performance later on, for a % of sales.

    Because with few exceptions... the writers who can
    knock this out of the park for you will not spend any
    amount of time with a "chance" to get paid.

    So again, you're left with the writers who have all
    the free time in the world... but those aren't always
    the best writers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      In other words Phil...

      You're asking me/us to waste a possible 40+ hours of my/our time on a chance I/we might be compensated for my/our time and expertise.

      Sorry but it doesn't work like that.

      You want sales copy - you pay for it. You pay for my/our time. You pay for my/our expertise. We don't and won't work on some fanciful whim. Money talks in this business.

      Either post up the link to your current control here or face the fact you're going to come across as a bit of a 'fake'.

      Sure, you might have all the integrity in the world but I/we don't know that. I/we don't know who you are, where you're from, what your experience is or indeed, whether you actually have any money or not in your bank account to pay this 'prize' money.

      No more excuses, let's see the link to the current control posted up below...


      Mark Andrews

      P.S. Edit: Phil just sent the link to me via pm, here it is...

      http://www.fbtnow.com/sp/8221-foreve...pid=55435900-1
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Phil,

    Give the details Rick asked for.

    Then maybe you might get a surprise entry from one - or more - of the new guys just starting out.

    You'd be giving them a chance to prove themselves without really losing out. Even if they don't win, they build a portfolio.

    And you might end up with some decent copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Phil,

    I checked out the copy briefly... and I'll be honest, it's not horrible.

    I've seen much, much worse.

    With that being said... this market is my bread and butter and
    one that I've sold millions in.

    And I can tell you... this letter will not give you the results
    you want, primarily for 2 big reasons.

    1. There's no real USP.... there's nothing different/better/unique
    that's not already being done on the top 10 of clickbank.

    If you're gonna take this to clickbank, you've got your hands
    full going up against a guy like Mike Geary who does 12 million
    a year.

    The entire time I was watching the video, I just had this sense
    that I've seen the same thing hundreds of times.

    Again, the copy isn't bad... and you could possibly do okay
    with it, but my guess is... no one ever sets out to do "okay".

    2. Proof. You'll need to add more proof to the sales pitch.

    Now, I must admit... I didn't watch all the way through,
    so maybe you added some proof towards the end.

    But these days, you want to hit with proof right away.

    Give people a reason to keep watching.

    So, again.... the letter isn't horrible, but it's just
    not anything different/better/unique/faster/cheaper, etc...

    Back when I owned my fitness businesses.... I'd hire
    guys like John Carlton JUST to work on my USP...
    it was THAT important.

    Just having a completely new and "wow"
    USP can change your life.

    Tony Horton was a broke personal trainer, living
    in his car, when he put together P90X...

    that's the power of a good USP and plenty of
    social proof.

    But again, your copy isn't horrible.
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    • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
      Shawn has made some very valid points - although Shawn thinks your video isn't horrible, I would say it was dull at best...

      Why?

      - you mention a few times that this program is unlike anything you've ever seen...but I disagree - there's NO hook whatsoever
      - I'm not seeing anything that hasn't been done before
      - your 'myths' have also been done to death

      One of my clients had a fitness and fat loss system where I spent an entire week just working on the hook.

      A few other things - do you have a squeeze page and autoresponders to presell traffic and warm it up BEFORE they get to the sales page?

      What are your current conversion rates?

      Where is your traffic coming from?

      How targeted is your traffic?

      Do you have a list?

      Have you got affiliates?

      How are you marketing?

      I wouldn't mind having a stab at this...but I need to know it's worth my time and until I know the answers to the questions I've just asked, I'll pass...
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      • Profile picture of the author The Marketeer
        Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

        Shawn has made some very valid points - although Shawn thinks your video isn't horrible, I would say it was dull at best...

        Why?

        - you mention a few times that this program is unlike anything you've ever seen...but I disagree - there's NO hook whatsoever
        - I'm not seeing anything that hasn't been done before
        - your 'myths' have also been done to death

        One of my clients had a fitness and fat loss system where I spent an entire week just working on the hook.

        A few other things - do you have a squeeze page and autoresponders to presell traffic and warm it up BEFORE they get to the sales page?

        What are your current conversion rates?

        Where is your traffic coming from?

        Is your traffic really targeted?

        Do you have a list?

        Have you got affiliates?

        How are you marketing?

        I wouldn't mind having a stab at this...but I need to know it's worth my time and until I know the answers to the questions I've just asked, I'll pass...
        What she said ^

        I lost interest once the expert started speaking.

        Needs better visuals.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post

      Tony Horton was a broke personal trainer, living
      in his car, when he put together P90X...

      that's the power of a good USP and plenty of
      social proof.

      But again, your copy isn't horrible.
      Is this really true?

      I mean, it seems almost every other person doing online business was at some point broke and living out of their cars.

      I even made up a meme on FB about this https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Wrote it on a laptop that was charging in your car, right?
        Nah. In my nice warm home...

        On my home computer written in mspaint.

        My kids are using the laptop.
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    • Originally Posted by shawnlebrun View Post


      Tony Horton was a broke personal trainer, living
      in his car, when he put together P90X...

      that's the power of a good USP and plenty of
      social proof.
      Hard to imagine! I'm going through P90x right now - I love the guy. I've heard so many people complain and whine about his comic quips, but I pretty much laugh the whole way through the workouts.

      Guy's a legend.
      Signature
      50% converting squeeze pages, 12% converting WSO's, and more...
      BenPalmerWilson Copywriting
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      • Profile picture of the author philanderson70
        Guys thanks for the discussion... we'll be starting to send out invites to the call today... interested parties will receive them via email or PM.

        A few notes on your latest posts...

        1. This copy should be geared toward converting to cold traffic, not just warm list traffic.

        2. We know the control copy is mediocre, that's why we're running the contest.

        3. Products like TAA aren't doing that kind of volume anymore for a variety of reasons... if you've really paid attention in this space, things have changed in many ways since a couple of years ago. The top sites then were doing 5-6 mil visitors/month... now they're doing 1-1.5 mil visitors/mo. tops.

        Alright, just a couple more days to join the challenge... ;-)
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        • Profile picture of the author FuNwiThChRiS
          Would you walk into a restaurant and say, "Cook me a steak dinner, send me a bottle of your best wine, and wash the dishes when I'm done? I might pay you for it later if you win my personal taste-test-challenge?"

          Seriously, anyone who participates in this "opportunity" is wasting their time.

          Get real, this is a professional (or aspiring to-be-professional) environment.
          Signature

          Work hard, live a happy life, cherish your family and friends. Be thankful for every day.

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          • Profile picture of the author philanderson70
            Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS View Post

            Would you walk into a restaurant and say, "Cook me a steak dinner, send me a bottle of your best wine, and wash the dishes when I'm done? I might pay you for it later if you win my personal taste-test-challenge?"

            Seriously, anyone who participates in this "opportunity" is wasting their time.

            Get real, this is a professional (or aspiring to-be-professional) environment.
            Actually that's a poor comparison. A realistic comparison would be something like a Chili cook-off or another type of food contest where restaurants put up their best stuff for folks and compete for a prize.

            As with any contest, some will be excited, some will be offended, and some will be too busy with booked work. As Harlan eloquently stated, if you have an opening or things are a bit slow, at the very least exercise your instrument, which should get some sharpening as you go up against your peers.
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          • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
            Banned
            Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS View Post

            Would you walk into a restaurant and say, "Cook me a steak dinner, send me a bottle of your best wine, and wash the dishes when I'm done? I might pay you for it later if you win my personal taste-test-challenge?"

            Seriously, anyone who participates in this "opportunity" is wasting their time.

            Get real, this is a professional (or aspiring to-be-professional) environment.
            That's what a few of the so-called "top copywriters" said the last time there was a $10k contest here. In the end TWO newbies got paid - the winner got $10k and the runner-up a grand or two. But like everything - do your "due diligence". You're never "wasting your time" writing copy - more you write the better you get. You never know what doors might open.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean Fry
            Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS View Post

            Would you walk into a restaurant and say, "Cook me a steak dinner, send me a bottle of your best wine, and wash the dishes when I'm done? I might pay you for it later if you win my personal taste-test-challenge?"

            Seriously, anyone who participates in this "opportunity" is wasting their time.

            Get real, this is a professional (or aspiring to-be-professional) environment.
            I don't consider entering contests like this a "waste of time." Of course, I might be biased.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
            Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS View Post

            Would you walk into a restaurant and say, "Cook me a steak dinner, send me a bottle of your best wine, and wash the dishes when I'm done? I might pay you for it later if you win my personal taste-test-challenge?"

            Seriously, anyone who participates in this "opportunity" is wasting their time.

            Get real, this is a professional (or aspiring to-be-professional) environment.


            Tell that to the guys Dan Caron paid out to.
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        • Profile picture of the author Harlan
          Originally Posted by philanderson70 View Post

          Guys thanks for the discussion... we'll be starting to send out invites to the call today... interested parties will receive them via email or PM.

          A few notes on your latest posts...

          1. This copy should be geared toward converting to cold traffic, not just warm list traffic.

          2. We know the control copy is mediocre, that's why we're running the contest.

          3. Products like TAA aren't doing that kind of volume anymore for a variety of reasons... if you've really paid attention in this space, things have changed in many ways since a couple of years ago. The top sites then were doing 5-6 mil visitors/month... now they're doing 1-1.5 mil visitors/mo. tops.

          Alright, just a couple more days to join the challenge... ;-)
          Who do you think the top sites are today?
          Signature

          Harlan D. Kilstein Ed.D.
          Free NLP Communications Course at http://www.nlpcopywriting.com
          http://overnight-copy.com
          Get Fit In Four Minuteshttp://just4minutes.com
          Learn how to build a Super Site Without SEO http://supersiteformula.com

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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    @ Arfa.... that's actually a perfect word... dull... was trying to put my finger
    on why I was feeling like "man, I feel like i've seen this a hundred times"

    Dull is spot on!

    @ Rez...

    Yeah, I remember watching something on CNBC on Tony. It might have been
    "How I Made My Millions" and if I remember right, he was flat broke and I thought
    they said living in his car... but either way, I know he wasn't making it and then
    presto... he hit it with P90x... which if I remember right, was pretty much a
    packaging of some of his other stuff.

    But I think you're right, Rez... out of every single "made it big" story,
    just about all of them started from nothing, or close to it.

    I love watching Shark Tank... because every so often, the sharks
    will remind those pitching their goods that they've ALL been
    on the Ramen noodle diet before they hit it big.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Guys,

    This is like deja vu all over again. Dan Caron did this and the event was interesting, fun and he got some great copy from a, at the time, nobody.

    As a product owner, I don't think there's a better way to find great sales copy. The idea of paying some guy $25k just because he's got a rep are over. You'd be much better off offering that $25k to the masses and getting 10 pieces of copy to test. It's good business.

    Does it suck for a copywriter to put his balls out there and risk everything for zero return and the public humiliation of losing? Absolutely, but that's life. Those of us that write copy regularly know we don't always write winners. Nobody does. I was skyping with a multi-millionaire CB product owner a month or so ago. He'd commissioned a letter for around $25k and it made him millions. When he hired the same copywriter to "update" the letter, it totally bombed. It happens to the best of us.

    Gary Bencivenga mentioned the best way to beat a control was to write two letters with two totally different appeals. The only way to really move the needle is to change the appeal, but with reward comes risk. In trying a different appeal, you're equally likely to flatline. Such is life and the reason we test.

    Not to segue into a diatribe but a few things in this industry have always bothered me. There are so many $5k-15k/letter copywriters in this IM business that are sadly deluding themselves. They ridiculously think that because some letter they wrote converted at 8+%, they're all that and a bag of chips.

    They conveniently forget that the letter was mailed to a rabid, massaged list of hungry buyers. The conversion rate means squat. Yet they up their rates, talk about CB gravity and their "successes" like they're the second coming of Halbert.

    I'd love for some of these "silver tongued persuaders" to try to pass the Halbert test. Creating a product and mailing it to the hottest list they can find in the SRDS and check the conversions. I'd love to see their cocky attitude evaporate as the "real world" responds, or fails to respond, to their magic words.

    People love to ask the gurus, "If you're product is so good, why are you selling it?" I ask, if your copy is so freaking good, why aren't you selling your own damn products with it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      People love to ask the gurus, "If you're product is so good, why are you selling it?" I ask, if your copy is so freaking good, why aren't you selling your own damn products with it?
      Although Bruce already knows this, for those who don't...

      There is a LOT more to being a successful vendor than simply good copy. There's networking, making connections, dealing with payment processors, fine-tuning conversion processes, dealing with order forms, generating traffic, managing affiliates, etc etc etc.

      These are all very different skill sets to being a great copywriter.

      I know this because I've recently started doing my own thing, both on my own and with partners. And it's been a hell of a learning curve (though admittedly a profitable one).

      You can be a great copywriter and royally screw up when it comes to creating your own products (and vice versa) because there's a lot of skills involved in being a successful "vendor" far beyond being a great copywriter.

      Not to say those skills aren't important, and I think everyone should learn them at least a little. And having your own freedom and not relying on clients is also a great thing.

      A nice transition point IMHO is to partner with clients you trust. I've started doing this and it's working great. For an upfront fee + decent royalties I basically take care of all the copy work and keep testing/tweaking different variations.

      You don't just squeeze more money out of the offer, you build a repertoire of possible fixes for problems and get a much better idea of what does and doesn't work.

      Food for thought,

      -Daniel

      P.S. Bruce, I know we don't know each other well, but you were actually one of my inspirations to get into creating and selling my own stuff. So... thanks.
      Signature

      Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      Guys,

      This is like deja vu all over again. Dan Caron did this and the event was interesting, fun and he got some great copy from a, at the time, nobody.

      As a product owner, I don't think there's a better way to find great sales copy. The idea of paying some guy $25k just because he's got a rep are over. You'd be much better off offering that $25k to the masses and getting 10 pieces of copy to test. It's good business.

      Does it suck for a copywriter to put his balls out there and risk everything for zero return and the public humiliation of losing? Absolutely, but that's life. Those of us that write copy regularly know we don't always write winners. Nobody does. I was skyping with a multi-millionaire CB product owner a month or so ago. He'd commissioned a letter for around $25k and it made him millions. When he hired the same copywriter to "update" the letter, it totally bombed. It happens to the best of us.

      Gary Bencivenga mentioned the best way to beat a control was to write two letters with two totally different appeals. The only way to really move the needle is to change the appeal, but with reward comes risk. In trying a different appeal, you're equally likely to flatline. Such is life and the reason we test.

      Not to segue into a diatribe but a few things in this industry have always bothered me. There are so many $5k-15k/letter copywriters in this IM business that are sadly deluding themselves. They ridiculously think that because some letter they wrote converted at 8+%, they're all that and a bag of chips.

      They conveniently forget that the letter was mailed to a rabid, massaged list of hungry buyers. The conversion rate means squat. Yet they up their rates, talk about CB gravity and their "successes" like they're the second coming of Halbert.

      I'd love for some of these "silver tongued persuaders" to try to pass the Halbert test. Creating a product and mailing it to the hottest list they can find in the SRDS and check the conversions. I'd love to see their cocky attitude evaporate as the "real world" responds, or fails to respond, to their magic words.

      People love to ask the gurus, "If you're product is so good, why are you selling it?" I ask, if your copy is so freaking good, why aren't you selling your own damn products with it?
      And what if the real world does respond well to their magic words? Would that disappoint you because they didn't fail?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

        And what if the real world does respond well to their magic words? Would that disappoint you because they didn't fail?
        Why would it disappoint me? I just complimented Chris Haddad a few days ago on getting wealthy with his copy.

        I'm just pointing out that many live in a jaded world... They're unproven.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

      I'd love for some of these "silver tongued persuaders" to try to pass the Halbert test. Creating a product and mailing it to the hottest list they can find in the SRDS and check the conversions. I'd love to see their cocky attitude evaporate as the "real world" responds, or fails to respond, to their magic words.
      Very strong point, this week I did a small test based on my Skype list. I messaged about 60 people only with a promo that I have running.

      The same day I made 4 sales for that precise service that I never promoted well enough.

      This week I had 85 orders (normally around 40-50 a week), now I have no clue if the Skype messaging had anything to do with it, but those 4 instant sales definitely had.

      Now i have a new service, I am sure it will convert at like 25% when I make the message a bit personal when sending it out to my list (my list only consists of people that bought my service before and I actually never mail them (except for order confirmation/reports etc), so when they get a message from me they will read it and not trash it). So far I offered it to 5 people, 4 of them signed up.
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  • Profile picture of the author verial
    I entered one of these contests when I first started out my copywriting career. The company never even ran my sales letter, meaning I wasted my time.

    Advice to new copywriters: Always get some sort of payment upfront (for sales letters anyway). Especially if the project is a "conversions = money" game (i.e., royalties or contests). At least get something for your work, because you never know what the company will decide to do in the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by verial View Post

      I entered one of these contests when I first started out my copywriting career. The company never even ran my sales letter, meaning I wasted my time.
      Maybe it wasn't good enough. Ever think about that?

      Advice to new copywriters:
      Always get some sort of payment upfront (for sales letters anyway). Especially if the project is a "conversions = money" game (i.e., royalties or contests). At least get something for your work, because you never know what the company will decide to do in the end.
      Riiiight.

      Make sure to get an upfront payment for a competition.

      Especially if you're a newbie.

      You're going around the forum critising every single post like you're the resident expert who knows everything.

      I wouldn't do that if my copy was anything like the ones in your sig file.
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  • I can't really say that it isn't an interesting opportunity but I must subscribe to the general vibe around here ...

    My assumption is that the control is rather hard to beat. This is not your $300 WSO letter but a letter that is already generating sales and which has been optimized for maximum conversion.

    Therefore a new control would take time ... a lot of time. About 30 hours of research and 20 hours of writing and polishing.

    That's 50 hours. An content writer earns about $10/hour. A true copywriter even if he / she does not work on a hourly basis costs can compute at around $50/hour or even more.

    This would account to $2500 invested, $2500 for a simple bet. It's not a simple article or "come up with the best headline" or critique my copy. It's a full fledged project.

    And now ... who would gamble $2500 or 50 hours of his time?

    Now if you would stand behind Agora ... or Boardroom ... or Eben Pagan ... there would be many people to pay $2500 just to get this opportunity. However, unless you can bring some true credibility on board (which shouldn't be too hard), you'll attract a lot of people but 90% will not even deliver until the very end.

    You've got a check of $10.000 ready for the winner. This means you are earning a decent chunk of change from your business. A simple CB link to your product with enough gravity or some other credibility element (please, no screenshots) would convince most of the top copywriters to consider this.

    As far as I'm concerned, I am a decent copywriter and I could have a shot at beating the control but before investing two or three weeks into this (plus extra fees for the research, proofing, editing), I would need some financial assurance.

    $10.000 in escrow would be good enough.

    My two cents

    -- and as far as the "broke, got a great idea, became rich" MO, I don't know if this is true or not, but it's way too overused. Virtually every "guru" said this at a moment in time. Starting with Tony (Robbins), Eben Pagan (how he was desperate to make some money and created DYD in one weekend while sitting in bed) and ending with most rags to riches story, it's starting to get boring.

    Of course most people change in dire circumstances. Dohh ... that's life. Most people who started to work out went there because they were not very healthy or way too fat. Most folks who actually put the effort in and become good get there because they were done in the pit.

    However, as a marketing appeal, it's way too overused.

    Razvan
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    • Profile picture of the author NickN
      As the runner-up in the last $10,000 contest, I strongly recommend up-and-comers giving this a shot.

      The control I beat in that contest was already converting well. And if this one is converting well, and you beat it, that's going to do HUGE things for your reputation.

      I mean, if you have the time, why not? At the very least, you're getting practice AND something you can add to your portfolio (or another credential to add to your resume, at the very least).

      So if you're an up-and-comer with chops, please give this a shot.
      Signature

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  • I think it was John Carlton who said something like...

    I feel a lot better writing copy when I know I have the mortgage paid and lights are not going to go off

    With respect...This type of thing pre-supposes that people are desperate for work and will have a shot at anything.

    That being said...If I did have the time..I'd give it a shot...thankfully I don't as I have some really great clients I'm really grateful for.
    Signature
    "Peter Brennan is the real deal, In the first 12 hours we did $80k...and over $125k in the first week...if you want to be successful online, outsource your copywriting to Peter"
    Adam Linkenauger

    For 12 ways to sell more stuff to more people today...go to...www.peterbrennan.net
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    You have to do what's right for you at the end of the day.

    If you want the challenge and you have the time, then it makes sense.

    Personally, my time is way too valuable to spend time on this type of challenge. I 'd rather spend my time as I do on creating my own products and enjoying the profits.
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    • Profile picture of the author copyassassin
      Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      .

      Personally, my time is way too valuable to spend time on this type of challenge. I 'd rather spend my time as I do on creating my own products and enjoying the profits.

      Thomas,

      There is another point of the view on this (btw, I respect yours as well):

      Some people like to write. Just write. And research. And other stuff that goes into copywriting.

      And those same people have NO desire to: get traffic, hire a staff, manage a staff, manage a call center, deal with product liability, deal with coaching clients, and other production related issues.

      Creating products, and I mean real products that aren't simple ebooks, takes an entire coordinated effort.

      And yes, if you have the ability to personally write copy AND produce, you've got the golden ticket. If you are primarily a copywriter AND you partner with a killer producer, you've got a golden ticket.

      But, many don't.

      They just like to write. And are happy making between 60k-200k.

      Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author SashaLee
    I ask, if your copy is so freaking good, why aren't you selling your own damn products with it?
    One thing to say about this comment - ouch! Great point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    I don't know what all of the drama is about.

    I watched the current control.

    Very beatable.

    Extremely beatable.

    Well made video. No doubt.

    But the first couple minutes are not emotionally gripping (although I'm admittedly far from a "dual voice" presentation.)

    If you have the time (and I guess the video producing/editing ability,) you shouldn't have too much trouble here.

    Note to self:

    I need to learn how to make VSL's.

    mark
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  • Profile picture of the author tac88
    Every time I see someone doing something like this it turns out to be a scam to get something for free. In this case sounds like he wants a bunch of idiots to work for free and give him a bunch of free copy...

    Sorry man where I come from you have to pay for what you want ..
    If you can not afford a top copy writer go to odesk and find some schlep that will work for a peanut..
    Dude has like 4 posts and of course come up with this kinda scam...
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by tac88 View Post

      Every time I see someone doing something like this it turns out to be a scam to get something for free.
      Except for that pesky example of EXACTLY THIS type of competition working out just fine... right here... just a few months ago.

      And the winners of that competition posting in THIS thread about it along with links to the whole saga (which was predictably equally sour, until it wasn't)

      Where some see opportunity, others see problems.

      What else is new?
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

        Except for that pesky example of EXACTLY THIS type of competition working out just fine... right here... just a few months ago.

        And the winners of that competition posting in THIS thread about it along with links to the whole saga (which was predictably equally sour, until it wasn't)
        Or some might say, a inconvenient truth.

        Best,
        Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        This forum has become a great crowd sourcing opportunity for product owners with no skin in the deal to procure and test copy at no financial risk.
        Newsflash: this forum has ALWAYS been a great crowd sourcing opportunity for product owners with no skin in the game.
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        • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
          Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

          My bad. I had no idea you worked on spec.
          I didn't enter the contest...

          But I'm pretty sure Sean's $10K from Dan spent just like yours and mine.
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          • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            I'm sure it did. The fact that someone crowd sources his copy for free and actually pays the winner is not at issue here.
            Ah, but it is. Risk vs Reward.

            The issue is that it cheapens the profession in general and takes advantage of the young 'uns.
            Sorry, but I'm just not convinced that some contest in the WF Copywriting section is soiling the sanctity of the profession or indenturing young serfs.

            I do see it giving a leg up to some unknowns who now have a nice springboard though.

            What happens when someone comes in here with a $500 contest?

            Would that be OK?

            How about $200?
            Strawman. How many $500 or $200 contests have there been?

            But I'll be your huckleberry...

            I predict a $500 copywriting contest would land here like a wet turd.

            No reward for the risk.

            $10K? Might be worth taking a shot at if you have the time.

            $500? Go crap in yer hat, sir.

            How about a chance at future employment?
            Funny enough, a similar argument broke out here when someone posted an in-house copywriting gig from a certain well-known S. Florida marketing guru and the application process involved jumping through some hoops.

            Best thing that ever happened to the guy that "won" the job. He's a friend, and I see his career skyrocketing every day.

            IMO, those who bled out over the "principle" of the matter were/are manufacturing a problem to be outraged by. A great writer was needed, a great writer was found, lots of money is being made. The rest was just huffing and puffing from the non-involved.

            Somehow, copywriting survived that brutal coupe attempt.

            Where are you going to draw the line?
            Wherever it needs to be drawn.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post


              Funny enough, a similar argument broke out here when someone posted an in-house copywriting gig from a certain well-known S. Florida marketing guru and the application process involved jumping through some hoops.

              Best thing that ever happened to the guy that "won" the job. He's a friend, and I see his career skyrocketing every day.
              I believe it was me who alerted this forum to the opportunity.

              Really cool news hearing your friend got the plum job Brian.

              Best,
              Ewen
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              • Profile picture of the author Shadowflux
                You know what? Instead of arguing about it I'm just going to give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen?

                Risk vs Reward right? I risk wasting a few hours for the chance to win $10,000, sounds fair to me.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post


            How about a chance at future employment?

            Where are you going to draw the line?
            Actually, Ryan Deiss DID come in here with a chance at future employment around 2 years ago.

            There is no group line to be drawn. We all draw our own lines, Ken. And if someone draws theirs in a different spot than you, why do you care?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    Funny thing is, there are a lot of people here who claim to be copywriters but probably have no idea what a copywriter does. You'll also see people whining about not having a portfolio.

    This type of thing provides two opportunities...

    A chance to win $10,000 as opposed to not having made a penny. And/or something for your swipe file, even if you lose.

    Unless, of course, it's those same wannabes who really have no idea how to write copy but pretend they're experts. And I'll bet those are the ones who really try to put this type of thing down in an effort to make themselves seem more than they are.

    With the obvious exceptions, of course. There are some genuine copywriters who just like to whine.

    If you don't like it, don't enter. Just don't try to take the opportunity away from others.

    I personally like a chance at a competition and was going to enter. But I got a job just yesterday, which puts me out of the running.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rezbi View Post

      Funny thing is, there are a lot of people here who claim to be copywriters but probably have no idea what a copywriter does. You'll also see people whining about not having a portfolio.
      And then you get the (mostly) wannabes who say "I can't show you my work"..."I've signed a NDA"..."My clients wouldn't like it"..."My prize-winning copy will be swiped" - all the rest of the BS.

      And don't get me started on those who post here every second day...pretending to be experts...billing themselves as "top copywriters"...savaging any newbie who dares to post. (And yes I've done my share of "savaging" but usually it's for good reason. I also help out a LOT of newbies - I just don't go shooting my mouth off about it.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Ceskavich
    Nobody's heard of testing against a control?

    Y'all dudes are pampered...
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  • Profile picture of the author philanderson70
    Hello copywriters... we're all set for the call today at 3:30pm eastern, so if you haven't contacted us yet and are interested, please do so by 1pm eastern today.

    We will be recording the call and make this available to those that can't make it today.

    We'll post the recording via email, again, to interested parties only who contact us before the end of the week (Sunday).

    Thanks again for your interest and we look forward to sharing the results soon!
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    Bump. In for updates.

    Any winners? Anybody's copy being tested? Anyone with a $10k check in their pocket yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author Daedalus15
      Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

      Bump. In for updates.

      Any winners? Anybody's copy being tested? Anyone with a $10k check in their pocket yet?
      I talked to Phil on the phone last week. I do not know how many people entered the contest, but he called to tell me that he is going to test two entries and mine is one of them.

      He said he needs a week to build simple videos around each submission, and he plans to begin testing on March 1st. The winner will be determined one week after testing begins, approximately March 8th. As long as the best video being tested beats the control video, that person will be awarded $10,000.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by Daedalus15 View Post

        I talked to Phil on the phone last week. I do not know how many people entered the contest, but he called to tell me that he is going to test two entries and mine is one of them.
        Congratulations and good luck.

        I was too busy to take part in this one (and I have my own weight loss product) but I'd love to see the results.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
        Originally Posted by Daedalus15 View Post

        I talked to Phil on the phone last week. I do not know how many people entered the contest, but he called to tell me that he is going to test two entries and mine is one of them.

        He said he needs a week to build simple videos around each submission, and he plans to begin testing on March 1st. The winner will be determined one week after testing begins, approximately March 8th. As long as the best video being tested beats the control video, that person will be awarded $10,000.
        Thanks for the update and good luck!

        It seems odd that the product owner would only test 2 submissions (I know a bunch of others entered) but still, nice to see progress with these kinds of contests. Please keep us updated, and again, I wish you the best of luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author Daedalus15
          Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

          Thanks for the update and good luck!

          It seems odd that the product owner would only test 2 submissions (I know a bunch of others entered) but still, nice to see progress with these kinds of contests. Please keep us updated, and again, I wish you the best of luck!
          Thank you. I will keep you updated. Phil said from the beginning that he was going to test 3 submissions. I am not sure why he only wanted to test two. This is potentially my first paying client so if I win I can obviously consider myself a 10k copywriter and make that my standard rate .
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      • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
        Originally Posted by Daedalus15 View Post

        I talked to Phil on the phone last week. I do not know how many people entered the contest, but he called to tell me that he is going to test two entries and mine is one of them.

        He said he needs a week to build simple videos around each submission, and he plans to begin testing on March 1st. The winner will be determined one week after testing begins, approximately March 8th. As long as the best video being tested beats the control video, that person will be awarded $10,000.
        Bump for an update. Was the control beat, and if so, who ended up winning this one?
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        • Profile picture of the author Daedalus15
          Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

          Bump for an update. Was the control beat, and if so, who ended up winning this one?
          It still hasn't been tested yet. I talked to Phil a couple of days ago and they are not happy with the audio in the first video they made with my script so they are redoing it. It should be ready to begin testing this week though. Who else has a script that is being tested?
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
            Originally Posted by Daedalus15 View Post

            It still hasn't been tested yet. I talked to Phil a couple of days ago and they are not happy with the audio in the first video they made with my script so they are redoing it. It should be ready to begin testing this week though. Who else has a script that is being tested?
            Good luck man
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            • Profile picture of the author Shazadi
              Hey Dae, you win this thing and make your big break yet?
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              • Profile picture of the author Daedalus15
                Originally Posted by LauraKryza View Post

                Hey Dae, you win this thing and make your big break yet?
                I wish. Testing got delayed again. It is now scheduled to begin testing after April 8th.
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      • Profile picture of the author davidkings
        Originally Posted by Daedalus15 View Post

        I talked to Phil on the phone last week. I do not know how many people entered the contest, but he called to tell me that he is going to test two entries and mine is one of them.

        He said he needs a week to build simple videos around each submission, and he plans to begin testing on March 1st. The winner will be determined one week after testing begins, approximately March 8th. As long as the best video being tested beats the control video, that person will be awarded $10,000.
        Thats a good view, new copywriters' can also enter.
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        • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
          Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

          Thats a good view, new copywriters' can also enter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
    Bump. Who won this contest? Did the winner get paid?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
      Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

      Thanks alot for bumping and I read every comment waiting to get to that exciting ending.
      So did I, but it looks like there isn't going to be one.

      BTW maybe you should start from the end of the thread next time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Bumpity BUMP!

    I just remembered this competition and went searching. So nobody won, that's it?

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Yes. Reassurance this all wasn't some big scam would be awesome.
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  • So who won this and how many copywriters entered the contest?
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    soon people... Relax...
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOMalley
    It probably was a waste of time as most people thought.
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    • Originally Posted by ThomasOMalley View Post

      It probably was a waste of time as most people thought.
      I read from a bunch of people it's worth the risk/reward. I didn't take part just was wondering if they just did this to get free copy and free work from people.
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